I can believe it

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Slow down hoss, when I was discussing that I was more referring to my last relationship more than the situation I'm in now. Olivia's post struch a chord with me that's all.

 

Could I love this man? Yes. Will I bandy the word about? No. I personally don't like to toss that word around.

 

i'm sorry but i just really believe being in a relationship with a guy because it's fun and it just MIGHT one day turn into love is a terribly wrong reason. i think it is selfish. there is too much potential to cause serious and deep pain for other people.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by HoldOn

Well, I, for one, am releived that you are not trying to use "love" as an excuse for your actions. I hate all these posts where women claim they are soooooooo in love with their f*ck buddies. At least you're honest and realistic.

 

true but if all you are really wanting is a **** buddy who is fun and ****able, why not choose a single guy (there are so many of them that would be delighted with such a relationship)? that way, who are you hurting?

[brashgal]

I don't think most of us on LS are even semi-professional therapists, you never know what a therapist might drag out of you when they are talking to you face to face.

[moimeme]

To me, sociopath suggests violent tendancies

 

Nope. A sociopath is one lacking in empathy or conscience. No guilt feelings. No remorse.

 

Sociopath: breaks rules and laws; takes advantage of other people for personal gain; feels little remorse or guilt; appears friendly and charming on the surface; often intelligent

http://www.rider.edu/~suler/perdis.html

[Mr Spock]

Ok. Well, I do my best to not break the law. I feel I'm very giving in my friendships-I try to be generous and kind.

 

Maybe this week I WILL choose a single guy to mess around with. Who knows what can happen? You keep asking me the same thing over and over again "Why not do this with a single guy" why pick someone who has an SO to hurt. Well, I suppose it's because I'm attracted to him, he's very attracted to me and we both want to express that attraction physically. I'd want to express it with him if he were single as well. I"m attracted to people, not to status.

[Mr Spock]

Oh, there are quite a few gals on here who keep me on my toes, mentally....

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Ok. Well, I do my best to not break the law. I feel I'm very giving in my friendships-I try to be generous and kind.

 

Maybe this week I WILL choose a single guy to mess around with. Who knows what can happen? You keep asking me the same thing over and over again "Why not do this with a single guy" why pick someone who has an SO to hurt. Well, I suppose it's because I'm attracted to him, he's very attracted to me and we both want to express that attraction physically. I'd want to express it with him if he were single as well. I"m attracted to people, not to status.

 

but that doesn't address this issue of the good possibility that you are going to hurt his family and you have absolutely no compassion for that.

[Mr Spock]

I do have some. Obviously, it's not outweighed by what I'm doing though. What do you want me to do about it? I

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

I do have some. Obviously, it's not outweighed by what I'm doing though. What do you want me to do about it? I

 

if you are asking me what i want, well, i want you to stop sleeping with married guys with families just because it's fun. i also want you to care about those people you might hurt. i want you to feel compassion.

 

but you shouldn't be asking me what i want. it isn't about what i want. i can't tell you what to do.

 

i guess i could ask you to search your heart though.

[Mr Spock]

I know, littleflowerpot-you keep asking me the same question. It's not soley because it's 'fun' -I just refuse to say the word "love" and to you it seems that is the only justificaton for sex-even though loving someone who isn't single doesn't make the sex any more correct.

[moimeme]

Spock, for whatever reason, you have decided that you 'deserve' to get whatever you want. Whatever issue is behind that, I don't know, but you will ruin your own life and those of others if you keep up. But even alcoholics cannot be persuaded that they are harming themselves. You're posting on LS for a reason - hell, maybe acting the part of a she-wolf makes you feel somehow exciting when you deep down don't believe you are at all. Maybe it's a huge quest for attention - certainly your posts get lots of attention. Whatever it is, it's dysfunctional and you'll end up less happy than if you quit and flew straight.

