Don't Want People To Delude Me

[xxoo]

The thing is, you are simply average weight, or maybe even less than average weight.

 

According to this BMI calculator, you are at 44th percentile for your age and height. That is smaller than average.

 

Average is fat. But people commonly consider "fat" to be well over average weight. You are describing yourself as fat, when you are less fat than the average woman your age. Are you really surprised you are getting flack?

[iris219]

If that's what they're calling me behind my back or in their heads, yes! I'd like to have as accurate a picture of myself as possible. I've never been able to figure out how people see me. If they think something about me, I want them to tell me instead of me having to mind-read and guess.

 

Why does it matter? You can't change it (you've said you don't lose weight easily).

 

The reality is that most people aren't thinking whether or not you're fat. They aren't talking about you behind your back. They have more important things to worry about.

[verhrzn]

The thing is, you are simply average weight, or maybe even less than average weight.

 

According to this BMI calculator, you are at 44th percentile for your age and height. That is smaller than average.

 

Average is fat. But people commonly consider "fat" to be well over average weight. You are describing yourself as fat, when you are less fat than the average woman your age. Are you really surprised you are getting flack?

 

Hmm I got 48th percentile. (5'0", 126 pounds, age 27.) Anyway...

 

Yeah I am still surprised I get flack, because that's how other people describe me. Why are they giving me flack when I am just repeating back their own views of me?

[verhrzn]

Why does it matter? You can't change it (you've said you don't lose weight easily).

 

The reality is that most people aren't thinking whether or not you're fat. They aren't talking about you behind your back. They have more important things to worry about.

 

Oo I'm sure they're not thinking about when not around me. But when I'm in their space or interacting with them, they seem to have no trouble voicing their "softer" views on the subject.

 

I wrote about my friend a few weeks ago, the one who told me that she felt confident stripping because hey, the audience accepted my body, so how hard can it be? I discovered through the grape vine that she'd been complaining to other people about me, about how I am always complaining about my body... except of COURSE I complain about my body, you called me fat!

 

It's that kind of situation I am baffled over, or the guy I'm seeing refusing to just admit an obvious reality that he thinks in his head.

[xxoo]

The bottom line is, you can't control other people. You can't control what they say, or how they respond when you call yourself fat.

 

If you don't want them to object when you call yourself fat, you can refrain from talking about your weight around people. You can only control you.

[Taramere]

I think you're right that I look for the same thing in the real world that I look for her.... validation of my experiences. I disagree that it's overly harsh or critical.

 

Since I was little, people have said bad things about me.... and yet, when I repeat them, the same people criticize me for having low self-esteem or being overly harsh.

 

Well, I've had lots of bad things said to me too. To paraphrase the old joke goes, there's a support group for that. It's called Everybody, and they meet here.

 

Those people are your critics, and your job is to not internalise their comments to the point where you become your own worst critic. The gentle alternative to being your own worst critic is to have good self awareness. In this context, to be aware enough, of how some of the more negative or critical people you meet are likely to view you, that their comments aren't likely to come as a huge surprise...but not to be overly consumed by their opinions. Certainly not so much that their opinions of you become your opinions of you.

 

I just repeat what I hear and report what I've seen. Guys on this board, and in real life, criticize girls who look just like me as fat. I myself have been called fat. So why, when I call myself that, do I have body dysmorphia? This is something I never understand.

 

Why would you want to use those guys as models for your thinking and behaviour?

 

I have always tried to embrace the idea that everything comes with a mixture of bad and good, including my body. I would have a much easier time "trusting" my bf if he ever admitted he finds one thing he dislikes about me. But it's the same old dance every time... "No, you look fine."

 

First, I'm guessing that he realises you have a lot of hang-ups, and he doesn't want to feed into them or trigger anything. Consider the extent to which you absorb the bad stuff you hear people say. Secondly, when somebody loves you and is happy in your company they tend to be focused on being happy and enjoying the things they like about you...rather than searching around for reasons to be dissatisfied with you.

