Curious-One Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 There is nothing more i would like then to get married with a loving wife and raise a family for the rest of my life together. However with today's divorce rates and divorce rules that is almost impossible to imagine. Here is why!!! -First you got the 50 % divorce rate most of those started by women (i think statistic is like 80% of divorces started by women) What this means is that whenever you decide to get married weather you like it or not you are flipping a coin. This is what marriage is Heads= You get married you have kids house etc etc and then BOOOM divorce. You lose your wife , you lose half or more of your possessions, you lose your house and are forced to live in ****ty one br apartment because you cant afford anything better, you lose your kids can only see them once a week, you pay child support and alimony so you cant enjoy your life by going on trips and having hobbies, and finally even if you become more succesfull your wife requests for bigger alimony and or child support payments so there is no point in trying to be more succesful. YOUR LIFE IS COMPLETLY OVER you are emotionally and financial destroyed. Tails- You get married have kids house and wife and dont divorce. However there is no guarantee for a happy life because chances are that you will still have constant arguments, getting sex from wife will dwindel and eventually turn into 2-3 times a month if you are lucky. What worries me even more about this is that YOU WILL HAVE TO BECOME SUBMISSIVE LITTLE PUPPY ... i say this based on 95% of friend/family/and coworkers i have met that are in LTR or Married. I swear its pathetic to even see them running around their wife like little puppies making sure that they say nothing wrong , they let her make all the decisions, and they give all the better things for their wife to have (cars, cellphones, computers, laptops etc etc). Here is recent few examples of my friends family that are married or in LTR. -My married sister and her husband decided to buy a car..... he had absolutely no say in what car they get, she got to pick the car and the color. I could go on and on about how he is her little puppy but you get the point from above. -My friend who is in like 8 years LTR moves in a house with his gf. He makes 60k a year , while she makes 7.25/hr (and has 100k student loan btw). She decides that they need a $6000 sofa set and ofcourse he is not happy with that but has to cave in and get it. Oh btw the sofa set is the most uncomfortable thing ever but it does look cute according to her . -Same friend is forced to go with his wife to a cabin trip with her coworkers despite him not wanting to go because he doesnt know anyone there and because HE IS SUPPOSE TO WORK. What does he do he has to take off days from work and goes to the cabin w her for 3 days. - My other friend who is in long term realtionship hangs out with me once a month. When we hangut his gf constantly texts him and calls him. We hangout till 10 pm one time and she called him screaming at him on the phone that he needs to come home , he didnt tell me but i could hear it on the phone what she was saying because she was yelling at him. I could go on and on but this is becoming too long so ill stop.
Author Curious-One Posted January 14, 2013 Author Posted January 14, 2013 I made a thread about this last week but it devolved into chaos because too many took it as a personal attack. I am not personally attacking anyone. This is exactly what i am observing all around me. I want to throw up any time i am around a couple , either they are arguing or the guy is being the biggest little bish ever. Its like he is a little kid and the wife is the mother controlling him. Also i swear to you i am not lying. If i didnt feel bad or if it wasnt against rules i would post pics. If i go through my facebook and see the pictures of girls that are now married or in LTR you will notice their attractiveness has gone wayyy down hill. Dont even get me started on the ones that had babies , they gained fat and one -two years later they are still fat. I wish you were sitting next to me right now so i could show you this.
