Fighting paranoia

[Trinfire]

Agreed Nervis.

 

It's going to be a topic of conversation at MC. I did ask another female friend what she thought of it and she actually saw the benefit of doing that and had been doing something similar with her husband. She saw her relationship with her husband as something very personal that was not up for sharing whereas pictures of trips or of extended family didn't matter as much.

 

My counsellor saw it as a way a person with low self-confidence keeps their options open in case things don't work out.

[Darren Steez]

Lol find it a bit funny that people are suggesting the woman is cheating again even after she deleted all her online stuff and is making moves to reconcile.

Find it amusing people are suggesting cheating and OP to leave the marriage.

 

Clearly they haven't read the whole thread and subsequent updates.

[Darren Steez]

She has not recommitted to him and that's plain as day based on what I just quoted. That's a warning shot fired over the bow if ever there was one.

 

Just because she deletes this and that is meaningless.

 

Don't be anxioux about me leaving you because there's nothing you can do about it?

 

yeah I think that would make me "paranoid" also.

 

You're quite a psychologist. Not sticking up for the woman, because she did cheat, but what did she say that was exactly wrong? It is a truth, and it's a harsh truth. If they fell out of love then one or the other can leave.

 

Just find it funny that they are obviously trying to make it work but people still insist to quote the negatives.

 

Good luck OP by the way.

[Trinfire]

Hello. Sorry to hear about all your stress. The following concerned me:

 

What she should have said to you was:

 

"Don't ever be anxious about me leaving because I'll never leave you."

 

Instead she said not to be anxious because you have no control over it.

 

She's telling you that you have no control over her. You're not the boss of her. She can do whatever she pleases. And you have to take it.

 

It's her choice to be with you, but the way she said it clearly has the threat of choosing to leave you. Why not a statement of lifetime commitment--that she has made her choice, to be with you, and there is no more choosing to be done?

 

 

She's still cheating I'm afraid even though you don't want to believe it.

 

What she said to you was a very thinly-veiled threat. It was exactly the wrong choice of words in that situation.

 

It also means you shouldn't be anxious if she decides to cheat on you ("leaving" you is a polite proxy for "cheating" on you) because you have no control over that, either.

 

She told you exactly where her head is at.

 

With a little more background, I think it's more acceptable. Had that been her point of view since the beginning, I would tend to agree. She has said I shouldnt worry because she's never leaving many, many times. But the cold, hard, logical side of Trinfire also recognizes that we only have control over ourselves. Short of locking my wife up, I don't have control of her leaving me, having an affair, becoming a Hells Angel, etc.

 

I don't want my wife to leave. Can I force her not to? No. So the idea, as harsh as it may be, that a person chooses to be with me is supposed to allay my anxiety. Does it work? Depends on the mood swing.

[Trinfire]

You're quite a psychologist. Not sticking up for the woman, because she did cheat, but what did she say that was exactly wrong? It is a truth, and it's a harsh truth. If they fell out of love then one or the other can leave.

 

Just find it funny that they are obviously trying to make it work but people still insist to quote the negatives.

 

Good luck OP by the way.

 

Thanks Darren. As I said way back at the beginning, I didn't expect this forum to be all rainbows and puppy dogs. Many, many people here have been scarred in relationships, including myself, and look at any potential reconciliations with a suspicious eye. Every post here for or against has rattled around in my head many times. Am I more sensitive than normal because she's away? Yeah. She's home tomorrow morning.

[aed]

@ Trinfire,

 

I still think you are not paranoia, and your wife needs too put in more effort on how to win your trust back! The problem is with this thread is imo: you ask what you can do to trust her. The problem is you can do nothing just accept the risk you take and accept that you can't do anything to prefent her from cheating!

 

She is still doing the things she did when she cheated (yes she chancelled some trips, but still goes on trips etc).

 

What I think you need to do: is work on yourself. Be come a stronger, true assertetive man. Go on an active vacation (mountain climbing, hunting etc) with a male friend. Do things with friends, go do things that makes you happy. Work on your self for yourself, not for your marraige!!!!!

 

 

If this is not what you want or think will help you then I only see one solution:

You go off this board and your wife opens an thread about how to reconcile your marraige and winning your trust back.

[Trinfire]

Update:

 

I've moved out while my wife figures out what's going on. She's severely depressed, has told me she loves me but doesn't know if it's as a husband, brother, best friend. Apparently that's why she's been acting strangely. At this point, my preference is to just hear it's an affair versus uncertainty. She says she feels trapped so I have said "You are free to do whatever, but you will figure it out on your own."

