2Confuzed Posted October 12, 2004 Posted October 12, 2004 Escapology2, God, how I wish I was in your situation. I wish my MM was doing the same thing. I am happy for you, but please be cautious at the same time. The other posters are right when they say he could always end up back with her. Just be careful. I hope everything works out for you.
marli Posted October 15, 2004 Posted October 15, 2004 Allow me to give you the wife's perspective on your relationship dilemma. I was married for 11 years, when our only child was 8 months old and my husband left for a coworker (who is 15+ years younger than he). They began living together. Let me tell you, my ex husband has lost alot and knows it. Finances aside (which is a good chunk of his income); he has lost the respect of most of our friends and family and they want nothing to do with his new girlfriend. She could be the nicest person in the world, but I doubt it, as I question her moral and ethical values. The entire world he had is gone, he left his house for an apartment; he lost our circle of friends (of almost 20 years) for a circle of her friends. His parents still love me and their grandchild. I visit them quite often and even holidays and this makes his girlfriend furious, but I was apart of their family for 15 years and I am not going away. Now he realizes that he was just adjusting to life with a new baby and regrets his decision. One more thought for you to ponder..... if he is capable of walking away from his wife and children for you.... what makes you think that he is not capable of walking away from you for someone else when you no longer are fun and exciting????
Author escapology Posted October 17, 2004 Author Posted October 17, 2004 Marli, I completely respect your opinion and perspective. He just moved out and that was his decision and he may regret it later, that is his choice, but for now he is happy and so am I. I guess my only reply is that I don't live my life by the "what if's" - I may not be "fun and exciting" anymore and he may one day leave me. But I could not be fun and exciting to any man I met after a while, married or not. Isn't that the risk anyone takes when entering into a relationship? I know, if he has done it to someone else he will do it to me. Obviously that is a risk I am willing to take. Regarding my moral and ethical values that are "lacking" - Again you have a right to an opinion, but I would never judge another's morals or ethics by 2 posts on the internet.
marli Posted October 17, 2004 Posted October 17, 2004 If you re-read my post I was not questioning your values, I was stating that the OW in my husbands life has questionable moral and ethical values. They both do. My situation may be completely different than your own, or that of your boyfriend's. Most MM would portray their wife to be some horrible ogre who does not fulfill their needs and I just felt the need to point out that that is not always the case. Another reason for my post was simply to point out a few things that perhaps you may not have thought about (as my ex and his girlfriend did not). The ex-wife does not disappear, she is the mother of their children. How does his family and friends feel about her? She may continue to be included in events and that may be painful for you, especially if you are not included. How will you feel if they are at school events, little league games, etc. together and you are not there? Remember, the holidays are coming up too. The first year my ex left he came here X-mas morning to see the baby and the three of us opened gifts and had breakfast. I later heard thru his family members that his girlfriend was so furious about it she made Christmas dinner uncomfortable for everyone. Again, your situation may be different but in mine it has come full circle. As the ex wife, I am now the one who he has to sneak to talk to (even if it only about our child) and she is the one at home suspicious, questioning and checking cell phones. I have recently met a wonderful man and it has become so clear that my ex is a compulsive liar who builds his self esteem with outside things (& people) and not within himself. Again, I was not making judgments about you personally, but about a person who believes everything a MM says and does not take into account that there probably is woman and her children at home who love him and a have a life together which is not probably not as horrible as he leads the OW to believe. My best to you and your situation. In the end all that we are searching for is fulfilling and loving life.
