Why do men treat women so badly?

[soccerrprp]

 

Women by and large prefer attractive men who are fun and unpredictable with some nice and a lot of edge bordering on jerkiness.

 

Dang, I'm sure glad I'm getting the attention that I have and continue to get w/o having to be an a-hole!

 

This being a jerk, etc. thing is certainly unhealthy...

[ThaWholigan]

The question I have for men like that is, why do you want to treat women badly? Why isn't it preferable to have a mutually loving relationship?

Because most guys like that get dumped for guys who treat women badly.

 

So the narrative goes anyway. I personally think that kind of view or thinking is highly one-dimensional. But people tend to box themselves like that and perpetuate the cycle. Both men and women - women think most guys are a-sholes, and men think women want men to be a-sholes.

[xxoo]

Men don't want to treat women badly, but they sure as hell don't want to be always single. They learn what works and until women stop responding to being treated badly, men will continue to do so. Being the nice guy or near nice guy doesn't work very often.

 

Ever hear a woman say "he's so nice and sweet and kind and considerate, but I'm just not feeling it and don't know why"?

 

So men treat women badly because of fear and insecurity.

 

I can't believe you don't know any attractive couples that treat each other lovingly. I know handfuls.

[soccerrprp]

General trends are not hard and fast rules. If you are attractive and athletic you're going to have an easier time than if you weren't.

 

 

Here's one that bucks the trend. A man I know who is a nice guy has a wife who is very attractive. Married for 20 years and have four kids. It happens. But it doesn't happen but I know more single nice guys than married nice guys. Way more.

 

JeffNE,

 

I hear you, man. But this application of rudeness and disrespect doesn't do anything for a LT healthy relationship. Are you saying that relatively unattractive guys succeed with this method? If not, then wouldn't it be better to be a decent guy not getting the girls then a jerk not getting the girls? If you're not getting the girls, then you're not getting the girls and being a dip-stick isn't helping you.

 

UNLESS you are convinced that regardless of what you look like, how much you make, that being a jerk ADDS to your chances of being picked up by women.

 

Eh, all this is making my stomach turn. It's simply not healthy for anyone.

[xxoo]

Men treat women badly because it works often enough.

 

I do know couples who treat each other lovingly including the one I posted about. I also know a boatload of men who are great guys who've thrown in the towel.

 

You would have to ask women why they are not attracted to those men. I'm certain it isn't because they lack a-holeness. It is probably because they lack attractive qualities. "Nice" alone is not arousing.

[Taramere]

Because most guys like that get dumped for guys who treat women badly.

 

So the narrative goes anyway. I personally think that kind of view or thinking is highly one-dimensional. But people tend to box themselves like that and perpetuate the cycle. Both men and women - women think most guys are a-sholes, and men think women want men to be a-sholes.

 

There are different types of a/hole. The mischievous "free child" who is fun to be around but not very reliable as a boyfriend (or indeed, girlfriend as women can be a/holes too). Then there's the sort of Harry Potter Dementor style ******* who has a wonderful talent for draining all happiness out of whatever environment they walk into.

 

That people in group 2 might hear themselves described as a/holes and believe that places them in group 1 is a cross we all have to bear.

[xxoo]

It's difficult to get direct answers from women on this question. They do lack the arousal qualities or don't show them off soon enough.

 

 

It's the unpredictability that turns women on. A-holes are often unpredictable.

 

"Not boring" is a good start. Do these men lack the personality to be interesting and unpredictable without being an a-hole?

[soccerrprp]

Can we please not use the word "unpredictable?"

 

It reminds me of someone who is erratic, psychotic, undisciplined, inconsistent and frankly, potentially dangerously unstable.

[ThaWholigan]

"Not boring" is a good start. Do these men lack the personality to be interesting and unpredictable without being an a-hole?

Yes - they also lack the mentality, because they think there is no in-between.

[sayitasitis]

Is it "right" or okay to define these men as those that still don't feel they want to settle down (because there's no lack of women that's willing to play with them) and somewhat lack the maturity to treat women right?

[xxoo]

I'd advise both men and women identify some couples who have the type of relationship you'd like to have, and model after their example. How did they attract their mate? How do they maintain the attraction?

 

Model after what you want. Be an active participant, rather than a passive victim.

[El Brujo]

For the same reason women treat men badly. It is not about gender. We are just living in a society where people don't give a damn about anybody but themselves. You also have a lot of hurt people out there with a get them before they get you mentality.