 

I can't possibly look fine all the time. I can't possibly be "the most beautiful woman on Earth." I can't NOT be overweight, unless someone is legally blind.

 

I would guess that he means he is happy with the way you look, and doesn't share your negative view of how you look. That "you look fine" is a shorthand way of saying this.

 

Think of it another way: you ask your husband if you look fat in that dress. He knows you do, but doesn't want to hurt your feelings, so says nope, you look great. You go out in that dress. You get stares/laughing/your friends looking at you with horror,' How could you go out in that?!' Would you ever trust your husband's opinion on your clothes again?

 

I can certainly remember a few times I was dressed to go out in an outfit I wasn't sure about...and a boyfriend gently suggested "I really like (other outfit) I've seen you wearing. What about that?" Which I think is a decent way of handling a tricky situation.

 

You'll notice that I never call my exes heartless bastards. I don't think they were. They were just honest. And I prefer it that way. Granted, I wish they hadn't dated me and lied to me at the beginning, but c'est la vie. I prefer honesty over flattery every day.

 

I think diplomacy is best. If a guy is constantly giving you blunt, unflattering truths then you're not really going to want to have sex with him. Or I wouldn't. I appreciate honesty, but I think that if somebody cares about you then they will attempt to temper that honesty with consideration for your feelings.

 

.... I guess I am pretty much also looking for a way to get people to be honest. For example, some of my friends will not stop making barbed comments about my body and my weight. And yet if I turn around and blandly say what they think (fat), then they get all flustered and back-track about how, no, my weight is fine, have some self-esteem! My mother does this as well.

 

So how do I get people to own up to this hypocritical attitude? How do I call people on this behavior?

 

You mentioned that you're 126 pounds with a height of 5 ft. You are inside your healthy weight....just. In other words, you're probably not slim (unless you've got a lot of muscle tone) but you're not fat. "Not slim" doesn't automatically equate with "fat". Unless you're a 12 year old schoolboy posting on one of those Reddit subforms you've mentioned.

 

I don't know what frame you are...but losing 15 pounds to be bang in the middle of your healthy weight sounds ideal. If you're struggling, I'd suggest going to something like Weightwatchers. If that doesn't work, then I don't know what to say...but I certainly wouldn't feed into the self criticism by telling you you're fat, given that you are within the healthy weight for your height. I don't regard that as hypocritical. I think it's sensible and proportionate.

 

Honesty doesn't need to be a metal bar you hit people with until they break. When it looks like that metal bar, it's probably less about honesty and more about a negative, unhappy person trying to project their unhappiness onto you.

[verhrzn]

Those people are your critics, and your job is to not internalise their comments to the point where you become your own worst critic. The gentle alternative to being your own worst critic is to have good self awareness. In this context, to be aware enough, of how some of the more negative or critical people you meet are likely to view you, that their comments aren't likely to come as a huge surprise...but not to be overly consumed by their opinions. Certainly not so much that their opinions of you become your opinions of you.

 

Why would you want to use those guys as models for your thinking and behaviour?

 

Who else should I base it off? Why shouldn't their opinions become my opinions? I have my own opinions about myself, but those are my "inner" opinions. Opinions of myself formed from inside my head, where I know exactly why I think what I do.

 

If I'm looking for "outer" opinions, opinions of how I appear to the world, why wouldn't I use other people's? And why not use these guys' as models... they are very typical of the guys I run into on a daily basis.

 

I can't use my "inner" opinion of myself to formulate my "outer" self, because I have a lot of blind spots about myself. It's like how in elementary school, I could never figure out why people bullied me. I could find no reason for it, so I just made the logical assumption there is SOMETHING crucial about me that I am missing. Without other people's opinions, how could I possibly discover what that is?

 

 

First, I'm guessing that he realises you have a lot of hang-ups, and he doesn't want to feed into them or trigger anything. Consider the extent to which you absorb the bad stuff you hear people say. Secondly, when somebody loves you and is happy in your company they tend to be focused on being happy and enjoying the things they like about you...rather than searching around for reasons to be dissatisfied with you.