 

And if that doesn't persuade you that therapy might be useful (of COURSE you can't figure out what a therapist would tell you - if you could, you wouldn't need to go now would you?) then go ahead, jump off the cliff. We all tried to stop you but you were intent on making the leap. And when you're all broken and bruised, you'll crawl back again, sobbing, wanting sympathy when, as another poster has said, you walked out on the tracks and let the train hit you. Which, if you think of it, isn't too bright.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

I know, littleflowerpot-you keep asking me the same question. It's not soley because it's 'fun' -I just refuse to say the word "love" and to you it seems that is the only justificaton for sex-even though loving someone who isn't single doesn't make the sex any more correct.

 

okay but you were the one that told us you had no emotional attachment to this guy. and i don't think the only justification for sex with someone is love. i even told you that. i think there is nothing wrong with **** buddies. hell, i'm all for it! i just think it is wrong when the guy has a wife and kids and IF you don't love him. yes, i know that loving an attached guy does not make it right but i can at least understand it. it just seems so much wrong when you take the risk of hurting those people and you don't even love the guy.

[unluckylady]

I can't see that you have a problem here. You're enjoying being single and you have a casual interest in a married man. So what? I’m in exactly the same situation – so far (I can feel the feelings brewing, evidenced by the giddiness I experience when the phone rings and his name appears on the caller-ID). You're not going to get a prize for this but neither are you going to be tarred and feathered. As for fearing emotional intimacy being the reason why you seek MM as opposed to the generic SG, inherent to every relationship is the risk of getting hurt, so you face emotional intimacy now, with the MM, and otherwise, with a SG, doesn’t matter either way. And contrary to popular belief, the 'other woman' is as likely to 'win' a war over a man as his wife is. That's one of the reasons why there are so many divorces. This need to ‘win’ might be what’s motivating you here, very similar to the desire to have someone want you SOOOO badly that they would be willing to give up everything, or even just risk everything, to be with you. I know that feeling. I live it everyday.

 

While you are obviously very attracted to this man you seem to be quite dispassionate about it. Usually, people get involved in these situations first and think about it later. If you think it's 'wrong,' but cannot envision yourself crying over him once it ends (however it does) why don't you walk away NOW before you find yourself drowning in yours (or someone else’s – the SO or kids)?

 

If you pursue this relationship you will have no more powers of prediction about the future than you would have with an unmarried man. Anything could happen. This could be true love or you might find him irritating when you get to know him better. Perhaps he snores. Maybe he'll tell his wife about you. He might even leave his wife for you. You might get more than you bargained for. They say there are two great tragedies in life: not getting what you want, and getting it.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by moimeme

Spock, for whatever reason, you have decided that you 'deserve' to get whatever you want. Whatever issue is behind that, I don't know, but you will ruin your own life and those of others if you keep up. But even alcoholics cannot be persuaded that they are harming themselves. You're posting on LS for a reason - hell, maybe acting the part of a she-wolf makes you feel somehow exciting when you deep down don't believe you are at all. Maybe it's a huge quest for attention - certainly your posts get lots of attention. Whatever it is, it's dysfunctional and you'll end up less happy than if you quit and flew straight.

 

And if that doesn't persuade you that therapy might be useful (of COURSE you can't figure out what a therapist would tell you - if you could, you wouldn't need to go now would you?) then go ahead, jump off the cliff. We all tried to stop you but you were intent on making the leap. And when you're all broken and bruised, you'll crawl back again, sobbing, wanting sympathy when, as another poster has said, you walked out on the tracks and let the train hit you. Which, if you think of it, isn't too bright.

 

now this, spock, is tough love. but it is loving.

 

also, i hope you don't think i think i'm better than you. i've made terrible mistakes myself. but we have to learn from them, don't we? and don't we have a responsibility to try not to harm others with our actions especially for something as meaningless as a bit of fun?

