"Getting over it" - how long?

[MissBee]

They see each other once in a blue moon, usually her visiting them. They don't know the details.

 

 

You didn't reply to how she manages to get your house keys. When she sees them every now and again she steals their keys to your home? How does she even know which keys belong to your house? This is beyond alarming and should make it crystal clear that you are not dealing with someone who will graduate to normal behavior soon.

 

As I said earlier: none of what you've said about this woman paints a picture of someone who is capable of simply moving on...so thinking she will is illogical. You and your H, him especially, need to deal with the reality and not hope for a magical outcome contrary to the evidence at hand, which you've accumulated over several years.

[whichwayisup]

Gossip is the least of my worries. I'm concerned about the impact on the kids - they've had their own emotional problems in the past, and having their mother publicly vaunted as the local (criminal) loon won't do their recovery any help.

How old are the kids? in their late teens, early 20's?

 

If so, then they are young adults and need to know that their mother is unstable and needs mental help. A family meeting, a calm one might help too - So everybody gets to know what is going on, what happened. Hiding it all from them is not protecting them, it's better for them to know now than later. I mean what if she shows up with a gun? And then they find out all the crap that has been going on for years, they will be upset that they were kept in the dark.

 

Bolded part..You also don't know that. IF it happens, then you all deal with it as a family and talk, get help/counseling. That isn't a good enough reason to sit and do nothing, wait for something worse to happen.

 

The d-day - How was it handled? How long was the A before she found out? Or did he just tell her he didn't love her anymore and ended the marriage?

[whichwayisup]

She is in her mid-sixties, so they have to be 30'ish, wouldn't you say? Most people don't have their kids in their 40's.

 

I would think adult children in their 30's can handle a situation like this. In fact, at that age I'm sure they're quite aware of their mother's proclivities already. Keeping them in the dark is only going to alienate them from all of you.

 

Then they should know the truth. They are adults and should know their mom is not well and needs help. They could help her and be supportive too.

[MissBee]

How old are the kids? in their late teens, early 20's?

 

If so, then they are young adults and need to know that their mother is unstable and needs mental help. A family meeting, a calm one might help too - So everybody gets to know what is going on, what happened. Hiding it all from them is not protecting them, it's better for them to know now than later. I mean what if she shows up with a gun? And then they find out all the crap that has been going on for years, they will be upset that they were kept in the dark.

 

Bolded part..You also don't know that. IF it happens, then you all deal with it as a family and talk, get help/counseling. That isn't a good enough reason to sit and do nothing, wait for something worse to happen.

 

The d-day - How was it handled? How long was the A before she found out? Or did he just tell her he didn't love her anymore and ended the marriage?

 

I agree.

 

If they are 18 or older then they can handle the truth and deserve to know, so they won't hear it in the streets from the nosy villagers or be totally shocked if things escalate. As adults they can decide for themselves if they want to perhaps get help for their mom if she has no other family or they can connect with her side of the family, which are also their relatives, and do something about it.

 

Loon or not, she's their mom and I'm sure loves them and this indeed needs to be a family matter (spearheaded by their father, IMO, not the stepmom) and not a secret hidden from them and where the father is turning a blind eye while the stepmom is being made to handle it.

Edited March 19, 2013 by MissBee

[SidLyon]

How long is "long enough" to expect someone to get over an A? I've seen suggestions on the Infidelity forum that a BS takes 2-5 years to get over an A when the WS stays. But what if he leaves? How long is it reasonable to put up with bizarre behaviour for a fBS who still can't move on?

 

It has been longer than the 2-5 years, yet the drive-byes, online stalking etc continues, as does the petty theft etc when we go away. When she broke into our home months after he left and rifled through my underwear etc while we were away, we made allowances and didn't involve law enforcement, even though we had enough evidence to convict, because we thought, she'll eventually get over it and move on.

 

Only, she hasn't.

