Sexual chat

[spiderowl]

I seem to find this scenario happens so often and I don't know how much is 'normal' decent guy behaviour and how much is creepy.

 

I get chatting to someone online, via a dating site, and they seem decent guys. If we can't meet for a while, their chatting via text or whatever, inevitably seems to turn to innuendo and hints at what fun we could have together. If I don't stomp on this straight away, they get more specific.

 

I know a guy is going to wonder if a woman is at all interested in sex in general, if not necessarily with him, but it just seems a bit too soon to start introducing this. I don't know if I'm going to find him attractive in person and if it's going to lead that way in the long run, so why do guys do this?

 

It seems a guy will assume, from seeing your photo and talking to you, that they will find you sexually attractive and so they are assuming you will do too. This seems crazy to me and I feel they are trying to get positive feedback on this too soon when I don't have enough information. It gets irritating. I won't flirt with someone when I'm not sure about them. I don't want to encourage a guy falsely. How do I know whether I'm going to find him physically attractive in person or not? He might have irritating habits, he might smell, anything could put me off.

 

I suppose my question is, why do guys assume the woman will be attracted in the same way or are these constant 'prods' in text, conversations and so on, basically because they are not sure she is?

[miss_jaclynrae]

I don't see the correlation between assuming attraction and sexual texts.

 

 

 

 

Just because I flirt doesn't mean I want you to assume you are going to get laid.

[TaraMaiden]

I really think guys find it difficult to gauge boundaries.

I really do.

 

What we call flirting, they call a tentative overture.

And I hate to say it, but this is the second time in as many weeks that a lady trying OLD has had to deal with 'talk of a sexual nature' too much too soon....

 

I really hope I'm wrong when I say this, but men seem to think about how soon the sexual approach will be achievable if they start dating a lady, whereas a lady will consider it a lower priority, after amiability, a good sense of humour and a companionable nature.....

 

In other words, men want to think about the sex in the relationship, but ladies want to think about a relationship with sex as a component....

[spiderowl]

Thanks for replying. I see what you mean. I don't like to flirt with a guy by text because I feel that by doing so, I am leading him to think tha (a) I'm sexually attracted to him (when I don't know yet); and (b) that he will get laid. It seems dishonest to me. I could be flirting one day and then, the next day when I meet him feel yuk at what I've done. Guys want to flirt and have fun, even if it doesn't work out in the end, but I don't feel comfortable with it.

 

Just out of curiosity, why do you feel it's OK to flirt when you don't know if you'll be attracted to the guy in person? This is not a criticism, I'm just trying to get different perspectives from my own to understand.

[outsidethebox]

The problem is with the premise of "if we can't meet for a while".

 

Texting instead of meeting is in fact meeting. And if the reason you can't meet for awhile is because of the guy, he may very well only be interested in sex chatting.

 

If it's because of you, they are seeing what you'll say. Why do you think they wouldn't say that stuff in first meet, as far as that goes?

 

If that's a problem for someone, they should say they're not interested in meeting. Personally I wouldn't want to meet without some texting to get an indication of personality just like this example. Only I wouldn't be interested in other things.

[miss_jaclynrae]

Thanks for replying. I see what you mean. I don't like to flirt with a guy by text because I feel that by doing so, I am leading him to think tha (a) I'm sexually attracted to him (when I don't know yet); and (b) that he will get laid. It seems dishonest to me. I could be flirting one day and then, the next day when I meet him feel yuk at what I've done. Guys want to flirt and have fun, even if it doesn't work out in the end, but I don't feel comfortable with it.

 

Just out of curiosity, why do you feel it's OK to flirt when you don't know if you'll be attracted to the guy in person? This is not a criticism, I'm just trying to get different perspectives from my own to understand.

 

Because flirting is fun?

 

 

I feel like if I didn't flirt when talking to a guy online before meeting it would be BORRRRINGGGG.

[spiderowl]

I really think guys find it difficult to gauge boundaries.

I really do.

 

What we call flirting, they call a tentative overture.

And I hate to say it, but this is the second time in as many weeks that a lady trying OLD has had to deal with 'talk of a sexual nature' too much too soon....

 

I really hope I'm wrong when I say this, but men seem to think about how soon the sexual approach will be achievable if they start dating a lady, whereas a lady will consider it a lower priority, after amiability, a good sense of humour and a companionable nature.....

