Estate Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 I am very sorry....I screwed up...My post limited this to ONLY women...And perhaps I did that because I don't have to listen to snarky comments about video gaming from men AS OFTEN, but admittedly, that definitely happens too. So enough bickering, let's reestablish the discussion and FOCUS together...let's put away our swords everyone.... Why....IN GENERAL...to men and women alike (regardless of what % is men and what % is women)....Is there a stigma that ANY AMOUNT of video gaming is immature, stupid or childish? WE ALL know these stereotypes exist toward gamers...So my question is...WHY? Texting on your phone constantly, FACEBOOKING constantly, watching reality TV, going out to bars spending money you don't have, is all giggled about and considered "A guilty pleasure and cool" Almost like a casualty of being awesome - when ALL of those activities are the same or WORSE than gaming. So, real simple, why? Let's stop attacking eachother...I admit I was wrong to both a.) single out women and b.) get super defensive. That's my bad and I apologize - let's put that to rest right here and right now....so folks... WHY the negative stigma to video games from THE WORLD in general and not toward other stuff that is practically IDENTICAL (tv, books, radio, facebook, cell phones, ipads, etc.) It's simple. They are very unsocial and unproductive ways for an adult male to spend his time. ANYTHING in moderation is FINE! So please don't say I'm attacking every gamer. There is NO particular agenda against gamers over any other hobby or social group. None at all... you're making it sound like there is. If you are asking why it is unattractive then it's just a clash of pesonalities. I know people who want to go to a bar on a Friday night and I know people who want to go home gaming on a Friday night... each to his own, that's fine. But it makes me mad when guys come on here who are in the later gamers group, and complain that they an't get girls in the first group! Why not date gamer girls? If you want to date "club girls" (or whatever other type of girl) then you have a much better chance if you have that in common. Sure, going to bars every night sounds like a waste of money, but it's considered to be social. And those who do very well in that environment are people who are very social and comfortable around people and new situations. This is an admirable trait in anyone. Someone who games for 48 hours at the weekend (if it's 1 or 2 then fine, this isn't aimed at you) generally isn't very social, and more often doesn't even realise but they are not used to handling themselves when put in highly IN PERSON social situations... I grew up with this, I went to college with these folks and now it's my profession but I don't necessarily follow the norm for my profession. But that is the trend I see... My work environment is VERY unsocial despite the type of business it is, I usually socialize with friends who work nearby in similar companies because people are not rushing home on Friday evening to play HALO. And about it being childish... look, we all know games are now aimed at Adults because those who started playing as kids are now adults and there's a huge market there... there's no denying that. But they are still "games" which were originally to entertain kids and the majority of people just grow out of it. Mainly because as we grow up we play less games in general (even real sports) because we have so much more to do, so if someone still can spend a 48 hour weekend playing HALO, the question has to be asked what else that person has going on in their life. That's why it's considered childish. I'll draw a comparison.... I used to LOVE WWF when I was a kid, then as I got older, so did their product to keep the audience... I don't have time to watch every show now, I just don't... but I still have an interest since I was fond as a kid but it's not something I boast to everyone about, it's not real life, it was designed for kids originally... so if I have time, I might watch an hour of it sometime in the peace of my own home and don't bother to write big rants about how wrong the world is for not following every storyline like I did as a kid... people grow up, get other priorities and just DON'T CARE. Now, I thought that was fairly reasonable... will await the backfire. 1
Estate Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 From what I have seen, it's the quote "gamers" that are causing the stigma. Not everyone that plays video games is a gamer, atleast not to my age/social/cultural demographic. I'm a software developer, and I would say 80% of my department is gamers. They are all young guys say 22-27. From what I have heard they seem to play 4 to 12 hours a day depending, what day of the week it is, and if a new game has come out. I've heard some of them shame new guys to the department who claim to be gammers , but aren't as "hardcore" as they are. I've seen guys miss work, because they stayed up to late playing. I've seen guys get all, pissy, because the "hot" girl over in accounting doesn't want anything to do with them, the engagement ring on her finger seems to get ignored. In short the stigma exists because just like with every other group, the bad apples screw over the normal people who associate with that group. ^^^ This.... This is what I should have wrote before now. I'm the exact same situation.