 

We're going NC for a week. Will talk again on Saturday and figure out where to go from there. In the interim, I will be doing the usual break-up procedure of gym, food and games. I feel incredibly sad; I love my wife. I have to love me too. And I can't live with someone who doesn't know.

 

She claims depression over the past year or so and I totally see that. It explains more of behaviours i've talked about recently: instagram, not mentioning a husband to guild friends, etc. Absolute precursors to an affair if it hasn't begun yet. Although I suppose it's not an affair if we're not together.

 

She's heading into IC ASAP. Unfortunately today is a stat holiday. I'll continue my usual IC.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Trinfire

[BetrayedH]

Update:

 

I've moved out while my wife figures out what's going on. She's severely depressed, has told me she loves me but doesn't know if it's as a husband, brother, best friend. Apparently that's why she's been acting strangely. At this point, my preference is to just hear it's an affair versus uncertainty. She says she feels trapped so I have said "You are free to do whatever, but you will figure it out on your own."

 

We're going NC for a week. Will talk again on Saturday and figure out where to go from there. In the interim, I will be doing the usual break-up procedure of gym, food and games. I feel incredibly sad; I love my wife. I have to love me too. And I can't live with someone who doesn't know.

 

She claims depression over the past year or so and I totally see that. It explains more of behaviours i've talked about recently: instagram, not mentioning a husband to guild friends, etc. Absolute precursors to an affair if it hasn't begun yet. Although I suppose it's not an affair if we're not together.

 

She's heading into IC ASAP. Unfortunately today is a stat holiday. I'll continue my usual IC.

 

Good grief. So much for a great return from her business trip.

 

I have a feeling that the affair has been ongoing on these trips and now just too much pressure has been brought to bear on her. Most, if not all, of us betrayed spouses have heard this "I love you but I'm not in love with you" nonsense before. It's time for you to do the 180.

 

It's also sad that you've lost this place as a safe place to vent. Wish I hadn't recommended sharing it with her.

[Trinfire]

Good grief. So much for a great return from her business trip.

 

I have a feeling that the affair has been ongoing on these trips and now just too much pressure has been brought to bear on her. Most, if not all, of us betrayed spouses have heard this "I love you but I'm not in love with you" nonsense before. It's time for you to do the 180.

 

It's also sad that you've lost this place as a safe place to vent. Wish I hadn't recommended sharing it with her.

 

Nah, I don't think the affair continued as it was pretty lame and the kid was pretty obvious. ****, he called the house repeatedly trying to get ahold of me. If anything, it's an inappropriate relationship with another online person. The latest trigger that caused all this was Skype.

 

While she was in Vancouver, we were talking on the phone and she said we would Skype later. And then corrected herself to FaceTime. That was odd as we've never Skyped back and forth. She got a new ipad and when she brought it home to show me, she was showing me all the apps she installed. She was showing me the app store and the first screen was search results for Skype.

 

I told her, using the language that the counsellor told me, that I needed her to help me and I wanted her to understand that I was triggering on her use of Skype. She got upset and cried that she wasn't doing anything wrong and it's like she was living in a prison where everything she did was under scrutiny and review; leading to the trapped conversation, leading to the talk about how she was feeling.

 

She never did show me Skype at all. I continued to press and she continued to press back. She still didn't end up showing me anything on Skype - and at this point, there's no point. As far as I'm concerned, the Skype thing was non-negotiable. She could delete the app now and I'd take that as confirmation of at minimum an EA. That said, she doesn't show up as having used Skype in a looooong time. She could, of course, create another user ID and I would never know.

[Owl]

I'm not normally the negative guy here...but this time, I think I gotta be.

 

She wouldn't show you Skype, after you'd asked to see it?

 

And now she's "depressed", and loves you but not in love with you ("not as a husband")?

 

Dude...you've been on the forums, you know the red flags.

 

She's either still cheating with the same guy, or she's started a new affair with someone else.

 

Regardless...you know full well why she's acting the way she's acting.

 

The question is...what do you do now, in light of that knowledge?

[Trinfire]

As for this not being a safe haven any more, I have never, ever held any secrets from her. If she's still reading this, none of it should be a shock. She's upset that I'm getting advice from Internet nerds, but I'm sure some of you aren't totally nerdy!

[BetrayedH]

Nah, I don't think the affair continued as it was pretty lame and the kid was pretty obvious. ****, he called the house repeatedly trying to get ahold of me. If anything, it's an inappropriate relationship with another online person. The latest trigger that caused all this was Skype.