 

In other words, men want to think about the sex in the relationship, but ladies want to think about a relationship with sex as a component....

 

Thanks for your reply Tara. I agree with most of it. The only bit I would question is that women don't think so much about the sexual aspect. That aspect really matters to me too and I do think about it. As I'm seeking a guy with a nice personality who cares about me though, I see it as something that will develop later, when we know each other and are comfortable. If he presses too much on the issue beforehand, I start to feel we are not on the same page.

 

What bothers me particularly is the idea that he is assuming that I feel attracted to him in the same way. Why do guys assume this?

[miss_jaclynrae]

Thanks for your reply Tara. I agree with most of it. The only bit I would question is that women don't think so much about the sexual aspect. That aspect really matters to me too and I do think about it. As I'm seeking a guy with a nice personality who cares about me though, I see it as something that will develop later, when we know each other and are comfortable. If he presses too much on the issue beforehand, I start to feel we are not on the same page.

 

What bothers me particularly is the idea that he is assuming that I feel attracted to him in the same way. Why do guys assume this?

 

He isn't.

He wants to bone. The end.

It isn't that hard to understand, he thinks you are hot and is testing your boundaries. No decent man I have ever dated brought up sexuality before we even met.

[outsidethebox]

They don't think in terms of attraction, I'm pretty sure, although I haven't talked to guys about this.

[TaraMaiden]

because they 'think differently'.

Like I said, the reason they want to go OLD, is to meet someone they hope to have sex with, and eventually it might lead to a relationship.

Women go OLD because they want to form a meaningful relationship with obviously a good sex life included.

 

The priorities eventually probably balance out - but they think as they're looking for sex then love - you must be too.

 

That's a huge and gross generalisation, and put very briefly and bluntly - but I think that's it in a basic nutshell.

[spiderowl]

The problem is with the premise of "if we can't meet for a while".

 

Texting instead of meeting is in fact meeting. And if the reason you can't meet for awhile is because of the guy, he may very well only be interested in sex chatting.

 

If it's because of you, they are seeing what you'll say. Why do you think they wouldn't say that stuff in first meet, as far as that goes?

 

If that's a problem for someone, they should say they're not interested in meeting. Personally I wouldn't want to meet without some texting to get an indication of personality just like this example. Only I wouldn't be interested in other things.

 

I see what you mean. In this case there is a good reason why we can't meet for a while, but he's keen to. I'd like to meet but I don't want to make any assumptions about whether we'd be right for a sexual relationship, at least until after we've met.

 

Why should someone say that stuff in a first meet anyway? Shouldn't the emphasis be on getting to know the person not quiz them about their sexual interests?

[spiderowl]

He isn't.

He wants to bone. The end.

It isn't that hard to understand, he thinks you are hot and is testing your boundaries. No decent man I have ever dated brought up sexuality before we even met.

 

So are you saying he isn't a decent guy? In many respects he seems decent and he isn't explicit like some guys can be. I do think he's testing boundaries and got a bit fed up of it today and told him it wasn't appropriate and he said he respected that. Guys always seem to push it until you say no further, but if you haven't even met why do they think this is OK? Does it mean they don't have any serious intentions other than to get laid?

[spiderowl]

because they 'think differently'.

Like I said, the reason they want to go OLD, is to meet someone they hope to have sex with, and eventually it might lead to a relationship.

Women go OLD because they want to form a meaningful relationship with obviously a good sex life included.

 

The priorities eventually probably balance out - but they think as they're looking for sex then love - you must be too.

 

That's a huge and gross generalisation, and put very briefly and bluntly - but I think that's it in a basic nutshell.

 

That sounds pretty accurate to me. I really hate it. Because they are so focused on testing the sexual boundaries, rather than getting to know me as a person, it makes me feel used and I eventually drop them.

[miss_jaclynrae]

So are you saying he isn't a decent guy? In many respects he seems decent and he isn't explicit like some guys can be. I do think he's testing boundaries and got a bit fed up of it today and told him it wasn't appropriate and he said he respected that. Guys always seem to push it until you say no further, but if you haven't even met why do they think this is OK? Does it mean they don't have any serious intentions other than to get laid?

 

No, it just means they want to.