 

I would guess that he means he is happy with the way you look, and doesn't share your negative view of how you look. That "you look fine" is a shorthand way of saying this.

 

But he's triggering them by lying. He's triggering them by NOT just admitting there are one or two things he might not dig on. It's unrealistic... it's moronic... to think your partner thinks you're perfect. So by pretending he sees me that way, he's just forcing me to guess WHAT things he dislikes.

 

And my weight is an obvious one.

 

Now, if he said," Babe, you are kinda chunky, but that's okay, I prefer chubby women".... well, all right then. But claiming I am NOT chubby is just flat-out lying. How do you trust someone who lies?

 

 

I think diplomacy is best. If a guy is constantly giving you blunt, unflattering truths then you're not really going to want to have sex with him. Or I wouldn't. I appreciate honesty, but I think that if somebody cares about you then they will attempt to temper that honesty with consideration for your feelings.

 

I'd rather they didn't. I'd rather they gave me unfiltered truth. It serves me much better than "diplomacy." Diplomacy makes me doubt myself and my sanity. Which is why the current situation drives me so absolutely batty.

 

 

You mentioned that you're 126 pounds with a height of 5 ft. You are inside your healthy weight....just. In other words, you're probably not slim (unless you've got a lot of muscle tone) but you're not fat. "Not slim" doesn't automatically equate with "fat". Unless you're a 12 year old schoolboy posting on one of those Reddit subforms you've mentioned.

 

I don't know what frame you are...but losing 15 pounds to be bang in the middle of your healthy weight sounds ideal. If you're struggling, I'd suggest going to something like Weightwatchers. If that doesn't work, then I don't know what to say...but I certainly wouldn't feed into the self criticism by telling you you're fat, given that you are within the healthy weight for your height. I don't regard that as hypocritical. I think it's sensible and proportionate.

 

Honesty doesn't need to be a metal bar you hit people with until they break. When it looks like that metal bar, it's probably less about honesty and more about a negative, unhappy person trying to project their unhappiness onto you.

 

I've tried Weight Watchers. I've tried everything. It's why I've finally just give up and said," All right, body, you're fat, I accept it."

 

In terms of weight I may be healthy, but body type, I am not. I have very skinny arms and legs with a giant stomach. I can no longer see my toes over my paunch. It sticks out as far as my bust. So maybe my BMI is in the higher-range of healthy, but my body type is all "fat in the waist."

 

Maybe a metal bar is necessary to get a point across.

[xxoo]

I'd rather they didn't. I'd rather they gave me unfiltered truth. It serves me much better than "diplomacy." Diplomacy makes me doubt myself and my sanity. Which is why the current situation drives me so absolutely batty.

 

They aren't going to give you the unfiltered truth. Accept it. You can't change anyone but yourself.

 

Talk about other things. Why do you need to discuss your body with people?

Edited November 7, 2012 by xxoo

[verhrzn]

They aren't going to give you the unfiltered truth. Accept it. You can't change anyone but yourself.

 

Talk about other things. Why do you need to discuss your body with people?

 

That doesn't help me with being unable to trust the guy I'm seeing.

[xxoo]

That doesn't help me with being unable to trust the guy I'm seeing.

 

You are choosing to fixate on the words he uses to to describe your body.

 

Does he seem attracted to your body? Does he respond to you sexually? If so, why do you need him to detail what he doesn't like about your body? You are far more than the sum of your parts. Let. it. go.

[verhrzn]

You are choosing to fixate on the words he uses to to describe your body.

 

Does he seem attracted to your body? Does he respond to you sexually? If so, why do you need him to detail what he doesn't like about your body? You are far more than the sum of your parts. Let. it. go.

 

Him responded means nothing. A lot of guys will sleep with anything. Guys slept with me in the past when it turns out they were barely attracted to me.

 

I need him to detail it so I know. So I am aware of his actual thoughts, so I am not caught off-guard when the truth finally comes out.

