Caldespair Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 20 plus years married 2 teenage kids 6 weeks ago I stood up to her, sternly insisted she apologize to aggrieved family member. She apologized, but then wanted me to leave our house. She is still a 20 on scale of 10 for hostility, venom, and hate for me. Previous to this time period, she held me up as a wonderful husband, for the most part. My comtention is she has abandonement issues from past, not me, I was always her rock, now her world is upside down. Per daughter, W is distraught, but functioning. She quit her job and says she's needs to take a year off to straighten out her life. We are in process of D. I see her as having mania, as this is not same person ive known. Tried numerous times to put things right, but basically get a f&&u. Now I'm trying to protect myself, doing LC, only e mails for d. I love her, but can't reach her. We r both in ic. My therapist had 1 session that included my wife early in this process. Therapist says she's seen thus before, rush to d, then w could come to realize mistake she made. I'm stuck as what I can do, if anything but,move along in D. Thanks
standtall Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Caldespair...you can't fix her..she can only fix herself. The decision you have to make is whether or not you want to stick around for the ride for if and when she ends up being fixed. 1
TaraMaiden Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 I'm stuck as what I can do, For her - nothing more. For you and your daughter, everything possible. I see what's happening here. What's happening here, is that the Emotional Heart, is getting in the way of the Practical Head. You must never, absolutely cannot ever, permit Emotion to cloud Practical judgement. The emotional entanglement you and she are extricating yourselves from, is one thing. The Practicality of a divorce, and legal separation - is quite another. Hard as it may be to understand - the two should never meet, and you cannot allow heart to rule head. How you feel about this on an emotional level, may be of supreme importance - but equally important - in fact, far more so - is the logical, practical and rational decisions you have to make, with regard to a legal separation and divorce. Do not permit how you FEEL about her, to interfere with what you must Practically do. 1
trippi1432 Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Personally, reading your other threads, you have gotten a lot of good advice on the implosion of your marriage. I agree, divorce is the solution to practical matters, but I don't think diagnosing your wife of 20 years of mania or another mental issue is going to help you in this situation. Even your daughters have tried to help by asking you to show love to your wife because she was very hurt when you started a family squabble and then forced her to apologize to your sister with the threat of leaving her if she didn't. I'm taking this from your other threads of what you have written. So, practically, what should you do....go forward with a divorce because one wrong deserves another? You should give her time and space to get over feeling that the one person who loves her, betrayed her emotional stability. Sorry if this comes across as crass, but you got caught in the middle of something you may have played party to in instigating. When you stop feeling, you could probably rewrite the 20 years of marital history to validate a divorce. My apologies if this doesn't help in the matter, but 20 years is an awful lot to throw away when there has been no infidelity that I can tell and just hurt feelings that requires a sincere, and heartfelt apology....although pride is an worse thing to lose than a marriage. 2
Author Caldespair Posted January 10, 2013 Author Posted January 10, 2013 Thanks Stan ,Tara and Tripp. Tripp, I have tried numerous apologies , in person, gave her bday greetings (card , balloon), maybe 5-6 attempts to "work this out". Never once has she responded. I can tell, from what I've learned here, in a year or so I will not be so miserable. The way she's rushing through this d process, it can be done in over in a short time. I know she is not herself, and I take responsibility and have paid some penance for my stern action. I just hate to continue down this road, get d, a it's all flushed away. All my hopes, aspirations, and dreams. I know eventually if d , I will have a life, but I will prob never shake the what ifs, the what if I was more intuned with what she needed. What she required. I felt I've made a grievous mistake that day, sternly and strongly ordering my wife to apologize at the threat of leaving. I probably will regret my actions, or lack of actions for years to come. Even after very srr8 forward e mail to her, professional, respectful, she comes back with how I chose my family over her, plus venomous derogatory comments about me. This is not the person Ive been with for 27 years. Thanks for input.