izzybelle Posted October 18, 2004 Posted October 18, 2004 marli - you bring up some incredibly interesting points that i hadn't thought about before for this situation. unfortunately, i've been in both the OW situation and now dealing with the ex marrying his OW (ok so he denies that she was an OW but.... i'm not convinced, nor do i care). but marli, in many ways i find myself in the situation you describe. on one hand i find myself glad that he's found someone to make him happy (ok, so i didn't really care if he was happy, but i'll be nice) on the other hand, i'm the awful ex. my kids know their father's realtionship makes me uncomfortable (not because he's with someone else but because he acts like an a** when his fiance is around and ignores them) and as a result there have been problems regarding school events, sports, etc. because the kids feel torn. i just dropped them off at their dad's. he's been out of town for a few days and i think they were looking forward to seeing him. as we approached the house they saw "her" car in the driveway and their faces fell. he so wants her to be a part of his life but has forgotten that he had the kids first. yes, all can work out with it, but there's an adjustment period. i moved out of the house when we separated and i don't think it was more than a few days later that he introduced her into their lives. my MM's kids were older so it wouldn't have been as much of an issue, not that it wouldn't have been an issue at all but not as much as with younger kids. in my case, i don't think it was so much the divorce that has caused my kids problems but it's been the fact that their father went from one realtionship straight into another not paying attention to their needs of being with their dad and feeling grounded. a dad who has a good handle on his relationship with his kids can do this successfully and have a relationship but some, like mine, are incapable of focussing on more than one thing, or one person at a time and my kids suffered. so while i'm not going to say that the OW/MM situation doesn't work or is wrong or whatever, i'm not going to pass judgement, not my place and i've been one!!! but.... if the MM has young kids, even though he may end up with his OW, the OW needs to understand and encourage him to take the time he needs with his kids. escape, i'm not saying this applies directly to you, it's more in response to marli's post.
Author escapology Posted October 18, 2004 Author Posted October 18, 2004 Marli and Izzybelle- You both bring up excellent points. And the reason I began posting on this is to hear stories / experience from your point and others in my situation. I did not enter into this hastily. I have thought about your points over and over again. And no, this is not ideal or a situation I would have ever wanted to be in, but here I am. His child does come first, I would never be with someone who didn't put their kids first. Even though I entered into this, I know if it ended I would be ok. That does not diminish the feelings that I have at all, but I am a very independent person who can be on my own no problem. Maybe that is why I have never been jealous, or never pressured him to do anything. If this does work out between us, I know I will have to see his wife frequently. I am sure she does not care for me and won't, however out of respect for him and his family I can not see myself getting upset like you mentioned in the post about your situation. I find that very immature of her and she knew what she was entering into, as did I.
izzybelle Posted October 18, 2004 Posted October 18, 2004 it is good to hear you say that his child comes first. i've butted in to a few conversations on other forums from people complaining about their SO's exes and how the ex always is calling about stuff with the kids... never was quite sure what they expected to happen! i know so many times people always say that divorce is bad for the kids, IMHO it's not the divorce but quite frequently what happens after. my lawyer had even "warned" me about it. that at times when one of the parents finds someone else the kids get pushed aside. i think if that person's SO knows and respects that the kids need to come first then things can really work out. my exHs fiance is young and has no kids of her own and says that she respects the fact that i'm the kid's mom. i have no fear or concerns about that but what i think what she doesn't respect is that her fiance is the kid's dad. she wants kids of her own and my fear, which is shared by my ex's friends, is that my kids will then get pushed even further out of their father's life. it's never an easy situation and their are exWs and Hs out there who i'm sure will do anything in their power to ruin relationships and turn the kids against the other parent. my MMs W threatened just that. i'd never heard anything so resentful in my life. yes, what he did was wrong but why intentionally try to make him "pay" by turning the kids against him? and even every time he'd complain about their marriage and life together he always was really clear about the fact that he thought she was a really good mother. i finally told him, in one of our heated discussions, that i disagreed. because regardless of what he'd done to her, her actions of turning the kids against him would ultimately hurt her kids. and anyone who intentionally does something to hurt their kids, IMO is NOT a good mother. i do wish you luck and as long as you're going into all of this with and open heart and open mind and knowing that things wil be difficut you'll do fine. and if things are meant to work they will. he may be leaving parts of an "old" life behind, but obviously there are many parts that he will be bringing with him to your realtionship. just be patient with him and all the problems that will no doubt arise. i think we all, as OWs, sometimes have these visions of happily ever after, but going into it knowing that it will be a lot of work is at least at good start!
