Complicated affair

[CarrieT]

Brian...whatever decision you make, remember that it will be teaching your daughter a lot of the value of women and love in general...do yu wna to teach her that it's okay to be deceptive and lie and manipulate the women in your life to have your needs met, or do you want to teach her that people have value, that commitment means something, that honesty has value and is important, that it's not okay to lie and hurt the one you say you love? It won't be long before she's going to be a young lady and dating...what kind of lesson do you want to teach her? What kind of treatment do you want to teach her to accept?

This is one of the most critical points made in this entire thread.

 

One of my best friends produced a daughter from an affair and the man told his wife of the coming of the child the day my friend went into labor.

 

Subsequently, how this man has dealt with the existence of two families has been very telling on my god-daughter, who is now 10 years old.

 

She knows that her father has another wife, another family, and that she has been forced to compartmentalize the existence of her "two families" and the limited contact she has with her father (twice a year and occasional Skype calls, when he remembers).

 

It is heartbreaking to see this little girl being raised knowing that she is not valued by her father and to not trust what few men she has in her life (her grandfather - the one father figure she had - passed away last year, so all she sees is that men are not there for her). Of course this is all messages that are fed to her by her mother, but SHE is doing the best she can, raising a child essentially on her own with an absent father.

 

Brian, I hope you can get beyond what YOU want for your own selfish needs and do right by the daughter you created.

[Brian1]

This is one of the most critical points made in this entire thread.

 

One of my best friends produced a daughter from an affair and the man told his wife of the coming of the child the day my friend went into labor.

 

Subsequently, how this man has dealt with the existence of two families has been very telling on my god-daughter, who is now 10 years old.

 

She knows that her father has another wife, another family, and that she has been forced to compartmentalize the existence of her "two families" and the limited contact she has with her father (twice a year and occasional Skype calls, when he remembers).

 

It is heartbreaking to see this little girl being raised knowing that she is not valued by her father and to not trust what few men she has in her life (her grandfather - the one father figure she had - passed away last year, so all she sees is that men are not there for her). Of course this is all messages that are fed to her by her mother, but SHE is doing the best she can, raising a child essentially on her own with an absent father.

 

Brian, I hope you can get beyond what YOU want for your own selfish needs and do right by the daughter you created.

 

Believe me, my number 1 priority is to participate positively in my daughters' life.

[Brian1]

Assuming that you won't be under lock and key; the same opportunities that have afforded this to go on for 5 years will likely still be there.

 

To tell you the truth, I would like to still be with both women but I am getting tired of all of the hiding, conniving, lying and secrecy. I'm moving forward with my plan. The legalization process is now in motion (gathering of documents). This step could take up to a month, but I have no hurry.

 

But once I have to leave one woman or the other (voluntarily or not) or both, it's going to be very, very difficult. I don't look forward to that moment.

[Realist3]

So he'd be teaching is daughter " hey, it doesn't matter if your boyfriend/husband cheating on you hurts you...just let him go and do whatever he wants and to hell with how you feel. Look how I treat your mom and your step mom...as long as I'm happy, who care how they feel"

 

No. She is a young child. She doesn't understand the dynamic of cheating.

 

Even when she is older why would she have to know about the cheating? She woudn't. Whether her mommy and daddy are romatically involved should not be something she knows about.

[Realist3]

To tell you the truth, I would like to still be with both women but I am getting tired of all of the hiding, conniving, lying and secrecy. I'm moving forward with my plan. The legalization process is now in motion (gathering of documents). This step could take up to a month, but I have no hurry.

 

But once I have to leave one woman or the other (voluntarily or not) or both, it's going to be very, very difficult. I don't look forward to that moment.

 

Understood.

[Brian1]

So he'd be teaching is daughter " hey, it doesn't matter if your boyfriend/husband cheating on you hurts you...just let him go and do whatever he wants and to hell with how you feel. Look how I treat your mom and your step mom...as long as I'm happy, who care how they feel"

 

children aren't idiots, and know a lot more than people give them credit for...

 

Brian,

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you aren't the cold, heartless person that some one here assume you are ( even the posters who encourage you to keep up your affair...they assume you have it in you to continue to hurt people the way you have and that you've learned nothing from all of this )...I'd like to think you're a better person than that and that you have learned...

 

I'll tell you a story of what one of my husband's good friends told him...

 

After I found out my husband had cheated, he left home and moved in with his other woman and waffled back and forth for a few weeks, treating me like cr@p and making my life and our kids lives miserable. He knew that he was, but rationalized it under the guise of " I'm doing what I want and I deserve to be happy"...

