17 year old daughter....hardest years yet

[todreaminblue]

I need advice from two camps. Experienced parents of 17 year olds. And probably recent 17 year olds. Actually, I will take advice from anyone willing to give it .

 

I single parent my daughter. I adore her of course. I am blessed to be witness to all of the energy, passion, and fearlessness that IS 17. Its an amazing , breathing thing, and it gives me new life myself.

 

My kid is a good person. Being a single mom for most of her life, sometimes our relationship is too friendly, that's what happens.

 

She put gauges in here ears, small ones and I hated but accepted them because she said she would only go so big. We'll, a year later they are pretty big and she had successfully hidden them from me until the other day. I freaked right out.

 

I have made this my hill to die on apparently.

 

I have to finish later, I'm in tears.

 

 

I hate stretchers too, my daughter has one...its the smallest stretcher.......she got it with her lunch money i gave her.......which freaking sucks.........i am sorry it really upsets you.....the only thing you can do is voice your disagreement its there now and its there to stay..........explain to her why you hate it.......show her pictures of stretched out ears on google to let her know what its gonna look like when she gets bored of it......i have gone through the seventeen year old thing three times i have two more to go....and i am a single mum........i have a boy who got into massive trouble younger than that.....and there was nothign i could do but write letters of support....my two older girls...have had insecurity issues and abandonment issues so they were targets for dicks of guys.....enough said.....

 

 

 

raising teens....all i can say ....is ... take a deep breath..take another exhale..1....2.....3

 

 

you will survive.....and they will learn the hard way ....the only thing you can do is hold on to all the warmth you feel for them ...all the love....., and guide them the best you can..you have to pick your battles....let go of the small things ,to be ready for the big battles and pray .........deb

[TaraMaiden]

I can understand your anger.

This is long-term deception.

 

This crosses a line, in my opinion.

 

What you do, I don't know; I actually see very little you CAN do:

 

But I think, calmly, dispassionately and precisely, you tell her you feel very hurt and aggrieved.

 

You have brought her up and cared for her, nurtured her and tried your level best to do right by her.

Yet she still saw fit, in spite of everything you have tried to do, to actively work, over a period of time, to wilfully deceive you.

 

And that is deeply hurtful.

You feel as if essentially, she has completely disrespected every principle you have, by flouting your request, and being dishonest with you.

 

You give a damn about her earlobes. They're hers - she has to live with them, and what happens to them is her business in the long run.

 

What you MOST care about, is how she has deliberately planned, over time, to be dishonest, deceitful and deliberately hurtful.

 

And that is something (were I in your shoes) which may be forgiveable, but it's going to be difficult to forget.

 

"Thank you so much.

Now I know how high your regard is for me.

 

Not all that high at all.

If this is gratitude, then I'm happy to go without it."

[Mme. Chaucer]

I understand what you're going through completely. I think that about 17 through … um, it's not over yet (mine's almost 25) are incredibly difficult.

 

She is basically an adult. I know she's not, but there is probably quite a bit of her life that you're not aware of or a part of, sadly. It's normal.

 

My daughter happened to, and still does, really tell me a LOT of stuff that sometimes I wish I was not hearing. Because, especially when she was still a teen, it was about things that I would have given consequences for if I'd caught her - but since she told me, I felt stymied. I did not want her to shut me out.

 

BUT, I know that she actually KNEW this and was hedging her own bets!

 

My only advice - do NOT die on this hill. It's not a worthy one, trust me. It's incredibly hard to backtrack on hill standing, especially when many words have been spoken, hurt has been dealt out, and the kid is at dads to punish you.

 

I hate to say this, but if I were in your shoes, I would backtrack. And even, gracefully, eat some crow. I would say, "As you know, I'm horrified by those gauges and I reacted very emotionally when I saw them. But I also know it's your body, and I regret putting us both in a position where you felt the need to deceive me in order to decorate yourself the way you wished."

 

Or something like that.

 

Anecdote: I had a "secret" tattoo for many years, it's on my shoulder blade. When I was about 34 years old and a mom myself, I was wearing a tank top or something and my mother saw it for the first time. She FREAKED OUT. She screamed at me like a maniac and even clawed at it.

 

I think that maybe we feel, in a sense, like our children's bodies are a part of our own bodies. They are. In a way. But we have to give that up, as long as health and sanity are not being sacrificed. IMO.

[todreaminblue]

She is 17 right?