Charlane Posted October 18, 2004 Posted October 18, 2004 I have no problem with telling you that you are a poor excuse for a human being to break up someone's marriage because that is exactly what you are doing. He's worse than this for the same reason. With as many unmarried men in the world that are available, how is it that you feel low enough not to want to risk taking chances on someone without all of this larceny? I really believe that what goes around, comes around and you will be sleeping in the bed that you made with whatever form that takes. You would deserve it too.
Naive Posted October 18, 2004 Posted October 18, 2004 Originally posted by Charlane how is it that you feel low enough not to want to risk taking chances on someone without all of this larceny? How do you know she feels LOW ???
Charlane Posted October 18, 2004 Posted October 18, 2004 Because if she felt HIGH, she wouldn't be putting up with this garbage. It's time to get over WIMPY and get your female on. Quit putting up with halfway and get a REAL MAN. They are out there. And while you are at it, be a real WOMAN.
Naive Posted October 18, 2004 Posted October 18, 2004 Originally posted by Charlane Because if she felt HIGH, she wouldn't be putting up with this garbage. It's time to get over WIMPY and get your female on. Quit putting up with halfway and get a REAL MAN. They are out there. And while you are at it, be a real WOMAN. Okay count to ten and breathe
izzybelle Posted October 18, 2004 Posted October 18, 2004 charlane, while everyone is definitely entitled to their opinion and free to say it here... there may have been other ways you could have said that without sounding quite so much like you were attacking someone and passing judgement based on a few pghs of information. making someone feel like they are being attacked very rarely results in anything other than the other person getting defensive. making the same points, without clearly passing judgement is more likely to have more of an impact. i, personally, find it difficult under most circumstances, to say that i think someone deserves something "bad" to happen to them. even if i don't agree with what they're doing. it's not helpful and while your feelings and points may be valid as far as you're concerned, stating them here is probably not going to change the situation at hand.
Naive Posted October 18, 2004 Posted October 18, 2004 I agree izzybelle, everyone is entitled to their opinion; however, I don't think we are entitled to make people feel LOW.
izzybelle Posted October 18, 2004 Posted October 18, 2004 naive, no argument from me on that one. name calling is never a productive form of criticism, or anything for that matter.
Charlane Posted October 18, 2004 Posted October 18, 2004 It's too late...she's already feeling LOW long before I even showed up. What is up with the wimpy replies? What happened to REALITY and SELF-RESPECT? Did you ever once think that if she wasn't in this situation with this person by her own admission that she wouldn't even feel the need to look for validation of her feelings? Do you think he's posting somewhere? NOT. You know why? He's 'poling' 2 women along and loving it. HELLO? Come on. Get over the California thinking of tying a ribbon around it makes it pretty but it's still kaka. Why would anyone want to make kaka pretty?
Naive Posted October 18, 2004 Posted October 18, 2004 Did someone cheat on you? because you really seem angry my dear.
Charlane Posted October 18, 2004 Posted October 18, 2004 Didn't I say that I have been on both sides of the coin? Please don't try your wimpy psychoanalytical garbage on me. Physician heal thyself.
Author escapology Posted October 19, 2004 Author Posted October 19, 2004 Oh Please, let me chime in. It took me a while because I was too busy feeling LOW. Seriously, Charlane I think you must feel LOW about yourself to bash me - I won't stoop to that level and do that back to you. FYI - I did not break up the marriage, it was already dissolved, he has moved out. FYI - I do not need a man. I know there are single men out there and I wish the man I fell in love with was single when it started, but he wasn't. Yes, I easily could find a single man if I wanted. FYI - "what comes around goes around" I will say that back to you. I also appreciated the "poor excuse for a human being" comment.
Charlane Posted October 19, 2004 Posted October 19, 2004 Yes, you did break up the marriage. The rest was just geography. You are making cop out excuses for your behavior. When you did find out, although you probably already had a suspicion to begin with because women are pretty good at details like this, then you should have said something. This business about "I wish the man I fell in love with was single but he wasn't" is just total BS because you probably liked the sex and didn't want to go thru the drag of trying to find someone else just as experienced as he was. He fell into your lap and he was making such an effort when no one else was. You are right. What comes around goes around. If I am pissed about anything, it's this complete sense of apathy that is permeating my gender and I am sick of it. We are all wimping out.