 

It was a horrible time...I tried to hide it from my kids, but they knew anyway, and they also knew I lied to them about what was going on ( I hate that I lied to them)...

 

Our neighbor, who was also a good friend and a drill instructor on a course my husband was on, had finally had enough of seeing him waffle around and hurt me and our kids. He sat him down, yelled at him for a while ( and until you've been sat down and yelled at by a french Canadian drill instructor you don't know what being yelled at means ...we could hear him form down the road )...

After that, he talked to him more "man to man" and told him something he still remembers...

 

it was that one day, our kids will be adults. he told him to imagine himself as the parent of an adult daughter. Maybe she has kids ( your grandkids) . You love her, you love your grandkids, and you love your son in law. Everything seems happy.

One night, you get a call from your daughter. She's crying and in more pain than you've ever seen. She tells you her husband has been cheating on her, and she doesn't know what to do.

 

you don't know what to say. someone has just hurt your baby girl and your grandchildren. You want to help, but what do you do? You want to strangle your son in law, but don't. Your heart is breaking for your little girl who is devastated. If you could take her pain away and make it yours, you would.

 

Imagine yourself in that place. How would you feel? How would your little girl feel? What would you advise?

 

Now imagine it's a few months later, and they've reconciled...you find out your son in law is still cheating on her...how would you feel? what would you think of him?

 

Do you see what i am getting at? I'm sure you wouldn't want your little girl hurt like this, and you'd be livid and want to hurt the guy who was hurting her- it would not be "okay" and all the reasons in the world wouldn't make it so ...but if it's not okay for someone to do it to your daughter, why is it okay for you to do it to your wife?

 

Besides, like I said , do you really want to teach your daughter that this kind of behavior is acceptable? No words will change her thinking that if she knows you are doing it yourself....

 

That's a touching story. Yes I have considered my daughters' future as a result of the impact of my affair. She could certainly justify bad behavior or be confused by it because she knows her father behaved in a similar way. I don't want that. I want her to have a clear vision of right and wrong.

[Brian1]

Brian, poligamy is not legal in the western world. Your dream was never realistic, although this is what you've tried hard to build in your own way.

 

Every MM/MW who enters into an affair enter it initially to fill a void they are experiencing in their marriage. Each participant has a different type of void. Some are superficial and some are deeper. Once the affair gets rolling, that's when the dynamics change considerably. And the good things as well as the bad things begin to grow and grow and grow. Before one realizes it, a simple curiosity has grown into an uncontrollable beast. Learning to love (not just have sex) more than one person at the same time is not a normal human behavior. But it is very, very, very difficult to successfully accomplish. I wonder what the percentage of affairs are successful. A successful affair to me is one that has a beginning and an ending and no one ever finding out about the affair besides the two participants. And both participants end the affair amicably and remain platonic friends. I believe the percentage, if even one ever existed, is far less than 1%. A successful affair would be a dream.

[mellow_yellow]

I think, sadly, my dream of having romantic contact with both women is soon to end.

 

Yes, I think so too.

 

That's why they call it a dream.

[Brian1]

What father? She doesn't know you're her father.

 

I would put her well-being ahead of your own desires and seriously consider that it might be better for her not 2 know that you're her father, so that the OW can find someone who will be a real father 2 her daughter and give her the upbringing that she deserves.

 

-ol' 2long

 

Well, I understand this is a long thread, but I've mentioned many times that my daughter knows I am her father. I get together with her and her mother at least once per week. I enjoy being with my daughter and she clearly enjoys being with me. We have a great relationship although infrequent. So, let me be clear. I am her father and I always will be her father. She is and will be very proud of her father as her father is and always will be proud of her. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, 2long, but those are the facts.

[woinlove]

Every MM/MW who enters into an affair enter it initially to fill a void they are experiencing in their marriage. Each participant has a different type of void. Some are superficial and some are deeper. Once the affair gets rolling, that's when the dynamics change considerably. And the good things as well as the bad things begin to grow and grow and grow. Before one realizes it, a simple curiosity has grown into an uncontrollable beast. Learning to love (not just have sex) more than one person at the same time is not a normal human behavior. But it is very, very, very difficult to successfully accomplish. I wonder what the percentage of affairs are successful. A successful affair to me is one that has a beginning and an ending and no one ever finding out about the affair besides the two participants. And both participants end the affair amicably and remain platonic friends. I believe the percentage, if even one ever existed, is far less than 1%. A successful affair would be a dream.

 

The bolded is not true. Read some stories here. Some MM/MW begin an affair while very happily married. Some are just curious and don't have the character to not pursue that curiousity in a deceitful way. Some are afraid of getting older and want to try to reclaim their youth. Some can't deal with a job loss, an illness, a death, whatever. Some just cheat no matter what.