Estate Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 Oh, and one last example.... And something which is VERY common in the workplace. "Injokes" and "Nerd jokes".... Everybody doesn't get them... "Pwn lol"... I mean, who cares. My workplace has a "Business Casual" dress code, not suit and tie but shirt and pants at the very least are expected... While everyone in every department conforms to this to present a good image of the company and does it very welll... Much of the IT department insists on "not conforming"... Every day is a new "Pacman shirt" or some "gamer joke you wouldn't get" printed across it. They think it's hilarious. And anyone who doesn't get the joke is an idiot. But this is a professional environment and they come to work looking tired and sloppy and badly turned out and just stand out a MILE from people of any other department. Thats just an example... but it's things like that that make this group stand out in a negative way. Again... I'm an IT guy... I "get" 99% of the in jokes, but it's just not the right setting for it but they often miss that.
Shardish Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 I enjoy my alone time and my alone time often sees me playing video games, reading books or watching films. I can understand why women get annoyed with their husbands and boyfriends who play video games in front of them and effectively force them into tears of boredom. And I mean not to sound funny, but if you have a girlfriend why on Earth would you want to sit indoors playing video games? I'd much rather go out to dinner, or do some homebaking, or go out and see a film or go away for the weekend somewhere new, somewhere different. That said I just wonder how important alone time is in a relationship? My best friend lives with his girlfriend and he loves it when she goes off to work, so he can have some alone time just to have a few beers and play his Xbox 360. 1
Woggle Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 I consider gaming to be like watching TV. Too much is not good but some every now and then can be a great way to unwind. I don't enjoy most of what is on tv so when I am alone and bored I play a game. I see nothing wrong with it. 1
Imported Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 The "gamers" I am talking about are addicts. They literally plan their life around a video game. They eat like ****, spend nearly all of their non-work time playing a video game or in front of a computer. They get fat. If they are not fat now, give it time. With their eating habits and zero physical exsertion, it is only a matter of time before they're obese. They go to the gym? They will start rationalizing how they could have advanced themselves farther in a video game........LOL.....if they just spent less time in the gym. Eventually....no gym, nothing. Just work and video games. Then they cry about how girls don't like regular nice guys .If this not you, then I am not talking about you and don't feel like you have to defend it or deflect. There are guys like that out there though, lots of them and they seem to be growing. If you want to aspire to be something like that or allow yourself to enter a path that leads you down that road, cool.
Woggle Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 People can become addicted to anything. You have people who have a drink or two and then you severe alcoholics who throw it all away for booze.
Shardish Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 There ought to be a topic about how people in general are addicted to their smartphones, facebook and twitter. I am certain that there are more people addicted to these three things than computer games. 1
Alma Mobley Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 My limited understanding of gender issues arising in the gaming community informs me that few men, if any, object to the presence of women in gaming. What they object to is the fact that women demand a change in the norms and mores of the gaming culture in order to accommodate their more easily offended feelings. Frankly, considering the fact that the gaming community was at one point one of the last real "boys clubs" out there, I wouldn't really begrudge men for resenting being told they have to change the way they behave or censor themselves. I don't usually comment on this gender war stuff but... To be succinct and trite .... lol wut? That comment makes no sense whatsoever to me as it is not my experience with men or with men who game. You obviously know nothing about women in the gaming community if you actually think men are changing to accomadate us poor widdle women crying into our virtually-made beers. But go ahead and celebrate video games and the Internet as a "boy's club" that got ruined by us wimmin. It is not like we play video games or have lives or think about philosophy or politics or anything like that. Or actually contribute anything. Kk! We are just reading our gossip mags and romance novels ... Of course.
