how do you tell your wife your miserable

[A1135]

I am struggling on how to get through to my wife that I am really unhappy with life at the moment and that it is mostly to do with her!

 

How do I tell her without devastating her as she thinks everything is fine, and I'm contemplating walking out the door. I just don't seem to exist in her eyes anymore, she says she cares etc but her actions tell a very different story.

 

So for those out there who have had the talk, how did you do it, as I just can't get myself to bring it up as it really is an ultimatum, change or risk loosing me.

 

 

Back story here for those that are interested.

 

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/327398-going-insane

[denise_xo]

If you feel it's too difficult to initiate this conversation on your own, one option could be to do it with a marriage counsellor.

 

I also recommend the book 'Radical Honesty' by Brad Blanton (originally recommended me by another LS member here, Ruby Slippers).

 

Try to just accept that she will initially feel shocked, hurt or devastated.

[belkin2]

Yeah, I think you will first need to get past the fact that it is going to hurt her initially. I commend you for wanting to spare her feelings while you are miserable, but if you are going to take any step towards your own happiness that first conversation has to happen and it will likely be a blow to her.

I think the biggest thing you can try to do in whatever you say is to not point blame. You can let her know about how unhappy you really are and why, but don't blame her for how things got that way.

So tell her how frustrated you are with your sex life and that you desire a much healthier and happier physical relationship with her and that you want to work together to get there. She may take it as you blaming her for withholding sex or whatever, but you can reassure her that you don't want to blame anyone for the past...be willing to look at what may have lead to it and accept that both of you had something to do with it. Then try to find common ground for a desire to rebuild together.

[JamesM]

As you may know, I am in a sexless marriage. I have been down the road you are traveling and farther...albeit not when I was as young as you. And I am traveling it now to an end that I don't know.

 

Having said that, I have weighed in my mind the benefits and costs of my marriage. I know very confidently that I want to be here with her and want to raise our kids together. I know that she is my best friend and while we have less sex than you, it is a "sacrifice" that I will make for now.

 

So, you need to decide what is most important: your marriage, your child, your needs. And if you choose your child above yourself, then will you be able to be in his/her life as you are now, or will this child grow up without you as a father?

 

Trust me...you are not going insane. You have resentment built up and anger for her. You feel cornered and powerless. You feel as if she controls you.

 

Perhaps that is why she does it.

 

I applaud you for seeking help even here on LS. I ask you if you have researched all possibilities as to what may cause this. Just because my marriage is sexless does not mean your will be like mine. There are others on here who have found solutions (per their words) to a sexless marriage. You may be one of them.

 

Don't walk until you know. As Janessays on your other thread, you could easily find another woman who does the same thing if you don't understand why it is happening in this marriage. In the process, your child will no longer have his parents together.

 

I can guarantee that there are ways to have the talk. The question is:what do you hope to gain from the talk? More sex? Not only is that selfish, but it is a short term goal. Closer intimacy? Then define what you mean and know what she means by intimacy. Define your goal and then plan your strategy.

 

I had such a talk and one of my threads explains it. In my case, the talk produced a short term solution of great sex for about six months. During that time, I told myself, "Self, enjoy this." I really can't say (looking back) that I anticipated it ending and didn't plan for it. Your talk may produce a fear in her because she simply wants to keep her family together, or it may produce a renewed love for you as she realizes that she is taking you for granted, or it may produce no results.

 

How to start? As has been said on your other thread by someone, find a book that explains what you feel and what your marriage needs because of what you are lacking. I did that. And then I told my wife that this needs to change. If she no longer wanted sex, then she shouldn't care if I found it elsewhere. And she responded with a great enthusiasm for sex.

 

But as I said, it didn't last. Ultimatums don't usually produce long term satisfying results.

 

Others here have had THE TALK, but their goal was different. While I wanted and still want...a mutually pleasurable experience with both my wife and I enjoying sex, these guys were satisfied with sexual relations that gave them satisfaction. They demanded to have a certain amount of sex to keep that marriage "happy." And per their words, they now have a happy marriage.

