Time/Quality Time/Spent Time

[waterwoman]

Do you know one of the nicest things H and I do together. Lie in bed back to back and read. To ourselves. Not to each other (although we have done that) not having sex (although we do that a lot as well), not talking, just reading silently. It's peaceful, companionable and relaxing.

 

Does that count as good quality time or does that count as poor quality time? Because it seems to me there is an "LS Bench Mark of Quality Relationship Time" that I am not aware of.....

[LFH]

It makes sense though...maybe not in terms of thinking of it like do they value quality time or not. But people with any relationship constrains may tend to be hyperaware of the constrains esp on time and thus try to maximize time more than those with no such constrains. LDRs are an example of a nonEMR that many times has similar qualities to As, because of the constrains, or people who are married to those in the military who often get deployed etc. I think in certain kinds of relationships like those, there may be more of an awareness for quality time, whereas in those where time is less constrained, it may not seem that way.

 

I grew up on an island for example, and when I moved to the States some people assumed I pretty much lived on the beach and went there everyday. I did not. But, I will say that the beach was readily available so I didn't act like a tourist desperate to soak up as much sun as I could, because I knew it was there and should I want to I can, anytime. I valued it but it wasn't with the same hyperconsciousness a tourist would. I think in relationships when you compare As to open ones, it may be that way. It is not as if tourists value beaches more or people in nonAs don't value quality time, but quality time becomes blurred with daily routine and one doesn't sit down all the time and specifically think "Am I having quality time"...you're just in their presence, in the same room, and that's good for you. Which is of course different from an active neglect.

 

Question: were your friends lamenting over their situations? I ask, because I'm trying to see if it was a case where they were sad about it and THEY felt it wasn't quality time and they're being neglected or was it fine with them?

 

I guess maybe I just view time differently and as more important than most people. I realize how quickly someone that you thought would always be can be gone and it makes me sad to see people neglect and ignore one another for tv, or out of carlessness or because of laziness. I think there is far too much of that in most relationships. It's not that different from active neglect. It's like when couples put a tv in their bedroom, and suddenly instead of making love, they're watching Leno every night and one falls asleep halfway through, then suddenly it's been weeks since they made love.

It actually came up because there were 2 old couples in a restaurant. One couple didn't even speak to one another, barely made eye contact. The other were like kids, he kept touching her hand and they were smiling into one anothers eyes.

Wouldn't you be sad if you realized that you and the person you were spending your life with barely spoke to each other for weeks on end and you hadn't noticed?

 

To me just being in the same room with someone isn't "enough" if that's all it ever is. Of course you need some of that, everyone needs to do their own thing, but if that's it? Why not just be alone?

[LFH]

I'd agree that everyone SHOULD value quality time.

 

Unfortunately, relationships don't come with owner's manuals. Most folks don't spend much thought on what it takes to maintain a good relationship...they simply think that if they love each other enough, that's all it takes (thanks, Hollywood).

 

The reality is that it DOES take that "quality time" and that "passive time" both in proper amounts and intensity to maintain a good relationship.

 

Unfortuntately, since there is no owner's manual...most people learn this the hard way.

That's very true. I think there would be less divorce, less drama and less heartache if more people realized that relationships are hard work and require cared.

A lot of it is common sense though. I think that more people tend to worry about what the person sitting at the desk next to them (not even romantically, just in general) thinks than their own partner and that's where a lot of issues come in.

 

I can be in a room with my wife for 30 minutes and not utter a single word. And yet it is quality, because i know she is there. I feel the presence of her and that is enormous.

 

Nevertheless, I have noted that those in EMRs cherish the time much more. And that is quite natural.

You're missing my point Pierre. I said that's normal and healthy. I said when that's ALL you have it's not good enough.

[MissBee]

I guess maybe I just view time differently and as more important than most people. I realize how quickly someone that you thought would always be can be gone and it makes me sad to see people neglect and ignore one another for tv, or out of carlessness or because of laziness. I think there is far too much of that in most relationships. It's not that different from active neglect. It's like when couples put a tv in their bedroom, and suddenly instead of making love, they're watching Leno every night and one falls asleep halfway through, then suddenly it's been weeks since they made love.