 

While she was in Vancouver, we were talking on the phone and she said we would Skype later. And then corrected herself to FaceTime. That was odd as we've never Skyped back and forth. She got a new ipad and when she brought it home to show me, she was showing me all the apps she installed. She was showing me the app store and the first screen was search results for Skype.

 

I told her, using the language that the counsellor told me, that I needed her to help me and I wanted her to understand that I was triggering on her use of Skype. She got upset and cried that she wasn't doing anything wrong and it's like she was living in a prison where everything she did was under scrutiny and review; leading to the trapped conversation, leading to the talk about how she was feeling.

 

She never did show me Skype at all. I continued to press and she continued to press back. She still didn't end up showing me anything on Skype - and at this point, there's no point. As far as I'm concerned, the Skype thing was non-negotiable. She could delete the app now and I'd take that as confirmation of at minimum an EA. That said, she doesn't show up as having used Skype in a looooong time. She could, of course, create another user ID and I would never know.

 

Yeah, my wife did the Skype thing, too. I didn't know for a long while into our reconciliation. When I looked, the OM was her only contact and even then she insisted it was for work stuff. Riiigghhttt. I'm not sure if they ever stop lying, bro.

[Owl]

I'm completely nerdy. In fact...you should do a look up at MY original thread here, back in 2004.

 

Same story, only it was EQ and not WoW.

 

And she never got the chance to meet with him before I figured out what was going on and took action.

 

My nerdiness and similar experience makes me a perfect resource for you to use, as it all does for everyone else here as well.

[Trinfire]

I'm not normally the negative guy here...but this time, I think I gotta be.

 

She wouldn't show you Skype, after you'd asked to see it?

 

And now she's "depressed", and loves you but not in love with you ("not as a husband")?

 

Dude...you've been on the forums, you know the red flags.

 

She's either still cheating with the same guy, or she's started a new affair with someone else.

 

Regardless...you know full well why she's acting the way she's acting.

 

The question is...what do you do now, in light of that knowledge?

 

I think she's been depressed for a long time. That much I know for sure, and it's pretty obvious.

 

As for me, I'm doing gym, food and games in the interim. All Trinfire, all the time. I have a comfortable place to stay, a fairly decent (yet crazy) support system, a new job to dive into, I'll be busy. I love my wife, again, I want to make that clear. There's no doubt in my mind on that. But I love me too.

 

HAH, it's funny - now I'm paranoid that I've interpreted anything incorrectly and am seeing it through a broken lens versus rose-coloured glasses. The Skype thing was a pretty big "Whoa Nelly" though. It was pretty inconsequential and easy to disprove my suspicions, and she went full crackers. Was it the straw that broke the camels back? Could have been definitely. I have been a warden, a gate-keeper and big brother for 3 years. Is she playing Andy Dufresne finally? Doesn't matter.

 

I am the pot of gold, not the iron bars.

[Jabba]

Update:

 

I've moved out while my wife figures out what's going on. She's severely depressed, has told me she loves me but doesn't know if it's as a husband, brother, best friend.

 

Start dating other women if you haven't already. Tell your wife it's fine that she loves you like a brother but that you're not into incest and you want to get laid.

 

 

 

Apparently that's why she's been acting strangely.

 

Well you're out and she's made it clear if she loves you there's no passion involved so it's time to move on. Start having sex with other women.

 

 

 

At this point, my preference is to just hear it's an affair versus uncertainty. She says she feels trapped so I have said "You are free to do whatever, but you will figure it out on your own."

 

Tell her you feel trapped as well by her keeping you in limbo so while she tries to figure it all out you will be having sex with other women.

 

 

 

 

We're going NC for a week. Will talk again on Saturday and figure out where to go from there. In the interim, I will be doing the usual break-up procedure of gym, food and games. I feel incredibly sad; I love my wife. I have to love me too. And I can't live with someone who doesn't know.

 

You need to start socializing with other women. Since you seem to have put a decision off for at least a week you can refrain from getting sexual but you need to start moving on.

 

 

 

She claims depression over the past year or so and I totally see that.

 

Tell her to go to the doctor and get some Prozac. There's nothing you can do about it if she won't go to the doctor.

 

 

 

It explains more of behaviours i've talked about recently: instagram, not mentioning a husband to guild friends, etc. Absolute precursors to an affair if it hasn't begun yet. Although I suppose it's not an affair if we're not together.

 

If that's what you believe then there is no impediment to you having sex with other women now that you have moved out. I wouldn't wait for next Saturday either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

She's heading into IC ASAP. Unfortunately today is a stat holiday. I'll continue my usual IC.

