Paternity Test Before Signing As the Father...?

[tbf]

If not trust your wife, then paternity test.

Why would anyone remain with someone they don't trust? And if they can't trust anyone, this means they don't trust their own judgement and need some psychiatric help with their trust issues.

[ASG]

A lot of cheaters do it with the intention of not getting caught. You make an aggressive assumption in thinking that if a SO does not show signs or arouse suspicion of cheating, then they must not be cheating.

 

Then if you do not trust your SO, you shouldn't be in the relationship.

YOU make an aggressive assumption in thinking that when a woman tells you she's expecting your baby, she's out to get your money. Newsflash, she's probably not!

 

And again, if it were me, you'd be shown the door.

[Woggle]

Why would anyone remain with someone they don't trust? And if they can't trust anyone, this means they don't trust their own judgement and need some psychiatric help with their trust issues.

 

 

There are many people who simply don't trust anybody of the opposite sex. I know some of both genders. I know a woman who checks her husband's cellphone everyday when he is in the shower and has installed a keylogger on his computer. She says that every man will cheat eventually unless they know they are being watched. She will never fully trust even though she has never caught anything. It is very unhealthy but more common than you think.

[sweetjasmine]

If she wanted an STD test before marriage sure I would get one and I did get tested after my first divorce with the amount of men she cheated with and I was clean.

 

I probably would not ask for one and I understand why a woman would resent it but I also understand why many men would want one. This kind of subject inspires a visceral knee jerk reaction on the part of most men because it pushes some strong buttons in a man.

 

No, Woggle, not before marriage. After. As in, if she literally came home today and asked you to go to the doctor to get a full STD panel because X% of husbands cheat on their wives and bring home a disease, how would you feel? How would it make you feel that all this time, she's been having sex with you but chose today to randomly say that she wants you to absolutely prove you're not carrying something you caught from some random hooker?

 

Some of you fellas seem to be arguing that a paternity test is ALWAYS a good idea because you never know. In which case, you'd all have no problem demanding a paternity test from your wife even if it took you 18 months to FINALLY get pregnant again after her second miscarriage which almost destroyed your marriage because of the stress and grief it caused. You'd demand a paternity test if she gave birth to a child with special needs. You'd demand a paternity test if she gave birth to one live twin and one stillborn. Because, hey, you never know.

[Woggle]

I said I don't think it is a good idea to demand a paternity in a good marriage but I understand why a man's mind goes there.

[tbf]

There are many people who simply don't trust anybody of the opposite sex. I know some of both genders. I know a woman who checks her husband's cellphone everyday when he is in the shower and has installed a keylogger on his computer. She says that every man will cheat eventually unless they know they are being watched. She will never fully trust even though she has never caught anything. It is very unhealthy but more common than you think.

Nowhere have I made reference to any genders in the post you've quoted. People are nutso to remain in relationships with people they don't trust. People who also can't trust anyone, once again, need psychiatric assistance.

[xxoo]

Trust issues to this level wear away at the relationship.

 

There is zero possibility that my children were fathered by anyone other than my husband. My trustworthiness is not an issue.

 

Still, if he had needed a paternity test to feel confident about the paternity of our children, it would have damaged our relationship terribly. I would have been crushed, and it would make me look at him (and us) differently.

 

Trust issues create relationship problems.

[tbf]

Trust issues to this level wear away at the relationship.

 

There is zero possibility that my children were fathered by anyone other than my husband. My trustworthiness is not an issue.

 

Still, if he had needed a paternity test to feel confident about the paternity of our children, it would have damaged our relationship terribly. I would have been crushed, and it would make me look at him (and us) differently.

 

Trust issues create relationship problems.

Absolutely. If you drill down into this, it means the questioning partner doesn't honestly understand who you are and what makes you tick.

 

Let's pretend that your actions and words have been exemplary throughout your relationship. If out of the blue, after years of marriage, a partner were to demand a polygraph test about whether or not you've been lying about cheating and other issues, would you consider that this person was off his/her rocker? I would.

[Taramere]

Another thread prompted me to ask this question...

 

Ladies, would you be offended if your man insisted upon a paternity test for your newborn child before he would sign the birth certificate accepting responsibility as father of that child?