It actually came up because there were 2 old couples in a restaurant. One couple didn't even speak to one another, barely made eye contact. The other were like kids, he kept touching her hand and they were smiling into one anothers eyes.

Wouldn't you be sad if you realized that you and the person you were spending your life with barely spoke to each other for weeks on end and you hadn't noticed?

 

To me just being in the same room with someone isn't "enough" if that's all it ever is. Of course you need some of that, everyone needs to do their own thing, but if that's it? Why not just be alone?

 

I think quality time, like cheating, has to be defined by the couple.

 

I think maybe what defines it for people is how they feel about it. Do they feel loved/happy and connected or disconnected? I think that is what matters in your relationship. Do you feel loved and connected or do you feel disconnected and alone while you're in it?

 

It can be tricky to look at how other couple's spend their time and try to determine if it is quality or not. Each relationship has its "feel" and comfort level and all couples won't see the same activities/amounts of time as quality, as another will. So it really is, does the couple themselves feel disconnected or no? Heck...even dating different men, with some men I could do one activity and feel connected while doing it with another, it felt different, so in one relationship that was quality time and in another it isn't. Laying on the couch together napping with one ex was quality time, with another, he would be grading papers at his desk and I would be doing a paper on the couch, but I felt connected and loved, and would look over at him sometimes and smile, and I knew once we were done our work we'd be all on each other lol. That presence and being present (which is different) was what made the difference. People can be there but not present, even while "engaged", while you can appear disengaged but it is undeniable that you are present. You can have sex every night as a mundane routine or once a month and both feel connected and satisfied...so it comes down to again, does the couple feel content/connected/loved with their routine? Jay Leno nightly might really be what makes a couple feel connected, whereas for you, maybe it is making love nightly. It can't be for us to say, "sorry your relationship is being neglected because you watch Jay Leno in bed."

 

 

With my ex, going grocery shopping was one of our ultimate quality times! Why? He liked to cook and so do I and a big part of spending time together was us making each other food from our respective cultures and then eating and watching a movie or eating and talking. Shopping for the food was always great fun and I always felt connected while doing it...although it is a pretty routine activity in some ways. I do remember though we were in an aisle picking up pasta and an old guy came up and asked if we were newly weds ...I suppose we gave off that air of love and happiness even while picking up pasta.

 

Also people's moods fluctuate. Seeing a couple disconnected once doesn't mean they are always like that. I have been mad at my boyfriend at times and maybe if we went out or were out right after an argument, I wouldn't look too pleased with him and we'd seem disconnected. An onlooker might then assume we are NEVER in love or connected, when it's not true. I'm just upset now...but later when we make up, you might see us out again hand in hand.

Edited March 19, 2013 by MissBee

[waterwoman]

Oh and H and I are going to our youngest son's (the autistic dyspraxic and totally adorable and infuriating one) school consultation this evening. It will involved waiting in a queue and then sitting down in tiny chairs talking to a very nice middle-aged lady in sensible clothes and looking at pages of J's badly scrawled but hugely literate and imaginative stories and funny little detailed drawings. And dreadful maths! It won't be romantic. We won't be staring into each other's eyes or quoting Wordsworth or discussing our relationship but guess what? it is the kind of time that cements our relationship and makes memories.

 

Does that pass the test?

[waterwoman]

LOL! If I tried to 'talk about it' when H was watching something he'd get pretty pissed and vice versa. Afterwards yes, but not during.

[MissBee]

Oh and H and I are going to our youngest son's (the autistic dyspraxic and totally adorable and infuriating one) school consultation this evening. It will involved waiting in a queue and then sitting down in tiny chairs talking to a very nice middle-aged lady in sensible clothes and looking at pages of J's badly scrawled but hugely literate and imaginative stories and funny little detailed drawings. And dreadful maths! It won't be romantic. We won't be staring into each other's eyes or quoting Wordsworth or discussing our relationship but guess what? it is the kind of time that cements our relationship and makes memories.

 

Does that pass the test?

 

This is so adorable to me!