Imported Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 There ought to be a topic about how people in general are addicted to their smartphones, facebook and twitter. I am certain that there are more people addicted to these three things than computer games. This topic wasn't started by one of those three. This topic was started by a gamer asking why people of the opposite sex has problems with it. Probably because he has problems or see's problems with "gamers" getting, staying with women. The people that are not gamers didn't care enough about it, they just find someone else. People are just trying to explain to OP the problems, but OP would rather be a gamer and everyone else should just accept it. I don't think its going to work out very well that way. Maybe there will be women that he can find that are OK enough with it, probably women I'd ignore. I don't Facebook, I am not even sure what twitter is and I think my smartphone is only useful because it organizes people to phone numbers very well and I know exactly who I am speaking to, however I still seriously consider switching back to a regular cell phone because I just don't use all the other features enough to justify the monthly charge.
mustangguy29 Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 For my girlfriend, I think it is about inclusion versus exclusion. If I read the economist or check out Facebook. I can share my experience there with my girlfriend, so she feels included, even if I read for an hour, but only share one paragraph. If I play a first person shooter, I disappear, and she feels excluded, so she gets annoyed. BUT, it is not really about me playing a game, it is about her not feeling included. I got a Wii, and she will play Wii with me for hours. She will even start a game and ask me to come play. Additionally, she does not like the "anti-social" aspect of gaming. If I am playing with strangers or playing a single person game, she does not like it. If I am playing with my best friend and talking on Skype with him, she sees it as me catching up with a friend and it does not bother her if I play for 2 hours.
grkBoy Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 I honestly have no time anymore for video games...outside of some off my smartphone when I'm sitting on the train. I do blogging, some web site work, sometimes photography stuff or DJ stuff. My fiancee thankfully doesn't give me flack if I spend an evening or day on the weekend working on something personal. However, she will say something if I'm suddenly up all night, being late for work, and not doing my end of the household stuff. Some women, like one ex I had, clearly want to control their men. They want them to give up their personal hobbies and "fall in line" with their own goals for life. So suddenly he's told to give up his Xbox and watching football because she wants kids and for him to spend his free time raising those kids. Or she wants a "screen free" house, believing all that tech will "dumb down" the kids. Or even she wants him doing only "revenue-generating" stuff in his free time. My past ex I believe hated that I did personal fun websites, and would rather I work freelance in my spare time, making my free time all about making money and saving it. All in all, the true strength of a guy is partially to rationally sit down and find the happy balance in a RL, but also having the guys to break it off when you see your GF isn't a nice girl, but the super-b!tch who wants to control you. I know some women will think it's childish to break up with a girl over video games, but it's more about setting a precedence on your life together. It would be like a BF telling you never to cut your hair or gain weight or something beyond your control. 1
Author chucksagent Posted February 13, 2013 Author Posted February 13, 2013 grkbpy - WE HAVE A WINNER!! WHAT DO WE HAVE FOR EM JOHNNY, SHOW EM WHAT HE'S WON!!! Last year, a few good friends and I had a tradition we would go out for dinner one night a week, the 4 of us, we've been friends for 20 years...and NONE of our girls liked it...they HATED it... And I don't care what ANYONE on this message board says, their experience may be different, but the part of the country I am from, women don't keep their bonds with their friends as strong as men do. I don't think they understand the bonding and the need for a guy to unwind and have some ALONE time. We were out to dinner once and our one buddies girlfriend just SHOWS UP with some bullcrap excuse about the washer being broken...lol..as if he was just going to leave and fix it. I mean, come ON! Now I'm sure plenty of girls out there keep their friends and have their own personal time too. But it's been my experience, and those close to me, as if the women we meet want us ALL to themselves or at least 80-90% to them. They want to do EVERY hobby we have with us...want to follow us around like lost puppies...Our parents and grandparents generation was THE OPPOSITE...again, at least near where I live...older guys would be in bowling leagues, volunteer firehouses, freemason logdes, dar