Bitter betrayed spouses.

[freestyle]

Calling someone "bitter" in a derogatory, or discrediting manner, after they've been through horrific emotional abuse ,

 

(and yes, IMO---cheating DOES fall into the emotional abuse category, it's the ultimate slap in the face/heart)

Is kinda like criticizing someone for having a bruise, after they've been slapped.

 

It's like criticizing someone for being soggy, after they've been pissed on.

 

It's like criticizing someone for being covered in tire tracks, after they've been thrown under a bus.

 

It's like criticizing a plant for being wilted, after extensive neglect.

 

It comes across to me ,that those who bandy about the term, "bitter" to invalidate someone's position, aren't taking the time to consider basic cause & effect.

 

Also--If I advise someone considering becoming involved in an affair, against it---(by pointing out the potential fallout for all parties involved)

I don't see how that constitutes an "attack".

 

I actually have done as much, IRL--I tried to shine a light on the path one of my friends was about to head down, I warned her about how much devastation would happen in two households, if she pursued a MM. That wasn't attacking, I merely pointed out cause & effect.

 

(FTR--she didn't listen, and is still dealing with far-reaching fallout, two years later)

 

Is my point of view colored by my experience of being betrayed?

Absolutely.

Does that invalidate, or devalue my input?

I don't think so.

[Decorative]

I get so tired of people saying that there had to have been something missing or wrong with the marriage for the cheating partner to have cheated! There was nothing wrong or missing in my marriage. There was nothing wrong or missing in my wifes treatment of me or my marriage! What was missing was within me and my boundary code. It had nada to do with my wife, my parents, my church or the damn dog next door. It was me. My choice. My decision. No one shoved me into it but myself. Pun intended.

 

I think you and my husband would get along well. That is exactly what he says.

[Realist3]

I get so tired of people saying that there had to have been something missing or wrong with the marriage for the cheating partner to have cheated! There was nothing wrong or missing in my marriage. There was nothing wrong or missing in my wifes treatment of me or my marriage! What was missing was within me and my boundary code. It had nada to do with my wife, my parents, my church or the damn dog next door. It was me. My choice. My decision. No one shoved me into it but myself. Pun intended.

 

 

You do realize that often times there is something wrong. Just because yours didn't doesn't make your situation the rule. So, I'm not sure why you are tired.

[dreamingoftigers]

I get so tired of people saying that there had to have been something missing or wrong with the marriage for the cheating partner to have cheated! There was nothing wrong or missing in my marriage. There was nothing wrong or missing in my wifes treatment of me or my marriage! What was missing was within me and my boundary code. It had nada to do with my wife, my parents, my church or the damn dog next door. It was me. My choice. My decision. No one shoved me into it but myself. Pun intended.

 

I have always loved how you took full responsibility and admission in you LS posts. I'm glad that you and your wife are on good footing.

 

My father was an alcoholic. I say "was" because we don't really hang on the weekends so I don't know if he quit. I know he claimed to before but who knows. He's the reason I don't have voicemail. LOL.

 

Anyhow. He used to blame it on various things. Youngest I remember was work stress, than "kids", than specifically my autistic brother, than my autistic sister and then me and my disappointing self. Then my brothers brain injury.

And than the Vietnam War that he WAS NEVER IN. (don't ask, just don't)

 

Anyhow, his parents were alcoholics. His EIGHT siblings were alcoholics. And really bad fighter crazy types too. They've ALL lost their marriages ( one had six wives since we least heard!) except for one younger brother and my father. Fighting and drinking. All eight. If that doesn't scream "family of origin issues!" I don't know what does.

 

I am firmly, firmly convinced that my father's drinking problem had NOTHING to do with work stress, me, my brother, my sister, musical theatre (well, maybe) or the Vietnam War THAT HE WASN'T IN!

 

I am pretty firmly convinced that he learned it as a coping mechanism in the same place that the rest of his siblings did. Yes certain environments or circumstances probably make it "better" or "worse." But this is the man who for months refused to attend my wedding and said to me verbatim, multiple times that he "didn't care about it." and wanted my mother to stop telling him to go. (I wasn't really excited to have him there either especially after he told me he was bringing his own booze anyway, arg. Into a Mormon Church, like, really?)