 

I think this is what I mean. It's a couple feeling present and connected while engaging in something meaningful to them. It may not be rose petals, PDA, and other tell-tale signs to onlookers, but if at the end of the day, they within themselves genuinely feel connected and cemented because of it...then it is quality.

 

I remember when my ex and I broke up, I missed the most simple and bizarre things that didn't seem like quality time. I missed the drive to work and school respectively while listening to the radio show and commenting and laughing about the callers who called in. I missed watching him chop up vegetables to make one of his delicious omelets, I missed laying in bed and listening to him brush his teeth and get ready to go to work knowing he would come over and kiss me before he left, I missed doing laundry and folding clothes together. All of which were really not that exciting if someone was a fly on the wall and maybe didn't come off as "quality" but in those simple moments, even when we weren't talking and certainly weren't gazing into each others eyes, he and I were present and I felt very happy and loved.

[Spotme]

Miss Bee, your post was so well-written and expressed a lot of how I feel about what quality time is and how it is so dependent on the two people in the relationship and how they feel about each other in general. I also think that someone on the outside looking in on my 22 year relationship might only see our mundane moments and think we must not be having quality time together, but if I went through my most recent weekend with my husband, daughter, and the friends we spent time with, I could point out all kinds of bonding that is not represented just by how many words we said or even the content of our conversations. Also, when you have been together as long as we have and spend as much time together as we do, the rhythm of your interactions is going to be very different from that of any couple with time constraints, regardless of the reason. It doesn't make it lesser in comparison.

 

All that being said, our quality time obviously took a serious nose dive during H's affair, when he was deliberately disconnecting from me and blaming me for made-up issues in order to rationalize his own behavior in getting intimate with someone else. During that time, I would sometimes sit across the dinner table from him and wonder how to truly break the silence between us and that is a heartbreaking situation to be in. Since the affair, he has commented on how much he had missed various aspects of how we were together (including the way we can just "be" together without having to be doing or saying anything). I think we now both consciously value every minute together, whether we are actively engaging in conversation or sex or running errands or watching tv or whether one of us is engaged with our daughter while the other does something else altogether.

[Spark1111]

I don't find it amazing, or even sad.

 

My primary relationship is the backbone of my life, it is the essential part that is strong and reliable. If it isn't strong and reliable it's no good to me. There are times when I have to take it a bit more for granted - that is the nature of a long-term relationship on which you have built an entire life. H's affair has taught us both a lesson about taking the relationship too much for granted but we still have 3 kids, jobs, animals, housework, and most significantly of all we have all those things around us while we are conducting that relationship, there is no let up, no time off. But that is the choice we made. And as long as we keep communicating and treasuring each other as much as we can, we'll have more time for us as life eases up.

 

water woman, I love this post! it rings so true!

 

This was the responsibilities we signed on for and they cannot be denied, not even to have a romantic relationship as much as we would crave that sort of time together.

 

We have learned to selfishly carve it out and keep it sacred for ourselves.

 

I could never compete with a single mom who had the house free every other weekend when her xH had custody. Hell, I rarely have two hours free to myself or to us.

 

And you know what, if I did, I too may be running around naked with high heels on being able to make HIM the sole object of my attention and affection.

 

one my longest lingering resentments from the affair is that we chose these roles and I was then, apparently resented for it, for not giving him enough attention.....

 

Who was giving ME any romantic attention? No one as I was the caregiver to all...and was NOT FULFILLED by 15 minutes in the bathroom while the water was running and kids knocking and dogs barking, KWIM?

[MissBee]

Miss Bee, your post was so well-written and expressed a lot of how I feel about what quality time is and how it is so dependent on the two people in the relationship and how they feel about each other in general. I also think that someone on the outside looking in on my 22 year relationship might only see our mundane moments and think we must not be having quality time together, but if I went through my most recent weekend with my husband, daughter, and the friends we spent time with, I could point out all kinds of bonding that is not represented just by how many words we said or even the content of our conversations. Also, when you have been together as long as we have and spend as much time together as we do, the rhythm of your interactions is going to be very different from that of any couple with time constraints, regardless of the reason. It doesn't make it lesser in comparison.