 

The only way to start this talk is by starting. As dumb as that sounds, you really need to simply start talking. There will never be a right time, but there are worse times and places. Do not pick a day that was stressful for the both of you. Do not choose a place that is around other people. And pick a time when both of you are in a decent mood with plenty of time. (My talk was at 1 am and lasted until 2 am! Not the best time. It was also in our living room just before we were going to bed. You can do better.)

 

The other very important thing is to know what she thinks. Why does she not want sex. What causes her to stay away from sex. What will be her objections. How will she probably respond. And be prepared with your responses too as many possible scenarios as possible.

 

Just do it. It will not be fun, but it is necessary. The longer you wait, the harder it gets, and the more resentful you feel.

[whichwayisup]

and I'm contemplating walking out the door. I just don't seem to exist in her eyes anymore, she says she cares etc but her actions tell a very different story.

 

You start by telling her exactly this!! That you feel she doesn't love you anymore, that she doesn't care. The words don't match the actions.. And it makes you feel awful, it hurts and it's enough to make you consider leaving her.

 

If she is willing to make more effort and do marriage counselling with you, would you give your marriage another shot before walking away? How 'done' are you being married to her?

[A1135]

Well unfortunately I didn’t get to take anyones advice prior to having the “Talk” and it just happened, at around midnight after a long day. Started chatting and one thing led to another and bam, big argument. So not the way that I had hoped or intended to broach the subject but hey at least it’s out there now.

 

So I explained to her that I don’t feel like she takes it seriously, and that makes me feel like she doesn’t care which I know isn’t true. I was very careful to not put any blame and to point out that it is OUR problem and that what we are doing isn’t working and so we need to try something different.

 

She got all upset, says she is trying and that some things are working for her like spending more couple time together, more sexy time with no intent of having sex. The usual woman thing though, I am supposed to just know that this is working, as all men are supposed to be mind readers. I finally got out of her that she doesn’t like watching porn by herself (even though I have seen the internet history which proves otherwise) so although her suggesting that it might help apparently it won’t now so that’s why she hasn’t watched any of the movies I got her 3 months ago after our last discussion.

 

I explained that having sexy time that never ends in sex is also counterproductive, perfect case in point, the other night she got home from aqua aerobics, asked me to join her in the shower, was all flirty and kissy in the shower. I tried my best not to get my hopes up. I got dressed and went back to watching TV; she came out in sexy underwear and paraded around made some suggestive comments and moves, then went back to the bedroom. I followed against my better judgement thinking its worth a try, as soon as I try to initiate SHUT DOWN. I’m left hot and bothered; she is left happy as she has got what she wanted.

 

We talked about the fact that I don’t think I turn her on at all, and she said that I do but she has to be in the mood. I explained that this is what I would call turning her on, the ability to get her from not interested to interested, so as I expected / knew I have no influence what so ever.

 

She says it really plays on her mind and that it upsets her that she can’t give me what I need. I think this is the issue that she has all this pressure put on her (mostly by herself) which is never going to lead to a positive outcome. She over thinks EVERYTHING so I have no idea how to get this pressure out of her head. Overall it’s really hard to not make it sound like it’s her issue, because she just won’t communicate as to what she wants me to do or not to do. I said that I will do ANYTHING she just needs to TELL ME.

 

Abelincoln – I have thought about this, while not to the extremes that you are suggesting but to just man up and not take no for an answer. Unfortunately in my case I am 99% sure it won’t work and the ramifications for me trying wouldn’t be worth the 1%.

 

DuckSoup – you sum it up perfectly! I have never been so mentally tormented by anything in my life. I run from each end of the spectrum from “I love her, so just suck it up and get used to the fact that we will never have the sexual relationship I want”, to “I’ve tried, nothing seems to get through, so maybe if I go and sleep with someone else it might give her the wake up call”. There are even days where I’m not sure that I love her in the same way anymore, and don’t go straight home. I have so much built up resentment and frustration that sometimes when I see her that’s all I see and think about. I really don’t hold out much hope of anything changing, which just makes me even more depressed, which makes me irritable, non-committal, an generally not fun to be around: all the things that will only help to turn her off more, and so the cycle of marriage continues.