dreamingoftigers Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 So weird. Honestly I wonder if there is a confirmation bias in what people look for when they see marriages. There must be. The vast majority of the marriages I know are quiet. One strong exception was a former friend who married three years ago. They had been together on and off for awhile and they had two kids together. All of the signs were there. He was a gambling sex addicted guy. She was completely, unstable, lazy couldn't keep a job, lived in squalor and it got very explosive. He went up to the oil rigs. She cheated with his brother (among half a dozen others). But honestly the signs were there on a big billboard before they ever said their meaningless vows. They had a Buddhist wedding ceremony including lines about limiting and abstaining from alcohol. They everyone got loaded (they very much so LOL) She's also an alcoholic. Honestly IMHO the vast majority of people SHOW you who they are if you take the time and energy to get to know them. That isn't to say that there aren't innocent victims out there.... But it is less common than someone who decided "enh I can live with that OR he/she will change after we get married." Marriage only AMPLIFIES what is already there. If she "expects" the world before you marry her; she'll expect the Sun and Moon afterward. If she's a heavy drinker beforehand, expect her to move that into your home and it will seem like an all-day party on your couch. If she lives tidily, expect her to want and keep and tidy home. If she is responsible financially, expect her to want that in a marriage. But of course most couples today do not DISCUSS their post-marital expectations or what they SEE the other partner bringing to the table before they get married. In a society of changing roles, these things are crucial to relational success. Marriage is a very useful relational and life tool in the same way that an oven is a very useful cooking tool. If you grab a baked cake pan out of a hot oven with a bare hand, you will get burned very badly. It isn't because "ovens be life-sucking bitches and you should be afraid of them." It's because you weren't shown or didn't known how to properly own and operate one. To operate a marriage requires a careful management plan in which both parties are heard, acknowledged and both try to have their own and their partner's needs met. All while regularly fu*king. It's a tall order but the dividends of a well-managed marriage speak for themselves. I honestly think that their should be a type of optional, free relationship course that lasts a semester or two for young people in high school etc. Showing them how to be and how to screen for a partner that they are interested in. But sadly, it would probably be too controversial. So many more people than necessary will still be burning themselves on marital ovens. They be bitches after all. 4
KungFuJoe Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Lots of things in life are scary. But if you let fear keep you from the things you really want...well...you're just wasting your life away. 3
Author Curious-One Posted January 14, 2013 Author Posted January 14, 2013 (edited) dreamingoftigers You bring up good points in selecting a partner however people change. First i want to adress something. You say what i posted was weird and that you only know one couple that are not happy. Statistics dont lie 50% of marriges end in divorce its a known truth. That is very very high. Now off those 50% that are left how many of those are actually living a happy succesful life with their partners. Think about it. Moving on to my next point My cousin had the perfect wife... she cooked , cleaned, was very nice , and worked hard. She didnt even drink alcohol at all. They had 2 kids and were living happy for about 7 years. After that something changed in her and next thing you know she leaves him moves in with her coworker friend and starts the party lifestyle. When i say party lifestyle i mean sex with random guys, alcohol, and drugs. She even has a porn video my cousin found of her on the internet. Now he has to take care of the two girls by himself she didnt even want them. Also just read a thread by a guy who was in happy marrige for about 9 years. 10th year she started acting weird and eventually filed for divorce saying she doesnt feel like she loves him anymore. People change , its hard to expect how you partner is going to be 10 years from now. Edited January 14, 2013 by Curious-One
FitChick Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 You should never work because your job duties could change or you could be fired or laid off. 2
KungFuJoe Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Or buy a home in Orange County, CA because the housing market could crash leaving you upside down... oh wait...bad example. :/ 1
Quiet Storm Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Progress involves risk. I think there are things you can do to mitigate the risks of divorce: 1) choose an emotionally stable and healthy partner 2) choose a partner free of addiction 3) choose a partner that comes from a stable, two parent family 4) choose a partner that has not been physcially, sexually or emotionally abused or neglected 5) choose a partner that shares your values 6) choose someone that you are compatible with, do not choose someone based on lust or physical attraction alone. 7) choose a partner that doesn't need external validation I know some of these points are controversial, but these are the things I I will tell my kids. I married my high school sweetheart, we've been together nearly 22 years now. 2
jwi71 Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 You cant reduce the risk of "bad stuff" to zero. So minimize risk the best you can and Get about enjoying life. The alternative is to let your fear of potential "bad" from ever letting you experience all the good in life. But it's your life and you live as you see fit.
Fondue Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 I'm not one that ever plans to get married, but I believe I can add some input. Before deciding to "tie the knot," think LONG and HARD about who you are committing yourself to. If they are showing signs of things that you may not approve of, think about those issues expanding in the future. Think about their character and how they might be VERY long term. If you have doubts, don't get married to that man/woman. Also, you may try to date woman that are "foreign." Foreign born, or raised by foreign parents with foreign principals. A lot of non-american women seem to have more "traditional" values that you may find more conducive to your marriage lifestyle.