 

^^What Woggle said.^^

 

Women need to realize that hoping to meet a man who'll be their personal butler, is pretty much a pipe dream. And men need to understand that acting like a tough young thug who doesn't care about anyone but himself, is probably not going to earn him anything more meaningful than a string of ONSs.

 

But, some people are so selfish that the "throw 'em away like empty beer cans" lifestyle suits them just fine.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

didn't read the post but I can answer the question in your title. Men do that simply because we women let them! I wish we all had higher standards...then men wouldn't be able to get away with what they do now.

 

Mes, that's really only half the story. I agree that sometimes women let me get away with crappy behavior. When I was younger, less experience, more desiring of male validation, I experienced some real jerks. Women are also socialized to believe that their happiness comes from making others happy. And unfortunetly, alot of women will work hard to make their men happy while society kind lets guys get away with alot with the old "boys will be boys" thought mentality. So I do agree that women need to toughen up.

 

However, that doesn't explain or justify men treating someone else poorly. Clearly there are a lot of issues with men not really knowing women or understanding how or wanting to know how to treat women right.

 

Lets be honest, who is more likely to buy self improvement books and work on themselves or to "learn" about the other gender? Women are. Men are more likely to just seek out self-gratifying material and they don't spend as much time really ever learning about women as people.

 

So yes, women need to toughen up, but there is a dirth of men that hold tight onto the "old boys club" at the expensive of doing right by women. And even today, with the gains women have made, it's still a man's world. To be honest, I'd be fine with it being a man's world if so many men didn't abuse that and take advantage of it. I don't mind men wanting to be leaders. What I mind is how the power of it corrupts them. It's unfortunate because if more men learned this, I suspect they would be a lot happier and they would find that the owmen in their lives would respect them more. But you can't respect someone that cares more about their needs in a leadership position then they care about yours.

[dasein]

People who end up getting treated badly (and I have made all of these mistakes also):

 

1. Put too much stock in having a sexual or romantic relationship ongoing at every point in life. This clouds their judgment in weighing options. A snowball effect results where they move from what are essentially unwise rebounds, one to the next.

 

2. Weight talk over behavior unduly. Talk is cheap. Sustained, repeated behavior over time is what counts. Discount noise.

 

3. Overestimate their value in the dating/mating pool based on how much sexual interest they receive. Just because a broad variety of people want to have sex with you doesn't mean you are a finished person. People who don't continue to proactively improve themselves in every way throughout life are lowering their value among quality people, and so end up with turd time after time.

 

4. Behave impulsively in life. At every juncture, there are impulsive and measured options. Choosing the impulsive is a sure way to set oneself up for bad treatment.

[sayitasitis]

^^What Woggle said.^^

 

Women need to realize that hoping to meet a man who'll be their personal butler, is pretty much a pipe dream. And men need to understand that acting like a tough young thug who doesn't care about anyone but himself, is probably not going to earn him anything more meaningful than a string of ONSs.

 

But, some people are so selfish that the "throw 'em away like empty beer cans" lifestyle suits them just fine.

 

Some guys do think the bolded part will suffice. ONSs, to them, are actually quite a good deal.

[sayitasitis]

Mes, that's really only half the story. I agree that sometimes women let me get away with crappy behavior. When I was younger, less experience, more desiring of male validation, I experienced some real jerks. Women are also socialized to believe that their happiness comes from making others happy. And unfortunetly, alot of women will work hard to make their men happy while society kind lets guys get away with alot with the old "boys will be boys" thought mentality. So I do agree that women need to toughen up.

 

However, that doesn't explain or justify men treating someone else poorly. Clearly there are a lot of issues with men not really knowing women or understanding how or wanting to know how to treat women right.

 

Lets be honest, who is more likely to buy self improvement books and work on themselves or to "learn" about the other gender? Women are. Men are more likely to just seek out self-gratifying material and they don't spend as much time really ever learning about women as people.

 

So yes, women need to toughen up, but there is a dirth of men that hold tight onto the "old boys club" at the expensive of doing right by women. And even today, with the gains women have made, it's still a man's world. To be honest, I'd be fine with it being a man's world if so many men didn't abuse that and take advantage of it. I don't mind men wanting to be leaders. What I mind is how the power of it corrupts them. It's unfortunate because if more men learned this, I suspect they would be a lot happier and they would find that the owmen in their lives would respect them more. But you can't respect someone that cares more about their needs in a leadership position then they care about yours.

 

This thread isn't about me. But when I read the bolded part, I realize that I toughened myself out of the dating world.

[Mr_Flay]

4. Behave impulsively in life. At every juncture, there are impulsive and measured options. Choosing the impulsive is a sure way to set oneself up for bad treatment.