 

I imagine the conversation will continue tonight and will hopefully be more constructive. Wish me luck!

[JamesM]

Well unfortunately I didn’t get to take anyones advice prior to having the “Talk” and it just happened, at around midnight after a long day. Started chatting and one thing led to another and bam, big argument. So not the way that I had hoped or intended to broach the subject but hey at least it’s out there now.

 

I have thought about this, while not to the extremes that you are suggesting but to just man up and not take no for an answer. Unfortunately in my case I am 99% sure it won’t work and the ramifications for me trying wouldn’t be worth the 1%.

 

There are even days where I’m not sure that I love her in the same way anymore, and don’t go straight home. I have so much built up resentment and frustration that sometimes when I see her that’s all I see and think about. I really don’t hold out much hope of anything changing, which just makes me even more depressed, which makes me irritable, non-committal, an generally not fun to be around: all the things that will only help to turn her off more, and so the cycle of marriage continues.

 

I imagine the conversation will continue tonight and will hopefully be more constructive. Wish me luck!

 

First off, congratulations on having "the talk." I think the best talks just happen. And the best way to do it is to tell her how you feel. No ultimatums, no threats, and no begging. Simply explaining what you need, what the marriage needs and why it is good for her. Now it is a wait and see.

 

Second, manning up doesn't have to mean demanding your way and being a dictator. What you did is manning up and asserting your feelings. You want her to want to change out of love for you not out of fear.

 

Third, for your own sake...find a way to get rid of the resentment and frustration. It won't help you or your health, and it won't make your marriage better (from experience).

 

And lastly, while I understand where Duck Soup is coming from, I would be hesitant to get the idea of her in an affair in your head. This could mess you up more than help. If this combined with her being gone at different times, or is he now dresses sexier to go out, or wears different perfumes, or acts all giddy when she leaves the house....then perhaps there is merit. Don't assume her motives for her.

 

Good luck!

[BetheButterfly]

I am struggling on how to get through to my wife that I am really unhappy with life at the moment and that it is mostly to do with her!

 

How do I tell her without devastating her as she thinks everything is fine, and I'm contemplating walking out the door. I just don't seem to exist in her eyes anymore, she says she cares etc but her actions tell a very different story.

 

So for those out there who have had the talk, how did you do it, as I just can't get myself to bring it up as it really is an ultimatum, change or risk loosing me.

 

I am sorry you are going through this.

 

You basically just need to sit her down and have the talk. Be brave and kind. Tell her, "I'm unhappy. I need sex more than what we are having. I feel unfulfilled sexually, which makes me sad because I love you and want to enjoy sex with you at least ___ times every ____."

 

Advice:

 

1. DON'T SAY anything negative with "You..." Don't make it about her. Rather, talk about what you feel. When you talk about her, use "You" in a positive way, like "You are so beautiful I just want to make love to you everyday!"

 

2. Don't let the issue stay unresolved. Work out a solution; compromise. Be brave, firm, and kind.

 

3. Don't cry, beg, have a hissy fit, or make a scene. Instead, be collected and in control of yourself. Be confident.

 

4. Ask her about when y'all first met and what changed (if she was more sexually active with you then). Take notes and work on any issues.

 

5. Don't threaten her. However, have prepared a list of solutions/compromises that you would like for her to consider.

 

6. Give a consequence. If she doesn't care enough about you to fulfill your sexual need of making love with her (your wife!) than make a reasonable, kind consequence. Both my husband and I need sex almost every day. If either he or I withheld sex, we would not do well at all together, and I would even consider divorce. (I don't know if my hubby would or not... we've never had that issue or talked about it.)

