She wants out after 20 plus years? My move?

[Caldespair]

It's been only 1 week since our fight and now she wants me out. We just had a wonderful family thanksgiving, our two teenage girls and families. It seems like a nightmare. She wants no counseling for our marriage. I've been at a hotel for the week, I don't want to antagonize her further. I've been sending her apologies, told her I'm going to couples counseling (alone), and we must not throw away our wonderful life. I love her dearly and am despairing.

 

But as I've read some other stories here, they sound familiar. I'm a guy, business owner, 49 years old, and I have not been meeting her needs ie communicating. Now this does seem clear - I took her for granted. It also appears that the crisis ongoing is not only about "us", it's about how I have ruined her spirit. She even said she feels extremely low, and she quit her successful high paying job due to all this.

 

A letter she wrote me today had the basic, you have taken my spirit out of me, I told u 6 months ago we needed more time together, and I can occasionally be snappy. She said she sensed that our marriage would end prematurely due to my overbearing sister (they hate one another) and they had a recent flare up.

 

Should I write her daily apologies, noting my faults and promising to correct them? Or do I let things cool down, do the NC thing and see what happens. I love my family, we are blessed (I thought so).

 

Thanks for any input:(:(

 

The message

[TaraMaiden]

If she told you 6 months ago that something needed sorting, then believe me, this was on her mind a good long while before that. This is something that has been suffocating her for a long time.

Therefore, you can probably safely bet that she's been unhappy for some considerable time, and 'checked out' long ago. Maybe a lot longer ago than you think.

 

I hate to say it, but begging, pleading, focussing on the good times, what a wonderful marriage it is - will do nothing to help. In fact, perversely, it will probably have the completely opposite effect.

For example:

 

"in your eyes yeah, but you're so insensitive and unconscious of my feelings that you're just remembering what you want to remember. Don't tell me what a good marriage we had - you may have had, maybe, but for me it was hell!"

 

That kind of thing.

 

Her relationship with your sister has obviously not helped - and you don't say how supportive you've been to her in that, either. If she's been at odds with your sister for a long time, reflect on how much you've contributed to that by how you have reacted? If you adopted a neutral policy, and one of "I'm keeping out of this and not getting involved" that's as clear a message to your wife that either you don't care or worse, you side with your sister.

 

This of course is complete hypothesis on my part, I have no idea how things went down on that score. But it's just a further input.....

 

I hate to be the harbinger of doom, but it's time to consult a legal adviser.

This is done and dusted.

[candyland123]

I could be your wife. I just divorced my husband after a 20 plus year marriage. I did not want to go to counseling, I did not want to try, I did not hate him, hate would have meant feelings, I had none, I was completely indifferent to him. My spirit had died several years earlier, it took me quite awhile to build the strength to leave. I felt I had to get away from him because there was no "me" left. I had disappeared and the only way to re-discover myself, was to leave.

 

Our marriage was not terrible. The kids were older and on their own. I would come home at night and dread watching the garage door open, hoping his car would not be there. The evenings together were horrible. Not for the fighting and arguing, for the silence. He would sit in the office all night long on the computer, what was he doing, I did not even care anymore. I would call him to dinner and he would say "in a few". His few always turned into 45 minutes or more. I stopped cooking dinner. Why make a meal to eat by myself. I moved to the other bedroom, I couldn't stand for him to touch me. The hurt and anger over the years had killed my feelings for him.

 

The divorce happened quickly, 6 months and our 20 year relationship was over. It has been several months since, the time apart has allowed for some of the anger to fade, I miss him. The time apart has made him make some changes. He actually admits to some responsibility for the divorce. He actually hears me talk now. He never wanted the divorce. The sad thing is I am not sure I did either. But we needed time apart.

 

SEPARATION AGREEMENT CONTRACT

 

This is what I wish we had negotiated before getting divorced. We talked about separating but could not agree on the details. Go to your marriage therapist and discuss this. Negotiate every detail of the separation. Who will move out, you MUST live apart. You both need an opportunity to see what it is like without the other. Negotiate if you will see each other/have sex with each other, if you will see other people/have sex with them. All the details you can think of, you do not want to argue about the separation after it occurs. Then wait, be apart, see how you feel. Its a cooling off period, maybe even a hall pass. Personally I would put dating and sex with others in the contract. Sex with other people was part of my thought process in getting divorced.

 

We are divorced now, he is dating someone else and cheated on her to be with me. Will we get back together, I do not know we haven't had enough time apart yet. But I feel better towards him and about myself. Stop begging and ask for this, I hope it at least allows both of you a period to see if divorce is best. Good luck.