 

Anyhow, when I see this "blame the BS stuff" floating around I think, yeah if I was an alcoholic like my Dad and my spouse was bringing home six-packs and bottles of Brandy then yeah, that would be contributing to the problem BUT I would be damned if I didn't tell my spouse where I stand on that when I'm trying to quit. However, when you see an alcoholic pretending they aren't one at all and that they "never drink" or "it isn't a problem" and than they get loaded and their spouse suspects that their staggering on the front lawn is a pretty sure sign of drunkenness. I mean, hello! Who did the drinking?

 

In case one, I see some culpability there. If a spouse is letting your clearly concisely know that there is an issue and you just keep going on it, then yeah you had SOME influence but if I were an alcoholic who TRULY DEEPLY didn't want to drink or have that as part of my identity, I might have to give my spouse the boot before they literally aid me on killing myself with booze.

 

In case two, come on! who's fault is that? Who's choice 150%!?

 

Lying and sneaking is a no-brainer to my 3 year old! An adult WS knows better and trying to transfer that onto their BS is just another "blame the victim" game for those who don't realize their own personal power.

 

How do I know? I was diagnosed BPD and before trauma therapy I thought everyone was supposed to take care of my feelings because I saw that growing up. You either "cared" or got "cared for." those were the two sides of the coin. Well, really, healthy people care for themselves first and then care got those closest and keep the lines of communication open!

 

Not cheating on a spouse is actually a form of self-care. Who's to blame if you don't brush your hair or teeth? The same person that is to blame when you cheat on your spouse.....

[BetrayedH]

Oh, yes. Of COURSE the sneaky WS laid out all these obvious clues! How COULD a BS be SO incredibly stupid to "ignore" them.

 

(Raises hand) Pick me! Pick me!

 

Because the WS was a freaking conflict avoider and a liar for whom nothing and no one would ever be enough.

[nofool4u]

you can be bitter for a while if you cant be something else.

but its not healthy for you. so its better too work on it and be free

 

Problem is, cheaters, especially those who are unremorseful, like to throw the word around to people who simply have a problem with people like them that hurt others and cheat.

 

One need not be bitter to see that what someone else is doing is disgusting.

 

Now, I'd be bitter if the way I interact with future ladies was changed dramatically. For example, because I was cheated on in my marriage, if I am simply cynical and completely untrusting of a woman from the get go, then yes, then I'd be bitter. Do note this is much different from being cautious and wanting to take things slowly.

 

So if I were truly bitter, it would detrimentally affect the way I interact with women on the dating scene.

 

We are simply bitter in here to some because they can't handle the truth.

[Furious]

Exactly. And why is that? Could it be that the blindsided BS wasn't paying attention? I've seen VERY few BS's who will even entertain that idea, much less take a closer look at the fact that it takes two to make a successful M -

 

I should have seen the signs in hindsight

 

He started wearing white shoes, tight opened necked shirts and wearing thick gold chains, he left notes all around the house and even on the bathroom mirror saying that he was cheating on me and it was my fault... he also begged me to go to marriage counseling nearly everyday.

 

yup... I was blindsided, I liked his new look...especially the gold chains, I thought the notes were cute and funny and the marriage counseling just cracked me up...he always had a great sense of humor.

 

Now that we're reconciling, I now know what the signs of cheating are, and will never again let white shoes and gold chains fool me.

[Decorative]

I should have seen the signs in hindsight

 

He started wearing white shoes, tight opened necked shirts and wearing thick gold chains, he left notes all around the house and even on the bathroom mirror saying that he was cheating on me and it was my fault... he also begged me to go to marriage counseling nearly everyday.

 

yup... I was blindsided, I liked his new look...especially the gold chains, I thought the notes were cute and funny and the marriage counseling just cracked me up...he always had a great sense of humor.

 

Now that we're reconciling, I now know what the signs of cheating are, and will never again let white shoes and gold chains fool me.

 

Dude. Now John Travolta will be a trigger.