[xxoo]

Him responded means nothing. A lot of guys will sleep with anything. Guys slept with me in the past when it turns out they were barely attracted to me.

 

I need him to detail it so I know. So I am aware of his actual thoughts, so I am not caught off-guard when the truth finally comes out.

 

You don't need him to detail it. You need to learn to trust.

 

You will never live inside his mind, and be privy to all his thoughts, so knowing his actual thoughts with certainty is an exercise in futility. You'll need to learn to trust without the benefit of knowing all his thoughts.

[SmileFace]

Him responded means nothing. A lot of guys will sleep with anything. Guys slept with me in the past when it turns out they were barely attracted to me.

 

I need him to detail it so I know. So I am aware of his actual thoughts, so I am not caught off-guard when the truth finally comes out.

Your only option is to break up with him. Since you are planning for failure - you aren't being smart just bitter.

[Els]

V, because 5'1" and 126 lbs is right in the middle of the normal recommended weight for women by medical standards. If people have a problem with that and 'call you fat behind your back' because of it, you have two options. 1) You can accede to what they say and go around believing that you ARE fat. 2) Screw them and listen to the people who appreciate women of a normal weight, who I would guess includes your bf.

[charlietheginger]

My sister was fat....

Everymorning she wakes up plays 3 songs

On the cd player she does 100 jumping

Jacks runs in one spot does 100 jumping jacks

Runs in one spot.. Does this over and over for

15 minutes.....

 

She lost 60lbs....

In 5 months.... Its eazy and simple

Nothing fancey ... Now she does it everyother

Day and the weight stayed off....

 

The key is doing it on a empty stomach so

Her body burns fat for fuel....

Then she eats dressed off to work

[Taramere]

Who else should I base it off? Why shouldn't their opinions become my opinions? I have my own opinions about myself, but those are my "inner" opinions. Opinions of myself formed from inside my head, where I know exactly why I think what I do.

 

If I'm looking for "outer" opinions, opinions of how I appear to the world, why wouldn't I use other people's? And why not use these guys' as models... they are very typical of the guys I run into on a daily basis.

 

I can't use my "inner" opinion of myself to formulate my "outer" self, because I have a lot of blind spots about myself. It's like how in elementary school, I could never figure out why people bullied me. I could find no reason for it, so I just made the logical assumption there is SOMETHING crucial about me that I am missing. Without other people's opinions, how could I possibly discover what that is?

 

 

 

 

But he's triggering them by lying. He's triggering them by NOT just admitting there are one or two things he might not dig on. It's unrealistic... it's moronic... to think your partner thinks you're perfect. So by pretending he sees me that way, he's just forcing me to guess WHAT things he dislikes.

 

And my weight is an obvious one.

 

Now, if he said," Babe, you are kinda chunky, but that's okay, I prefer chubby women".... well, all right then. But claiming I am NOT chubby is just flat-out lying. How do you trust someone who lies?

 

 

 

 

I'd rather they didn't. I'd rather they gave me unfiltered truth. It serves me much better than "diplomacy." Diplomacy makes me doubt myself and my sanity. Which is why the current situation drives me so absolutely batty.

 

 

 

 

I've tried Weight Watchers. I've tried everything. It's why I've finally just give up and said," All right, body, you're fat, I accept it."

 

In terms of weight I may be healthy, but body type, I am not. I have very skinny arms and legs with a giant stomach. I can no longer see my toes over my paunch. It sticks out as far as my bust. So maybe my BMI is in the higher-range of healthy, but my body type is all "fat in the waist."

 

Maybe a metal bar is necessary to get a point across.

 

Well, I'm sorry nothing seems to work for you. I feel out of suggestions and advice I'm afraid. A lot of people seem to spend a lot of time trying to help and advise you, but unfortunately it seems to be time and effort wasted, as it only ever seems to increase your frustration.