 

When talking about people, most statements that start with "Every MM/MW" are not true. True for some, not others.

[veryhappy]

You have gone beyond the line of a succesful affair with your OW. You practically have a second M. You had a child, you play daddy one day per week. You are financially involved in their lives. This is not an A that can go away peacefully.

[Brian1]

The bolded is not true. Read some stories here. Some MM/MW begin an affair while very happily married. Some are just curious and don't have the character to not pursue that curiousity in a deceitful way. Some are afraid of getting older and want to try to reclaim their youth. Some can't deal with a job loss, an illness, a death, whatever. Some just cheat no matter what.

 

When talking about people, most statements that start with "Every MM/MW" are not true. True for some, not others.

 

Your entire post agrees completely with what I stated. Perhaps the term void threw you off. For example, a marriage consists of many variables. A spouse could be very happy in all but one of those, let's say. That particular marriage could be considered a very happy one. The one variable in which the one spouse is not happy (void), could be enough of a stimulus to commence an affair or at least strike up a curiosity. Maybe every is stretching it, but let's say nearly every or at least many, many.

[Brian1]

You have gone beyond the line of a succesful affair with your OW. You practically have a second M. You had a child, you play daddy one day per week. You are financially involved in their lives. This is not an A that can go away peacefully.

 

I agree with that.

[Brian1]

Affairs are failures, period. Affairees are cowards. Unrepentant affairees are pathetic individuals, but repentant affairees - the ones willing 2 do whatever is required 2 help the betrayeds heal from the fallout of their selfish and thoughtless choices - can become respectable.

 

-ol' 2long

 

I hate to tell you, 2long...but I agree with you whole heartedly, objectively speaking of course. I think you really hit it on the head as far as the BS is concerned. But I have to believe somehow, someway the cheater has to take into consideration the emotions of the OW/OM if he wants to come clean and try to reconcile with the spouse. That's where the tough part is with a cheater who wants to repent and help the W/H heal. Getting into an affair is easy, getting out is brutally difficult because of the fallout.

[Brian1]

In this area, I agree with Steve Harley of Marriage Builders (rare, these days). People don't have affairs because of voids in their primary relationships, they have affairs because they don't care enough or have the intestinal 4ti2de 2 protect their primary relationship from their own weaknesses and susceptibility 2 temptation.

 

It is that simple. Any "void" they may perceive is in their value system, though it makes for great rationalizations for bad behavior.

 

Happiness isn't getting what you want, it's wanting what you already have.

 

-ol' 2long

 

Once again, somehow I hate to say it, but I agree with you 100%.

[Brian1]

Why is it okay 2 be so concerned about the one you're cheating with, who knows and willingly participates in the lying and sneaking around? Why is breaking off the affair (or better yet, refusing 2 have one in the first place) by considering the other cheater's emotions on the same level as being truthful with your spouse?

 

Sorry, affairees don't deserve that consideration. Better stated, they don't deserve consideration that should have been reserved for the BS before an affair started, though everyone deserves 2 be treated with respect (and I would argue that ending an affair cold 2rkey would be a lot more respectful of the AP than stringing them on by promising "we'll always be friends").

 

-ol' 2long

 

Everyone is human. If someone falls in love, even for all the wrong reasons, they still have feelings for that person. The longer the time together the deeper the feelings. And to me, to just remove someone from your life because the initiation of the love bond was not correct, is wrong. The whole point is, once the affair is initiated, now what. Of course it's wrong, but why. Not because the two AP's love each other. It's because the two AP's aren't taking into consideration the emotions and life of the BS as they go about their happy, exciting relationship. Not all MM/MW or OW/OM get into an affair for the same reasons. But most are commenced by people that have deep psychological issues. But then again, who doesn't have deep psychological issues? Clearly, not getting into an illicit loving relationship is highly preferred. Everyone makes mistakes of one form or another. That's what life is all about. Make mistakes...learn from them...grow. How they clean them up or correct them is the part that builds character and fortitude.

[wisernow]

Well, I understand this is a long thread, but I've mentioned many times that my daughter knows I am her father. I get together with her and her mother at least once per week. I enjoy being with my daughter and she clearly enjoys being with me. We have a great relationship although infrequent. So, let me be clear. I am her father and I always will be her father. She is and will be very proud of her father as her father is and always will be proud of her. I'm sorry to burst your bubble, 2long, but those are the facts.