 

LOL

 

#stayingalivestayingalive

[dreamingoftigers]

I am a former wayward who came to LS awhile back in an extremely weak, vulnerable stage seeking advice and help. I got a little from some very nice, thoughtful posters who took the time to help me, but I got a LOT of abuse. I'm sure many might think it was deserved, but it felt a lot like people were using me as a way just to vent their pain. I really think abusing people just to vent pain should make people stop and think, and "bitter" is actually kind of a nice label for those type of people. There is a reason why there aren't many waywards on this site, which is too bad.

 

If this is a just a BS support group then call for it for what it is. If you really want to have discussions about infidelity and get a variety of perspectives, then try to put a collective stop to running waywards off, especially those who really want to change their lives.

 

I for one, am a person who wanted to take responsibility for my bad choices and needed some guidance. Sometimes that might be cold hard truth but it doesn't need to be verbal abuse about every fiber of my being.

 

Okay I noticed this and it seemed to get passed over.

 

It's been around nine months since this thread went up and I think you may want to reread it.

 

Many, many posters chimed in trying to be helpful.

 

I went through the WHOLE thread and I can pretty safely say that overall you could've picked and chosen pretty freely to answer and respond to the cast majority of posters with helpful, "non-abusive" posts.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/317240-my-story-7.html

 

If you have a look back. You disagreed with Black Jack's opinion of custody and then you started insulting him.

 

As well, the first ignorant post on your thread was.....wait for it.... stantall. In fact, his first, second, third and fourth posts were. He mentioned "he warned you" about the bitterness he was the first one and prevalent for awhile being rude.

 

At least he's "equal opportunity"

 

One of the other posters you took issue with was NoFool4U whom you chose to engage multiple times. Yeah, his presentation is different than I would offer up. I'm sure he's cool with that etc.

 

Stopdropandroll said one snide thing about morals and your kids after many of your own posts insulting "bitterness etc etc etc"

 

And talking about how we must all be enjoying this etc etc.

 

Did you read the rest, at all?

It really seems like the harsh stuff got blown up from 2 heavy handed posters and one who isn't a BS at all.

 

I saw A LOT of deflecting and minimizing and very little commitment and heavy resistance to changing anything.

 

The only thing (that MANY congratulated you on) was that you were "trying" NC with OM of 4 years. (by the way, you were verbally abusive to BS as a whole in that thread, did you notice?)

 

My question to you is this: since we can't personally moderate the tone of two posters on all threads all if the time for if they are going to dispense inna way that could hurt you..... How, exactly does one address you and talk to you about your issues that you presented over here to US?

 

BS posters in general aren't going to avoid mentioning the consequences of your actions AND what you CAN DO and what in their opinion would be the best for your family given what you've told us AND how you are seemingly wanting to deflect and avoid the mess at hand.

 

Your issues weren't about "this board" or "bitter people." To me, IMHO, that looked like a scapegoat. And if you read your thread for assigning blame, you pay quick lip service to you being responsible and then go right back to blaming everyone else in your life, including your pastor.

 

He didn't make you cheat and he didn't abuse you.

 

No one here made you cheat and yes, there were A COUPLE rude posters, one of whom isn't a BS at all!

[Realist3]

I am a former wayward who came to LS awhile back in an extremely weak, vulnerable stage seeking advice and help. I got a little from some very nice, thoughtful posters who took the time to help me, but I got a LOT of abuse. I'm sure many might think it was deserved, but it felt a lot like people were using me as a way just to vent their pain. I really think abusing people just to vent pain should make people stop and think, and "bitter" is actually kind of a nice label for those type of people. There is a reason why there aren't many waywards on this site, which is too bad.

 

If this is a just a BS support group then call for it for what it is. If you really want to have discussions about infidelity and get a variety of perspectives, then try to put a collective stop to running waywards off, especially those who really want to change their lives.

 

I for one, am a person who wanted to take responsibility for my bad choices and needed some guidance. Sometimes that might be cold hard truth but it doesn't need to be verbal abuse about every fiber of my being.

 

 

Great post. One I hope everyone will read.

[Spark1111]

(Raises hand) Pick me! Pick me!

 

Because the WS was a freaking conflict avoider and a liar for whom nothing and no one would ever be enough.

 

And you WILL see that pattern continue.

[dreamingoftigers]

Oh, put a sock in it, Black Jack. You are clearly a very bitter person (e.g., your signature line) and have no idea what you are talking about (custody, etc.). Yes, you are right in that H is a perfect person and I am a cheating crackwhore and there is no room for relationship issues outside of infidelity.