 

Indeed, from what you're saying, you have a fair bit of anger towards, and mistrust of, anybody who tries to engage you in anything other than a very blunt and brutal way. I feel pretty sorry for your boyfriend given the disrespectful way you're describing a guy who, to me, sounds like a decent and fairly sensitive person. Hopefully since you distrust him so much, you'll end the relationship. That would seem like the correct and honest next step.

[verhrzn]

Well, I'm sorry nothing seems to work for you. I feel out of suggestions and advice I'm afraid. A lot of people seem to spend a lot of time trying to help and advise you, but unfortunately it seems to be time and effort wasted, as it only ever seems to increase your frustration.

 

Indeed, from what you're saying, you have a fair bit of anger towards, and mistrust of, anybody who tries to engage you in anything other than a very blunt and brutal way. I feel pretty sorry for your boyfriend given the disrespectful way you're describing a guy who, to me, sounds like a decent and fairly sensitive person. Hopefully since you distrust him so much, you'll end the relationship. That would seem like the correct and honest next step.

 

Why is disrespectful to want truth? To want to not be lied to?

 

And no need to end the relationship. He'll do it for me. He's moving for grad school and will be surrounded by hot, smart women. I've said before he sticks it out with me because he's stuck in a small town and desperate. Give it a few months, and he'll finally be honest about why he stayed.

[xxoo]

Why is disrespectful to want truth? To want to not be lied to?

 

It isn't.

 

But if he does like your body, he is telling his truth. Focusing on and pointing out a loved one's physical flaws isn't normal behavior, no matter what your experiences have been.

[verhrzn]

It isn't.

 

But if he does like your body, he is telling his truth. Focusing on and pointing out a loved one's physical flaws isn't normal behavior, no matter what your experiences have been.

 

Let's say for a moment that your husband didn't like something about your body. You ask him directly about it. Would you want him to lie? To pretend he does like it? If so, why?

 

If the guy I'm seeing isn't honest about what he likes.... or won't admit I am over-weight when I clearly am.... then how can I trust that he'll sit me down some time in the future and admit that maybe my growing weight has effected his sexual appetite?

 

We see it all the time in forums, in advice letters... guys who don't like their gfs' bodies but won't speak up, so instead stew, withhold sex, or cheat.

 

If I can't trust him to tell me now, when it isn't that pertinent, how do I know he'll tell me then?

[xxoo]

Let's say for a moment that your husband didn't like something about your body. You ask him directly about it. Would you want him to lie? To pretend he does like it? If so, why?

 

This is so far from my reality. My guy is attracted to me. It is obvious. His opinion of my hypothetically gnarly feet really isn't relevant considering how much he is obviously attracted to me, overall.

 

If the guy I'm seeing isn't honest about what he likes.... or won't admit I am over-weight when I clearly am.... then how can I trust that he'll sit me down some time in the future and admit that maybe my growing weight has effected his sexual appetite?

 

If and when his sexual appetite is affected, that would probably be obvious, and then you could have a discussion about why that is happening. Until then, there is no problem.

 

If I can't trust him to tell me now, when it isn't that pertinent, how do I know he'll tell me then?

 

I think it would be obvious to me if my guy had a significant change in his attraction to me. If he were unable or unwilling to discuss why, then we'd have a problem. That isn't something you can necessarily reveal early on by force. You need to let relationships unfold naturally, and see if they develop in healthy ways as challenges present.

[verhrzn]

This is so far from my reality. My guy is attracted to me. It is obvious. His opinion of my hypothetically gnarly feet really isn't relevant considering how much he is obviously attracted to me, overall.

 

If and when his sexual appetite is affected, that would probably be obvious, and then you could have a discussion about why that is happening. Until then, there is no problem.

 

I think it would be obvious to me if my guy had a significant change in his attraction to me. If he were unable or unwilling to discuss why, then we'd have a problem. That isn't something you can necessarily reveal early on by force. You need to let relationships unfold naturally, and see if they develop in healthy ways as challenges present.

 

Yeah, not a problem until he cheats. Or decides to leave me. Over and over the pattern has repeated for me; how wouldn't it this time? Having the courtesy of being honest with me is the least he could do.