 

7. Emphasize that you love her, and for this reason you want to make things work.

 

I hope things work out.

[historian]

Sorry to hear about what you are going through. I just separated from my wife 2 weeks ago because of this sort of thing.

 

I don't know you and I don't know your situation, but I can tell you what I have learned these last few months.

 

The first thing I had to come to terms with was that our problems with sex were a symptom of much larger communication issues that both of us were responsible for. I felt much like it sounds like you did - shut down, rejected and frustrated. But the more I looked at it, the more I realized that this was something that extended well beyond the bedroom - I wasn't able or willing to communicate about what I needed (time off together, more openness, etc.) and in a way that registered with her. That's not all my fault (there were some moments of frustration where I was pretty explicit about how I felt) but it's something that I have been working through as I look forward - either to fixing this or starting something new. I've also found a therapist really helpful.

 

I think there is some forgiveness that needs to happen too. There is no easy way to have these talks. You are probably where you are because you don't want to hurt somebody you love and care about. It is - as you have found out - hard no matter how much you set the scene. I didn't know about these sorts of forums and mainly talked it through beforehand with friends and family that whose I opinion I trust (who could be objective). But you should also be able to expect some leeway from a partner who cares about you and your relationship. Things went horribly awry for me as my wife took everything I said to be an indictment of her - it reinforced a dynamic (I call it emotional judo) where she flips everything that I have to say and makes it about her. It made it impossible to express any frustration or unhappiness in a way that didn't soon require me to switch into comforting mode - bottling things up and building the frustration again. So be easy on yourself - this is super hard and has a lot to do with how your wife reacts to the situation.

 

The hardest thing though is understanding how the other person can be happy (or at least ok) with how things are going and how resistant to change they might be. I beat my head against a wall for 5/6 months and drove myself far crazier than I had been at the outset. I lost weight, checked out at work and pushed myself to a point where friends and family were legitimately worried about me. My wife admitted to me a few weeks ago that - during this entire time - she hadn't talked to anybody about this, hadn't bought any books or read what I suggested she take a look at, or do much of anything. Up until the end she was bailing on quality time I tried to set up for work (a major issue for me) and continually showed me how she took our relationship for granted. Since I said I was done she has bought every book she can think of and promised all sorts of change but I don't trust that it isn't just to get us back to where we were. Focusing on what I needed and my well-being was the only way forward.

 

So in the end I think a lot of it has to do with setting boundaries and how much you are willing to give. Figure out what you want and don't be afraid to ask for it. Take care of yourself. And pat yourself on the back for having the balls not to take an easier way out.

 

And thanks for making me feel less insane. It is so hard to not feel like an a-hole where so much else seems ok but the relationship leaves you feeling so frustrated and unfulfilled.

[MonsterMash]

I'm with the others who suggest that shes having an affair. Her behavior is NOT normal. I think its time for you to do some snooping on the downlow. Start with checking her cell bill for strange numbers called/texted on a regular basis.

 

I know you don't want to do it...but her behavior is screaming affair. And you have to protect your mental and physical well being.

[SunflowerKitten]

Hi A,

 

I cannot say I understand from your view because I am a woman, but i can relate to your situation and feelings and frustrations.

 

I want to try and help from showing you two different sides.

 

You can't just leave without discussing things with her and if you love her, trying any aspect to say that you did try everything possible.

I read the link to the original post back in May of this year.

 

I was going to respond there, and still will, but i apologize if i repeat myself in both places.

 

I understand how important sex is to you, i can read it in your posts, it jumps off the page at the readers.

It isn't the physical contact necessarily, for you, it is the connection you feel, the closeness, the physical touch and the spark of emotions and feelings that happens when you connect on that level, the skin to skin, ect.

The emotional side i know most men will familiarize that as being what is most important to a woman, but that is not always the case.

 

Some women are turned off by romance and passion, their bodies are made up differently and it takes different ways to get them "in the mood".

