Author Trinfire Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 If it ever got to the point where I thought that was necessary, I think it would be better off if we separated.
Spark1111 Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Ok, after reading this thread.... Everyone processes betrayal differently and here is how I think you did it: You LOVE your wife, so went into survival mode after DDay, pulling out all the stops to reclaim her. You DID not allow yourself to fully feel the betrayal, the pain, until you had gone into hyperdrive to get her back. You succeeded, you won. It wasn't until you felt reasonably SAFE that not only had she returned to you, but had ceased all contact with the OM and was truly committed to you that you even Allowed yourself to deal with the betrayal. This is not all that unusual for competitive men....in love. Now that you are finally feeling safe, you are finally allowing all those emotions of crazy, hyper vigilant, losing my mind, post DDay emotions to hit, and since suppressed for three months, they are hitting you with full force NOW. This is not unique, but I have one question for you, one I hope you will discuss with your IC: Were you abandoned as a child? did a parent check out on you? your mom? because I explore you to examine this in therapy. You were adrenaline-rushed to reclaim her. You did. All good. But now you feel crazy and out of control. So, you needed to feel safe, have her love back, every reassurance she was back to stay, before YOU ALLOWED yourself to feel what most feel immediately after DDay. What happened in your childhood that you were able to do that? Please discuss it with your IC. Most people cannot do that, unless they have had practice from long, long ago. that is an abandonment issue: Preserve, reclaim, protect....and the allow the emotions to come. 2
Author Trinfire Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 But from what you wrote, your wife is still engaging in those juvenile interactive online games. Hey I like those games too! As an update, she read this thread on my advice, saw what people were saying and took a step back from what we were discussing and thought more about what was happening. As a result, she deleted Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, her game, her game account. It actually makes me kind of sad, I didn't want that. But she says that it's actually less she has to worry about, less drama in her life. Anyone she has to talk to, she can phone or email. She feels a little more free because of that.
Author Trinfire Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 Ok, after reading this thread.... Everyone processes betrayal differently and here is how I think you did it: You LOVE your wife, so went into survival mode after DDay, pulling out all the stops to reclaim her. You DID not allow yourself to fully feel the betrayal, the pain, until you had gone into hyperdrive to get her back. You succeeded, you won. It wasn't until you felt reasonably SAFE that not only had she returned to you, but had ceased all contact with the OM and was truly committed to you that you even Allowed yourself to deal with the betrayal. This is not all that unusual for competitive men....in love. Now that you are finally feeling safe, you are finally allowing all those emotions of crazy, hyper vigilant, losing my mind, post DDay emotions to hit, and since suppressed for three months, they are hitting you with full force NOW. This is not unique, but I have one question for you, one I hope you will discuss with your IC: Were you abandoned as a child? did a parent check out on you? your mom? because I explore you to examine this in therapy. You were adrenaline-rushed to reclaim her. You did. All good. But now you feel crazy and out of control. So, you needed to feel safe, have her love back, every reassurance she was back to stay, before YOU ALLOWED yourself to feel what most feel immediately after DDay. What happened in your childhood that you were able to do that? Please discuss it with your IC. Most people cannot do that, unless they have had practice from long, long ago. that is an abandonment issue: Preserve, reclaim, protect....and the allow the emotions to come. Thanks Spark. Actually after d-day, she did the reclaiming, not me. Love notes left all over the place, flowers sent to my office, romantic nights at a hotel, trips to San Fran, Vegas, Scotland, etc. I felt quite passive the entire time, like I deserved to be wooed. I'd say that passivity wasn't a good way to cope at all, and only now after 3 years am I comfortable enough to move forward. The IC and I discussed my childhood actually. It was a good conversation about me not wanting to show any vulnerability, being less of a man, questioning if she still loves me and why would I think otherwise. A lot of it came down to low self esteem on my part - the affair really made me feel unlovable. And the IC tried to crack my head over the fact that no one is unlovable. The paranoia she explained was a conditioned response - Pavlovian almost. I expect to get hurt so I search for the pain. My triggers were that response to trauma. And instead of dealing with the trigger, or taking responsibility for it, I was manipulating my wife and deceiving her with ways to discover 'malice'. Apparently all I had to do was say 'hey, this is crazy but I'm triggering. I know it's going to sound strange and weird and I'm a jerk for even suggesting it but I think there's someone in the room with you that you're trying to hide from me. It sounds silly but can you help me get past that?' Obviously if my wife was lying. She wouldn't find a way to help. But she always has if I've honestly asked. I just feel like a douchebag for asking after 3 years so I keep it to myself. The wife asked if I wanted to do more MC and I said that would be nice. She also asked if the counsellor suggested if she should do some IC too. The counsellor had. So, dunno peeps. I'm feeling better today. It's been a long 5 days. Mostly down but I'll be able to sleep tonight without thoughts running through my head. It's actually kind of weird for things to just 'stop'.