leagues, card games, etc...and they were NEVER at home. Now, a guy wants to go out once a week or play a video game for a half hour a day and he gets crap for it. Lol. And people wonder why the divorce rate is so high...Remember when you were young and youd have sleepovers with cousins or friends...sometimes they would last a WHOLE weekend...and by the end of the weekend, you and your cousin/friend were at eachothers THROATS!!! EVERYONE gets sick of a person if they are constantly around them 24/7 without breaks... Estate - I see your point and it's a fair one...Excessive drinking and excessive gaming are both bad...but one is social one is unsocial, so the lesser of two evils is drinking...I get that...but gamers don't kill people in Gamer Under Influence accidents, gamers dont abuse their children, gamers arent responsible for 100,000's of deaths a year...I heard some moron on here say "I heard a person died from playing too long." Yeah, it happens like 0.0000001% of the time...nice fact sunshine. Lol. But you are right, Estate, NOTHING is good in excess. And I apprciate your honesty about what is attractive to women. I just wish they would consider thinking outside the box. Because being a homebody is gross now, but when you get married and have kids or heck, just get seriously committed, I know women who would PREFER a guy playing xbox over going to da club. Lol. Again, NOT talking about guys playing all night and ignroing their women. But it should be treated NO differently than all the other POINTLESS activities we described. Haha 1
TheBigQuestion Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 I don't usually comment on this gender war stuff but... To be succinct and trite .... lol wut? That comment makes no sense whatsoever to me as it is not my experience with men or with men who game. You obviously know nothing about women in the gaming community if you actually think men are changing to accomadate us poor widdle women crying into our virtually-made beers. But go ahead and celebrate video games and the Internet as a "boy's club" that got ruined by us wimmin. It is not like we play video games or have lives or think about philosophy or politics or anything like that. Or actually contribute anything. Kk! We are just reading our gossip mags and romance novels ... Of course. I think the last time I played any game was... Smash Bros, at a party, almost a year ago. You're right that my knowledge of the gaming community IS limited. But I've read various articles and watched numerous videos on youtube that were not so much about men complaining about the influx of women into gaming but rather from women complaining about how they are treated in the gaming community. My comments on the subject were a tangent which I freely I admitted I didn't know too much about. Next time consider telling me why I'm wrong, back it up with examples, explain it to me, and refrain from putting words in my mouth. You know, have a discussion the way adults do.
TheBigQuestion Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) We were out to dinner once and our one buddies girlfriend just SHOWS UP with some bullcrap excuse about the washer being broken...lol..as if he was just going to leave and fix it. I mean, come ON! Now I'm sure plenty of girls out there keep their friends and have their own personal time too. But it's been my experience, and those close to me, as if the women we meet want us ALL to themselves or at least 80-90% to them. They want to do EVERY hobby we have with us...want to follow us around like lost puppies...Our parents and grandparents generation was THE OPPOSITE...again, at least near where I live...older guys would be in bowling leagues, volunteer firehouses, freemason logdes, dar leagues, card games, etc...and they were NEVER at home. Now, a guy wants to go out once a week or play a video game for a half hour a day and he gets crap for it. Lol. And people wonder why the divorce rate is so high...Remember when you were young and youd have sleepovers with cousins or friends...sometimes they would last a WHOLE weekend...and by the end of the weekend, you and your cousin/friend were at eachothers THROATS!!! EVERYONE gets sick of a person if they are constantly around them 24/7 without breaks... But you are right, Estate, NOTHING is good in excess. And I apprciate your honesty about what is attractive to women. I just wish they would consider thinking outside the box. Because being a homebody is gross now, but when you get married and have kids or heck, just get seriously committed, I know women who would PREFER a guy playing xbox over going to da club. Lol. Again, NOT talking about guys playing all night and ignroing their women. But it should be treated NO differently than all the other POINTLESS activities we described. Haha You and grkboy are right. I wouldn't blame a woman for being angry and resentful at her significant other if he quite literally spends all his free time playing video games. However, the men that actually take it that far are relatively few and far between. More often, if girlfriends/wives