Later82012 Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 You forgot to add the cheating part where whenever they decide to hit you below the belt with the guys they keep around that are ready to offer their shoulders and penises when needed. 1
dreamingoftigers Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 I enjoy you making this a discourse about "feelings towards marriage given the risks involved" as opposed to the usual blame-assigning that tends to go on via LS. Clearly you are talking from a US perspective. Yes, your divorce rates are rather high. Highest in the world I believe (I haven't checked lately). There are also a ton of factors involved in that and who is divorcing whom. Younger marriages tend to dissolve pretty regularly. Many young men and women are sold "The American Dream" and that buy into the packaging before inspecting the product. There is another thread up about a woman who is decided to marry a guy after knowing him for 5 DAYS! including an arrangement of moving him across the country and supporting him for 2+ years. That has disaster written all over it. Globally marriage tends to fare a little better than in the US. Here in Canada, the divorce rate was 36% last time I checked and has been slowly DROPPING. This is largely due to later marriages. The average age of a first-time bride is 30. By the time one is 30, ones identity is a little more set. Often 30 year olds may not be financially stable but they know how to get there and have a plan in progress. Often 30 year olds have more relational and life experiences so they can tame some of that fight-causing reactivity that blew things up in their youth. I am 30 now and have been married for seven years this May. My marriage has bern through an incredibly tough and painful period. It was quite the learning curve. I stayed with my marriage and do not one iota regret the decision. I guess watching my parents stay together through He'll and highwaters of stress (despite their dysfunctional coping skills) set a pretty steadfast long-term template for me. I pull through life stresses fairly well. If life knocks my teeth out, I go get dentures and do Polydent commercials. It's just the way I am. I think the perspective many people come from it flawed regarding marriage, making it a scarier thing overall. My parents, for instance had a very unique circumstance with two disabled children in a province that barely recognized the struggles of such parents medically and physically and psychologically. Watching them handle outside stresses and than become accustomed to them was a childhood lesson that I never gave enough credit to. That steadfast, aggressive determination allowed me to keep a straight path on working out my own issues later when I left home. But I digress. Where I am going with this: most people have an ideal of life mapped out , including how they are going to relate to the opposite sex and so forth. Many people expect that "because we took those vows my partner will act in xyz way and we will be happy because they know and live how I am and they respect me." Well, one thing I have learned about life is not to avoid or fear obstacles but to EXPECT them. Marriage will face a ton of obstacles on it's path to survive. Just like ANY OTHER WORTHWHILE LIFE ENDEAVOUR. Lots of "life" will happen during the course of a marriage. And life affects people in many different ways. It can affect people in ways where you hoped they'd just get fat LOL. In the course of the average marriage someone is likely to do one of the following: -cheat -be abusive at some point some way -separate -be hooked on something (be it video games, alcohol, porn, musical theatre) -question their sexual identity -become very ill (cancer) -Lose their job -lose a child -have a disabled child -become mentally ill (I.e. Depression) -lose a business -Lose a home -get arrested (rightly or wrongly) -have to go back to school -gain weight -age -be related to in-laws that you can't stand -have a friend that you don't like -want a pet that you don't -be messy -have bad breath or smell -not be "in the mood." -have a religious conversion or be of a different faith. If you hit fewer things on this list, than bonus to you! I haven't experienced a lot of them but the ones I did sucked. A lot. However, most people like I said before don't plan to encounter them, so they don't bother thinking about them or discussing them or planning for them at all. That is like running a business with the plan that the clients will always bs happy and everything will simply "take care of itself" because "everyone knows their role." When you start examining these things and planning in advance for how you are going to deal with a wife who wants a $6000 dollar couch set when you have over $100k in student loans, it makes you think abOut your perspective partner's maturity level and talking to a partner about financial goals. You will most likely not come to a perfect agreement BUT so long as you are heading in the same direction, it's a better way to go. Frankly, a lot of people over the course of their life blow a gasket somewhere down the line. Humans are pretty glitchy creatures to begin with. It is easier to screen upfront for the obvious disrespect if you have a partner that is doing one thing and saying another. My husband was very upfront and honest when I met him. But he had a