[Caldespair]

You are correct, I played the neutral ploy between sister and wife. Just writing it out makes me understand what a mistake that has been. I fu up.

 

Also spot on, I recall the great times in last 6 months- golfing, award ceremonies, romantic trips to the wine country. But don't they counter balance the bad decisions on my part?

 

And the dusted and busted, I hope that does not come true. I don't feel I've done anything egregious (abuse, infidelity, menal abuse). Don't you think that now that I have seen the light, and she gets the message, that she would want to try counseling to repair our "broken" marriage.

 

Tara, u know your stuff, I see you have many post on this, so your further input is appreciated.

[TaraMaiden]

Instead of writing a letter, acknowledging your faults, and promising to amend them, LISTEN.

Ask her to tell you what you can do in her eyes to help anything?

Tell her you completely see her point, but how can you go about, in small steps, making it up to her?

Don't assume you know what bugs her.

 

Sometimes, what bugs a defeated wife, who's tried for a long time to keep things together at her end, is just a desire to be HEARD.

 

If she refuses to contribute, the separation contract may be a great next move.

 

But if this has been a bug for her for so long, understand two things are necessary:

Time

And admittance of responsibility.

on both sides.

It takes 2 to make a marriage, but sometimes, even though the responsibility for care upkeep and maintenance is absolutely 50-50, the BLAME for things coming to a crisis is by no means equal.

 

She needs to really vent.

And she really needs to know she's being listened to.

[Caldespair]

Your response was insightful. Yes, things have gotten a bit quiet since our oldest left for colleage in fall. I love my sports, watching and my wife and I play tennis on mixed doubles team. But with the last 4 weeks of foul weather this "our" time declined. I know that did not help.

What scares me, is that due to our fight, and a conflict with client at work right before our fight, she quit her job. Which I have no problem with and we are fine without that income.

 

Candy, it seems like in our 20 plus years together, she can, in her fury with me, recall EVERY incident where I wronged her. Stuff that can be mundane, to more serious is just like it occured yesterday.

 

I love how your story worked out with your hubby and how u may get back together. But I want to fix this now, or soon, get counseling, and really GET it. I feel like a sap as I am getting great input from u and Tara.

[Caldespair]

And did u have a relationship going as your ex did before you got together?

[TaraMaiden]

You're the one posting, it all sounds as if this is 'your fault' but I'm sure, in this marriage, that perhaps you also had needs that weren't 'met'. This isn't supposed to be a prompt for a slanging match; on the contrary.

 

But if you stop to think about some things you wish she had done/not done, I'm sure that there is an absence of effort on both sides.

 

This is neither the time nor opportunity for you to bring all that to light - but men have a different way of coping with what ails them, and it usually involves distraction, and throwing themselves into whatever there is that interests them, to avoid pondering or festering over that issue.

Women - think. They brood, they become thoughtful, resentful, and they accumulate everything.

This is not a healthy method, because resentment is a nasty, heavy burden to keep carrying, and when it all explodes and comes out, the other partner feels somewhat overwhelmed by the avalanche of "and another thing....!"

 

So you're going to have to 'play this her way' unfortunately.

Like I said, approach this in a way that seeks to give her a voice.

All she really wants is to be understood, appreciated and loved.

 

Tell her you're more than ready to do whatever it takes, but you're just asking her to not let go, just yet.....

[Caldespair]

Tara, u r like a sage. I feel like I have been blinded and can now see. I wish we had had a more serious sit down discussion 6 months ago when she mantiones some issues. But I just took it too lightly.

 

What a resource this site and people are. After much despair herenin California, I feel like I am beginning to understand the issues at hand, and this has somewhat lifted my anxiety / fear/. It's been the longest week in my life and I feel slightly more hopeful. Much appreciation

[TaraMaiden]

Go quiet for a while. When she gets in touch, tell her you've been quietly thinking about everything, and you see her point. then approach a remedy by listening, and asking what she most needs now. What can you do about this?

 

Chances are, she's been so busy thinking about how wronged she's felt, she hasn't either given a thought to a solution, or she believes it's gone too far now for reversal.

 

You may have to man up and take a separation on the chin, but nobody ever said this would be easy, or have the Christmas fairy-tale ending.

I wish I could say otherwise, but.... well..... all I can say is that Disney, and other schmalzy movie writers have a lot to answer for.....