 

I'm not sure that it's going to be useful to you to "expect" her to get over the A within any set time-frame. They say it takes 2-5 years on average, and as a BW myself I know that's probably about right for me, but my M didn't end as a result of the A.

 

Recently a member of my own family poured out her bitterness (and it was) to me about her marriage that ended more than 30 years ago, so for some it will never end - this woman is now in her 80s!

 

There's not a lot you can do about on-line stalking (such as reading your social media and networking profiles/ pages). Furthermore, failing to get over it and move on, her bad-mouthing you, her feeling bad, drive-bys, talking, gossiping, turning adult children against you etc, are not "illegal" as such, so your best bet is to ignore, ignore, ignore.

 

You have said that her marriage broke up years ago and that her breaking into your house was "months" later so that makes the break-in "years ago" too, so it's probably time for you to move on from that given that nothing was done about it at the time (and it was years ago).

 

There may be something you can do about some of the current behaviours though.

 

Things such as as stalking (if there's a credible threat to you), breaking-in, defamation etc can be dealt with by the legal system. Perhaps start with exploring the possibility of a RO.

 

I don't recommend it, but if it makes you feel better then you could retaliate in kind, but that might just escalate the situation and then you could no longer take the "high road".

 

Perhaps giving a detailed history of the wrongdoings of the BW on an anonymous message board might in fact be your best option, as you will then get a lot of sympathy and acknowledgment of her bad behaviour.

[AnotherRound]

I find it really worrisome that there are people who think that certain behaviors are "normal" - phone harassment, stalking, etc. - bc someone is in pain. ???? These are criminal behaviors - and being in pain does not make them suddenly okay and not criminal.

 

I say this to anyone who is being harassed - no matter their label or what they've done - get legal involvement. The laws are there for this very reason - to keep people from committing crimes, or at least to consequence them when they do.

 

I wouldn't wait for her to get over it - she's responding in an unstable manner by being a mature adult and acting like a 15 year old (who these types of behaviors are "normal" for at their development level) - and committing crimes. Why is it sad if a grandmother sits in jail for her criminal acts? If she molested a child, would it be sad that she has to sit in jail just because she is old? ???

 

I don't get it - crimes are crimes. Break the laws and suffer the consequences. A lot of these people are very lucky that they are dealing with some of you on here who are far too nice to criminals for your own good, imo. Because if it were me, I wouldn't give them more than one chance to act appropriately... and I would press charges and file an RO and refuse to participate in their weirdness.

[MissBee]

I find it really worrisome that there are people who think that certain behaviors are "normal" - phone harassment, stalking, etc. - bc someone is in pain. ???? These are criminal behaviors - and being in pain does not make them suddenly okay and not criminal.

 

I say this to anyone who is being harassed - no matter their label or what they've done - get legal involvement. The laws are there for this very reason - to keep people from committing crimes, or at least to consequence them when they do.

 

I wouldn't wait for her to get over it - she's responding in an unstable manner by being a mature adult and acting like a 15 year old (who these types of behaviors are "normal" for at their development level) - and committing crimes. Why is it sad if a grandmother sits in jail for her criminal acts? If she molested a child, would it be sad that she has to sit in jail just because she is old? ???

 

I don't get it - crimes are crimes. Break the laws and suffer the consequences. A lot of these people are very lucky that they are dealing with some of you on here who are far too nice to criminals for your own good, imo. Because if it were me, I wouldn't give them more than one chance to act appropriately... and I would press charges and file an RO and refuse to participate in their weirdness.

 

Huh? I missed those posts. I went through all three pages to see who really said the situation was normal. I didn't find anything of the sort.

 

I read most posters being surprised that cocorico didn't get the police involved and I in particular am surprised that her husband seems oblivious to anything being wrong with all the exBS's bizarre behaviors.

 

Most have advised her to take her actions a step further than she has and have agreed that this is not okay.

[SidLyon]

I find it really worrisome that there are people who think that certain behaviors are "normal" - phone harassment, stalking, etc. - bc someone is in pain. ???? These are criminal behaviors - and being in pain does not make them suddenly okay and not criminal.