 

All that being said, our quality time obviously took a serious nose dive during H's affair, when he was deliberately disconnecting from me and blaming me for made-up issues in order to rationalize his own behavior in getting intimate with someone else. During that time, I would sometimes sit across the dinner table from him and wonder how to truly break the silence between us and that is a heartbreaking situation to be in. Since the affair, he has commented on how much he had missed various aspects of how we were together (including the way we can just "be" together without having to be doing or saying anything). I think we now both consciously value every minute together, whether we are actively engaging in conversation or sex or running errands or watching tv or whether one of us is engaged with our daughter while the other does something else altogether.

 

Thank you Spotme

 

The silence at dinner made me very sad as I can relate. Down to the end of my relationship with my ex, we went from comfortable silence, which is the silence of being present and being together, where no words need to be said, to the uncomfortable kind, of distance. The two feel very different but maybe to onlookers they sometimes look similar. Yes you can indeed look at a distant couple and tell, as LFH pointed out, although you can't always tell if it is just now they are distant or always, if you don't know them.

 

I think passive time, active time, comfortable silence, are all healthy. I think neglect and uncomfortable silences are different and each couple has its barometer for judging which is which. Certainly, 22 years of being together will produce a quality time that looks different from being married for 2 years or from being in an A for 2 years, and being in a long distance A etc. All will produce different dynamics. We all sometimes take things for granted when accustomed to it. It is not the same as neglect. I have 2 arms. This is normal to me. I value them but I seriously don't wake up everyday and think "Thank God for arms!" However, sadly, if I lost an arm, that's when I would be hyperaware and sad about when I did have 2 arms or be more conscious of the arm I do have. After an A I think a couple reconciling will be hyperconscious for better or worse, and those in As, who cannot be around their partner freely, or those in an LDR, because of circumstance, will simply tend to notice the person not being there so will be hyperconscious of when they are there and the notion of quality time might thus be more pronounced.

 

We will all die, that is certain. However, most of us don't know when, so while we know this, we don't often really live everyday like it is our last. It's not because we're bad people who take things for granted...but such is the nature of life and our minds. If however we did know when we would die, the day and hour, we would live life very differently and "quality time" may become a very very concrete thing.

[Spotme]

Miss Bee, I agree with all of this too, especially the first paragraph. And lol at your arm analogy!

[William]

Unless the posting about time/quality time/spent time is with a member's present or past affair partner, responses past this point are considered off-topic (they all are but I'm not going to go back and edit the thread) and will be processed as such. If married/LTR couples wish to discuss their time/quality time/spent time, feel free to do so in the Marriage and Life Partnerships forum. Threads are free. Thanks.

[LFH]

I find that for me I really do need a lot of quality time. I like my passive time as well, but for me I find that I really AM pretty high maitenance in that respect. I am like that in all my relationships though. I don't want to go to movies, I want to go DO something. I am just not a very passive person. We do spend time working on projects together but separately, or he'll work on his work stuff and I'll work on mine, or I'll read and he'll watch something on tv or vice versa, but I'm very in tune to being interactive.

I can only imagine for someone that isn't a lot like me in that respect I'd probably be EXHAUSTING.

 

I said I'm like this in all my relationships, and it really does spill over into all of them. I don't just go hang out and lay by the pool at my parents, I want to be playing water volleyball.

I don't want to watch movies with my girlfriends, let's get a bottle of wine and talk about stuff or go dancing.

 

I think some of it comes down to personality and what you find important. I don't like feeling disconnected from people and I think in this world of technology a lot of people are really too capable of zoning out all the people in their lives. I was guilty of it myself for a couple of years and I really rededicated myself to not doing that. I'm much happier for it.

[Decorative]

water woman, I love this post! it rings so true!

 

This was the responsibilities we signed on for and they cannot be denied, not even to have a romantic relationship as much as we would crave that sort of time together.

 

We have learned to selfishly carve it out and keep it sacred for ourselves.

 

I could never compete with a single mom who had the house free every other weekend when her xH had custody. Hell, I rarely have two hours free to myself or to us.