 

I doubt you (and some others) even read the posts- you see the word "cheater" and you smell fresh blood. I hope you enjoyed your vents at my expense.

 

I am sure this paragraph will inspire quite a bit of abuse but it is helpful for me to type out anyway.

 

I will say I find it ironic that NoFool4U spent about 4 posts "crucifying" me (bad pun) over affairs and how I would steal my kids away from their father (clearly didn't read what I wrote) and then questions why the church would

want to excommunicate me for said offense. You depict me to be the whore of Babylon

 

So here, more fresh blood to circle about!.

 

I deleted only the parts that weren't relevant to the "here's how we get insulted as BSs bit." It's pretty common. if you go through the whole thread bit by bit there's a lot of "you make me out to be the bad guy" stuff. She's got a thing about "fresh blood" that repeats a couple times. I'm hoping that it was because Twilight was so popular around then and not because she really believes we've got sone sort of "cheater-vampire" relationship we're all aiming for.

 

a wasteland of bitterness.

 

That was already pretty much addressed that the term bitter is not intended to be an insult, just an observation of the mood. The fact that some present a bitter mood in their posts, is what it is. Like was already stated people have every right to be how they want to be, but it doesn't change what it is.

 

Really? This is not the only poster who posts like this, it's practically a fad among WS/OP! The "you guys are just so mean and bitter!"

 

Do you hear it? I know that you are WS Realist, but do you hear that blameshift just smoothly slide across the floor when any BS or what have you hits that trigger, and than WE ALL get the shot?

 

Btw, nofool4u spent at least a few posts saying: "good for you for not screwing your H on custody!" and she still ran with it.

 

Really? It's a "wasteland of bitterness" when multiple posters come to help, and then one gets ignorant and THAT VERY ONE says "I warned ya!" who isn't even a BS. And then engaging back and forth with one she doesn't really like until she goes passive-aggressive. Then that brings up one post?

 

Wasteland? Of bitterness? In the middle of an Ocean of Help?

[dreamingoftigers]

By the way, that's not a one-off. That's the NORM. that's why this thread exists and has gotten so long. (plus I am long-winded and have been following it for awhile)

 

I am not going digging on more threads now. Or probably later because I've spent too much time on here today anyhow. (maybe a couple more posts, LOL.)

 

But that is a pretty universal example (aside from the blood thing, that's just a little weird.)

[dreamingoftigers]

 

I remember on evening I was staying in the hospital with my daughter, and I called hoe to say hello and see how my husband and other two kids were doing...they were in bed.

 

OMG.... IT WAS A SIGN!

 

You missed it! :lmao:

[Act Two]

"I started a thread once enquiring how many miserable WSs begged their spouse to go to IC and MC in an effort to fix the marriage before embarking on the affair.

 

you know how many?

 

Not a single one."

 

That's because most of the WS do not feel safe posting here.

 

Guess what? I did. For TEN years. My marriage ran into trouble on month two of marriage and I begged, pleaded cried, started fights, nagged, went to counseling, asked H to go to counseling, etc. before beginning an affair.

 

He did not get help for his problem and to this day has not done the work in IC.

[waterwoman]

Right, well.... anyhoo..... let's all be happy, hold hands and play nicely children

 

I think it's quite simple. Someone is hurt, very hurt, maybe more hurt than they have ever been before, and they told off here for being bitter. I just think that is really crass and unneccesary. For me it felt so absurdly unfair. There I was minding my own business, dealing with life, the universe and everything, not brilliantly but doing OK, and for some reason H yanked my feet from under me. Then when I complained and searched for reasons and answers whilst trying to get up off the floor, I found a forum where people in my position are insulted for being upset and not just 'dealing with it'. FFS I had just found out, I was still bleeding from the grazes on my knees and my nose was still pouring blood, and I was supposed to just move one and stop whingeing? OK, most people were very kind and supportive but it didn't take much reading to find posts that were quite generally quite aggressive towards BS and implied that genuine hurt was bitterness.