Author Trinfire Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 She's going to walk all over you. You're what we call a "doormat" around these parts. Fair enough. I just feel that by doing some of one things, I reduce my wife to property, a sheep to mindfully herd. I don't want that. Like I said earlier, if she wants to leave, she is more than welcome to. No kids, both have good paying jobs (she makes more money than i do), good family support on both sides, separate bank accounts. It would be a pretty quick and easy divorce. I just don't want it, and I believe she doesn't either.
BetrayedH Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Apparently all I had to do was say 'hey, this is crazy but I'm triggering. I know it's going to sound strange and weird and I'm a jerk for even suggesting it but I think there's someone in the room with you that you're trying to hide from me. It sounds silly but can you help me get past that?' I just feel like a douchebag for asking after 3 years so I keep it to myself. I did a little creative editing to your post but this ^^^ is critical for you to continue to process. Listen to your counselor about this. Stop being self-conscious about asking your wife to help deal with these triggers. Ask for a photo of where she is and who she is with when you need it. Ask for permission to investigate however you want, whenever you want, without her being notified. Your wife is smart enough to know that she caused these triggers. You're not imposing an artificial consequence on her; your hypervigilance is a NATURAL consequence. She understands that when you investigate and find nothing, you BOTH win. Please read that sentence again. You sleep well at night and she restores trust (something I bet she is desperate to do). Let her! Great move on sharing this thread with her. God, I love openness and honesty. What a great foundation. Yay! Great move on her part dealing with the social media. Yay! I am really starting to like this woman (not like that). Personally, I want you two to discuss these trips. If I remember right, we're done for 18 months? Sweet. (Sorry, there's a "but" coming). But, the healthiest place for you to land is either (1) You ALWAYS go on trips with her or (2) The trip doesn't happen. Your marriage is more important than this job. If needed, use the 18 months to save enough for you to attend. I also encourage her to post on "The Wayward Side" forum on survivinginfidelity.com and have her ask them what else she can do. The former waywards there are remarkable. You can post here; she can post there. You are both transparent but both have a relatively safe place to seek support. My $.02 for today. Great moves by both of you today.
turnera Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Hey I like those games too! As an update, she read this thread on my advice, saw what people were saying and took a step back from what we were discussing and thought more about what was happening. As a result, she deleted Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, her game, her game account. It actually makes me kind of sad, I didn't want that. But she says that it's actually less she has to worry about, less drama in her life. Anyone she has to talk to, she can phone or email. She feels a little more free because of that. I'm sure you're too young to relate to this, but when I was dating, we had televisions and landline phones. Any other activities, bonding, consorting with friends...was done in real live person. It CAN be done, and it CAN be rewarding.
Author Trinfire Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 I'm sure you're too young to relate to this, but when I was dating, we had televisions and landline phones. Any other activities, bonding, consorting with friends...was done in real live person. It CAN be done, and it CAN be rewarding. I think that's the point she's trying to make; less online, more personable. Less "internet drama".