The piercers I have been to wouldn't work on anyone under 18 without parent consent.

 

 

 

wheres theres a will theres away......my daughter is fifteen they pierced her she is four foot 7 and looks like a child..they didnt care..... in fact...my daughter told me a trainee did it.......deb

[xxoo]

I think it is ok to backtrack when you react and later regret what you said or did.

I believe that models wisdom, rather than stubbornness. We're human, and far from infallible.

 

You might need to spell out the option of telling you (being honest), and doing it even though you said no. Was that really an option for her? Or would she have been punished? As a 17 year old, I didn't consider that an option. I just lied!

[Minnie09]

Omg you poor thing.....is this what I'll have to face in ten years? Ok I have a son but still.....I think he's not going to be any different....ugh

 

Unthankful brats they are. And seriously.....I can get so mad at things like that - you as a parent know what the right decision is in a certain situation.....because you're OLD(er)......yes, dear kids....age matters.....it counts.*

 

And then they end up regretting what you tried to talk them out of in the first place, and you can't say "told you" - because that's vindictive and mean and a smartass comment. Yeah whatever. I wish it wasn't so hard, and I wish kids could appreciate the facts that their parents are smart and experienced (ok, some.....not all) and learn from them rather than go through bad experiences and have to clean up messes that affect themselves and sometimes others. Just saying. Haven't been there yet myself, but I've seen friends and siblings struggle through bad teenage decisions. That ear thing is just an outside appearance thing, but honestly....I would be pissed off, too. What circles of friends is she attracting? What group of people does she want to be accepted by? That's what would worry me. And no....I don't think all pierced and tattooed people are drug addicts and irresponsible criminals.....but you get my point.

[amaysngrace]

And yes I took her at her word. Of course I did. That's the issue. The lie.

 

She was very clever about it then.

 

Well at least she took care of them so that they didn't get infected. Although I don't think they are all that big of a deal really.

 

My 14 year old daughter is one size away from them not being reversible. But she asked for my permission and I said okay as long as they don't get too big.

 

They're her ears even though she knows that I don't like them. But I am with the others, if this is your big complaint with her, the gauges, then you should count your blessings.

 

But the lying? You have every right to be pissed and hurt for that. I know I would be.

 

But yeah, she's at the age when she won't tell you everything she's doing. Especially if she knows you won't approve.

 

Girls.

[2sure]

I can understand your anger.

This is long-term deception.

 

This crosses a line, in my opinion.

 

What you do, I don't know; I actually see very little you CAN do:

 

But I think, calmly, dispassionately and precisely, you tell her you feel very hurt and aggrieved.

 

You have brought her up and cared for her, nurtured her and tried your level best to do right by her.

Yet she still saw fit, in spite of everything you have tried to do, to actively work, over a period of time, to wilfully deceive you.

 

And that is deeply hurtful.

You feel as if essentially, she has completely disrespected every principle you have, by flouting your request, and being dishonest with you.

 

You give a damn about her earlobes. They're hers - she has to live with them, and what happens to them is her business in the long run.

 

What you MOST care about, is how she has deliberately planned, over time, to be dishonest, deceitful and deliberately hurtful.

 

And that is something (were I in your shoes) which may be forgiveable, but it's going to be difficult to forget.

 

"Thank you so much.

Now I know how high your regard is for me.

 

Not all that high at all.

If this is gratitude, then I'm happy to go without it."

 

Exactly where Im at. She is still at her Dads tonight, although I see from her FB that after school she went to her boyfriends , which is fine. I freaking hate , on top of all this, that she has not called and knows I'm worried. Our pact is that she always calls no matter what. I'm pissed and Im hurt.

 

Of course I called her Dad to tell him, as he would not tell her I was on the phone , that this was the final week she could register for her college entrance exam and to remind her . His response? I dont have the money to give her and this isn't my job. She wants to stay here . And then he hung up.

 

And I'm not doing it for her. And also, he can go F himself.

[2sure]

I understand what you're going through completely. I think that about 17 through … um, it's not over yet (mine's almost 25) are incredibly difficult.

 

She is basically an adult. I know she's not, but there is probably quite a bit of her life that you're not aware of or a part of, sadly. It's normal.

 

My daughter happened to, and still does, really tell me a LOT of stuff that sometimes I wish I was not hearing. Because, especially when she was still a teen, it was about things that I would have given consequences for if I'd caught her - but since she told me, I felt stymied. I did not want her to shut me out.

