Consolidated 'looks' discussion and society's standards of beauty for men vs women

[todreaminblue]

I think there are a lot of factors in play. But consider a simple example:

 

There are two plates in front of you. On the first sits a big slice of chocolate cake. The other has a pile of broccoli sitting upon it. Which one do you want, and why?

 

 

ill take the broccoli because i know i would prefer to have fuel that wont convert to straight fat that i have to burn off by running on a treadmill for six hours or box till i puke that chocky cake back up again...nah..broccoli please....lots of lemon pepper

[SJC2008]

Looks are very subjective and the arguments can go both ways. It is said (yall can argue the worthiness) that women are more attracted to universal attractiveness than subjective attractivness. Whereas men are attracted to a wider range of women, universal and subjective. I know I'm not ugly but I have a long/skinny face and a big head. I have been told I'm cute, hansome, ugly, movie star sexy, gorgeous, wierd and creepy. Now that's range!!! Given that range I'd say my looks are subjective rather than universal.

Edited January 31, 2013 by SJC2008
Edit

[Lani]

This is a load of crap.

 

Women have the same genetic struggles with height as men do. How could you think this is different?

 

A guys 'face bone struggle' as you put it, this can all be helped out with a well shaped beard/stubble/whatever.

 

Balding = genetics. Yeah, this is true, but women also have a lot of issues with hair falling out. All kinds of hormonal things happen to us, we just don't bitch about it.

 

Body= changeable. For both genders.

 

clothes= in your control. Precisely. I love a well dressed man!! Make an effort.

 

Make up= 1-2 points up. How many times do we have to hear the makeup debate? Guys generally don't like girls who wear a lot of makeup, so we have to be careful about what we do here. We get a hard time either way- it's not easy!

 

Hair colour= can make you much more attractive. Who's to say guys can't change their hair colour??

 

Your theory is busted in so many ways. Women have the same troubles guys do, girls have just learnt to cope with it. There's this whole thing around guys now being able to complain about how easy it is to change your appearance and be more attractive if you're a woman, but it's not so easy for men.

I've got news- it is just as easy for men. Quit your bitching.

[pbjbear]

In one line you say that men will screw anything and in the next that they are very picky about looks haha.

 

Lol, squats will change your butt for the goods.

 

Any woman who is fit and toned is hot regardless of how her shape is.

 

Picky about looks on who they get in a relationship with, yes. Only time this doesnt apply is when a guy cant get a hot woman, which sounds like you and some other men that continually complain about women being shallow

 

I dont know what universe you live in- in my universe men place much more importance on looks when choosing a partner. for casual sex or a ONS guys will pretty much screw anything...and it sounds like youre a guy who just needs to screw something honestly

 

No true, I have a few friends who are hot and toned and have a ruler shaped body (meaning no boobs or butt) and they get flack from men all the time.

I have been genetically blessed bodywise with hourglass proportions, I exercise but not necessarily more than them and get hit on more than them.

[danny in van]

I didn't mean YOU.

 

As people who have the capability and brilliance to far exceed the limits nature intended, such as creating devices where you can post on internet message boards while riding on the bus, we can be capable of freeing ourselves either partially or completely from the holds and limits society places on us.

 

If we wanted to. Notice I said WE not YOU. And I do believe it would make the world a better place.

 

sorry - a very silly post. We are attracted to beautiful people, cars, wine, art. Analyzing why is futile...It won't and shouldn't change. You should spend your time figuring how you can become more attractive.

 

Most people could raise their physical attraction I'd say ( this of course is not a perfect science) by 50%? - if they exercised discipline. Discipline to not eat 80% of items on the market...and to work out/exercise like our ancestors did. Very simple really, but most won't do it as they want immediate gratification.

 

Best definition of maturity I've ever heard: the ability to delay gratification.

[pbjbear]

Women have all these advantages (hair coloring, makeup, clothes) in wide varrays compared to men BECAUSE men place more importance on beauty

 

What do men compete in the most? (its not looks...men do compete in looks but not as much compared to other things). Your answer is what women place more importance on

 

Maybe you should focus on working on your charm/humour, your income and your success and not focus on looks

[Lani]

Women do not face the same height requirement as men do. Being 5'6 as a woman is no deal breaker.

 

So a beard will make a guys face good looking?. No, it wont cut it.

 

make up is advantage get over it.

 

No, being 5'6 as a woman is not a dealbreaker. But perhaps being 6ft is? Or being 4'3 (which one of my old friends was, she had endless trouble with it)

 

What I'm trying to say is that you're just trying to make excuses. It's the same for either sex, we all have our struggles.

 

I'm tapping out of this thread, because I can already tell we're not going to get anywhere with you.

[TheGuard13]

Women do not face the same height requirement as men do. Being 5'6 as a woman is no deal breaker.

 

No, but being too TALL is for a lot of women.

[superb]

For a man to be considered attractive physically he can 95% only relie on genetics.

 

Height= mostly genetics.

 

Face bone struggle= genetics.

 

Balding = genetics.

 

Body= changeable.

 

clothes= in your control.

 

So for most part if you are a man either you are born attractive or not.

 

For women they have

 

Make up= 1-2 points up.

 

body= changeable, if she has hot body= endless attention.

 

Sexy clothes= more attention.

 

Height= just don't be over 6'0

 

Hair colour= can make you much more attractive.

 

Its much easier to be considered hot as a woman than a man, since men can only relie on genetics for the most part.

 

 

I am not talking about 30+ crew more like early 20's where both sexes are into physical looks.