 

Let me get this straight. You're asking if a woman who has just gone through the pain of childbirth and who would almost certainly be at one of the most emotionally charged moments of her life would be offended by the child's father asking to have a paternity test?

 

I would tell him to get the f*ck out, and if he didn't leave immediately I would ask the ward staff to remove him as I'm sure they would. If a man has that sort of trust issue then it's something he should raise in the early stages of pregnancy - not when a woman is nursing her newborn child.

 

I swear, sometimes the crap I read on here leaves me shaking my head in astonishment.

[Ursa]

While I understand why women would be offended if they have done nothing wrong I also can't blame men for wanting peace of mind. I just don't see what is so wrong with proving to your spouse in legal writing that you are trustworthy. Why do some get so offended at that?

 

To those who think that asking for the test is an accusation of mistrust, why object so strongly if you are so trustworthy...? Sounds like a chicken or the egg scenario...

 

Pregnancy and new-motherhood are extremely emotional and vulnerable times for women. Their hormones are all over the place, their bodies are different, they are often quite sick, their entire lives are in massive transition. Father's lives transition also of course, but not to the same extent in the early years, especially if breastfeeding is a factor. Childbirth is pretty uniformly exhausting and painful, and might involve recovering from surgery. In addition, women have often dreamed of having babies with the man they love for many years before it actually comes to fruition. Asking for a paternity test not only implies that the man doesn't trust the woman, it also still carries a strong stigma in many circles and would be considered humiliating by many women, as well as an insult to her honor.

 

I can understand why some men want them done, i.e. if it is a casual relationship, an open relationship, a new relationship where he does not know the woman well, or if their relationship has been prone to drama and/or he has reason to believe she is untrustworthy. Or in Keenly's case, where they had already broken up. I would advocate asking for a test, in those circumstances. But in a serious, even-keeled LTR or marriage? Personally, I find it difficult to understand why anyone would find it strange that this would be offensive and hurtful.

 

The concept of a relationship is based on the tripod of trust, respect and love. Communication is also important. Trip the tripod and you've got no foundation left.

 

Agree.

 

 

 

 

And, with men now more attuned to the household chores, things have also been changing in the custody department. It's now not that uncommon to have dads who are primary custodians or who share half the custody.

 

I could go into personal details but I dont' want to sway the thread back towards this topic too strongly...I can however attest to 50/50 custody for each parent being the default (sans extenuating circumstances) in at least two states that I have lived in in the US.

 

 

Anyway, I am happily married and trying to conceive another child with my husband, who is also my best friend. We have been living together, building a life together for years, we know each other well. He goes on business trips a few times a year, and I am trusting him not to cheat on me while he is in another city and I am at home knee-deep in kids. Because we have good communication and I have faith in the kind of person he is, I don't demand an STD panel from him or the odd polygraph just to make sure he's not fathering other kids in other states. When I have been pregnant, he hasn't demanded a paternity test. And yes, if he had done so and for no reason I would have felt wounded and it would have damaged the trust in our relationship.

[USMCHokie]

Perhaps it's the environment I work in and the people around me that creates my "reality." One of the guys I'm out here with now...on his last deployment, his wife got knocked up. Since I've been out here, I've heard multiple reports of married women getting knocked up while they were out here (with men not their spouse) and had to be sent home. And there are plenty more beyond that. It happens way too often for a man to be truly comfortable.

 

Sure, the LS population may be more righteous and honest than your average citizens, but there are plenty of bad people out there who will have no qualms with taking advantage of you whether you're a man or a woman. And after what I have seen and learned about from my personal experiences and those of my colleagues, as well as what I've read on the interwebz, it genuinely scares me.

[tbf]

Perhaps it's the environment I work in and the people around me that creates my "reality." One of the guys I'm out here with now...on his last deployment, his wife got knocked up. Since I've been out here, I've heard multiple reports of married women getting knocked up while they were out here (with men not their spouse) and had to be sent home. And there are plenty more beyond that. It happens way too often for a man to be truly comfortable.

To be fair, deployment much like any LDR can be fraught full of cheating whether it's the soldier or the one left behind.