harbor a resentment towards their men playing video games, it's usually an instance of a broader phenomenon you described in which the woman is trying to exert control and make the guy fall into line with her plans. In my experience, women are the ones that tend to have a "program" for life. They want the marriage, the house with the white picket fence, mortgage payments, the pets, the kids, the nice new furniture, the new paint on the walls, the remodeled kitchen with sexy marble countertops, conventional jobs with steady hours and steady pay, and so forth, all within a certain timeframe. On the other hand, I think it was Chris Rock who said that most men would be happy living in a cardboard box so long as he was getting laid. Having a man spending lots of his free time doing whatever random things that make him happy frustrate those goals because they aren't "working toward" anything other than an ethereal sense of pleasure. For some couples, this tendency towards having a programmed, scheduled life becomes a problem. Whether it becomes a problem is contingent on whether the men actually own an intact pair of testicles and put a foot down. "I'm going to do X activity every X (day of the week) and that's that." Most of the time, that's all it takes. Establish your need for space. I'm not afraid to put the foot down in my relationship, and thankfully I've only had to do it a handful of times in the context of asserting my right to have my own hobbies and recreational activities that are totally separate from my girlfriend. Edited February 14, 2013 by TheBigQuestion 2
Els Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 Huh, so this thread lasted without the gender warring for all of three posts after chuck's 'make peace' post. Commendable effort, OP, but you gotta stick to it if you wanna keep it. Big if there. I'll pop back in when anyone else feels like discussing the societal issues surrounding gaming without turning it, like everything else, into a men vs women thing.
Author chucksagent Posted February 14, 2013 Author Posted February 14, 2013 I didnt say ALL women...I said MANY women...I know SEVERAL girls who are super trusting and down to earth...who have their own friends...who enjoy time alone and space. I'm not KNOCKING women; just pointing out the differences I notice between men and women.
serial muse Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 grkbpy - WE HAVE A WINNER!! WHAT DO WE HAVE FOR EM JOHNNY, SHOW EM WHAT HE'S WON!!! Last year, a few good friends and I had a tradition we would go out for dinner one night a week, the 4 of us, we've been friends for 20 years...and NONE of our girls liked it...they HATED it... And I don't care what ANYONE on this message board says, their experience may be different, but the part of the country I am from, women don't keep their bonds with their friends as strong as men do. I don't think they understand the bonding and the need for a guy to unwind and have some ALONE time. We were out to dinner once and our one buddies girlfriend just SHOWS UP with some bullcrap excuse about the washer being broken...lol..as if he was just going to leave and fix it. I mean, come ON! Now I'm sure plenty of girls out there keep their friends and have their own personal time too. But it's been my experience, and those close to me, as if the women we meet want us ALL to themselves or at least 80-90% to them. They want to do EVERY hobby we have with us...want to follow us around like lost puppies...Our parents and grandparents generation was THE OPPOSITE...again, at least near where I live...older guys would be in bowling leagues, volunteer firehouses, freemason logdes, dar leagues, card games, etc...and they were NEVER at home. Now, a guy wants to go out once a week or play a video game for a half hour a day and he gets crap for it. Lol. And people wonder why the divorce rate is so high...Remember when you were young and youd have sleepovers with cousins or friends...sometimes they would last a WHOLE weekend...and by the end of the weekend, you and your cousin/friend were at eachothers THROATS!!! EVERYONE gets sick of a person if they are constantly around them 24/7 without breaks... Estate - I see your point and it's a fair one...Excessive drinking and excessive gaming are both bad...but one is social one is unsocial, so the lesser of two evils is drinking...I get that...but gamers don't kill people in Gamer Under Influence accidents, gamers dont abuse their children, gamers arent responsible for 100,000's of deaths a year...I heard some moron on here say "I heard a person died from playing too long." Yeah, it happens like 0.0000001% of the time...nice fact sunshine. Lol. But you are right, Estate, NOTHING is good in excess. And I apprciate your honesty about what is attractive to women. I just wish they would consider thinking outside the box. Because being a homebody is gross now, but when you get married and have kids or heck, just get seriously committed, I know women who would PREFER a guy playing xbox over going to da club. Lol. Again, NOT talking about guys playing all