 

And you know what, if I did, I too may be running around naked with high heels on being able to make HIM the sole object of my attention and affection.

 

one my longest lingering resentments from the affair is that we chose these roles and I was then, apparently resented for it, for not giving him enough attention.....

 

Who was giving ME any romantic attention? No one as I was the caregiver to all...and was NOT FULFILLED by 15 minutes in the bathroom while the water was running and kids knocking and dogs barking, KWIM?

 

This is powerful. And true.

 

The thing I said once that sums up how I felt about that is when I told him that his affair felt like I was babysitting and housekeeping for him while he dated.

 

And you know what? That is how it felt. I could not "compete" with someone with no other obligations- not even really a job. I could not be his beck and call girl- though I did give a huge amount to him- because I had obligations to the life we had created together.

 

And that's the stuff that sometimes, when I think about it, still ruffles me.

 

 

*hopefully not off topic to moderation. I assume because the post I am replying to still stands, I can reply regarding time with affair partner .

Edited March 23, 2013 by Decorative

[cocorico]

My time with my own past affair partner (as per the thread topic) was all quality time, despite the very real constraints of our jobs, bills, kids, domestic minutiae and all those humdrum things that some M couples use as excuses to justify why they did not nurture their R. Even when we attended to chores, or drudge tasks, we'd *make* them quality time by using the opportunity for good communication, injecting fun, or just really enjoying being together. Even though I hate shopping, I still get a thrill when I turn a corner and head down an aisle and spy my lover bending down choosing the coffee.

 

We faced many challenges during the A, and many since, but we use the opportunities to bring us closer together rather than allowing them to distract us from our R, because our R matters to us, and matters far more than making sure the gas bill is paid on time or the garden is 100% weed-free or we get to see all the latest movies. It matters to us, so it doesn't get neglected. You don't neglect what *really* matters, so if something is neglected, it can't really matter that much, or not as much as what you're not neglecting.

[cocorico]

We were reflecting on this this morning while lying in bed together reading the Sunday paper. Specifically, comparing our "social practices" as a couple, both during the A and since, with our previous practices.

 

During his first M, he said, he'd be out of bed early. She'd still sleeping in her room, the kids would still be sleeping on theirs. He'd go downstairs and set out the table for breakfast, then go down and buy the papers, come back, make tea, and settle down with the papers. As people woke up they'd drift downstairs, pour themselves some tea, grab some breakfast, grab the bit of the paper they wanted to read and head off with it somewhere. Later he'd go round gathering all the bits of the paper together, pack the dirty dishes into the dishwasher and start cleaning up. The kids would be on their computers, gaming or FBing, and his xW would go out to church. He'd make a roast, carve it into portions. If the kids were home, he'd eat with them, and his xW would eat later when she returned from choir practice. He would meanwhile sort out chores indoors and out, and then cook supper, which everyone would eat in front of the screen of their choice. The only interaction would occur if he had to lift kids to sport, friends or movies.

 

With us, it's very different. We get the weekend papers delivered, so he'll go down, make a pot of tea and bring it up with the papers, which well read in bed in between other more adult pursuits, chatting about the headlines, speculating on whether the blind date worked out before reading the article, etc, then we'd get up and have a leisurely breakfast, planning the rest of the day. A walk? Chores? A movie? Live music? He'll bounce ideas off me for his next book, I'll show him the diagramme I designed as the theoretical framework for the article I'm working on, we'll dance around the kitchen while we wash the dishes, avoiding the wet patch where the snow blew in earlier, and then get ready to get doing whatever we planned to do, laughing and joking and being silly because we feel in that kind of mood.

 

It's probably less efficient the way we do things, but we enjoy it much more, and it's an investment in our R rather than competing with it.

[AnotherRound]

My time with my own past affair partner (as per the thread topic) was all quality time, despite the very real constraints of our jobs, bills, kids, domestic minutiae and all those humdrum things that some M couples use as excuses to justify why they did not nurture their R. Even when we attended to chores, or drudge tasks, we'd *make* them quality time by using the opportunity for good communication, injecting fun, or just really enjoying being together. Even though I hate shopping, I still get a thrill when I turn a corner and head down an aisle and spy my lover bending down choosing the coffee.