 

Sure, the LS population may be more righteous and honest than your average citizens, but there are plenty of bad people out there who will have no qualms with taking advantage of you whether you're a man or a woman. And after what I have seen and learned about from my personal experiences and those of my colleagues, as well as what I've read on the interwebz, it genuinely scares me.

If you consider the limited percentage of the overall population (4%) of men who might be raising children under false pretenses, this means that 96% of the population are honest when it comes to paternity.

[hppr]

Perhaps it's the environment I work in and the people around me that creates my "reality." One of the guys I'm out here with now...on his last deployment, his wife got knocked up. Since I've been out here, I've heard multiple reports of married women getting knocked up while they were out here (with men not their spouse) and had to be sent home. And there are plenty more beyond that. It happens way too often for a man to be truly comfortable.

 

Sure, the LS population may be more righteous and honest than your average citizens, but there are plenty of bad people out there who will have no qualms with taking advantage of you whether you're a man or a woman. And after what I have seen and learned about from my personal experiences and those of my colleagues, as well as what I've read on the interwebz, it genuinely scares me.

 

Truth I saw that when I was in the military as well lots of returning personnel would come through our base and there would be pregnant wives waiting for men who had been deployed for a year. It doesn't take a math genius to figure that stuff out.

 

Another funny one was when they took blood samples from 40k Londoners and found that 30% of the children in the samples had blood types that didn't match their fathers, yet the fathers had no idea the child wasn't theirs (as in, not a foster parent/stepdad, child born within wedlock).

 

It's really a sad thing because relationships especially marriage are built solely on trust and something like that is utterly devastating to that trust.

[USMCHokie]

To be fair, deployment much like any LDR can be fraught full of cheating whether it's the soldier or the one left behind.

 

Indeed, and it is something I will likely deal with for a number of years to come.

 

If you consider the limited percentage of the overall population (4%) of men who might be raising children under false pretenses, this means that 96% of the population are honest when it comes to paternity.

 

You fail to account for the instances where the wife did cheat, but the husband lucked out and his swimmers beat the others guys' swimmers to the punch. But yes, I understand your point that more likely than not, a child conceived during a marriage is a result of that marriage. Though there's still that 4% "chance."

[hppr]

If you consider the limited percentage of the overall population (4%) of men who might be raising children under false pretenses, this means that 96% of the population are honest when it comes to paternity.

 

Statistically it's actually about 15%, I've known more than a few people who, when they grew up, discovered that they were fathered by someone other than their 'fathers'.

 

The question of having a paternity test comes down to your own relationship and the trust you have though. Most people I don't believe will spring for a paternity test.

 

I am not sure if I would insist on one or of I wouldn't, I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

[ASG]

Indeed, and it is something I will likely deal with for a number of years to come.

 

 

 

You fail to account for the instances where the wife did cheat, but the husband lucked out and his swimmers beat the others guys' swimmers to the punch. But yes, I understand your point that more likely than not, a child conceived during a marriage is a result of that marriage. Though there's still that 4% "chance."

 

And so, for those 4%, you're willing to risk your hard built relationship?! Really? If you have that strong a trust issue, you should seek help. Professional help.

[tbf]

You fail to account for the instances where the wife did cheat, but the husband lucked out and his swimmers beat the others guys' swimmers to the punch. But yes, I understand your point that more likely than not, a child conceived during a marriage is a result of that marriage. Though there's still that 4% "chance."

Is this thread about cheating or paternity?

 

There's a far greater risk of getting into a car accident the minute you get into a car, whether as driver or passenger, than raising a child that's not yours. Does this mean you won't enter a car or any form of public transport, just in case?

 

The vast majority of paternity cases are when the guy refuses to provide child support (a dine and dash guy) and it's actually his child, proven through the courts. If so, should men remain celibate throughout their lives just in case of unwanted pregnancy?

 

Life's a risk the minute you walk out the door. It's also a risk when you remain home.

 

But if you don't trust your partner, you waste time, energy and emotion mistrusting the person who you should be relying on to watch your back, so the two of you can platform to levels beyond what one individual is capable of, never mind all the positives of an emotionally healthy relationship.