 

If you're measured all the time, you're overly cautious and lose that "edge" women are supposedly attracted to. I should know, as I never make any major decision before much thought. Heck, I don't even buy milk before comparing two different companies on the Internet!

[Disenchantedly Yours]

This thread isn't about me. But when I read the bolded part, I realize that I toughened myself out of the dating world.

 

Well, you can't be so tough that you alienate people and hold yourself back from meeting people. But I've been there too.

[sayitasitis]

Well, you can't be so tough that you alienate people and hold yourself back from meeting people. But I've been there too.

 

No. What I really mean was that guys don't really care for my assertiveness. They just go to the next girl willing to put up with their bad behavior.

[soccerrprp]

No. What I really mean was that guys don't really care for my assertiveness. They just go to the next girl willing to put up with their bad behavior.

 

I'm curious. I have no problems with assertive ladies, but are you a lady? That is, are you respectful and courteous or are you, for a lack of a better word, an in-your-face bit*h?

 

Be honest now.

[trevzilla]

why are women attracted to men who treat them badly? It's a vicious circle. I know lots of guys who say they used to be really nice to women and they got treated like dirt. As soon as they stopped giving a crap and being really flakey the women came out of the woodwork. Not saying all women go for those guys, but a lot do and it leaves a lot of normal, nice guys scratching their heads. I detest all the stupid games and wish it could just be as simple as you like each other and go from there, but then you even have women saying to men they better have game, to which I say why? And if you want a guy who's got game, why do you complain about all the players? I've agonized over something as simple as when do I call a woman who gives me her number and worry that it'll be too soon or too late. I'm not clingy at all, but would love it if I could cut through the BS and just call the same day and set up a date, but then she'll assume that I'm desperate and it will turn her off. I'm actually a really independent person who enjoys his personal space who happens to want a relationship as well. I'm not the jealous or possessive type at all, but snap judgments get made and you are blown out of the water before you even get a chance for them to get to know you.

[sayitasitis]

I'm curious. I have no problems with assertive ladies, but are you a lady? That is, are you respectful and courteous or are you, for a lack of a better word, an in-your-face bit*h?

 

Be honest now.

 

I wrote this in my other thread.

 

To qualify, I believe in talking things out though I don't always do it calmly the first time. But in such cases I usually go back to fix things because I don't believe in leaving things in any other way.

 

I like guys that have the balls to accept the talk outs. That it's not always about judging them but a way to make a relationship work, if that's the ultimate goal of both parties.

 

So I guess it takes a "strong" man to put up with my assertiveness and not run away when I need to tell them how I feel about the things going on. It could be my fault, his fault, both our fault or nobody's fault.

[soccerrprp]

To qualify, I believe in talking things out though I don't always do it calmly the first time. But in such cases I usually go back to fix things because I don't believe in leaving things in any other way.

.

 

Oh, sorry, I remember reading this.

 

I think as soon as this happens the first time, the guy is already looking for a way out. No fixing it...

 

I mean, you don't do this on a first date do you? You don't "assertively" lay down the law on a first date, do you?

 

But, I see what you are saying. If later in a relationship, I think you are only protecting yourself. I've dated women like this and believe me, it makes it a lot easier to hear what they are feeling. At least, that's what I prefer.

[sayitasitis]

Oh, sorry, I remember reading this.

 

I think as soon as this happens the first time, the guy is already looking for a way out. No fixing it...

 

I mean, you don't do this on a first date do you? You don't "assertively" lay down the law on a first date, do you?

 

But, I see what you are saying. If later in a relationship, I think you are only protecting yourself. I've dated women like this and believe me, it makes it a lot easier to hear what they are feeling. At least, that's what I prefer.

 

If I were your sister, what would you advise me to do (so that it doesn't happen even that first time)?

[Els]

I don't think any man I've been in a romantic R with have treated me 'badly', per se. I suppose it depends on how exactly you define 'bad' treatment. My exes definitely weren't the best bf material - one of them was immature, flighty, and careless, and the other turned out to be a video game addict. But I have not received any 'bad' treatment from them, I just left because they weren't providing the sort of romantic love and intimacy that I need from a relationship.

 

I do see some women whose bfs/husbands treat them 'badly' - verbally abusing them, sneaking around behind their backs, talking about wanting to replace them as soon as they get someone better, etc. But those don't seem to be the majority. In those cases, yes, I think the women probably chose badly, or caved to societal pressure to find a mate and decided to shack up with just anyone.