 

But hey..... I have learned a lot from LS and will be eternally grateful even if the lessons stung more than they perhaps needed to,

[Act Two]

I deleted only the parts that weren't relevant to the "here's how we get insulted as BSs bit." It's pretty common. if you go through the whole thread bit by bit there's a lot of "you make me out to be the bad guy" stuff. She's got a thing about "fresh blood" that repeats a couple times. I'm hoping that it was because Twilight was so popular around then and not because she really believes we've got sone sort of "cheater-vampire" relationship we're all aiming for.

 

 

 

 

 

Really? This is not the only poster who posts like this, it's practically a fad among WS/OP! The "you guys are just so mean and bitter!"

 

Do you hear it? I know that you are WS Realist, but do you hear that blameshift just smoothly slide across the floor when any BS or what have you hits that trigger, and than WE ALL get the shot?

 

Btw, nofool4u spent at least a few posts saying: "good for you for not screwing your H on custody!" and she still ran with it.

 

Really? It's a "wasteland of bitterness" when multiple posters come to help, and then one gets ignorant and THAT VERY ONE says "I warned ya!" who isn't even a BS. And then engaging back and forth with one she doesn't really like until she goes passive-aggressive. Then that brings up one post?

 

Wasteland? Of bitterness? In the middle of an Ocean of Help?

 

Thank you for the Twilight cheap shot. Intellectually superior, I'm sure.

 

Regardless, there were also a few posts that I believe were deleted. One in particular was something about me opening up my mouth to swallow the ***. I was really horrified by that at the time, so I discounted a lot of advice because it was hurtful.

 

I thought the tone was mean and nasty, and it's' hard to pick through that type of sh*t for the good stuff, particularly when you are in an extremely vulnerable spot in life.

 

When I posted that, 9 months ago, I was vulnerable and in pain (much of which was self-inflicted). I didn't know where to go and the attacks here didn't help.

 

I've grown since that place though, thanks to IC. I do think there is good stuff to be had on LS and helpful to see the BS side of things as a recovering WS, but I'm just pointing out that if there is verbal abuse going on, and it is pretty much accepted by other posters as somehow helpful, then many WS posters will not stay. Your posts may be counterproductive.

[Decorative]

"I started a thread once enquiring how many miserable WSs begged their spouse to go to IC and MC in an effort to fix the marriage before embarking on the affair.

 

you know how many?

 

Not a single one."

 

That's because most of the WS do not feel safe posting here.

 

Guess what? I did. For TEN years. My marriage ran into trouble on month two of marriage and I begged, pleaded cried, started fights, nagged, went to counseling, asked H to go to counseling, etc. before beginning an affair.

 

He did not get help for his problem and to this day has not done the work in IC.

 

So you filed for divorce, got divorced, then started a new relationship?

 

Right ?

 

Or did you have an affair?

 

See the problem? You are blaming him for your bad decision. If he was so horrible - then you leave. You don't lessen yourself or hurt him by cheating. You leave. Divorce happens every day in America. It sucks, but at least it's honest.

 

And I suspect you know that. Which is why you are continuing to be angry.

[waterwoman]

"I started a thread once enquiring how many miserable WSs begged their spouse to go to IC and MC in an effort to fix the marriage before embarking on the affair.

 

you know how many?

 

Not a single one."

 

That's because most of the WS do not feel safe posting here.

 

Guess what? I did. For TEN years. My marriage ran into trouble on month two of marriage and I begged, pleaded cried, started fights, nagged, went to counseling, asked H to go to counseling, etc. before beginning an affair.

 

He did not get help for his problem and to this day has not done the work in IC.

 

Are you still together? I am sorry you felt that way. I find it really helpful to hear from WS. In fact I'd love to see my H posting here from the heart.

[thomasb]

Act. Then you should have left. There is no excuse. Just another attempt at justification. Until you own that you will never be at peace with yourself.

[Act Two]

I do own that. I should have left. I own that I took the cowardly way of it. I now take responsibility for that decision to cheat, which was my fault. Here are several truths that I know and own.

 

1. My husband was emotionally abusive to me by lying for years.

2. After feeling anger and resentment towards him, I made the choice to cheat because I was afraid to divorce and didn't want to lose my children or hurt them. I went outside the marriage to have my needs met, which was selfish and cowardly.

3. That bad decision(s) made my ME, was as another poster here says, like dropping a nuclear bomb on the marriage, even if the marriage was like a burning room.