lot of underlying issues from childhood that blew up full force when he found out he was becoming a father unexpectedly (yes, he wanted the child, she was a surprise though). No one could've predicted that. But as long as we plan and realize that our spouses may not always act predictably and that often WE don't, it puts things into perspective. It takes strong, introspective person to draw close when necessary and back off to let their spouse deal with some things they need to do in their own. Our life experience PLUS reading the experience and knowledge of others helps us to develop that context. By the way, even thinking and considering a lot of those blank marks/red flags helps to minimize the possibilty of them happening. You are less likely to Marty a financially reckless person if you watch for clues or it early on and PARTNER WITH them instead of trying to take it over and navigate it later or leave the decisions up to them. Our generation has such a hard time "partnering" it seems. So many parents wanted to see their children become "individual success stories" they forgot to teach them the other important skill sets. It also helps to communicate to our partners what we know about ourselves and how the machinery in our heads operate. We still discover things about ourselves our whole lives. Hitching your life to someone else does have intrinsic advantages as well, not just a series of red flags. However, not all of them are easily articulateable, such as Holding your child together etc etc. The health and financial benefits are still statistically there for men. It's actually the emotional recovery that takes longer. Men who divorce often remarry on average within two years! Clearly they generally burned off of the institution. I find it rather reckless, personally and could partially explain why second marriages don't fare well. Women if they do remarry wait an average of nine years. The stats show that they often don't recover financially as well as men do. Divorce actually carries more risk to us aside from emotionally. It's interesting to consider.
dreamingoftigers Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 As a generalization, these things are very true and I fully agree with them. I also totally appreciate that even though the odds were very against myself and my husband that he and I both stayed in the game and started acquiring better marital and "being less-reactive" skills. So many people get caught up in the initial excitement of a romance that they gloss over the fact that most of their life together will be rather mundane over the long haul except for what they are both willing to put in to make it exciting with one another. Also, I would caution against marrying someone who buys into a lot of media ideals. Because that will usually lead them to be unhappy with what they have and aiming at the "Martha Stewart home" in the "Real housewives neighborhood" where we can party like it's "Jersey Shore." There is so much more that is richer in life that an ideal and the next thrill-seeking behavior. It also suggests that they may have an impulse-control problem which can easily kill any relationship. Most of us are so initially impressed by our partners that we focus on trying to impress them or keep them. We should also be evaluating a potential future with them. Progress involves risk. I think there are things you can do to mitigate the risks of divorce: 1) choose an emotionally stable and healthy partner 2) choose a partner free of addiction 3) choose a partner that comes from a stable, two parent family 4) choose a partner that has not been physcially, sexually or emotionally abused or neglected 5) choose a partner that shares your values 6) choose someone that you are compatible with, do not choose someone based on lust or physical attraction alone. 7) choose a partner that doesn't need external validation I know some of these points are controversial, but these are the things I I will tell my kids. I married my high school sweetheart, we've been together nearly 22 years now.
dreamingoftigers Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 You forgot to add the cheating part where whenever they decide to hit you below the belt with the guys they keep around that are ready to offer their shoulders and penises when needed. Dammit, where did I put that spare shoulder and penis set? I checked under the bed to no avail. Has anyone seen my spare shoulder and penis set? Oh man! I better be nice to my husband until I find it!
Later82012 Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 Progress involves risk. I think there are things you can do to mitigate the risks of divorce: 1) choose an emotionally stable and healthy partner 2) choose a partner free of addiction 3) choose a partner that comes from a stable, two parent family 4) choose a partner that has not been physcially, sexually or emotionally abused or neglected 5) choose a partner that shares your values 6) choose someone that you are compatible with, do not choose someone based on lust or physical attraction alone. 7) choose a partner that doesn't need external validation I know some of these points are controversial, but these are the things I I will tell my kids. I married my high school sweetheart, we've been together nearly 22 years now. I doubt there would be anybody left to choose from these days after all these.