trippi1432 Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Caldespair, with all due respect, have you tried a heartfelt apology by seeing things from her point of view? It gets a little deeper than a straight forward email, a professional or respectful one....it takes YOUR feelings of what was right or wrong out of the situation and holds accountability of what YOUR actions did to HER feelings. If you really don't want the divorce, it is time to get "in-tuned" to what she needs and what she requires. Unless you can clearly say that for the past 27 years she has always been this manic person and you are ready to throw in the towel for a new single life and put those years behind you.....it's something to think about. It's easy to go over the venomous comments and derogatory remarks when you are in the heat of it, hard to assess the good years that were lost over "heat of the moment" remarks. It's disheartening when you see a couple married as long as the two of you have been, brought up children together, been through probably so many challenges together to let something so resolvable (and a family squabble) destroy it. It's really up to you, but it takes much longer than a year to not be so miserable when you tally up 27 years of history in my opinion. Making a big life change is pretty scary, but know what is scarier? Regret. 2
Author Caldespair Posted January 10, 2013 Author Posted January 10, 2013 It's been 6 weeks only. Some threads are over 1 year long with similar situations. I want to try, again, more dramatically, to show her that I've changed, (I have, with counseling) Also had been prescribed adderall by long time family doctor for addhd over 2 years ago with W knowledge. Since this blow up she's read all the bad stuff on adderall and says I'm a drug user. I have not touched adderall since this breakup. I will present her with some of these changes, she can call my doctor. I will also profess my complete backing of my wife when it comes to family issues. ****, if w wants to move I'd be ok with it. But if I do all this, she's says f off to me, then that will set me back to ground zip. Should I give this a try?
Author Caldespair Posted January 10, 2013 Author Posted January 10, 2013 Tripp, I wrote above b4 reading your last post. I don't want regret. And Tripp , if I can't see her in person, I will hand write, e mail so antiseptic, a more heartfelt apology.
TaraMaiden Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 It's been 6 weeks only. Some threads are over 1 year long with similar situations. I want to try, again, more dramatically, to show her that I've changed, (I have, with counseling) Also had been prescribed adderall by long time family doctor for addhd over 2 years ago with W knowledge. Since this blow up she's read all the bad stuff on adderall and says I'm a drug user. I have not touched adderall since this breakup. I will present her with some of these changes, she can call my doctor. I will also profess my complete backing of my wife when it comes to family issues. ****, if w wants to move I'd be ok with it. But if I do all this, she's says f off to me, then that will set me back to ground zip. Should I give this a try? Really?? You're kidding - right?? Please tell me you're kidding... Oh for chrissakes, quit!! Stop with the crawling, begging apologising, hoping, and clinging! Gah!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
Justtiredofit Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 OMG...TARAMAIDEN!!!!!! YOU OPENED MY EYES! THANK YOU.....THANK YOU......THANK YOU!!!!! Even though I THINK I am still in love (which the further I get away, the more I wonder), I still MUST continue on with the divorce! If not, I look like a total pu&&y! I've known this, but lately she will try to call me or text me. But if I don't answer her as quickly as she wants, or how she wants, she becomes angry and says "just send the papers". I think she said that 3 times yesterday in between other texts (we are only texting right now). But anyway, YES! I MUST continue with the divorce process. I MUST NOT be her friend in ANY form or fashion. I'm still in love with her, but do I love HER or the 20 years together, and the togetherness of being grandparents and growing old together? I don't know. When I read my "Daily Affirmations" (a collection of the things I have emailed to myself about what she has done/taken from me, it helps a little and makes sense.) But you are RIGHT...my HEART just can't let go! I think it's the same with her because she is: Let's talk like adults.....just send the papers.....I just wanna talk like adults.....just send the papers ASAP!......Are things ok?......just send the papers. If she doesn't get out of me what she wants, she just says send the papers. I can't tell which way is up? Her fantasy "crush" blew her off 3 weeks ago, telling her he is not interested and does not want to be texted (after he found out she had a crush on him.) Since then, she has been texting me asking if I hate her, why am I ignoring her, why won't I answer when she calls, she has been nothing but nice to me thru this process, why can't I be nice and talk like adults? So I asked her: "Do you want this D?" She said "Why are you messing with me?" Then the next day, she outright asked "fantasy crush" for a relationship. He immediately called me, we talked and he sent another rejection text. That night he told me on the phone he will be paying his provider to block her number (we're good friends and play in a band together). The next day, she sent him another text (after e AGAIN rejected her) and said "Did you tell Justtiredofit?" Now why the HELL would it matter if he told me or not? I texted her that he told me, he was now having to block her number, she was pathetic, and that I had lost all respect for her. She got mad and sent another barrage of texts. Moving on with the divorce.......