Author Trinfire Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 I did a little creative editing to your post but this ^^^ is critical for you to continue to process. Listen to your counselor about this. Stop being self-conscious about asking your wife to help deal with these triggers. Ask for a photo of where she is and who she is with when you need it. Ask for permission to investigate however you want, whenever you want, without her being notified. Your wife is smart enough to know that she caused these triggers. You're not imposing an artificial consequence on her; your hypervigilance is a NATURAL consequence. She understands that when you investigate and find nothing, you BOTH win. Please read that sentence again. You sleep well at night and she restores trust (something I bet she is desperate to do). Let her! Great move on sharing this thread with her. God, I love openness and honesty. What a great foundation. Yay! Great move on her part dealing with the social media. Yay! I am really starting to like this woman (not like that). Personally, I want you two to discuss these trips. If I remember right, we're done for 18 months? Sweet. (Sorry, there's a "but" coming). But, the healthiest place for you to land is either (1) You ALWAYS go on trips with her or (2) The trip doesn't happen. Your marriage is more important than this job. If needed, use the 18 months to save enough for you to attend. I also encourage her to post on "The Wayward Side" forum on survivinginfidelity.com and have her ask them what else she can do. The former waywards there are remarkable. You can post here; she can post there. You are both transparent but both have a relatively safe place to seek support. My $.02 for today. Great moves by both of you today. She turned down some trips yesterday. Actually she said to me that she was going to cancel all trips but I don't think that's wise from her job perspective. And the thing is, it's not the travelling that's the trigger; it's the small 'floaty facts' around the travelling. We usually have a plan in place before she travels. Once a day phone call, once a day Facetime video chat, texts whenever possible and if someone is upset, they get attention as immediately as possible. The past couple trips weren't problems so we didn't have this planning chat before she left. I was feeling pretty good, she was feeling pretty good - we just assumed everything was going to be okay. Some small stuff had been percolating in me for the past month or so and it just kinda exploded 4 days into her 2.5 week trip. I'm actually going to visit her on Friday for the weekend, so that's going to make for a nice break. BH, this is still really tough for me to get through my thick skull: "She understands that when you investigate and find nothing, you BOTH win." mostly because I didn't understand how to ask for 'proof'. For me to take responsibility for it, tell her outright and then to phrase it so that shes' helping me is actually very comforting to both of us. As for sharing this thread with her, that was a tough decision. I know people can be pretty harsh on here and she definitely felt attacked reading some of the suggestions. But it gave her an outside perspective (Different from counselling) that showed her actions were having consequences that she hadn't considered. At any rate, last night I slept. Heavily. For the first time in a week. Feel good. 1
turnera Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 As for sharing this thread with her, that was a tough decision. I know people can be pretty harsh on here and she definitely felt attacked reading some of the suggestions. But it gave her an outside perspective (Different from counselling) that showed her actions were having consequences that she hadn't considered. That's awesome. I'm going to recommend it more often.
BetrayedH Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 That's awesome. I'm going to recommend it more often. I had a feeling it would work out in this case. The OP was pretty generous with his compliments of his wife and I don't mind being the bad guy that says her consequences could've been much worse. I think it was a healthy perspective for her (and for him). I'm glad that this has probably furthered a healthy dialogue that helps them both sleep at night.
drifter777 Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) .... We usually have a plan in place before she travels. Once a day phone call, once a day Facetime video chat, texts whenever possible and if someone is upset, they get attention as immediately as possible.... ...I'm actually going to visit her on Friday for the weekend, so that's going to make for a nice break. If I were you all the planned "reassurances" when she travels would do nothing to help rebuild trust. What I would do is travel to where she is - unannounced - and knock on her hotel door or surprise her during dinner or something like that. Finding nothing out of the ordinary would provide me with real reassurance. Making sure she understands that I could drop in on her anywhere at any time would help reassure me that she's probably not going to use her trips for cheating anymore. And if all is well then spend a romantic evening together. Is there a reason you couldn't do this? Edited January 30, 2013 by drifter777
Author Trinfire Posted January 30, 2013 Author Posted January 30, 2013 I have done that in the past, just not recently. I like to think she would be tickled pink if I did that again. Next time she's in Kelowna, I'll try that out To me, rebuilding trust involves me not feeling like I have to do that any more though.
drifter777 Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 I have done that in the past, just not recently. I like to think she would be tickled pink if I did that again. Next time she's in Kelowna, I'll try that out To me, rebuilding trust involves me not feeling like I have to do that any more though. Baby steps.
Author Trinfire Posted February 6, 2013 Author Posted February 6, 2013 Me again, with a one week update! I flew out to see her this last weekend and it was a nice, relaxing weekend. We didn't have much time, but basically cuddled for all of it. Some small issues that just led to more snuggling. It was nice. The best part was when it came time for me to leave she just held on the entire time. It was incredibly gratifying; made me felt needed and wanted in ways the phone calls and texts can't - physical closeness. I'm back home now and I'm not triggering, but I am anxious. The paranoia is creeping back in and I'm starting to think that it's actually a medical issue. A couple months back my hair started to fall out in clumps and I developed fair sized lumps on the back of my head. I was given minocycline for treatment. I've always been sensitive to medication and I'm starting to think I'm suffering from one of the rarer side effects. I should not be this paranoid about everything. I can stand in the shower and my mind starts racing about a million different things and at this point my wife is just a cog in that wheel, not a driver. The course of antibiotics is almost done so I'm hoping I go back to normal. My wife has been exceptionally patient (Although of course she's going to be patient, spouses are always patient before they leave you - THIS IS THE KIND OF THOUGHT PROCESS I HAVE, INFURIATING). It's like I can't even enjoy life without that kind of tingling at the base of my skull. I'm going to continue IC but I just want to leave it out there to people that there are medical reasons for thoughts and feelings in addition to just 'feeling crap' and it's okay to admit to a doctor/counsellor how you feel.