[candyland123]

While I understand your impatience, if your wife is feeling as I did it is to late to talk. She has tried to talk with you and you never heard. My xh and I had this discussion.

 

Him: but I want to talk now, I am listening!!!!!!

 

Me: I would rather talk to the wall, it pays more attention to me....

 

I did not care he wanted to "fix" things. I had to get away from him. I am not saying to not attempt to talk to your w, I am saying do not be surprised if she doesn't want to.

 

Stonewalling or shutting down are very difficult to overcome in marriage counseling. Right now it appears your wife does not want to share or even vent. She has tried that in the past and saw it did not work. I shut down, like your wife I quit a job several months before asking for a divorce. I fell into a depression, have you considered this possibility?

 

My suggestion, tell your wife you love her, you understand she may need some time, but your not ready to give up on your relationship. Ask her to wait, ask her to write to you. Xh and I began emailing each other, it was the most we have ever shared. See if she will do this.

 

XH and I are NOT back together. It is to soon, there are still many things which need to change. I was seeing someone during our separation which he found out about. I don't know if he will be able to overcome the pain from this. He says he forgives me but I don't really believe him. He can say this now but if we were back together would I hear about my "affair" every time he was angry. There are still many issues we need to address before we reconcile. But sex between us was an issue, I could no longer enjoy being with him because I was so angry. Re-discovering we could have good sex was a nice surprise and definitely a incentive to address some of our other issues.

[Gunny376]

The best stratgeity for you at this time is to just "CHILL"

 

Leave her tha' Hell alone and to give her the "Gift of Missing You!" And you can't do that if your always in her face all the time. You need to give her time to experience and acknowledge the ~ "Her" new reality of life without you for the first time in twenty years.

[BlueStone]

My 2 cents: It would be wise for you to move out and let herself to re-discover single life again. It might take 6 months or so. It might include new friends, even a new love. Still I think at the end you will be the winner and you will get back together. Avoid talking about divorce, rather just get out of her way. You will be connected to her anyway through the children. Single life might look shiny for a while but eventually she will be missing you. Good luck!

[Steen719]

Be careful about blaming yourself for everything. Generally, it is both parties who have issues.

 

Give her time to miss you, but it can't be just the absence of you that makes her want you. If you get back together after being apart and have not worked on your issues, you will face the same problems again. One thing you would have to work on for sure is the relationship between wife and sister.

 

If you have any chance of making your marriage work, you both will have a lot of work ahead, not just you.

[maybealone]

Instead of writing a letter, acknowledging your faults, and promising to amend them, LISTEN.

Ask her to tell you what you can do in her eyes to help anything?

Tell her you completely see her point, but how can you go about, in small steps, making it up to her?

 

I would have given ANYTHING for my husband to have done this.

 

In my case, I let things fester on my end, which I regret. I let things go for a few years before I finally told my husband I wasn't happy. I told him what I needed and he didn't listen. Like you, six months went by and he hadn't done anything to attempt to repair the marriage or even acknowledge that the problems were serious. That crushed me as much as all his neglect in the years preceding that did.

 

Candy, it seems like in our 20 plus years together, she can, in her fury with me, recall EVERY incident where I wronged her. Stuff that can be mundane, to more serious is just like it occured yesterday.

 

I could do this too. In our marriage, he never would discuss things that bothered me so they, too, festered. To the point where something that happened years ago still felt like it happened yesterday because I was never allowed to get any sort of acknowledgement of how it made me feel at the time.

 

A lot of people are saying to give her space now, and they may be right. But think about why you are where you are. In my case, my husband was completely neglecting me. For years I hoped and prayed that he would, just once, ask me how my day was or where I had been. Or for him to have gone to bed at the same time I did, even if he just stayed a few minutes. If your situation is due to neglect in any way, I would think about whether or not giving her space would help things.

[candyland123]

We have been divorced for three months, physically separated for 4. It has only been recently I have begun to miss him. Like your wife there are specific events I recall in our marriage which stand out as markers of his lack of emotional support for me. Each time I tried to discuss them with him he would make excuses about why he couldn't be there.

 

I had to work, someone had to make money (thanks, I made zero contribution)

 

It was to hard to watch my child in pain (yeah and it was easy for me)

 

I didn't know what to do (and I did because I was given the magical handbook)

 

These are all excuses, don't say these things. what I wanted from him in all those cases was his arms around me saying. "I am here for you" thats it... Not fix it, not make it better, I didn't expect those things, they weren't possible. I wanted a "team member" to be on my side when I faced a difficult issue. For some reason our marriage ended up being me vs him. I acknowledge I treated him like ****, I excluded him from the children, we worked against each other.