4. My husband did not deserve my betrayal.

5. We are now divorcing but both doing everything in our power to forgive each other and co-parent effectively

6. My husband and I are actually not even very angry at each other anymore. We wish for each other a happy, meaningful life that for the most part we could not give each other.

[dreamingoftigers]

Thank you for the Twilight cheap shot. Intellectually superior, I'm sure.

 

I've grown since that place though, thanks to IC. I'm just pointing out that if there is verbal abuse going on.

 

Yes there is, YOU are engaging in it.

 

And guess what "Twilight" didn't nail your character to a wall. Check my posting history. Quirky comments are a hallmark. I found the blood thing weird. It seems extreme. Still does.

 

Yeah. It's damn ignorant and abusive to talk about getting that in your mouth etc. No kidding. Disgusting. Rude and inappropriate.

 

I hope that the posts were flagged and removed.

 

I came to LS initially over my husband's sexual addiction. My earliest threads included plenty of posters telling me it "didn't exist" that I was "too controlling" or "too fat" (even though I was 90 lbs lighter than when we married.)

 

Guess what? I chose a different route. I ignored a whole pile of them and tried to explain my position to a whole pile more. It wasn't about a glorified version of "you people." not because I am great or amazing blah blah bit because it wasn't going to HELP.

 

Blaming anyone else wasn't going to help the issue until I knew more about it all and the blaming myself wasn't working either. I slowly discovered through a long crappy journey who was responsible for what.

 

IMHO, after a long while at LS, I conclude that most WS/OP blame others for what is their responsibility. In general. Overall.

 

Blameshifting is the same pattern in their M. "it is my spouses fault because xyz." "well, it's your fault, you are bitter, probably drove your spouse away."

 

And they believe it and often their spouse believes it to, for awhile.....

 

Nobody on LS could've made you deal or not deal with your M. I'm site you get that now in IC. as well, I also get that at the height of pain, a lot of well-intentioned things on a forum like this seem like information overload and like you are being torpedoed with things (general) you might not have considered (like the long-term impact to your kids, many waywards don't think of it or assume "it'll be okay).

 

Glad to hear you've done sone introspection in IC. Sorry I missed your thread the first time around.

 

Did M work out? (no sarc)

 

Straight up, you might not like my particular posts or posting style. I often post how I talk in person. Tone adds or deducts. NPR was I taking a shot at your situation or pain. If I wanted to take "cheap" shots I could've done that. Hell, I've had it done. (see above LOL) I operate with (in general) empathy in my top 3 things that I post.

 

So, A2, how do we as BS on LS talk to you about your affair? (in general, not yor particular affair on your thread etc?)

[Steen719]

My wife does not get catty and attack like most of the posters on this thread, so there is no parallel. She is not bitter and betrayed.

 

I, for one, wish I could say that. Easier to be cheerful and sunny when you are not betrayed.

[Journee]

I get so tired of people saying that there had to have been something missing or wrong with the marriage for the cheating partner to have cheated! There was nothing wrong or missing in my marriage. There was nothing wrong or missing in my wifes treatment of me or my marriage! What was missing was within me and my boundary code. It had nada to do with my wife, my parents, my church or the damn dog next door. It was me. My choice. My decision. No one shoved me into it but myself. Pun intended.

 

 

 

 

As a BS, this actually is my biggest hurdle. If there was nothing I could do better, longer, faster, with more salt, twenty minutes earlier....something... Then my fear is there is nothing that can be done to prevent it happening in the future.

 

This is really the most difficult aspect for me. The "why"

[thomasb]

As a BS, this actually is my biggest hurdle. If there was nothing I could do better, longer, faster, with more salt, twenty minutes earlier....something... Then my fear is there is nothing that can be done to prevent it happening in the future.

 

This is really the most difficult aspect for me. The "why"

 

No one can control the behavior of another person. You can only control your own behavior and responses to others misbehavior. That is why after my affair I had to come to the realization that this was my fault. Totally. I had to own it. I looked into my wife's crying eyes and saw the pain and devastation I had caused! It took a couple months of intense individual counseling to get to a point where my wife would even consider letting me have a chance to reconcile. And then several months together od MC.