Author escapology Posted October 20, 2004 Author Posted October 20, 2004 Have you read anything I have posted or are you just here to bash people without reading??? If you did read anything you would remember that I do own up to my role in this and I am not using "cop out excuses." How would you know if I was the one to break up the marriage or not? I knew he was married, and go ahead and bash me for that too, if you had read anything you would know that. As for the comments about me liking the sex because he is so experienced and it would be a drag to find someone else and he fell into my lap when no one else made an effort. Oh, that is right you were there and are there with us. Have we had sex? Did I ever say we did? According to you we have, you know what they say about people that assume things! I am not wimping out. Like I said before I welcome anyone's comments / experiences, but there is such a thing as tact.
Charlane Posted October 20, 2004 Posted October 20, 2004 "There is such a thing as tact". You have got to be kidding. I'm not in this situation, you are. Cancel the guy out, get a man with some assemblance of IQ and get a better life and STAY AWAY FROM MEN WHO ARE MARRIED OR HAVEN'T FINISHED THEIR BUSINESS WITH WHO THEY WERE WITH BEFORE YOU. It's so incredibly simple.
sami Posted October 20, 2004 Posted October 20, 2004 I totally agree with you that it so simple to move away and leave married people alone until they finish their old business. That is easy said hard done. Girls who are with MM usually suffer from unresolved childhood problems. They do not think right. Sometimes they do not think at all. They have their own world of unfulfilled dreams and illusions. That what makes them victims of their own conditions. They become blind and deaf except for their MM and what they would tell them. You will continue to see same story coming through this forum from many different people. It is a pattern of behavior that will never stop so long as there are men and women walking, talking and working close together. I call it the WTW " Walking, Talking, Working" syndrome.
blaelin Posted October 20, 2004 Posted October 20, 2004 I have some experience with this too, coming out of a miserable ten-year relationship with a man who *did* leave his wife. The fact is, when men or women have affairs it is because they have intimacy problems. If they didn't have intimacy problems they would end the very committed and serious state of marriage before starting a new relationship. When they have intimacy problems and have an affair with you, it can take years for the ugly stuff to come to the surface. Up until the very last moment, YOU are the wonderful thing keeping them from that horribly threatening intimacy. But eventually you become "the wife," just like the last wife, and they need something new and less personal. You won't find a man or woman playing around on their spouse who isn't very, very afraid to "be real" with a loved one. YMMV of course.
marli Posted October 22, 2004 Posted October 22, 2004 All I can say is WOW!!!! I posted here a few days ago and thought I would check in to see if anyone replied and this thing has taken on a life of it's own!! Escap ~ did you ever imagine you would receive this kind of response from your post????? Just a note of kudos to Sami and Blaelin~great words of wisdom my friends!! I spent much time in counseling trying to figure out what I did wrong (maybe if I had been a better wife, not spent so much time with the baby, etc.) and all sorts of other crazy ideas that came into my head that I was some sort of failure. Yes, marriage and communication are a two way street, but I came to realize that the biggest problem was within himself and nothing I could have or would have done would have ever changed that. And guess what...I truly believe in karma and what goes around comes around... so that communication problem and feeling like a failure that I had will some day be the problem and feeling of the OW. Perhaps when her time comes, she'll think of me. Probably not.
Charlane Posted October 22, 2004 Posted October 22, 2004 Actually that feeling like a failure business should be something that HE owns in the future. After all in this situation, he is the protagonist. I remember breaking up with a really nice guy because he was nice (really good looking too) and later on when my life went sour, I wanted to go back to him. Of course, someone else saw the great guy that he was and wanted him on a level LESS superficially than I did and I paid that price. In the above case, HE worked hard to destroy his home life and that might just spill into his professional life and someday he could be at the bottom of the pit with only one person to blame....himself. That's "what goes around comes around" in true essence. Charlane
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