 

 

 

Is that you in your avatar picture? jw.

[Yamcha]

Yeah, I agree. It's way too hard. You should just give up. Then you don't have to waste your time posting here anymore.

[JuneJulySeptember]

If you're not attracted to someone, what's the point of being in a relationship...?

 

And you're telling me that if the ugliest woman on earth wanted a relationship with you, you'd say yes? You'd be attracted? I'm guessing no. So why should I, or anyone for that matter, be with someone they're not attracted to?

 

That's called a friendship.

 

First of all, if she was the coolest woman on the Earth, she wouldn't be the ugliest. So, yes I would.

 

I'm not saying you should do anything. I'm just kind of surprised I'm the only one who even thinks about it. I mean, nobody else thinks about equity in this world and at least considering making the world a better place?

 

Do you find judgments of beauty silly outside of the context of romantic relationships?

 

For example, do you feel silly for judging one flower more beautiful than another?

 

We are drawn to visual beauty in nature, architecture, art, and design. Is that silly, too?

 

 

Once again, those things don't lead to social inequity and feeling of rejection. Flowers don't have feelings.

[pbjbear]

Squats will make your ass much bigger, shame many women don't squat.

 

squat squat squat squat squat squat!

 

I agree that men will screw everything but standards for LTR are higher.

 

I squat alot and do deadlifts and bridges

 

Didnt really make it that much bigger, just shaped differently

[crude]

Men are just more tactful than women, maybe because they'll screw anything. We hardly ever call women fat, or cellulite ridden, or laugh at their pancake/ fried egg breasts. We just tell them they're so beautiful, and they go to beauty parlors and read beauty tips. That word gets thrown around too much. Maybe women should look in a mirror when they're sitting on the toilet with no makeup on, and see just how beautiful they really are.

[xxoo]

Once again, those things don't lead to social inequity and feeling of rejection. Flowers don't have feelings.

 

But gardeners, architects, designers, and artists do.

[TheGuard13]

I don't understand why there's not some kind of "Don't make a generalization thread" rule on here, and why threads like this don't get closed down immediately.

[JuneJulySeptember]

But gardeners, architects, designers, and artists do.

 

Those are things that can be changed. That is your vision. If your architecture style was Bauhaus and nobody liked it, you could switch over to Art Deco IF your goal was to please people.

 

Looks cannot be changed. When it's looks, there are beautiful people and there are ugly people. That is static. It varies to some degree, but not a lot.

Edited January 31, 2013 by JuneJulySeptember

[superb]

No, we don't even look close. Different hair colour, hair style.

 

Why do you ask.. do you find him attractive?.

 

Maybe if he weren't crossing his eyes like he's a zombie and maybe smiled.

[superb]

Also, people in their 30's care about looks just as much. It's more of a man vs. woman thing. Both sexes think everything is unfair about everything. I'm surprised we're not extinct by now.

[xxoo]

Those are things that can be changed. That is your vision. If your architecture style was Bauhaus and nobody liked it, you could switch over to Art Deco IF your goal was to please people.

 

When it's looks, there are beautiful people and there are ugly people. That is static. Despite what people say about looks being subjective, it is crock.

 

If perception of beauty is socially influenced (and I agree that it is), how is it not subjective?

 

We can also change our appearance to become more beautiful, but we each are limited by our genetics and resources. The same is true for the aspiring gardener, architect, designer, or artist.

[superb]

I take that as a no.

 

If I were saying no, I'd say no. I'm honest. Looks like the dude is making a funny face. What's his normal expression look like?

[JuneJulySeptember]

If perception of beauty is socially influenced (and I agree that it is), how is it not subjective?

 

 

Because everybody (at least in industrialized and modern societies) follows and refuses to budge on the pre-conceived notions of beauty. Just about EVERYBODY. Scary, isn't it?

 

Perhaps if you went to a pre-literate culture, yes they would be different. I've actually been meaning to study that as a matter of fact.

[TheGuard13]

Because everybody (at least in industrialized and modern societies) follows and refuses to budge on the pre-conceived notions of beauty. Just about EVERYBODY. Scary, isn't it?

 

Yes, but almost everyone follows a lot of "rules" and "accepted ideas" that are socially created. Not just those regarding beauty and attraction.

 

All this says is that most people are followers in some fashion and have bought into the socially accepted definitions of things.

 

I stopped being able to do that when I read about tribes who get their lips and ears "disced" and consider that beautiful.

[xxoo]

Because everybody (at least in industrialized and modern societies) follows and refuses to budge on the pre-conceived notions of beauty. Just about EVERYBODY. Scary, isn't it?

 

I'm a parent. Pre-conceived notions of beauty be damned, my children are the most beautiful people in the world

 

Talk to a mother, and then tell me that everyone follows pre-conceived notions of beauty.

[JuneJulySeptember]

I'm a parent. Pre-conceived notions of beauty be damned, my children are the most beautiful people in the world

 

Talk to a mother, and then tell me that everyone follows pre-conceived notions of beauty.

 

This one exception is accepted.

 

After all, my parents think I'm handsome too.

[ImperfectionisBeauty]

I'm a parent. Pre-conceived notions of beauty be damned, my children are the most beautiful people in the world

 

Talk to a mother, and then tell me that everyone follows pre-conceived notions of beauty.

 

Every parent has to think their kid is beautiful.. I've seen some busted kids and their parents were like "omg my baby" and I was like.. Oh ok. Parents have to think their kid is cute, it would be poor parenting to think they are ugly lol