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by littleflowerpot

okay but you were the one that told us you had no emotional attachment to this guy. and i don't think the only justification for sex with someone is love. i even told you that. i think there is nothing wrong with **** buddies. hell, i'm all for it! i just think it is wrong when the guy has a wife and kids and IF you don't love him. yes, i know that loving an attached guy does not make it right but i can at least understand it. it just seems so much wrong when you take the risk of hurting those people and you don't even love the guy.

 

Now you're putting words in my mouth-I never said I had no emotional attachment to this man. I just refuse to use love as an excuse for my actions. I feel too many people do when it's unwarranted.

 

As for therapy, likening what I'm doing to alcoholism isn't really a true and accurate match. I could tell you that you required therapy and when you (hypothetical you) stated that you didn't feel you needed it respond with "Well, of course you'd say that, you're in denial" for no reason. So it's not really a fair and accurate argument.

 

Do I feel that I'm unexciting, and that I'm compensating by playing a she wolf? It's doubtful. I can't help if if my posts get a lot of attention moimeme, I post what I feel, what I'm thinking at the time. My view of the world. We're all on LS for a reason, aren't we? Is that how you'd like to see me? Broken, cowed, admitting the error of my ways? So you can say "I told you so?"

[moimeme]

Um. No. I don't give a hoot, frankly, what you end up doing. It don't make no never mind to me. I mean, I'll be sorry if you end up a mess, but I'll also know you were warned and didn't take heed. Mind you, you are saying the exact same thing to others on another thread, aren't you?

[Mr Spock]

PS-I invited debate on my own personal situation...I LIKE debates, of all kinds. Don't think that yours and moimeme's responses are unwelcome, because they're not. Most of the times, the debates in this forum aren't this calm, or intelligent.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Now you're putting words in my mouth-I never said I had no emotional attachment to this man. I just refuse to use love as an excuse for my actions. I feel too many people do when it's unwarranted.

 

As for therapy, likening what I'm doing to alcoholism isn't really a true and accurate match. I could tell you that you required therapy and when you (hypothetical you) stated that you didn't feel you needed it respond with "Well, of course you'd say that, you're in denial" for no reason. So it's not really a fair and accurate argument.

 

Do I feel that I'm unexciting, and that I'm compensating by playing a she wolf? It's doubtful. I can't help if if my posts get a lot of attention moimeme, I post what I feel, what I'm thinking at the time. My view of the world. We're all on LS for a reason, aren't we? Is that how you'd like to see me? Broken, cowed, admitting the error of my ways? So you can say "I told you so?"

 

i'm sorry you feel that i've put words in your mouth. if i misinterpreted, i apologize. i went back and looked at the first page. no, you didn't say there was no emotional attachment. you said there was no "overwhelming emotion." you also said there was "no deep emotional attachment," which i suppose does not preclude there being any emotional attachment whatsoever. yet i still stand by my opinion that you are being selfish and i believe you are being horribly insensitive to his family.

 

i'm going to assume that your last two paragraphs were meant to be addressed to other posters besides myself because i didn't liken what you were doing to alcoholism nor did i opine that perhaps you were in this relationship because you enjoy being the shewolf.

 

again, if you feel attacked, i'm sorry you feel that way. however, i can only be honest about my opinion of what you are involved in.

[sinner]

and don't we have a responsibility to try not to harm others with our actions especially for something as meaningless as a bit of fun?

 

"Fun" might be meaningless to you and others, fp, but it's clearly not meaningless to Spock. Spock has told us that her need for physical/emotional intimacy (whether it involves f#cking or not) trumps her concerns about the consequences of her sexual play to herself and others. Spock's pleasure/moral calculus is different from that of the the LS moral mainstream. She makes no apologies and, in fact, almost invites stern moral imvective with her "this girl wants to have fun and f#ck you all" posts.

 

Spock is making the case for unconstrained hedonism. She's traveling 90mph without brakes or seat belt. If she's comfortable with these choices, therapy's a waste.

 

I hope you have insurance, Spock.

 

[Mr Spock]

Sorry littleflowerpot-I was responding to more than one post. I DO like this man. I do. I just won't make profound declarations of love.......