BetrayedH Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 Two things that come to mind: (1) Your thoughts are normal. In fact, I think they are remarkably normal for a man that's been betrayed. Many curl up into an Armadillo ball just waiting for their spouse to leave. (2) This is the last trip for at least 18 months, right? The next 18 months will tell you a lot about any real threat to your marriage.
Author Trinfire Posted February 6, 2013 Author Posted February 6, 2013 Oh believe me, I'd rather curl up in a ball. She's cancelled her next trip however this is a two day training course two weeks from now that she'll be attending. After that, no more travelling for quite some time.
Author Trinfire Posted February 6, 2013 Author Posted February 6, 2013 How much therapy do you go to? For the past 1.5 years, none. After d-day, it was MC once every two weeks for 4 months. I felt good, had moved past the affair and all that jazz. Had occasional triggers, would get upset, talk it out with the wife, have a good cry, done. It's only recently that the paranoia has become a little overwhelming. As it is now, I had my first IC session last week with the intention to go every 2-3 weeks for the next couple months.
turnera Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 Good. Ask about cognitive behavior therapy. I've heard that's good for when you want to stop all the bad thoughts that keep coming.
BetrayedH Posted February 6, 2013 Posted February 6, 2013 I've also heard good things about CBT. Otherwise, I was going to suggest weekly attendance. That was long enough between sessions for me. I started twice a week for a while.
Author Trinfire Posted February 7, 2013 Author Posted February 7, 2013 I appreciate your passion lik. It's been 3 years since D-day. She's done everything I've asked of her and more. Yes, I can be suspicious, but I shouldn't be ruled by those suspicions as I've been feeling. I'm glad you tempered your enthusiasm a little bit as you continued posting The counsellor suggested that my paranoia is a 'learned response', a little Pavlovian if you will. My brain will interpret any anxiety as 'fear my wife is leaving' anxiety. I have to learn to distinguish between the two and that's very hard. You're exactly right that something in her behaviour changed: she was forced to travel for work for 3 weeks straight. There's nothing subtle about it: I'm alone in a big house with two whiny cats. But that anxiety gets interpreted as something malicious. Fact is I've been fairly cold to her for the past year or so because of some of these issues. I've admitted as much and she's sad about that but she understands why. In fact, it's funny - if I look back at how she was treating me during her affair, I'm far colder to her now than she ever was to me (or at least as much as my fading memory of that time remembers) Now, part of that is obviously I'm a guy who's not the big "lovey dovey airy fairy" type, but the other part is I simply have my armor up. Armor that she admittedly forced me to wear. I won't be hurt again simply because I'm a different person than I was. If she walked away tomorrow, I'd be sad, but I wouldn't be devastated. And that actually makes me sadder than anything. We've both changed so much. My heart has hardened a little bit, she's become far more introverted than she used to be and she wonders why I tolerate that. She's my wife, my best friend, my lover and my confidant. But I am and have to be a great person without her before I can be a great person with her. That's what this paranoia problem is about me. Even if I wasn't with her, I don't think these feelings would disappear. I suspect that my next relationship would be tainted just the same. That's a Trinfire problem, not a Trinfire's wife problem. We had a conversation a while back where she said that I can't be anxious about her leaving because if she wanted to leave, I had no control over that. Same as if I wanted to leave, she had no control over that. She chooses to be here the same as I choose to be here. My counsellor suggested the same admittedly not as harsh.
NervisPervis Posted February 8, 2013 Posted February 8, 2013 You know, I hate to always look at the negative, but as good as all of this appears to be going, I still can't get the picuture of her hiding you from her online friends. If she's NOT doing it because she doesn't want these guys to know you're married, it's just weird. Hiding youfrom potential affair partners I understand. Otherwise...
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