dreamingoftigers Posted January 14, 2013 Posted January 14, 2013 I doubt there would be anybody left to choose from these days after all these. Actually they tend to come all in the same package. Usually emotionally-healthy people come from emotionally healthy environments. So if someone has an addiction, there is usually an historic slant to it that knocks a few of the other criteria off of the list (i.e. external validation, having never been abused or not having a loving family) Generally when someone is taken care of in a stable, loving manner during childhood, they generally are able to take care of themselves while older ( and no how to care for someone) therefore they make better and more understanding partners. This is not to say that those lacking that supportive history are bereft of hope. But often most of us take our childhoods and family patterns as a given norm. I knew from the time I left home in my teens that my family must have had some affect on me. Turns out it was a massive one. Fortunately I was also a reader. I managed to figure out at twenty that my father was not only an "adult child of alcoholics" but that he was an alcoholic himself. Thereby making me an "adult child" of one. Thus began the fun journey. I immediately cut alcohol out of my life due to the obvious predisposition and the fact that the patterns that come with it are harmful. I also cut out other addictive substances. In my naive youth. I thought that would be enough. Cut out the substance and join a community that could substitute for family stability. I thought the same thing when I met my husband. He quit drinking the week I met him. Problem solved. Right? Nope. Honestly, if someone is missing the factors on the list QS posted. It is very important to at the VERY LEAST recognize what these factors predispose you to in how it can affect your relationships. Who will you attract and who will you be attracted to? It's a hard way to look at oneself and young people either don't know to do it OR they put it off until much later in life when things are crumbling. I believe it to be necessary in youth even, maybe even moreso. Glad that even though some lessons came harshly and after marriage that I had somewhat of a jumpstart in realizing that changing behaviours had a net effect on my self-esteem and the structure of a marriage. Men often credit themselves with being more rational than women (although, it has been proven that neither gender is actually better at reasoning than the other when all factors have been adjusted for. Women are often socialized into romanticism and the "follow your heart and ignore your mind" fairytale BS. I am not the girl you wish to watch a romantic comedy with if that is your thing. My goodness, those relationships have horribly unhealthy starts to them.) However men often overlook a woman's other traits in favor of the physical. Or they hold an unreasonable fear that women are trying to "trap and control" them. Same as women overlooking a man's actions for what he tells her. Often these these are inherently emotional and instinctual responses. For a marriage or any LTR to survive, one must realize that there is much more to the picture than the short-term pleasure that a partner provides. That's why partner selection AND self-work to provide stability for a partner is so important. It would also serve to minimize the items on the "sh*t list of stuff that could happen" in the course of life. 1
M30USA Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 This is a meaningless thing to argue. The women who say you're being ridiculous are the ones who believe they are entitled to 1/2 of your possessions, the house, the children, and child support. Their assumption at the outset is that it's all THEIRS to begin with. This is why argument is futile. There's a reason why you always hear about the stereotypical woman who is eager to marry and the man who is shying away. It's because women have everything to gain and nothing to lose; men have nothing to gain and everything to lose. It's simple human nature to want power. Whatever you might say about women being mistreated in the past, the fact is that women have the power in marriage today. And human nature states that people don't want to relinquish power. They don't want to give it up so they deny its even there. Here is a perfect example of what PROVES this: A woman divorces her husband, gets primary custody and all the goods that women typically get. One of her beloved children is a son. He grows up, gets married, then divorced, and then suddenly all of her prior beliefs suddenly do a complete 180 when she sees the unfairness in the court system when her perfectly good son (who is a good father) only gets to see his kids a few times a month, loses his house, and gives up 50% of all he owns. Suddenly it hits home and she realizes her bias was there along along (assuming she is honest with herself).
Author Curious-One Posted January 15, 2013 Author Posted January 15, 2013 Would you look at this gem right here Another beautiful reason why i dont want to get married http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/367637-i-want-out-my-marriage-because-i-feel-nothing-my-husband-anymore Poor husband and poor 6 year old girl. As you see husband is trying to fight for his wife but she just wants to be "free" .
Later82012 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Actually they tend to come all in the same package. That's what I meant. I'd rather go and try finding a needle in a haystack than finding an individual that doesn't have any of these issues.