 

If you really need a paternity test to set your mind at ease, make sure any potential partner understands this prior to having sex since every time you have sex, you risk an unwanted pregnancy. Of course you then risk the potential partner walking but hey, that's life.

[tbf]

That's an inaccurate figure.

 

The Straight Dope: Who's your Daddy? Is it true 10-15% of children in modern society were not sired by their putative fathers?

 

 

 

Do you understand what the above means? It means that as a generality, men raising children that aren't their own, equal around 4%. Of the high confidence group, non-paternity would be around 1.7%. Of the low confidence group, around 29.8%. This means that men remain with partners they don't trust. Totally dysfunctional. If you don't trust your partner, leave.

 

Statistically it's actually about 15%,

I've already addressed the false statistics in my above post. Click on the link I provided, then refer back to my post.

[Taramere]

Perhaps it's the environment I work in and the people around me that creates my "reality." One of the guys I'm out here with now...on his last deployment, his wife got knocked up. Since I've been out here, I've heard multiple reports of married women getting knocked up while they were out here (with men not their spouse) and had to be sent home. And there are plenty more beyond that. It happens way too often for a man to be truly comfortable.

 

Sure, the LS population may be more righteous and honest than your average citizens, but there are plenty of bad people out there who will have no qualms with taking advantage of you whether you're a man or a woman. And after what I have seen and learned about from my personal experiences and those of my colleagues, as well as what I've read on the interwebz, it genuinely scares me.

 

My issue about this would be the guy springing that insistence on me at an incredibly emotional point - ie straight after childbirth. To me, it wouldn't actually be the tendency towards mistrust/need for certainty. It would be the abject lack of sensitivity and empathy involved in picking that moment.

 

There are several months before childbirth during which the issue can be raised. I just can't fathom somebody feeling unable to raise the issue during those months, but feeling okay about springing it on the woman straight after childbirth.

 

Trust issues I can understand and deal with in an adult way, but that level of insensitivity is crass, unnecessary and unforgivable. Once I had calmed down, I would agree to the paternity test on the basis that the child and natural father have a right to contact - but under the circumstances the relationship would be well and truly over.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Taramere

[USMCHokie]

Is this thread about cheating or paternity?

 

Paternity. But false paternity inherently requires cheating; hence their relationship in the context of this thread.

 

There's a far greater risk of getting into a car accident the minute you get into a car, whether as driver or passenger, than raising a child that's not yours. Does this mean you won't enter a car or any form of public transport, just in case?

 

The vast majority of paternity cases are when the guy refuses to provide child support (a dine and dash guy) and it's actually his child, proven through the courts. If so, should men remain celibate throughout their lives just in case of unwanted pregnancy?

 

Life's a risk the minute you walk out the door. It's also a risk when you remain home.

 

But if you don't trust your partner, you waste time, energy and emotion mistrusting the person who you should be relying on to watch your back, so the two of you can platform to levels beyond what one individual is capable of, never mind all the positives of an emotionally healthy relationship.

 

If you really need a paternity test to set your mind at ease, make sure any potential partner understands this prior to having sex since every time you have sex, you risk an unwanted pregnancy. Of course you then risk the potential partner walking but hey, that's life.

 

Thank you for all of these fine recommendations, which I will certainly take into consideration the next time I leave my can.

[USMCHokie]

My issue about this would be the guy springing that insistence on me at an incredibly emotional point - ie straight after childbirth. To me, it wouldn't actually be the tendency towards mistrust/need for certainty. It would be the abject lack of sensitivity and empathy involved in picking that moment.

 

There are several months before childbirth during which the issue can be raised. I just can't fathom somebody feeling unable to raise the issue during those months, but feeling okay about springing it on the woman straight after childbirth.

 

Trust issues I can understand and deal with in an adult way, but that level of insensitivity is crass, unnecessary and unforgivable. Once I had calmed down, I would agree to the paternity test on the basis that the child and natural father have a right to contact - but under the circumstances the relationship would be well and truly over.

 

This issue was raised earlier in this thread, and I agreed that it'd be foolish to raise this concern for the first time immediately after childbirth. It can be a topic that could certainly be addressed early on in dating, much like you might ask about thoughts on prenups early on.