TaraMaiden Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 I know. Sometimes it just hits you like a sledgehammer, don't it?? "OMFG!! What the hell have I been doing?!"
trippi1432 Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Sorry, is there a cross post here?? How did JustTiredofIt's infidelity issue with his marriage become an issue in Caldespair's thread about resolvable differences? 1
TaraMaiden Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 It's a thread, and people post what's relevant to them. I post what I feel is appropriate. Other do the same. It's no big deal....
Justtiredofit Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Sorry Cal...... This is what has worked well for me: -NC/LC, kids or business ONLY -Indifference when speaking to them -Hapiness if they see you -Separate everything bit by bit -Move forward with the divorce yourself and be in a hurry The grass is NOT greener on the side she is trying to get to. When she lays down with another man, she may have great sex at first, but will eventually realize it is NOT YOU. When the OM has to interact with the kids, she will realize it's NOT YOU when he does not/cannot love them the way you do. When OM's personality quirks and/or UN-availability override his money and/or "hot" body, she will realize it's NOT YOU. Looks, money, power, and the other things she thinks she sees in OM will FADE....and fade QUICKLY. She didn't stay with you this long because she didn't love you. Just like with me: my STBXW was "Honey, baby, love you deeply" and having sex just DAYS before she announced our marriage was at an end. THAT is not a woman that is done. She keeps trying to talk to me.....THAT is not a woman that is done with the marriage. SO....work on yourself, get fit, get healthy, separate everything and get yourself organized, and push the papers. When the OM gets on her nerves, farts in bed, trims his fingernails all over the couch, leaves his shavings in the sink, craps with the door open, or leaves her, she will suddenly go: "OMG....WHAT have I DONE???? WHERE is my CALDESPAIR???" But you have to give her TIME to miss you. You can't get over 20 years in a matter of a few months. Whatever she sees right now will FADE. It is a façade. It takes 5 years to get over 20 years. Move forward bro and don't look back. But be ready to console me on here tomorrow when I'm in a different mindset 1
trippi1432 Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Thanks for the clarification Tara....that was just like "Whoa, where did that come from??". At any rate, I'm not trying to insinuate crawling, begging, pleading. But I will say that if the issue is resolvable, and I feel this one is, one should do their best to make a heartfelt effort to resolve it. Not JustTiredofIt's issue, Caldespair's issue. Getting divorced is much easier than really facing the marriage in my opinion. 1
TaraMaiden Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Thanks for the clarification Tara....that was just like "Whoa, where did that come from??".I felt like I was spinning plates for a second, there.... ....one should do their best to make a heartfelt effort to resolve it. Not JustTiredofIt's issue, Caldespair's issue. Getting divorced is much easier than really facing the marriage in my opinion. I agree. Huge flaw in that plan however: One person, cannot fix it for two. Both people have to be equally willing to accept that work needs doing, and that they both need to do the work equally. Otherwise it's just like trying to run with one foot nailed to the floor. 1
trippi1432 Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Obviously I missed something in Caldespair's threads....I was unaware that his wife threw him out because she if f***ing around with another man.
trippi1432 Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) I felt like I was spinning plates for a second, there.... I agree. Huge flaw in that plan however: One person, cannot fix it for two. Both people have to be equally willing to accept that work needs doing, and that they both need to do the work equally. Otherwise it's just like trying to run with one foot nailed to the floor. I agree Tara....both have to want to work to fix it. But someone has to diffuse the anger and not continue to ignite it. Who wants to be the match and who wants to be the gas tank? It can always go a different way when one diffuses it instead of pours more gas on it. Going NC with someone you do love and want to work the differences out with only adds to the hurt. Unfortunately, the advice that people read on here gets taken wrong and implemented to just add gas to the already growing fire. Edited January 10, 2013 by trippi1432 revised 3
TaraMaiden Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Have you seen this thread, for example? I have to confess, sometimes I just have a hard job keeping up with the stories.... from everyone, that is... it just gets so confusing. 1
trippi1432 Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Thanks Tara - I got two pages into that one and agree with a lot of it....it's hard to get the entire story with the multiple threads, I fear that a lot of people get the wrong advice due to that. Hard as emotions are to process, harder to digest varying opinions.