(if they had a trauma then some amount of pain is what triggers their arousal, if they were traumatized sexually, then being intimate with general parts will be out of the question for them because how scarred that attack made them).

 

Some need pain in general (S&M, whips, you know the lifestyle society views as freaky)

 

Some women absolutely love romance, affection, passion, intimacy, the entire "fairy tale package".

A single touch on the neck, stomach, lower back, will send a shiver and spark through their body, and the will be ready and waiting for what comes next from their passionate male mate.

 

I suggest you read up and educate yourself on every aspect of intimacy, but it will be over kill to do it all at once, do it gradually.

 

You said before you want to keep a spark and that fun element and the spontaneity in your marriages sex life, well, then look up things you haven't tried.

 

The shower trick might be getting old, she might feel it isn't as romantic or frisky because she might think you are expecting sex to happen when the shower is over, the running of a hot bath, the massaging her neck, all those things are part of the "norm".

 

Her body needs to maybe have a jump start.

After having a baby her hormones are crazy and might take a long time to go back to normal.

She doesn't feel beautiful, she doesn't feel sexy, her body has changed, her skin might have stretched, the breast feeding will help her lose they baby weight faster, but the breast feeding and the milk production, she might feel you are grossed out to put your mouth in the same place that your son feeds from.

She might feel the breast feeding has changed how her chest looks.

 

What i suggest for you is to have a discussion when you both are not in a heated mood (heated meaning upset and both on the defense because what she says to you upsets you more and what you say to her makes her feel you are attacking her).

 

You need to lay everything out on the table in front of a marriage sex therapist/counselor.

Not just a marriage counselor, but one who specializes in the relationship of a couple and their sexual issues.

Him or her may be able to tell you some things on how you are thinking of this too much, how to tone down it your mind that you aren't getting what you need.

She needs to open up to you and let you know why did her mood or attitude and actions towards you change 2 yrs ago?

 

Did she have a trauma back then?

Did her belief in herself and why she feels unattractive, did that change? What caused it to change so drastically?

 

You journal, well, i suggest you start a new page, write down what you think are the top 5 keys to you that are important for a marriage you are in, what basics you need.

 

Share them with her, see if she has any of the same top 5.

 

Sadly to say, sometimes as we age, sexual desire dies down, but it does not mean we chose for it to happen.

Peoples views of life and what they want change, best friends grow apart.

 

You have to reconcile that spark and see what made you fall in love with her, what you continue to see in her that makes you love her.

 

You can't just say you don't love her as much anymore because sex has changed, that isn't fair, but also, that is a big sign that there is a deeper issue.

 

Big thing - you feel you are trying so hard, you feel you are doing the right things.

 

But sit back a minute.

 

If roles were revered, if your wife kept telling you she wasn't happy because you didn't pay enough attention to her or because you didn't initiate or want to have sex with her enough.

How would you feel?

If it was told to you every month, or several times every month.

How would you feel?

Would you wonder if she is addicted to sex, or putting too much emphasis on it?

Would you feel sad and feel that you are not good enough or there is something wrong with you because you are not meeting your wife's needs and making her unhappy?

 

Now, after thinking about if you were in her position, what does that make you think and evaluate of how you have been telling her that the lack of sex in the marriage, the lack of her wanting sex in the way "you need it", that it is her problem that is making you unhappy.

 

How do you think she feels?

What do you think her state of mind is when she sees you upset?

 

She doesn't know how to handle hearing you tell her why you are down anymore, so that is why the discussions from her end have stopped when you confirm her worst fear by answering her question and saying its because i don't have sex.

 

You need to write down why you feel miserable.

Sex cannot be the only reason.

 

If it is, then you are starting to jump into and classify yourself as someone who has an obsession and addiction to sex, but you don't show us the general stereotype.

You aren't a reoccurring cheater, are you addicted to porn?

are you fascinated by alternative life styles (open relationships, swinging, ect).