 

I say this to anyone who is being harassed - no matter their label or what they've done - get legal involvement. The laws are there for this very reason - to keep people from committing crimes, or at least to consequence them when they do.

 

I wouldn't wait for her to get over it - she's responding in an unstable manner by being a mature adult and acting like a 15 year old (who these types of behaviors are "normal" for at their development level) - and committing crimes. Why is it sad if a grandmother sits in jail for her criminal acts? If she molested a child, would it be sad that she has to sit in jail just because she is old? ???

 

I don't get it - crimes are crimes. Break the laws and suffer the consequences. A lot of these people are very lucky that they are dealing with some of you on here who are far too nice to criminals for your own good, imo. Because if it were me, I wouldn't give them more than one chance to act appropriately... and I would press charges and file an RO and refuse to participate in their weirdness.

 

I think there is a need to distinguish between behaviour that is definitely criminal (eg breaking and entering, assault etc) and behaviour that is legally actionable but not necessarily criminal (eg some forms of harassment such as repeated phone calls, some defamation, and some stalking depending on where you are) and behaviour that is neither of those even though it might be objectionable to the recipient. This might include various mental illnesses and conditions, malicious gossip, some stalking, and even nasty phone calls within limits.

 

The reason I say there is a need to distinguish is because the legal system in particular can only deal with matters that are legally actionable and/or criminal. Just as the mental health system can only deal with matters of metal health, not all bad behaviours.

 

You say you "don't get it" and that's probably because you're not legally qualified. It doesn't help for an unqualified person such as yourself to categorically state that certain behaviours are all "criminal" when some are not. You also need to be aware that not everyone on this board is in the USA, although the laws are similar in many common-law countries (eg the USA, UK, Australia and South Africa). However, wherever one is, they can seek legal advice but just be aware it's often expensive and the law often doesn't concern itself with general bad behaviour.

Edited March 19, 2013 by SidLyon

[georgia girl]

If the details of what you described happened as you've described them, then I would definitely seek legal advice or call the local police agency. However, if you just "strongly suspect," I would also be careful avoid making a public record as what you say to a legal authority has to be at all times the truth as you KNOW it to be and not as you SUSPECT it to be (and you would be amazed at how many times people get themselves in trouble for this.)

 

Having said the above, I would act in your shoes. Please know that hindsight can sometimes be 20/20, but foresight is what saves people from bad situations. If her behavior is escalating in any way - becoming more frequent, becoming more extreme - then it really is in your best interest to take appropriate intervention so that you stay safe and sound. Additionally, it could be the biggest favor you do to her. By prompting an intervention now, where the consequences to a petty act may be less severe, she at least has the opportunities to see that actions have consequences and it could prevent her from further acts.

 

I am not trying to sound any false alarms, here. You know your situation but if you have any doubts, I would discuss them very clearly with your partner and seek counsel from others who know the situation and can possibly also provide objective advice.

[Pierre]

I think it is odd that people in their 60s are behaving like hormone crazed 20 year olds over some old dude. This woman needs psych care.

[LFH]

I think it is odd that people in their 60s are behaving like hormone crazed 20 year olds over some old dude. This woman needs psych care.

 

Pierre I really mean no disrespect here, but do you really dislike people who are older than 30 as much as it seems? It's very consistent and I was just wondering if there was a reason or something I'm missing.

[cocorico]

How old are the kids? in their late teens, early 20's?

 

Yes

 

 

She is in her mid-sixties, so they have to be 30'ish, wouldn't you say? Most people don't have their kids in their 40's.

 

She's not "most people"...

 

The d-day - How was it handled? How long was the A before she found out? Or did he just tell her he didn't love her anymore and ended the marriage?

 

 

How D-day was handled, how your H treated her during the A, after the A is a contributing factor in this on some level, being pushed past her emotional limit. Not that it is an excuse for her behaviour - But this could be why he is protective and can't see things for what they are now, who she's turned into.