Justtiredofit Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Going NC helps the BS get their crap together. It also helps them to realize one way or the other, WHAT exactly they DO want. But NC also gives time for the WS to MISS the BS. Absence really does make the heart grow fonder. The bad times and anger quickly disappear. Time like this brings things into perspective. As more time goes by, there is MUCH more clarity. I would however like to hear stories of the opposite?
Author Caldespair Posted January 10, 2013 Author Posted January 10, 2013 Tripp I drove over their this am. She was home. We spoke face to face for the first time in 4 weeks. She went on and on how ****ty a person I am. I just nodded and said your right. I agreed with everything she said. But there was no pleading from me. I stated that i still love her, that of course i made some mistakes, but we had a hreat run. I teared up when talking about the children though. She says she loves me still, i told her the same. But she had to rant meanly for about 10 minutes. I know she wanted me to put up a fight, argue about incorrect **** she was saying but i nit my tongue, very composed. But then we had normal discussion (on my dining table in my house) about impending divorce, about kids soccer game. She said she is trying to rebuild her life (wants me to float her for 1 year, we will see). But insisted we will get divorced and i agreed. BUT, it was the best connection ive had with her since blow up, i feel like im floating right now. Not because it will all work out , but because i guess im proad of myself and i do see her more now as what she is- kinda messed up with many issues beyond me (her family issues and father mother issues) We parted very amicably. I will pick up my lab puppy Friday at the house for the weekend and she offered me furniture or anything that's needed. I kinda feel like all is good now in the world. But is it because I deeply think we are still connected with a chance down the road? I think the answer is yes. 1
worldgonewrong Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 But NC also gives time for the WS to MISS the BS. Absence really does make the heart grow fonder. The bad times and anger quickly disappear. Time like this brings things into perspective. As more time goes by, there is MUCH more clarity. Er...my WS doesn't miss me. Hasn't for 2 years. I did, however, obtain clarity and realized she's not what I want AT ALL.
trippi1432 Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 I would however like to hear stories of the opposite? I don't disagree with you on those reasons....when one of the parties decides it's over. But not every situation is black and white. In resolvable differences (not infidelity) it can be used to give space for cooling off period. In some cases, it can be used as punishment and it gets the punishing person exactly the opposite effect....the person they are trying to get to miss them, moves on. NC is not a game, it's serious and can do just as much damage to a relationship as sending mixed signals. 2
Yasuandio Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Personally, reading your other threads, you have gotten a lot of good advice on the implosion of your marriage. I agree, divorce is the solution to practical matters, but I don't think diagnosing your wife of 20 years of mania or another mental issue is going to help you in this situation. Even your daughters have tried to help by asking you to show love to your wife because she was very hurt when you started a family squabble and then forced her to apologize to your sister with the threat of leaving her if she didn't. I'm taking this from your other threads of what you have written. So, practically, what should you do....go forward with a divorce because one wrong deserves another? You should give her time and space to get over feeling that the one person who loves her, betrayed her emotional stability. Sorry if this comes across as crass, but you got caught in the middle of something you may have played party to in instigating. When you stop feeling, you could probably rewrite the 20 years of marital history to validate a divorce. My apologies if this doesn't help in the matter, but 20 years is an awful lot to throw away when there has been no infidelity that I can tell and just hurt feelings that requires a sincere, and heartfelt apology....although pride is an worse thing to lose than a marriage. -- Maybe so in this case! In addition, it's possible "pride issues" did a number on his wife's confidence and self-esteem (aka "mania!"). Yas -- THIS, THIS, and THIS AGAIN. Trippi nailed it.
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