 

 

See Brian, You say the above, but then in post #80 you said this:

 

"Thanks for your advice seren. Your comments are direct, honest and correct yet, not cruel or mean in there tone. I appreciate your comments and advice. I have never, ever discussed my affair with anyone at all until I posted on this thread. I have been confused for the 3 + years that my daughter has been born (even though I saw her every day for the first 1 1/2 years). I really miss being with her on a daily basis. I do feel ashamed that she can't go around calling me daddy in public and when she sees me she must wonder why I drive by, wave to her in front of her house but continue on my way. She has to be priority #1 for me and now after reading all of the comments I have to definitely move to bring myself into her life on a regular and open basis. I think I'm going to go to a psychologist or psychiatrist to discuss this relationship and see how they suggest fixing it properly with the least amount of pain for my wife or my girlfriend. I love them both very much but in very different ways. I know it's sick and not normal but it a reality. Thanks again for your comments."

 

I'm really curious what your daughter calls you since she is NOT ALLOWED to call you daddy? This reason alone is one of the reasons you need to get your situation in order. She is very quickly going to start questioning why she can't call you daddy in public. My question to you is why you would put a child (not calling you daddy) in this situation at all. Who does she think you are, or do you just instruct her that you can only be called daddy when no one is around? Just think of the confusion this must cause her. You can say all day how proud of your daughter you are, but by your actions and the very fact she is not even allowed to call you daddy sends the message loud and clear that you are nothing but ashamed of her. She might not get that today or be able to verbalize it, but she very soon will.

 

If we're confused (on this thread) I can only imagine your daughters confusion.

 

And to me, in your situation, your wife and your girlfriend are of secondary importance.

Edited February 19, 2013 by wisernow

[SidLyon]

You have gone beyond the line of a succesful affair with your OW. You practically have a second M. You had a child, you play daddy one day per week. You are financially involved in their lives. This is not an A that can go away peacefully.

 

I agree with that.

 

I hope you don't mind that I post a copy of something I posted yesterday on another thread. It is:

 

"A member of my family (L) was brought up as the only child of his parents. After the death of both his parents, L discovered that in fact his parents were never married, his mother was the OW and his father had 4 other children by his legitimate wife. L's father had floated between the 2 women/families throughout L's childhood and L had not realized. He was led to believe his father traveled a lot. L was in his mid 60s when he found this out and it had a profoundly detrimental affect on him as he felt that much of his childhood was a sham and felt betrayed by his parents. This was 15 years ago and L has still not gotten over this.

 

L is my father-in-law by the way. L's father led a complete double life as did L himself when he cheated on my MIL and then L's son (my fWH) did something similar to me and our kids. I cannot hep but think that this sort of thing can run in families and I fear for my own sons, that one day I'll be consoling distraught daughters-in-law myself. I really do hate this aspect of infidelity."

 

To me you are potentially setting up your daughter for a similar situation. When this news came out, it was inconceivable to all of us that my FIL never noticed that his father was commuting between 2 families. He had just grown up accepting his father's long absences as the norm, and his own mother (knowing that she was the OW) was complicit in hiding the facts from L. He's going on 80 now and has not got over it. He has managed to establish a relationship now with one of his half-siblings. Two had already died before he found out and one will have nothing to do with him because of his mother being the OW, nearly 80 years ago!

[Brian1]

If that is your #1 priority, what are you doing to show that? You are sneaking around and she can't go to Daddy's house nor can she bring you to school or have you meet her at school to have lunch. So how again are you making her your #1 priority?

 

 

 

You cannot say that she will be very proud of her father...when she learns what her father did, she will not be proud. She may very well hate you as a teenager (because that is how teenagers are). I forsee you throwing money at her to appease her and coddling her so she will probably grow up as a spoiled, selfish person who thinks all it takes is money and she will be telling her friends how she gets everything she wants.

 

She won't be proud to stand up in front of her class and tell her the things she learned the previous summer were that her father had an affair with her mother and it went on for years. Even after he found out the 'truth' that she is his daughter, he still didn't tell his wife. He still continued to have an affair with her mom because he was enjoying his cake.

 

So tell your wife NOW. You know the truth - you are her biological father. There is no need to wait until the birth certificate is changed. Tell your wife NOW, today. When she finds out you knew for MONTHS that she was your biological daughter and you STILL didn't tell her, she will hate you. It is one thing for you to pull the wool over her and tell your wife you weren't POSITIVE your daughter was yours biologicallly. You now know and you STILL have no plans to tell her IMMEDIATELY. That is so unfair to your wife. You are playing games with HER life because you want to keep playing house with the OW. You want to keep the status quo for as long as you can --- and that is such selfish and cowardly behavior.