 

When your D-day occured, was it messy? How he did he (and you) handle her once she found out? Was there sympathy or more just get out, life goes on, I love someone else, get over it, let go and leave us alone? As I said, this isn't a justification to her behaviour now, but how it was handled from d-day on, IS a contributing factor as something in her broke and she's had a breakdown. And she needs mental help - I'm stressing this so you can talk to him and make him understand that ignoring the problem isn't helping anybody, it's making it worse.

 

She did not find out - he told her, and she did not believe him. He left, she kept asking him to return. It took a long time for her to accept that I existed, that he had moved on, and that he had no interest in going back. After he left, all communication was via email, most of it via lawyers to keep it civil.

[angie2443]

That's right. You HAD to get married so you could be together in your country. Did she seriously move to that country as well? Sounds... interesting.

 

Wow! What a thought. If I remember right, there was a lot of drama with this affair anyways. I think that has more to do with the people involved in the affair triangle then the typical dynamics that are present in the average affair. Can you put a restraining order on her in your country?

[cocorico]

Wow! What a thought. If I remember right, there was a lot of drama with this affair anyways. I think that has more to do with the people involved in the affair triangle then the typical dynamics that are present in the average affair. Can you put a restraining order on her in your country?

 

This was addressed earlier:

 

 

We live most of the year in his country, and part of the year in mine. She lives in his country, about a 45 minute drive from where we live.

[cocorico]

So they chose to have children in their mid-40's? Interesting. Maybe that's what made her nuts.

 

No, they did not. They had agreed not to have children and then she changed her mind in her 40s and wanted kids. He was in his 30s. He didn't. She got her way.

[cocorico]

I'm sorry, but that's a little bit much...are you seriously trying to say that he had zero control over whether or not they had kids? He was that passive? It's not easy to get pregnant in your 40's, an she did it more than once...I am guessing she had fertility treatments, etc. to help speed the process along. Did he not know about this, or did he just go along with her ,pretending to be happy about it when he wasn't?

 

It sounds like he was very passive then, and he still is now. If her behavior is upsetting or threatening to you, then that should be his number one concern...it can be handled in a way that's the least damaging to her, but your safety and security need to come first.

 

There are quite a few assumptions in this post, which I will try to correct without TMI.

 

No, there were no fertility treatments. She feel pregnant on BC but miscarried. She was gutted, he was relieved. She took herself off BC without telling him and informed him of the pregnancy once it was safely established. She is not the first woman to have done that to a man, and I very much doubt she'll be the last. Yes, he should have had the snip as a teen since he knew he did not want kids, before they got together, or certainly before they got M (at which point he needed her permission). Hindsight is 20/20.

[AnotherRound]

There are quite a few assumptions in this post, which I will try to correct without TMI.

 

No, there were no fertility treatments. She feel pregnant on BC but miscarried. She was gutted, he was relieved. She took herself off BC without telling him and informed him of the pregnancy once it was safely established. She is not the first woman to have done that to a man, and I very much doubt she'll be the last. Yes, he should have had the snip as a teen since he knew he did not want kids, before they got together, or certainly before they got M (at which point he needed her permission). Hindsight is 20/20.

 

Yep. ExMM's exW pulled the same thing. They agreed to remain childless - he had one already and she had none, and she agreed when they married, then changed her mind like 7 years into the marriage. She stopped taking BC, wanted a lot of sex - and got pregnant. She had aborted several times previously, but refused and carried the baby (and the next one) even though they, as a couple, had agreed to no children. At that point, he had no say - and he resented her for that forever after. Loves his kids, but I don't care how you look at it, that is a HUGE life changing decision that no woman should ever make for both people in the relationship - especially when they were agreed on no children.

[LFH]

She is not the first woman to have done that to a man, and I very much doubt she'll be the last.

 

She's certainly not the first. MM's found his wife poking holes in condoms after the dr told her having another baby would be dangerous, luckily she didn't get pregnant from that as it could have killed her.