 

So, since you don't want to have an affair, and it seems to not be jsut the sex in general that is making you miserable, you need to find the real cause, and work from there.

 

Here is a second side for you, hope it helps.

 

I am 29, I got married when I was 18, he was 24, we had three children together.

 

He became ill and disabled couldn't work when i was 21/22 and was 27/28.

I became his caregiver, i took care of him on his death bed,but he survived, was there by his side during surgeries, doc visits, hospital stays, drove him to and from.

 

The vows of husband and wife were no longer there, he didn't view me as a wife or respect me as his wife or the mother of his children, we were married on paper, but it ended long before that.

He didn't respect or appreciate all I did for him.

I never blamed him or hated him for the way life had changed, i treated him the same as i always did, I loved him, bent over backwards to make sure he could do what he wanted to do and have fun. I was cute and flirty and spontaneous and daring, the list goes on.

 

He changed over time into a man who wanted to control, but also close himself off, didn't want to go out and do things. He would ignore my spontaneity and outgoing personality to try and help cheer him up. Intimacy to him was about him feeling something and getting off. He started indulging himself and his time in sports games or staying on the computer, i would be ignored, so would our three children.

 

I had to have a hysterectomy at age 25 and had breast cancer at age 27, i never had him to be the supportive husband for me during this time, if i was sick, it was a burden to him because i wasn't there to take care of him. My husband wasn't there for me in sickness and in health, but i was always there for him during his sickness and health.

 

His actions changed me into someone who stopped having a social life, i would take the kids out to play dates or birthday parties on the weekends, and i always went to the y to work out, but i wasn't the same woman, and the disrespect and degrading, and being shut down and turned down, all that caused this change in myself.

 

I realized what was going on and what had happened to my marriage, i was always trying, but he never wanted to, so stopped even making a small effort yrs before. He had it made, he got the young girl, he trained her, he had an object to have sex with and get his rocks off, and the biggest, he had someone taking care of him and making all the money to support the kids and him.

What did he have to do?................Nothing.

 

I was doing what i thought was the duty of a good wife and mother and supporting us and keeping the family together, and i was honoring my vows.

 

However, the emotional, mental, and verbal abuse crippled me being able to grow during my young adult life, and it wasn't until I was 27/28 yrs old that I saw how i had been played and courted when i was 18, and i was shown a facade by a man i thought i loved, he showed me who he thought i wanted to see, and i fell for the engagement and marriage hook line and sinker.

He is the type who doesn't like affection or touch, doesn't like hugs or kisses, doesn't like being romantic and surprising with flowers/doing nice things just because he feels like it.

He showed me a different man when we were dating and got engaged though.

 

He knew i was and always have been the dreamy girl who loves any part of romance and love.

I tell how i feel for someone and i also show it.

I love romance, affection, passion, intimacy, holding hands, kisses, saying i love you, a connection on every level imaginable, pda, the nice gestures, just the small things that show someone how much they mean to you.

 

I knew how cruel the world was and that life and love are nto fairly tales.

 

As I said around age 27/28 - I finally had a voice and would speak up and stand up for myself.

 

I stuck out not having anyone to tell or show me that i was loved, attractive, appreciated, beautiful, or sexy for over 6 yrs. I stuck out not having equal passionate intimacy or a connection for probably the entire over 10 yr marriage.

I stuck out not having sex in my marriage for all this time.

 

I had to make the decision to leave and divorce when i saw that my kids deserved a better environment for their upbringing, and i had hoped i would find happiness in the future.

I separated last year at the age of 28, and my divorce was final in February this year, a month before i turned 29 (in march).

 

The marriage didn't end because of intimacy, it was so many factors all rolled into one big stress ball, that had already caused me to be sick twice and if i wanted my kids to have one healthy parent to raise them, then i had to make a change and a decision, which i did.

 

I don't know if anything I have said has helped, but look at the good things you have in your marriage.

You are newly married by a few yrs, you have your first child together.

You both are healthy, and still young.