Nyla Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Lots of things in life are scary. But if you let fear keep you from the things you really want...well...you're just wasting your life away. This. I would also like to add that a couple makes their marriage what it is. So if you see couples where it appears that the man is too submissive for your taste, it is because that is the dynamic that the couple has made for themselves. Like so many other things in life, the type of marriage a couple has is a choice. If you meet the right woman, perhaps the two of you can decide to negotiate on important matters. Neither the husband or the wife should get their own way all the time. You don't know the whole story because you are are on the outside looking in. I wonder if you think it is okay for a woman to be a submissive little puppy, because you don't acknowledge that the wife has likely has to make sacrifices as well. Marriage is about compromise and perhaps the husbands that you believe are too submissive have been too dominant in the past. 1
rajcs25 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 I wish i would have seen your thread before i got married. Right now i earn and my wife spends. She told me i will pay rent and all expenses and she will save her money she earns in a private account. Isnt it ridiculous. She does not let me drink beer and go out with my friends She does not let me visit any relatives' place, even though i ask her she can of course accompany. She has demands of cell phone, car, house etc. etc.. She tells me we are having a degraded life(Even THough 100% of her paycheck is saved and all expenses are taken care of). And a lot more..................................................... Every day is like hell I am not personally attacking anyone. This is exactly what i am observing all around me. I want to throw up any time i am around a couple , either they are arguing or the guy is being the biggest little bish ever. Its like he is a little kid and the wife is the mother controlling him. Also i swear to you i am not lying. If i didnt feel bad or if it wasnt against rules i would post pics. If i go through my facebook and see the pictures of girls that are now married or in LTR you will notice their attractiveness has gone wayyy down hill. Dont even get me started on the ones that had babies , they gained fat and one -two years later they are still fat. I wish you were sitting next to me right now so i could show you this. 1
Author Curious-One Posted January 15, 2013 Author Posted January 15, 2013 I wish i would have seen your thread before i got married. Right now i earn and my wife spends. She told me i will pay rent and all expenses and she will save her money she earns in a private account. Isnt it ridiculous. She does not let me drink beer and go out with my friends She does not let me visit any relatives' place, even though i ask her she can of course accompany. She has demands of cell phone, car, house etc. etc.. She tells me we are having a degraded life(Even THough 100% of her paycheck is saved and all expenses are taken care of). And a lot more..................................................... Every day is like hell Thats very sad to hear. Can you be more specific , is it a joint account that she is saving all the money in. Even worse is it a off shore account or something? The way you described it seems almost like she has you as a hostage and the only thing she is doing is draining you of your funds. Props for you on being honest man, i notice this all around me and most guys are not men enough to admit what you just did. Anytime i ask my friends how is the married life their response is always and i mean always "it has its ups and downs". I have never heard one say it is awesome or its hell. Try sit down with her and explain everything she is doing to you and see if she is willing for things to change. If she gets defensive and starts yelling or doesnt want to change then you will need to get away from that women. Its not a healthy life bro.
rajcs25 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 It is her private accounts. She is multiple accounts. Some even offshore. She sends money to offshore accounts too and saves some here. I agree it is not healthy life and it has started taking toll already. I explained her that we have to share accounts she refused, i explained her thats how everyone does, she disagrees, i showed her examples, she argues and says 'Its my way or divorce'. I am temporarily just going with the flow trying to find better ways and thinking what are my alternatives in life to deal with society after that At some point i think i should start telling this 'society' at this point. The talks would definitely reach to her and she could feel guilty and change(very little chances) or she would call everything off. She is taking advantages of my kindness and the fact that i am ashamed of having divorce again. I was already divorced earlier and so was she. She is a shamelss women, but she knows i come from a reputable family and would not be willing to divorce again. She takes advantage of this and until i am not prepared, i have to go through this crazy injustice. And this is one thing. I bear many more atrocities from her Thats very sad to hear. Can you be more specific , is it a joint account that she is saving all the money in. Even worse is it a off shore account or something? The way you described it seems almost like she has you as a hostage and the only thing she is doing is draining you of your funds. Props for you on being honest man, i notice this all around me and most guys are not men enough to admit what you just did. Anytime i ask my friends how is the married life their response is always and i mean always "it has its ups and downs". I have never heard one say it is awesome or its hell. Try sit down with her and explain everything she is doing to you and see if she is willing for things to change. If she gets defensive and starts yelling or doesnt want to change then you will need to get away from that women. Its not a healthy life bro.