 

We faced many challenges during the A, and many since, but we use the opportunities to bring us closer together rather than allowing them to distract us from our R, because our R matters to us, and matters far more than making sure the gas bill is paid on time or the garden is 100% weed-free or we get to see all the latest movies. It matters to us, so it doesn't get neglected. You don't neglect what *really* matters, so if something is neglected, it can't really matter that much, or not as much as what you're not neglecting.

 

This x 1000!!!!!

 

So many excuses of why some couldn't/didn't/refused to nurture their relationships. I mean, some marriages work - so obviously those folks have figured out a way to nurture their primary relationship around kids, houses, jobs, yards, etc. on and on.

 

When I hear people say things like that, it just comes off as some kind of victim mentality as if they had no choice but to neglect their relationship. That's hard to understand considering that primary relationship is the only reason that you have the kids, the house, the yard, etc. If that's not the point, then you've lost the plot.

[AnotherRound]

We were reflecting on this this morning while lying in bed together reading the Sunday paper. Specifically, comparing our "social practices" as a couple, both during the A and since, with our previous practices.

 

During his first M, he said, he'd be out of bed early. She'd still sleeping in her room, the kids would still be sleeping on theirs. He'd go downstairs and set out the table for breakfast, then go down and buy the papers, come back, make tea, and settle down with the papers. As people woke up they'd drift downstairs, pour themselves some tea, grab some breakfast, grab the bit of the paper they wanted to read and head off with it somewhere. Later he'd go round gathering all the bits of the paper together, pack the dirty dishes into the dishwasher and start cleaning up. The kids would be on their computers, gaming or FBing, and his xW would go out to church. He'd make a roast, carve it into portions. If the kids were home, he'd eat with them, and his xW would eat later when she returned from choir practice. He would meanwhile sort out chores indoors and out, and then cook supper, which everyone would eat in front of the screen of their choice. The only interaction would occur if he had to lift kids to sport, friends or movies.

 

With us, it's very different. We get the weekend papers delivered, so he'll go down, make a pot of tea and bring it up with the papers, which well read in bed in between other more adult pursuits, chatting about the headlines, speculating on whether the blind date worked out before reading the article, etc, then we'd get up and have a leisurely breakfast, planning the rest of the day. A walk? Chores? A movie? Live music? He'll bounce ideas off me for his next book, I'll show him the diagramme I designed as the theoretical framework for the article I'm working on, we'll dance around the kitchen while we wash the dishes, avoiding the wet patch where the snow blew in earlier, and then get ready to get doing whatever we planned to do, laughing and joking and being silly because we feel in that kind of mood.

 

It's probably less efficient the way we do things, but we enjoy it much more, and it's an investment in our R rather than competing with it.

 

In the long run, things like dishes and such just don't matter. Nobody will remember you for that - it's so insignificant. Some people (too many, imo) get so focused on such silly things in life that they forget that our time here is limited. If you have to choose between cleaning the house or playing with your child - and you choose to clean the house -well, your priorities are out of whack, seriously.

 

It's no different with an intimate relationship. If everything mundane in your world is so much more important than that relationship - you probably shouldn't be in that relationship. It's just an excuse I think for people to tune out, go on autopilot so that they don't have to do the work of keeping a relationship alive. Then, when they realize it died while they were tending to such silly things that in the big picture just don't matter - they act all ticked off like they had no choice in the matter bc the things they were doing were so important to the world.

 

Let's face it - most people aren't doing things that affect much outside of their little bubble of life. If the dishes stay in the sink, if the floors don't get swept, if you don't finish the laundry - the world will not end. But, neglect that relationship you claim is ever so important to you when divorce comes up? And yeah - your world is going to change - and you'll never be on your deathbed saying that you wished you had spent more time cleaning the house, or finding excuses to not nurture your relationship - and you might be there all alone simply bc you couldn't be bothered to prioritize, or weren't clever enough to figure out how to separate out the important things vs. the silly things.