 

I have been with this man since I was 15. He took care of me. Maybe I felt like it was time to take care of myself. Is my life similar to yours, I don't know. I can only interpret what you put on here. From what I see your wife needs space. She still loves you, it is just mired in the anger and hurt which has built up over the years. I shut down to protect myself. I knew this. I just couldn't get past the hurt with him there every day. I needed space.

[2sunny]

My spidery sense says something happened at your wife's work. Find out what REALLY happened there!

 

It's not right that she just up and left - forfeiting income that the family depends on.

 

Use ACTIONS to show love and remorse. Use actions to make a difference.

 

Words mean nothing unless the action matches.

 

IF your sister has not been nice to your wife - it's important to shut your sister out for a LONG while!! She should NOT think it's ok to treat your WIFE poorly! If you haven't made that clear - i'm sure your W feels betrayed!

[Caldespair]

What I'm hearing and reading from other members stories is 1) what I'm going through, the lack of action I took, and now my wife incensed and shutting down (quitting job), is not unique to me. Somehow this makes me understand what occured between wife and myself, kinda takes away the painful despair I have, and gives me compassion for my wife. I know she's not perfect, i know nobody is, but I feel like I can go forward in a positive, slow, balanced way.

Guys and gals are differently wired. After 20 plus years, life seemingly going great, I forgot about the little things. And yes, I would go to bed later then her which she mentioned. But I have for the most part been respective, listing and inquiring about her day, been very active with our daughters sports clubs. I never went "out" on her.

I shoul have handled my sister situation thing better then I did. I played peacemaker, which worked for years until they had an episode and then I got the you never protected me from your sister.

 

2) my wife is hurt and needs time. My daughter at home telling me mom crying often. Her work issue impacted our situation in that she has beet stressful confrontation from a police officer (my wife helping his mother sell a house) and balls out my wife in a firm mean way, unbeknownst to me, the day b4 our fight.

 

I will lay low, perhaps write her another apology, and let her know what mistakes I've made and I will LISTEN to her.

[2sunny]

The words you write to her are meaningless unless you outline the exact ACTION you plan to DO that will make everything different!

 

Tell her what YOU plan to DO! She can either participate or not.

 

Do what you write! Theres no room for empty promises (words)!

[TaraMaiden]

Give the guy a break, and a chance - he only came in this morning!!

[2sunny]

TM - who was that directed at? I don't see anyone giving anything but solid direction.

[Caldespair]

Had first talk on phone with wife. She called me. She still very upset, kinda mean, insulting to me, but I see the big picture and I, as you guys suggested, I LISTENED. I know she is in crisis and I said I am hearing what you say. After 15 mins of that she demands my sister, write her an apology e mail describing all the wrongs she has done to my wife in the last 20 years. They neve got along but it's to long of story but basically my Italian mother kinda made my wife her 2nd daughter, and my sister hated it, thus years of problems.

Sooo, do I call my sister, tell her to write this apology to my wife for the years of issues? It seems like a power play by wife. If I tell my sister to do this, I feel a bit spineless, as I don't agree with 75% of what my wife's gripes are with my sister. BUT, if I don't , do it, my wife made it clear that this would be a hindrance to us reconciling.

Yikes, what has happened to my life, but mainly what should I do?

[TaraMaiden]

You tell your wife that your sister isn't the problem here. The problem is that you stood by and did nothing all that time.

 

An apology from your sister will be false at best (she won't mean a word of it, and the issue will simply re-appear and repeat) or she will refuse to have anything to do with it, and point-blank deny an apology is necessary.

In short, you have to explain to your wife that while you know she is extremely hurt and upset about the whole situation - she must know logically, in her heart of hearts that what she needs, in this case, will not be forthcoming.

However: you DO promise that you will be a whole load more supportive, and nip any antagonism in the bud, and be far more supportive as a go-between to settle any arguments. You will make every effort to do what is right.

That bit is important, because if ever your wife is in the wrong, privately, between the two of you, you will have to outline why you believe she may be wrong, and how you see things....

[SuperGeek]

That bit is important, because if ever your wife is in the wrong, privately, between the two of you, you will have to outline why you believe she may be wrong, and how you see things....

 

Wives are never wrong .

[TaraMaiden]

As the OP seems to be finding out....

 

But as I said earlier, it takes 2 to tango.

Blame is proportional; responsibility isn't.