 

Is that what you plan to teach your daughter....cheat, cheat, cheat and keep doing it until the last possible moment?

 

I want to get the birth certificate changed first because if I tell my wife before the change, I believe my OW will go ballistic and make things difficult. I want to stay cozy with the OW for one more month maximum in order to get the bc changed. Once that is done, I'm going to tell my wife everything and let her decide what she wants to do. Before I tell my wife though, I have decided just in the past two days, that I will tell my OW that I would like to end our relationship. I will let that settle down awhile and then I will open up with my wife. So, my wife will either want to reconcile or I will be on my own with my daughter, occasionally. We'll have to see what happens after dday. But I'm convinced now that I really don't want to be with my OW the rest of my life. I'll set her free and wish her luck. I'll also help her financially (in addition to child support) until she finds someone new or maximum until my daughter reaches 18 years old. This is one shameful mess that I wish I never started.

[Survivor12]

I want to get the birth certificate changed first because if I tell my wife before the change, I believe my OW will go ballistic and make things difficult. I want to stay cozy with the OW for one more month maximum in order to get the bc changed. Once that is done, I'm going to tell my wife everything and let her decide what she wants to do. Before I tell my wife though, I have decided just in the past two days, that I will tell my OW that I would like to end our relationship. I will let that settle down awhile and then I will open up with my wife. So, my wife will either want to reconcile or I will be on my own with my daughter, occasionally. We'll have to see what happens after dday. But I'm convinced now that I really don't want to be with my OW the rest of my life. I'll set her free and wish her luck. I'll also help her financially (in addition to child support) until she finds someone new or maximum until my daughter reaches 18 years old. This is one shameful mess that I wish I never started.

 

I really hope that you are committed to this. It gives your OW the opportunity to find a man who does want to spend his life with her, it shows your wife that you are sincere about choosing her, AND, it makes it possible for your daughter to grow up without being under a shadow of shame and deception.

[fllygirl]

My plan is in motion. The last stop is letting my wife know what's been going on.

My wife and I were talking today over dinner about her father, who died 26 years ago at the young age of 43. She loved her father very much. Her father had at least 2 different affairs and had 2 children outside of his marriage. One of the children he accepted and cared for. The other, who is the sister of the first, he did not. I don't know all the details. But my wife said she feels very bad that her father rejected the second child because of a problem he had with the childs' mother, his OW.

 

its interesting that your wife brings this now after 23 years of being together and 16 years of marriage....maybe just a coincidence...

... what if she already knows about your daughter or suspects something?

[Realist3]

I want to get the birth certificate changed first because if I tell my wife before the change, I believe my OW will go ballistic and make things difficult. I want to stay cozy with the OW for one more month maximum in order to get the bc changed. Once that is done, I'm going to tell my wife everything and let her decide what she wants to do. Before I tell my wife though, I have decided just in the past two days, that I will tell my OW that I would like to end our relationship. I will let that settle down awhile and then I will open up with my wife. So, my wife will either want to reconcile or I will be on my own with my daughter, occasionally. We'll have to see what happens after dday. But I'm convinced now that I really don't want to be with my OW the rest of my life. I'll set her free and wish her luck. I'll also help her financially (in addition to child support) until she finds someone new or maximum until my daughter reaches 18 years old. This is one shameful mess that I wish I never started.

 

Best of luck with that.

 

I'm amazed at the change you have made in the few weeks this thread has been around. I guess over this period you have gained some clarity, and that is always a good thing.

 

You know what is best, and while you have danced all around, I think you have come to the best conclusion.

[Tenacity]

I continue to wonder why this thread didn't end 30 (or 40 or 59) or more pages ago.

 

Why do members here post over and over to people who prove themselves to be complete jerks in the first page of the thread? Or who prove that they don't listen to advice given? Why does this thread have 60 pages?

[Brian1]

its interesting that your wife brings this now after 23 years of being together and 16 years of marriage....maybe just a coincidence...

... what if she already knows about your daughter or suspects something?

 

My wife has mentioned the story about her father many times over our 23 years together.

 

Also, I believe my wife has always suspected my daughter is mine. She has mentioned it many times also. Sly remarks, like "Are you sure this child isn't yours? She sure resembles you." Then she would laugh. And now as my daughter gets older, she resembles me more and more.

[Brian1]

I really hope that you are committed to this. It gives your OW the opportunity to find a man who does want to spend his life with her, it shows your wife that you are sincere about choosing her, AND, it makes it possible for your daughter to grow up without being under a shadow of shame and deception.

 

I hope nothing dramatic happens to influence my plan, in a negative way.