 

 

 

 

He may be decent, but he is still a GUY. Guys are more sexual than women [in general terms].

They do it because they are men, and they think about sex more than we do right away.

 

 

He may be decent, but I from personal experience have found that men that DO hint at sex before EVEN MEETING, tend to just be looking for it.

[spiderowl]

No, it just means they want to.

 

 

 

 

He may be decent, but he is still a GUY. Guys are more sexual than women [in general terms].

They do it because they are men, and they think about sex more than we do right away.

 

 

He may be decent, but I from personal experience have found that men that DO hint at sex before EVEN MEETING, tend to just be looking for it.

 

Interesting thoughts. I'm not sure guys are more sexual. I'm very keen on having a good sex life and really feel I don't want to wait myself, but it has got to be with the right person or I'll just feel used. Maybe guys don't care who the right person is.

 

In this case, it is a few weeks before we can meet, due to a commitment he has, but he did want to meet earlier and has been in touch a lot. I guess if you chat a long time before meeting, this kind of thing is more likely to crop up as waiting is frustrating in many respects, but in most cases I agree with you that a guy who is just looking for sex will get onto the topic very quickly and won't be diverted. I just drop those guys.

[TaraMaiden]

I see what you mean. In this case there is a good reason why we can't meet for a while, but he's keen to. I'd like to meet but I don't want to make any assumptions about whether we'd be right for a sexual relationship, at least until after we've met.

 

Why should someone say that stuff in a first meet anyway? Shouldn't the emphasis be on getting to know the person not quiz them about their sexual interests?

 

yes, definitely, in my opinion, of course it should.

 

But it's so hard to find love, when sex is so easy to get.

 

While it is a well-established fact that many women like to watch porn, there is little question that originally, porn was a device initially for men to use for sexual gratification.

Why?

because although dynamics have subtly changed - and are still changing - men have always emphasised the physical attraction and sexual satisfaction as being of primary importance when seeking a mate.

Women have hitherto been far more greatly influenced by romance; novels, stories, magazines, 'chick-flicks'.... all sugar-coated presentations of the 'happy-ever-after' ideal we strive for.

 

Novels like '50 shades of Grey' still cause a stir. So Porn for women is still something which strikes an awful lot of people as a novelty.

 

But men are sexual animals, women are sensual creatures.

There may be a fine line in between the two, but it's a question of primal priorities.

 

Even in other species, the requirements and criteria for mate selection differ according to gender...it is the Male of the species which attracts the female by good looks, colour, size, physique, dominance, sexual prowess and presence. Females are dowdier, and just need to be in season.

[outsidethebox]

yes, but they are dowdier to better be camoflauged from predators (for once we're not talking about men here).

 

Humans (most cultures) are exact opposite.

[ses]

I only talk dirty to the guys whom I'm specifically interested in getting to know on an intimate level. I have to feel comfortable enough, and know them well enough to discuss it. Furthermore we have to have many other normal, non-sexual conversations before proceeding to ANY talk of sex. I've encountered several guys who've tried to sext me from the get-go and it's incredibly off-putting and distasteful for me. I try not to rush the intimacy aspect.

 

I think he really is testing your boundaries and seeing how receptive you'll be to far more noticeable overtures in person. Let him know your comfort level, and tell him to chill if it's too much. Don't feel obligated to reciprocate. As curious as he is of your sexual interest he can wait. Yes, most guys do think of sex early on when meeting someone. Some guys are more obvious than others.

[spiderowl]

yes, definitely, in my opinion, of course it should.

 

While it is a well-established fact that many women like to watch porn, there is little question that originally, porn was a device initially for men to use for sexual gratification.

Why?

because although dynamics have subtly changed - and are still changing - men have always emphasised the physical attraction and sexual satisfaction as being of primary importance when seeking a mate.

Women have hitherto been far more greatly influenced by romance; novels, stories, magazines, 'chick-flicks'.... all sugar-coated presentations of the 'happy-ever-after' ideal we strive for.

 

Novels like '50 shades of Grey' still cause a stir. So Porn for women is still something which strikes an awful lot of people as a novelty.

 

But men are sexual animals, women are sensual creatures.

There may be a fine line in between the two, but it's a question of primal priorities.

 

I think you may well be right there, that men are attracted sexually and that that is their priority from the start, whether a relationship develops later or not. I don't know, what do men think about that? I have heard some say they treated a particular woman differently because they knew they were going to get serious with her.