rajcs25 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 I agree with you on this.. [quote I see no point in marriage these days.
dreamingoftigers Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 This is a meaningless thing to argue. The women who say you're being ridiculous are the ones who believe they are entitled to 1/2 of your possessions, the house, the children, and child support. Their assumption at the outset is that it's all THEIRS to begin with. This is why argument is futile. There's a reason why you always hear about the stereotypical woman who is eager to marry and the man who is shying away. It's because women have everything to gain and nothing to lose; men have nothing to gain and everything to lose. It's simple human nature to want power. Whatever you might say about women being mistreated in the past, the fact is that women have the power in marriage today. And human nature states that people don't want to relinquish power. They don't want to give it up so they deny its even there. Here is a perfect example of what PROVES this: A woman divorces her husband, gets primary custody and all the goods that women typically get. One of her beloved children is a son. He grows up, gets married, then divorced, and then suddenly all of her prior beliefs suddenly do a complete 180 when she sees the unfairness in the court system when her perfectly good son (who is a good father) only gets to see his kids a few times a month, loses his house, and gives up 50% of all he owns. Suddenly it hits home and she realizes her bias was there along along (assuming she is honest with herself). I have been the breadwinner for the majority of my marriage. I still am. My husband is a full time student who is funded for $837.00 a month. That is not enough to cover what would be his half of expenses, much less any support for our daughter. I work on top of being funded full-time as well because he has ADD and has been out of school longer than me. He is on a reduced courseload and will finish school two semesters behind me for UPGRADING ALONE. So even though I technically "produce" more in our marriage, I know that he needs the extra time, effort and energy to put into his studies. I am, in fact very proud of him as my mate despite our somewhat punctuated and unstable history. I am proud that he continues to stay in the game and fight with the same determination that I married into. When my husband is determined he accomplishes things that men with twice the advantages do. Many people would have quit studies by now and tried to either apprentice or go up to the oil fields where there are more easier-money opportunities. He prefers something long-term and to have an education and model that for his daughter. My vagina (as exciting as it is) has not overshadowed my dedication to PARTNERING with my husband over the long term. I find it personally insulting that because I was born with a certain set of body parts and some subtly different neural connections that I am predestined to be a controlling spouse or that I must naturally (this day and age) hold all of the cards to manipulate him. I even find it insulting that you, who doesn't intimately know every marriage in the world would automatically be able to suggest that my husband could be easily manipulated by me. He's a better man than that. Frankly, he doesn't take anyone's sh*t. Another reason I married him. He looked my father right in the face the night we announced our engagement and told him straight-up that he was not going to be intimidated into leaving me and that my father might as well give up now. If we split, there aren't much for assets but there would probably be spousal support for him. I know two women in my personal circle, one whom was physically domestically abused who have to continue to pay spousal support. The one who was badly abused has to pay quite a chunk because he hadn't worked in ten years when she finally split. As for child support and access: I know 110% where I stand on that because I had to go down that road with him last year. If he is hooked on anything, I fight for sole custody. However, if he is hooked on anything, I am no fool. He won't pay a dime for her, his money floats into whatever selfish pursuit erupts because that is what he is like when he is in active addiction. If he ends up back in active addiction EVER again, that WILL be the end of us and the end of custody of his daughter. Luckily, he's not a stupid man and the consequences for him last year were a genuine wake-up call. I knew that he couldn't see them beforehand. Hence my very forgiving nature toward him. Unfortunately his previous lifestyle and childhood did not prepare him for the consequences of addiction so now armed with that knowledge, I sincerely believe he will not return to it. Aside from that, custody would be 50-50% with our daughter remaining in a stable residence and the two of us cycling in and out of that location on alternating days or chunks of days. We had an arrangement like this before he went into active addiction during our separation. We are both 100% dedicated to the well-being of our daughter and I feel no need or desire to split the two apart. It is also