 

 

Whether or not she's in an affair your wife doesn't really love you anymore so it's good you moved out. But you can't let her dangle you on a string anymore. Start socializing and having sex with other women, and I wouldn't hide the fact from your wife although you don't need to rub her face in it. If she changes her mind it's up to you whether or not you want to give her a second chance, but I have the feeling it won't take you very long to find a better woman, and you won't want to give her a second chance.

[Jabba]

I think she's been depressed for a long time. That much I know for sure, and it's pretty obvious.

 

As for me, I'm doing gym, food and games in the interim. All Trinfire, all the time. I have a comfortable place to stay, a fairly decent (yet crazy) support system, a new job to dive into, I'll be busy. I love my wife, again, I want to make that clear. There's no doubt in my mind on that. But I love me too.

 

HAH, it's funny - now I'm paranoid that I've interpreted anything incorrectly and am seeing it through a broken lens versus rose-coloured glasses. The Skype thing was a pretty big "Whoa Nelly" though. It was pretty inconsequential and easy to disprove my suspicions, and she went full crackers. Was it the straw that broke the camels back? Could have been definitely. I have been a warden, a gate-keeper and big brother for 3 years. Is she playing Andy Dufresne finally? Doesn't matter.

 

I am the pot of gold, not the iron bars.

 

 

3 years of this?

 

Oh man, you need to get out of this marriage, you don't want to waste any more time with this.

[Trinfire]

LOL. Jabba, I see your solution is MORE SEX WITH OTHER WOMEN. I'm just not that kinda guy, never have been. The idea of dating again doesn't appeal right now. I don't think that's fair to the other person to be honest; let me find me and then I'll go from there.

[leonine]

 

I am the pot of gold, not the iron bars.

 

That's the perfect attitude to take. Work on yourself. Her problems are her problems and if she won't come to you to work on them together, well there's nothing you can do about that.

 

I'm sorry that you're having to go through this though. In a lot of ways, it sounded like you two were doing pretty okay all things considered. Her omission of you from social media was a flag though. I'm only on Facebook, but there are pictures of BH and I all over my page. I WANT people to know that we are together and that we're doing fun things and smiling a lot of the time.

 

Freaking out over Skype though...yeah...that sounds like a major sign that she has a secret.

[Trinfire]

That's the perfect attitude to take. Work on yourself. Her problems are her problems and if she won't come to you to work on them together, well there's nothing you can do about that.

 

I'm sorry that you're having to go through this though. In a lot of ways, it sounded like you two were doing pretty okay all things considered. Her omission of you from social media was a flag though. I'm only on Facebook, but there are pictures of BH and I all over my page. I WANT people to know that we are together and that we're doing fun things and smiling a lot of the time.

 

Freaking out over Skype though...yeah...that sounds like a major sign that she has a secret.

 

Thanks Leonine. I agree. It was on LS I read a quote about the difference between Privacy and Secrecy. Piracy is shutting the door when using the bathroom, Secrecy is taking your phone in when you do it.

[Owl]

-Omitting you from her social media

-Being "withdrawn" at times

-Periods of inaccessibility, ESPECIALLY during travel events similar to where she started her affair

-Referring to Skype by accident while on a travel trip

-Not allowing you access to her Skype account when you asked for it

 

She may have done a number of things to attempt to rebuild trust, but these are all some seriously glaring holes in that 'effort'.

 

Individually, probably not all that "stress-worthy". But taken together...AFTER having already engaged in one EA/PA? Whole different critter.

[Trinfire]

-Omitting you from her social media

-Being "withdrawn" at times

-Periods of inaccessibility, ESPECIALLY during travel events similar to where she started her affair

-Referring to Skype by accident while on a travel trip

-Not allowing you access to her Skype account when you asked for it

 

She may have done a number of things to attempt to rebuild trust, but these are all some seriously glaring holes in that 'effort'.

 

Individually, probably not all that "stress-worthy". But taken together...AFTER having already engaged in one EA/PA? Whole different critter.

 

Clarification, omitting me from one social media (Instagram). Her facebook, Photobucket, Twitter, all that stuff is full of me and her together.

 

But yes, the rest is pretty *puts finger antennaes up and twirls them around*

 

Unfortunately she isn't here to defend herself. I've definitely noticed a different person since she started the birth control.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Trinfire

[Owl]

Clarification, omitting me from one social media (Instagram). Her facebook, Photobucket, Twitter, all that stuff is full of me and her together.

 

But yes, the rest is pretty *puts finger antennaes up and twirls them around*

 

Unfortunately she isn't here to defend herself. I've definitely noticed a different person since she started the birth control.