 

It does explain why I feel I am always talking at cross-purposes with guys. They start the sexual hinting, flirting, etc. and I avoid or change the subject. They drop it for a while, then come back to it. It's like some sort of annoying game. I do clarify with them that I am interested in a sex life with the right guy, which I feel is all I need to say on the subject until we've had chance to meet and get to know each other.

 

Perhaps guys could shed some light on why they behave like this with a woman they like the looks and sound of?

[curlygirl40]

because they 'think differently'.

Like I said, the reason they want to go OLD, is to meet someone they hope to have sex with, and eventually it might lead to a relationship.

Women go OLD because they want to form a meaningful relationship with obviously a good sex life included.

 

The priorities eventually probably balance out - but they think as they're looking for sex then love - you must be too.

 

That's a huge and gross generalisation, and put very briefly and bluntly - but I think that's it in a basic nutshell.

 

This exactly. I think men are sometimes testing us to see if we will be 'fun' when the time comes, not realizing it could be putting us off altogether. It's a fine line we balance to not come off as an ice princess by setting those boundaries.

 

I always try to completely deflect that sort of talk, or make a joke out of it, prior to meeting. I learned that lesson the hard way on my first ever OLD.

[spiderowl]

I only talk dirty to the guys whom I'm specifically interested in getting to know on an intimate level. I have to feel comfortable enough, and know them well enough to discuss it. Furthermore we have to have many other normal, non-sexual conversations before proceeding to ANY talk of sex. I've encountered several guys who've tried to sext me from the get-go and it's incredibly off-putting and distasteful for me. I try not to rush the intimacy aspect.

 

I think he really is testing your boundaries and seeing how receptive you'll be to far more noticeable overtures in person. Let him know your comfort level, and tell him to chill if it's too much. Don't feel obligated to reciprocate. As curious as he is of your sexual interest he can wait. Yes, most guys do think of sex early on when meeting someone. Some guys are more obvious than others.

 

Thanks, it does feel like testing, even if it's done in a tentative and jokey way. What is the point for a guy of testing someone out when you haven't met them yet? What if you meet her and don't fancy her? Isn't it jumping the gun a bit?

[spiderowl]

This exactly. I think men are sometimes testing us to see if we will be 'fun' when the time comes, not realizing it could be putting us off altogether. It's a fine line we balance to not come off as an ice princess by setting those boundaries.

 

I always try to completely deflect that sort of talk, or make a joke out of it, prior to meeting. I learned that lesson the hard way on my first ever OLD.

 

Wow, I do feel that's what's happening. If I don't 'play' the game, the I'm obviously not going to be the fun girl he would like to meet. Yet, it is really off-putting when you haven't even met him. I don't want to come across as lacking in humour but nor do I want to sound like I'm ready and willing to drop my pants the moment he arrives.

 

What was the lesson you learned, by the way? It may be useful to me

[curlygirl40]

I've never tried to link another thread before but I'm going to try. I think this is the thread that was posted recently that Tara was referring to. You might get some insight from it:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/385057-normal-before-date#post4778744

[curlygirl40]

 

What was the lesson you learned, by the way? It may be useful to me

 

Well I've learned a lot of lessons in the past few years for sure, but I would say the most recent one that I have learned is that when someone says 'I'm not ready for a relationship' or shows you that they are emotionally unavailable, believe it. Right away.

 

And what the quote really means is that until I learned that lesson, life gave me the same situation over and over again until I learned it. Now I know better and can spot these guys quickly and won't waste my time on them. It took me a few times and some heartache but I got it now!!

 

A really good quote I heard recently was:

 

'No matter how good of a woman you are, you will never be good enough for a man who isn't ready'

 

I have now learned to walk away when a man isn't ready. And not feel bad about myself in the process like I wasn't good enough for him or anything like that.

 

Good luck!

[spiderowl]

I've never tried to link another thread before but I'm going to try. I think this is the thread that was posted recently that Tara was referring to. You might get some insight from it:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/385057-normal-before-date#post4778744

 

Thanks very much for the link. I did see that thread actually but felt she was asking a different question. I guess I don't think it's the way to behave but wonder why guys think it is and why they can't drop the subject until you've got to know each other.