highly unlikely that my province would consider that a likely option. My husband has let me know that he would fight for her if need be. I hope he damn well would if I had an attack of bitchitis. But I won't, so if we were to separate, he shouldn't have to. In fact, when he was suspended from visiting her, I fought for his access and brought her his tablet so that they could record messages to each other. This was when our marital situation was at it's WORST. My daughter loves her father and he loves her dearly. I will not use my child as a way to punish my husband for his transgressions toward me. I will not degrade myself, punish an adult man or cause permanent damage to my child because "I am mad." I am not a dog, I didn't need to bark every time he came up the walk. Perhaps he saw those characteristics in me when we met. I know that I saw a lot I liked when I got to know him a bit better. Maybe that is why he so determinedly pursued *me* to marry *him.* And that same determination got me to say yes to his proposal after being with him 3 short months and married at the one year mark. With no regrets on that front except for maybe wishing I had been to therapy prior to marrying as well as knowing more about addiction. Things could have gone a lot smoother if I had when he hit the wall. I would hope that as we progress as people in society living and mixing with one another in this great information age, that we continue to see people more as patterns of neuro function, history and behaviour. That should trump plenty of other discriminatory factors: race, age, gender, orientation, etc. It's a pretty safe bet that there are a whole spectrum of people within one group. I sympathize with what happened to you M30USA. But it is categorically unfair and well, rather disgusting to me that your own personal anecdote become a form of "proof" and certainty for everyone else, including myself. Even when my husband trashed our place in a drunken rage, I did not attack him physically or call him a bunch of names (even though he was calling me stuff that shocked me). I withdrew our daughter and asked him to leave. He refused. The police were called. They could not remove him as both of our names were on the lease and he was in his own home smashing his own stuff because we were legally married. Even though he was destroying personal items of mine. He told me he would leave only if I gave him the grocery money to go to a hotel room. I refused. The police left. He went outside in the front and screamed at me a whole bunch of names because I took our daughter out of the house when he was loaded. Well, then he picked up his phone, called the police because "he wasn't wrong and I was a bitch." Well, the police don't like it when they tell loudmouth drunk to settle down and go to bed and they come back to him screaming in front of the house, now sitting in the family car making a ruckus for the neighbours in his sock feet ALL WHILE calling the police again on HIMSELF. Drunk tank. And then he disappeared for about 3 months. I don't prefer to be looked at as having "nothing to lose" and that his stuff was "all mine." I lost my best friend and partner to an addiction that was eating him alive and going to lose him his daughter if he didn't stop. Pretty soon it wasn't his choice. Because of my husband's actions and instability, CPS intervened. It was quite sad for both husband and daughter. Your wife was not me and I am not your former wife. She physically attacked you and went to jail. She tried to angle the system and you had to fight for your children. Did you not win? I thought that you had. I don't fit under your umbrella or in your tiny "gender idea-box." Don't bother flattering me by accusing me of either "lying" or being "the exception." Although I doubt there is a clone of me floating about, I know women that are steadfast and understanding partners that take the long view on marriage and love. Why exactly do you think that relationship books are largely marketed to us? We care about them. We care about marriages and families and our husbands. In general we actually do. Often we can't quite see how your minds and hearts work. I can strongly assure that that is mutual. That in and of itself does not mean "desire to manipulate and control." It means we have to learn about one another. It means that we need hard and fast social norms on acceptable and beneficial ways to treat one another. I'm sorry that your youthful choice did not work out in an acceptable or tolerable way. I don't deny that there is risk involved in marriage. To deny that would be blindingly naive. What I do deny is that one gender is shielded from the pain and suffering of a dysfunctional marriage and the fallout from one. I think that even on a basic level of reasoning that is nothing short of ridiculous. But in retrospect I have considered the above quote. In the case of a divorce I will go after my husband's pre-marital assets. I hope in return that he doesn't chase me for mine. I had some savings, a car and a few trinkets worth a bit. However I just cannot fathom a post-divorce life without half of his backpack. :laugh:
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