 

BUT, I know that she actually KNEW this and was hedging her own bets!

 

My only advice - do NOT die on this hill. It's not a worthy one, trust me. It's incredibly hard to backtrack on hill standing, especially when many words have been spoken, hurt has been dealt out, and the kid is at dads to punish you.

 

I hate to say this, but if I were in your shoes, I would backtrack. And even, gracefully, eat some crow. I would say, "As you know, I'm horrified by those gauges and I reacted very emotionally when I saw them. But I also know it's your body, and I regret putting us both in a position where you felt the need to deceive me in order to decorate yourself the way you wished."

 

Or something like that.

 

Anecdote: I had a "secret" tattoo for many years, it's on my shoulder blade. When I was about 34 years old and a mom myself, I was wearing a tank top or something and my mother saw it for the first time. She FREAKED OUT. She screamed at me like a maniac and even clawed at it.

 

I think that maybe we feel, in a sense, like our children's bodies are a part of our own bodies. They are. In a way. But we have to give that up, as long as health and sanity are not being sacrificed. IMO.

 

Im not afraid to back track. Having been tattood at 14 and hiding it from mother until she died at 17, I do remember being 17. Thank you so much for this verbiage, they are words I've been looking for.

 

I don't want to ever break her, I don't want to control her, but I will guide her firmly. That's my job, even if it's hard sometimes.

 

I just, I don't like right now who she is showing me who she is. Playing this dad card, is just ...it's manipulative. I emailed her and told her to call me. She did, I told her I wanted her to come home and that at this point we were both making the ear issue more important than it was. She won't come home. She said she is staying the week. It was hard but I told her to never again make the mistake of forcing me to grovel with her dad to speak to her.

 

I honestly dont think the two of them will last the week. BUt she is safe enough, she has been the brains in that operation since she was 5.

 

I think I'm very upset, feeling frustrated with my own lack of control, and I have to Model the behavior I want to see, so I'm trying to stay calm.

 

I did also tell her that as much as I miss her terribly, there will be consequences and changes when she gets home and that I am going to want to see more mature behavior. ( such as registering and preparing for her college entrance exam without my supervision and nagging)

 

Also, he can go F himself. I can't stress that enough.

[Eve]

^

 

You did well.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[TaraMaiden]

Write her a letter.

A considered, level-headed, calm factual letter.

Tell her exactly how you feel, and make no single word ambiguous.

 

Express your thoughts candidly, sincerely, and from the heart.

And don't forget to let her know how much you love her.

 

Put it in her room.

 

Do not contact her again until she decides to come home.

Don't ring her, text her, reply to anything, initiate anything or discuss anything.

If she's chosen to be there, the consequences of her actions must be hers to deal with.

 

When she comes home, be cool, calm and collected, and arrange to go out shortly after she comes home.

Go anywhere you want, but leave her alone, to find the letter and read how your heart feels.

 

Let her make the next approach.

 

Control your dignity, integrity and respect her transition from child to young woman.

 

We all phukk up, at one point - big time.

 

(Remember this?)

 

Allow her to digest your words, and give her time to think.

 

Give her space, but do not shift your own boundaries.

[2sure]

Tara,

 

You amaze me and I can't thank you enough for taking the time and putting your thought in that post. I worked all day on the letter and I'm not done with it.

 

I do feel a little better today. Or as least stronger.

 

The NPR article is in my purse. And you're right, I dd remember the science but that particular article is concise and perfect.

 

My daughter , through my own doing, has become entitled and just can't take NO. Those are parts of life she has to get a handle on.

 

I've got to turn this car around.

[turnera]

Honestly, you two sound just like each other - stubborn, unwilling to bend, determined to force people to hear your way. How's that working for you?

 

Be the adult. Stop taking things a teenager does personally. Understand they WANT to be grown up but are scared as hell. Add in that they feel compelled by hormones to exert their independence, even to the point of looking stupid or drawing a stupid line in the sand.

 

Rise above. Be the adult. Show understand and compassion yet boundaries. There's no reason to 'warn' her that she'll face repercussions when she comes home. Just let her come home and then sit down and come up with a plan - together. If you can't do that, you'll be at loggerheads for the rest of your lives.

[TaraMaiden]

Honestly, you two sound just like each other - stubborn, unwilling to bend, determined to force people to hear your way. How's that working for you?