night and ignroing their women. But it should be treated NO differently than all the other POINTLESS activities we described. Haha Wow, your experience does not at all gel with mine. Where I'm from, a LOT of women have maintained close friendships with other women, and get together happily without the menfolk to catch up and spend time with just each other. I have NEVER experienced anything of what you're describing here. It actually sounds really alien to me. Maybe we live on different planets? I like my alone time and I like my time with my friends and I don't like living in my husband's back pocket, and I have a lot of female friends who think the same way. Perhaps it's just that one gets ensconced in one's little world - not just me, but you as well, and your wife too I suppose - and we all come to think that our personal experiences are representative. But yeah. I honestly feel like we move in very different worlds, because not one thing of what you describe about women and their friendships and their need to be up in their partners' business 24-7 rings true for me. I guess I'll just shrug and say, if you need this to be about gender - meaning the video game thing - then I don't know what to tell you except that maybe your wife just needs new friends? 1
Author chucksagent Posted February 14, 2013 Author Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) Serial Muse - Yeah I live on another planet...luckily for me, some of my alien brethren are here with me: Do men have more friends than women? - Lifestyle - DNA OR http://www.huffingtonpost.com/vicki-larson/why-do-women-lose-themsel_b_1402680.html OR Why do some women have such a hard time making friends: Nature or nurture? : The Friendship Blog OR Women: Is It Healthy to Not Have Any Female Friends? | Madame Noire | Black Women's Lifestyle Guide | Black Hair | Black Love OR I Am a Grown Woman With No Friends . . . : I Have No Friends Story & Experience Edited February 14, 2013 by chucksagent
Author chucksagent Posted February 14, 2013 Author Posted February 14, 2013 And everyone has heard the old "I can't be friends with girls - I only hang out with guys!" ~ From women You NEVER hear a dude say "I can't be friends with men - I only hang out with girls!" Lol
TheBigQuestion Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 Serial Muse - Yeah I live on another planet...luckily for me, some of my alien brethren are here with me: Do men have more friends than women? - Lifestyle - DNA OR Vicki Larson: Why Do Women Lose Themselves in Marriage? OR Why do some women have such a hard time making friends: Nature or nurture? : The Friendship Blog OR Women: Is It Healthy to Not Have Any Female Friends? | Madame Noire | Black Women's Lifestyle Guide | Black Hair | Black Love OR I Am a Grown Woman With No Friends . . . : I Have No Friends Story & Experience Two things you need to learn about posting here: (1) "Some women" means "all women." Anything you say about the opposite sex that might be negative will be internalized as a personal insult. This will be true even if you explicitly qualify your post with the phrase "some women." (2) You can post all the links in the world. If they goes against someone's personal opinion or experience, they will still be disregarded. Don't bother (2) If
Author chucksagent Posted February 14, 2013 Author Posted February 14, 2013 HAHAHAHAHA TheBigQuestion - Thanks man....I'm glad you get it...I was about to say, If a girl posted "Why are so many guys jerks?" I wouldn't IMMEDIATELY be like "Oh my god, dont generalize, I'm not a jerk blah blah blah" Heck, even if they said "ALL GUYS ARE JERKS!" I'd say, yeah a LOT of guys really suck....sorry...wish men were doing better But women will fight till the bitter end lol
venusianx13 Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 My boyfriend plays, but not every day, and 75% of the time it is to "hang out" with his "little bro". He can be very nerdy, and I actually really dig that. He never plays when I'm around, though, which I find to be very conscientous of him, and for that reason, I don't get upset with him for playing. However, I do see, and I've pointed out to him that he neglects a lot of things at home when "just one game" turns into 3 or 4. He realizes this, though, and has cut back quite a bit... 1
pink_sugar Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 Mostly because I don't find them constructive. Playing video games isn't enlightening to your brain as promoting literacy. It's also a nuisance sometimes, because my husband needs to make job hunting a priority and help out with the housework while I work two jobs to overcompensate.
MuscleCarFan Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 Mostly because I don't find them constructive. Playing video games isn't enlightening to your brain as promoting literacy. It's also a nuisance sometimes, because my husband needs to make job hunting a priority and help out with the housework while I work two jobs to overcompensate. I do send out plenty of resumes to find something.
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