 

Thanks for the clarification, and apologies for my misunderstanding on that. Regardless, I hope for the best possible outcome (whatever that may be) for you!

[Darren Steez]

Dude I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. Way too many people jump up and down throwing accusations left right and center.

 

What strikes me about you is you seem to have the answers to everything. You are convinced nothing is going on now, why? This is the same woman that cheated on you, took trips and "kept out of contact" during certain time frames. And yet you still ate it up.

 

And now, she tells you she doesn't know whether she loves you as a husband or brother or friend? That should have been a humongous red flag! She doesn't show you SKYPE..why? Because you can't hide your contacts on SKYPE can you, as soon as you log on there they are all your contacts front right and center.

It's almost akin to walking into your house and hearing noises from your bedroom, just as you approach the door your wife runs out, you demand to see what in your bedroom but she won't let you because she knows what you will find in there.

She deleted everything in the house, but she obviously took things underground, so essentially you've become cuckold, she getting her needs from somewhere else but has her security in you but she can't fake the emotions anymore because the pull is stronger elsewhere isn't it?

 

And you continue to accept and condone her behavior, making excuses for her. The only person you're lying to is yourself. Shame really.

[Trinfire]

Dude I've tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. Way too many people jump up and down throwing accusations left right and center.

 

What strikes me about you is you seem to have the answers to everything. You are convinced nothing is going on now, why? This is the same woman that cheated on you, took trips and "kept out of contact" during certain time frames. And yet you still ate it up.

 

And now, she tells you she doesn't know whether she loves you as a husband or brother or friend? That should have been a humongous red flag! She doesn't show you SKYPE..why? Because you can't hide your contacts on SKYPE can you, as soon as you log on there they are all your contacts front right and center.

It's almost akin to walking into your house and hearing noises from your bedroom, just as you approach the door your wife runs out, you demand to see what in your bedroom but she won't let you because she knows what you will find in there.

She deleted everything in the house, but she obviously took things underground, so essentially you've become cuckold, she getting her needs from somewhere else but has her security in you but she can't fake the emotions anymore because the pull is stronger elsewhere isn't it?

 

And you continue to accept and condone her behavior, making excuses for her. The only person you're lying to is yourself. Shame really.

 

Oh, I'm not lying to myself. I'm trying to see both sides, looking for rationale, reason, logic in the way a person behaves. Because it's my lifeline I guess. When she told me the way she felt, I felt SO happy.

 

Because things made sense. Suddenly I wasn't crazy, I wasn't paranoid, I was picking up on things that she wasn't communicating verbally. **** at this point, if she told me that she was having an affair, I'd be like "Pfft, big deal. Divorce starts tomorrow. Good luck." The affair weapon cannot hurt me at this point. It's like the stock market, uncertainty causes pain, not knowing bad news.

 

I can ask and ask and ask again if she's having an affair and it's always "no, no, no" and she usually has convincing reasons on why that's the case. I can't elucidate on them here because it's hard to put it all down into words. Individual actions though, seen through a forum dedicated to Infidelity will always be seen as infidelicious actions. The easiest solution is that it's an affair. When you hear the sounds of hoofprints, you don't assume "zebra", you assume "horse". She can prove it's a Zebra. She has given me evidence that it's not a horse, and I have seen no evidence that it is a horse. Only feelings, only conjecture. As a, I'd like to think, rational person, I don't want to make severe decisions on that conjecture.

 

At this point, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence though. The stonewalling, for example, is the clearest "proof" I need to move on.

[Owl]

I can ask and ask and ask again if she's having an affair and it's always "no, no, no" and she usually has convincing reasons on why that's the case. I can't elucidate on them here because it's hard to put it all down into words. Individual actions though, seen through a forum dedicated to Infidelity will always be seen as infidelicious actions. The easiest solution is that it's an affair. When you hear the sounds of hoofprints, you don't assume "zebra", you assume "horse". She can prove it's a Zebra. She has given me evidence that it's not a horse, and I have seen no evidence that it is a horse. Only feelings, only conjecture. As a, I'd like to think, rational person, I don't want to make severe decisions on that conjecture.

 

At this point, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence though. The stonewalling, for example, is the clearest "proof" I need to move on.

 

Well...you're not taking into account the "landscape" here. She's had an affair before. She has demonstrated to you her capability to do so...AND...now you're seeing further signs that she's at it again.

 

It's one thing to hear hoofbeats and think "horse"...if you're standing on the plains of Africa.

 

But my friend, you're standing in a pasture that's been used by local cowboys for years...spending much time worrying about whether or not you're about to get run down by a zebra seems like a poor use of energy and effort, in my book.