 

Be the adult. Stop taking things a teenager does personally. Understand they WANT to be grown up but are scared as hell. Add in that they feel compelled by hormones to exert their independence, even to the point of looking stupid or drawing a stupid line in the sand.

 

Rise above. Be the adult. Show understand and compassion yet boundaries. There's no reason to 'warn' her that she'll face repercussions when she comes home. Just let her come home and then sit down and come up with a plan - together. If you can't do that, you'll be at loggerheads for the rest of your lives.

 

If it was that simple, don't you think it would have been done, by now?

 

That's an ideal, but unfortunately, some circumstances don't lend themselves to the ideal...

There are other factors at play here, and if they won't 'play ball' then table-tennis on your own, is pretty pointless....

[turnera]

Huh? I'm just talking about not talking to her daughter in an angry or aggressive way. You DO have control over that.

[TaraMaiden]

Your previous post doesn't even contain the words 'talking' or 'aggressive'.

In fact, you don't even allude to how she should speak with her. Which incidentally has been covered.

 

Sorry if I misinterpreted your intentions, but based on your clarification, it's understandable....

[2sure]

So, she has been home since Tuesday . I wrote the letter and copied the NPR article. She gets it a bit.

 

I finally negotiated a compromise since we were both at an impasse and neither liked the others choice. She goes down a size and takes the money she was using for a trip this summer to put in the bank earmarked for corrective surgery should she want it in the next couple of years. Nobody is happy, but compromise is important to learn as well.

 

I can't impose my will. As to the deception, I'm not happy with that.

I'm trying to look at it as immature behavior and countering it by raising my expectations as far as her responsibilities...like a job, her scheduling, etc.

[TaraMaiden]

"Earmarked for corrective surgery"....

 

That's what's known as a Freudian Slip.....

 

I'm glad you are talking again.

Did she enrol in time, for her exam?

 

Hopefully, the compromise was a level-headed one.

What did she think of your letter/article?

 

Good for you....

 

I think you handled it in the best way you could possibly have done....

[2sure]

She did enroll on time! I'm thrilled. Also, it reinforces to me that she can do more for herself and probably wants to even though she would prefer to pick and choose the tasks.

 

I have to hand it to her in one way. After reading the letter and the article..

 

She said she would agree to compromise....this is funny:

 

Because although I don't believe it, it's possible I might be half nuts and not recognize it. You function pretty well.

 

I'll take it.

 

Ultimately , I want to do my job and teach her well and at he same time I don't want to spend my limited time with her on aesthetics.

[Got it]

2sure, I know things have been somewhat resolved but a good follow up conversation, one my parents would have done, is not discuss the ear gauges as they are not really the issue. They would stress their disappointment in me in not handling things maturely, but hiding and lying about something important to me and not being an adult and being upfront about it. That they would hope in the future that there will be times for tough conversations, where something will run opposite of what others want but are very important to me, that I need to stand up and discuss in a mature and articulate manner arguing my case.

 

If your daughter is anything like me the disappointed in me comments hit worse than any punishment I can get.

 

For you, I would start conceding some points to her that she is almost an adult and will be able to make decisions for her body that you won't be able to have say in. You hope that she will seek out your opinion to get your thoughts, but you will also trust that at the end you will respect her decision for the bright, intelligent, and well meaning person that she is. If she doens't have a track record of bonehead decisions, then keep that in mind.

 

My dad always said teenagers are the lovely little monsters that they are because it makes it so easy to kick them out at 18.

[TaraMaiden]

How's things now, 2sure....?

 

[Shepp]

I need advice from two camps. Experienced parents of 17 year olds. And probably recent 17 year olds. Actually, I will take advice from anyone willing to give it .

 

I single parent my daughter. I adore her of course. I am blessed to be witness to all of the energy, passion, and fearlessness that IS 17. Its an amazing , breathing thing, and it gives me new life myself.

 

My kid is a good person. Being a single mom for most of her life, sometimes our relationship is too friendly, that's what happens.

 

She put gauges in here ears, small ones and I hated but accepted them because she said she would only go so big. We'll, a year later they are pretty big and she had successfully hidden them from me until the other day. I freaked right out.

 

I have made this my hill to die on apparently.

 

I have to finish later, I'm in tears.

 

Everyone finds a way to push the boundaries at that age, like other people say it could be worse - it could be drugs or cutting or sleeping around. Its not that bad!

 

I went on a mountain biking trip right across the alps with some buddys, just camping out - my poor mum didn't want me too - she must of been worried out of her mind!!