 

As for not giving a hoot moimeme, that's fine, but your statement of me jumping off the cliff and then come crawling back seems almost like a taunt. I try and dispense rational opinions where I see fit. Because I am sleeping with an attached man, does this mean I should not continue to do so on other threads? Regardless of the topic.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by sinner

"Fun" might be meaningless to you and others, fp, but it's clearly not meaningless to Spock. Spock has told us that her need for physical/emotional intimacy (whether it involves f#cking or not) trumps her concerns about the consequences of her sexual play to herself and others. Spock's pleasure/moral calculus is different from that of the the LS moral mainstream. She makes no apologies and, in fact, almost invites stern moral imvective with her "this girl wants to have fun and f#ck you all" posts.

 

Spock is making the case for unconstrained hedonism. She's traveling 90mph without brakes or seat belt. If she's comfortable with these choices, therapy's a waste.

 

I hope you have insurance, Spock.

 

 

i might agree with you if only she hadn't in her first post of this thread say "I can feel myself starting to slide into the same downward spiral I did last time." that doesn't sound like a great case for hedonism to me.

 

and yeah, if she makes no excuses for and feels no guilt about screwing someone else's man and possibly causing them and their kids any pain over it and she doesn't care who doesn't like it, that is her own business (well, hers and his family). that doesn't mean those of us that think she is wrong won't make our own case too.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Sorry littleflowerpot-I was responding to more than one post. I DO like this man. I do. I just won't make profound declarations of love.......

 

As for not giving a hoot moimeme, that's fine, but your statement of me jumping off the cliff and then come crawling back seems almost like a taunt. I try and dispense rational opinions where I see fit. Because I am sleeping with an attached man, does this mean I should not continue to do so on other threads? Regardless of the topic.

 

okay, you like him. is that a good reason for hurting his family if it comes down to that?

 

and yes, i do think you are going to get hurt again.

[Mr Spock]

Downward spiral of obession. And I was starting to slip. I HATED the control my exMM had over my life without even knowing it. Fortunately, I've had a better weekend and have managed to avoid getting sucked down. For now. I did have profound feelings of love and attachment for that man, and I was hurt, gravely. My moral grey area flexes and changes constantly to tell you the truth. Tomorrow, I may feel MUCH worse about this whole situation. Today, I don't.

 

Now I am starting to feel kind of bad that YOU all think I'm a sociopathic vampire who can't keep her legs shut....I think you'd like me if you ever met me.

[littleflowerpot]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Downward spiral of obession. And I was starting to slip. I HATED the control my exMM had over my life without even knowing it. Fortunately, I've had a better weekend and have managed to avoid getting sucked down. For now. I did have profound feelings of love and attachment for that man, and I was hurt, gravely. My moral grey area flexes and changes constantly to tell you the truth. Tomorrow, I may feel MUCH worse about this whole situation. Today, I don't.

 

Now I am starting to feel kind of bad that YOU all think I'm a sociopathic vampire who can't keep her legs shut....I think you'd like me if you ever met me.

 

no, i don't think you are a sociopathic vampire that can't keep her legs shut and i didn't say i don't like you. i don't even think you should keep your legs shut because sex is fun! i just have a problem with your own admitted disregard for his family.

[meanon]

Yes you feel fine now as you have that emotional control you need, the downward spiral no longer beckons. I hope it stays that way. Spock if you can have sex and avoid love and attachment, good luck to you. There's no need to delve into deeper motivation if you know you are simply after fun and fullfillment. His responsibilities are matters for his conscience.

 

If you do get sucked in you risk getting hurt again. You are just recovering from the hurt inflicted last time, take care. You don't need therapy, you are not ill but I do think talking helps uncover our sub conscious motivations. If you end up not having the fun you are after then it may well be worth exploring the attraction of the man who sacrifices all for you. It doesn't seem to me as if it's an ego thing, maybe the attraction of having that degree of power?