[Silly_Girl]

She's certainly not the first. MM's found his wife poking holes in condoms after the dr told her having another baby would be dangerous, luckily she didn't get pregnant from that as it could have killed her.

 

That, to me, is utterly crazy. Honestly, I'm shocked (and that doesn't happen easily lol). Some relationships must be so very tiring and draining to participate in.

[LFH]

That, to me, is utterly crazy. Honestly, I'm shocked (and that doesn't happen easily lol). Some relationships must be so very tiring and draining to participate in.

 

I know.

[cocorico]

Once he knew she was capable of this, why did he then not get "the snip" to keep from having the other child? Passive is a good descriptor actually.

 

She refused permission, which was required back then. TBH though, at that point the line had already been crossed. When someone does not want kids, the biggie is going from no kids to any kids, not going from one to two.

[AnotherRound]

She refused permission, which was required back then. TBH though, at that point the line had already been crossed. When someone does not want kids, the biggie is going from no kids to any kids, not going from one to two.

 

I absolutely hate that rule that a spouse has to give "permission" to alter your own body. I had a lot of female issues and wanted to discuss with my OBGYN about having a hysterectomy - I was under age 30 and was married. Not only did they say that they would refuse to do bc of my age and the fact that I was childless still (only in life threatening situations, not just bc I was in constant pain, that wasn't enough) - but that my H had to agree bc he might want children. Um - my uterus is in my body - he can't put a baby there without me agreeing! We had both agreed that we wanted children prior to marriage - but even my exH was like, "wtf?" when they told him he had to agree. He was like, "if she is in pain, then that just becomes not an option for us to have children - fix it!".

 

I always remembered that bc I respected him for it - I didn't get the hysterectomy though, still have all my parts and still have pain. I wish a uterus on every male Dr. that denies me relief and doesn't believe that I would be able to live with a medical decision of not being able to have children...

[cocorico]

Isn't it more a matter of notification rather than permission? I mean, I can understand having to divulge the fact that you are removing your reproductive capabilities. But you can always get a divorce if you have a spouse that's so screwed up as to tell you what you can do with your own body. Any person who did that would have been yesterday's news in a heartbeat.

 

Again, passive behavior.

 

My own view is I would have dumped her the instant she broke he agreement and pulled the pregnancy on me, and would have signed away paternity and left her to deal with the consequences of her own unilateral choices, but he's not that kind of guy. He's always taken his responsibilities very seriously, at enormous personal cost.

 

You call it passive. Some people call it "doing what's right". Either way, I'm glad his IC helped him move out of that space and learn to consider his own rights, needs and happiness too.

[LFH]

 

I always remembered that bc I respected him for it - I didn't get the hysterectomy though, still have all my parts and still have pain. I wish a uterus on every male Dr. that denies me relief and doesn't believe that I would be able to live with a medical decision of not being able to have children...

 

I don't have a uterus. I haven't missed it once since the day they took it out.

[AnotherRound]

Isn't it more a matter of notification rather than permission? I mean, I can understand having to divulge the fact that you are removing your reproductive capabilities. But you can always get a divorce if you have a spouse that's so screwed up as to tell you what you can do with your own body. Any person who did that would have been yesterday's news in a heartbeat.

 

Again, passive behavior.

 

In my home state, and not that long ago - like 13 years ago (wow, maybe that long ago! lol) the husband HAD to give permission for a woman to have her tubes tied or to have a hysterectomy. A cousin of mine was done having children after 3, but her H refused to sign the paper work to allow her to have tubes tied - and she ended up getting pregnant again. Her H was raping her almost daily - but she wasn't telling anyone until much later (I was LIVID, but had no idea prior to that) and he liked keeping her pregnant as it kept her bound to the house while he just did whatever he wanted.

 

She should have been able to, imo, make that choice herself as it was her body needed to carry the babies. They had 3 - she miscarried the final one - and divorced him and had her tubes tied. But it wasn't just notification - it was actual permission.