 

But maybe you just can't put yourself in my position. Like you said, you know your husband is attracted to you. You know it. Well, I don't and I never have. That is my reality. The reality of being ugly but still trying to figure it all out.

 

He has admitted he found me more attractive when I was skinnier. Well, I will never be skinny again, so why can't he be honest now so we can deal with that reality?

[Avulare]

Re: weight loss... Do some reading on epigenetics. Basically, the genes expressed in your body (some of which will make you more susceptible to obesity and illness) vary over time depending on your lifestyle choices, through DNA methylation and histone acetylation. Though the whole "calories in, calories out" idea is a good starting point, it is not the complete story when it comes to being healthy. Poor diet, emotional stress, alcoholism and other negative environmental factors can cause you to continue to gain weight and be less healthy by actually changing the way your DNA is expressed, no matter how much or how little you eat.

 

It's a pretty new area of research that's quickly growing as we discover more and more about how we function biologically. Here's a good article to read about it:

 

Obesity, Epigenetics, and Gene Regulation | Learn Science at Scitable

[xxoo]

Yeah, not a problem until he cheats. Or decides to leave me. Over and over the pattern has repeated for me; how wouldn't it this time? Having the courtesy of being honest with me is the least he could do.

 

But maybe you just can't put yourself in my position. Like you said, you know your husband is attracted to you. You know it. Well, I don't and I never have. That is my reality. The reality of being ugly but still trying to figure it all out.

 

He has admitted he found me more attractive when I was skinnier. Well, I will never be skinny again, so why can't he be honest now so we can deal with that reality?

 

Sounds like he was honest, admitting he found you more attractive skinnier. That doesn't mean he finds you unattractive heavier.

 

What could he say that would satisfy you?

 

What if what you need to hear isn't true?

 

From earlier posts, you sound convinced that he will leave you no matter what. So what is the point of all this torture? Why not just end it now, rather than waiting for him to dump you?

[verhrzn]

Sounds like he was honest, admitting he found you more attractive skinnier. That doesn't mean he finds you unattractive heavier.

 

What could he say that would satisfy you?

 

What if what you need to hear isn't true?

 

From earlier posts, you sound convinced that he will leave you no matter what. So what is the point of all this torture? Why not just end it now, rather than waiting for him to dump you?

 

Because I can't stand hearing over and over that it was my fault we broke up. I mean, more accurately, I can't stand people tell me self-righteously that if I'd just hung up, I'd still have a great relationship.

 

Every single one of my exes.... after they cheated on me, or said something mean to me, and I considered breaking up with them... every time people around me persuaded me against it, saying I should forgive, I'm too harsh, give them a chance.

 

I get it here on the board, too. I can't even end an FWB in which the guy just wanted me for sex without being told I "threw away a nice guy"!

 

It gets boring, then grating, then wears ya right down to your bones. It's hard enough being rejected.... being rejected AND being turned into the "bad guy" who was so mean to a poor innocent guy is even worse.

 

Do you remember my thread, way back last May, about the friend of mine who went into porn? I'd had a crush on him, we went on a few dates, he didn't seem that into me, so I just ended it? And how it resulted in some girl describing his penis to me in epic detail over the phone 6 months later and being threatened with a restraining order?

 

When I end relationships, it seems no matter the justification, I just get more flack on top of it.

 

As to what he could say... well, he finally admitted tonight that he doesn't like my chin, and wishes my hair was longer. That's pacified me. It means I can stop dwelling on what he MIGHT not like about me, because now I KNOW what he doesn't like. (Still think he's blind for not seeing the weight. But he did find me more attractive skinnier. At least there's that.)

[skydiveaddict]

I know people think they're being nice, but telling me I'm not fat when I clearly am, is not helpful.

 

But you're not fat. I plugged your ht/wt into a bmi calculator. You are in the healthy range. Meaning I bet you are a lot more attractive than you think.

 

You can do it for yourself here.