 

And I understand why everyone is bringing up these "trust issues." Now let me ask you this: let's take any of our lovely ladies in any of the various infidelity forums here on LS. Would you consider any of their respective male partners to have trust issues if they were to not trust these women, who are able to hide their affairs? I just hesitate to completely side with blind trust when the untrustworthy women can just as easily fall under the umbrella of the trustworthy.

[Taramere]

This issue was raised earlier in this thread, and I agreed that it'd be foolish to raise this concern for the first time immediately after childbirth. It can be a topic that could certainly be addressed early on in dating, much like you might ask about thoughts on prenups early on.

 

And I understand why everyone is bringing up these "trust issues." Now let me ask you this: let's take any of our lovely ladies in any of the various infidelity forums here on LS. Would you consider any of their respective male partners to have trust issues if they were to not trust these women, who are able to hide their affairs? I just hesitate to completely side with blind trust when the untrustworthy women can just as easily fall under the umbrella of the trustworthy.

 

I don't tend to read the infidelity forums, but if I did I'm doubtful that "lovely" is the word I'd use for those who are having and successfully hiding affairs.

 

As far as judging people for having trust issues goes, I might judge in certain situations (eg if it's me or a close friend they're not trusting) but I wouldn't judge that harshly. Trust v mistrust is the most basic human conflict and it comes up again and again. It's a difficult balance for people to manage.

 

However, my feeling is that somebody having trust issues doesn't entitle them to treat me in a callous and insensitive manner. It's incumbent on them to demonstrate some care in the manner in which they raise issues that involve a certain amount of mistrust. Being too matter-of-fact about it seems like a form of laziness. An avoidance of the reality that mistrust is potentially the most destructive force in relationships. It's just not realistic to hope or expect that people won't be offended by the blunt "I don't trust you - be an adult and accept that infidelity and mistrust are normal" approach.

 

If the person has behaved in a way that merits mistrust by others then I think they have to expect that saving relationships (where both want to try to save the relationship) will involve them having to earn back trust. If the person has no history - or no known history - of cheating on partners, then telling them "I don't trust you" is an act of bad faith. I think the mistrustful person would be wise to own their suspicions as stemming from their own issues/history, and to take pains to minimise the offence their mistrust causes to others.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Taramere

[serial muse]

So you are saying I was wrong to ask for one? Even though Its pretty obvious I was right, even though I had at the time no reason to suspect any foul play.

 

I don't see how your situation is comparable to a stable relationship. You had broken up before she even told you she was pregnant. This just isn't the kind of situation that people are getting offended about. Lots of women have said they'd understand if they were broken up and found out they were pregnant. Completely different situation if you're in a happy marriage.

 

Apples and oranges.

[serial muse]

If she wanted an STD test before marriage sure I would get one and I did get tested after my first divorce with the amount of men she cheated with and I was clean.

 

I probably would not ask for one and I understand why a woman would resent it but I also understand why many men would want one. This kind of subject inspires a visceral knee jerk reaction on the part of most men because it pushes some strong buttons in a man.

 

I think the issue here would be what if she asked for one post-marriage though. Like, if she asked you about it tonight, for her own peace of mind. Would you be offended?

 

To me, that's the parallel to asking your wife or partner in a stable relationship to do a paternity test. I don't think anyone's objecting to the idea that if you're just dating, or broken up, or otherwise the situation is murky, then of course it's reasonable to do a paternity test. The question is what's reasonable mid-stable relationship.

[Woggle]

I think the issue here would be what if she asked for one post-marriage though. Like, if she asked you about it tonight, for her own peace of mind. Would you be offended?

 

To me, that's the parallel to asking your wife or partner in a stable relationship to do a paternity test. I don't think anyone's objecting to the idea that if you're just dating, or broken up, or otherwise the situation is murky, then of course it's reasonable to do a paternity test. The question is what's reasonable mid-stable relationship.

 

Honestly I would have to think about that.

 

Like I said I don't blame women for being mad but for men it is a visceral reaction to this. You are talking one of our worst fears.