Don't throw your love and marriage away by one thought that you are miserable.

[historian]

Oops, just read through your previous thread and realized how my advice misses the mark. I wish I had found that thread when I was going through the same stuff. It sounds like we have had almost the exact same trajectory over the exact same time.

 

So good luck man. As I said, I didn't want to give an ultimatum but my wife took me saying I'm done to be one. She has promised a whole heap of change and wants to talk everything out now. We'll see.

[whichwayisup]

I explained that having sexy time that never ends in sex is also counterproductive, perfect case in point, the other night she got home from aqua aerobics, asked me to join her in the shower, was all flirty and kissy in the shower. I tried my best not to get my hopes up. I got dressed and went back to watching TV; she came out in sexy underwear and paraded around made some suggestive comments and moves, then went back to the bedroom. I followed against my better judgement thinking its worth a try, as soon as I try to initiate SHUT DOWN. I’m left hot and bothered; she is left happy as she has got what she wanted.

 

That's just cruel of her to do this.

 

Time for marriage counselling. If not, your marriage is going to get worse and you'll grow to really resent, possibly hate her, as time goes on.

[A1135]

Well the aftermath chat was so much better! Calm, constructive, open and honest we talked about all sorts of things but to sum it up;

 

From Me (mostly as described previously so will be quick)

 

- Missing the connection and spark

- Want some spontaneity and variety

- Want some control, not always on her terms

- Will do anything to make her happy

- Starting to feel resentment and anger towards her

- She needs to talk to me more about what is working and what isn’t

- I know she cares and that it plays on her mind

- I am struggling to find my place and adjust to the new family unit. This is something that I haven’t probably detailed before. I find that since our son came along that I am giving and giving; I work all day and then look after him when I get home to give my wife a break and on weekends I spend as much time with him as possible. This time comes from the little time I used to have for myself; I now do nothing just for me. Sunday afternoon spent working on my car was the first time I did something for me in almost 8 Months. I also find that my wife now needs so much more emotional attention, so this combined with the attention I now give my son I am totally drained and have nothing more to give.

- What we are doing isn’t working

- I don’t want to go through our marriage resenting each other and letting this come between us. Me being miserable and leading to her being miserable isn’t an option and I am not going to let that happen.

 

From Her

 

- She does care and it hurts her to know that she can’t give me what I need

- She feels a lot of pressure. When I asked her if I did anything to pressure her she said not really and that it is mostly the pressure she puts on herself.

- She suggested that we see a sex therapist so that is something that we are going to look into.

- She would like me to be more decisive. This is something that as I have gotten more depressed and just don’t care about things as much I am really indecisive. Things like “what would you like for dinner” or “do you want to take the dog for a walk” are almost always met with “I don’t know” on my behalf.

- In a similar vein to above my unwillingness to get out and about. As above my self confidence has crashed a fair bit and I am really unsettled /nervous in social situations so I am more reluctant to go out with new people etc. - She is finding that exercise is helping so we are going to step this up and do some more together as well as apart. Eating a bit healthier too.

- She doesn’t find herself sexy at the moment after having our son. Bit of extra weight and big boobs (something she isn’t used too). I told her that I always find her sexy, and that for me a lot of sexiness comes from attitude and mentally, not from physical appearance. (In my opinion there are women that can be hot as hell but are in no way sexy) - She finds that spending time together in a flirty / sexual way without having sex helps her, but she understands that this just adds to my frustration and that sometimes it needs to end in sex.

 

As for her having an affair, I can rule that out, there is no way she has time for an affair and I do keep an eye out for the signs and there hasn’t been any that point that way. Whether she has had one in the past I am not sure, if she did I haven’t found any concrete evidence. Thinking about it or wondering at this stage isn’t going to be constructive for me so I am putting it out of my mind, if it comes up down the track that she had one and that is a contributing factor then I will deal with it when and if it ever comes up.

 

Something I should add that I have realised that I need to work on and address is my level of honesty with my wife. I almost always find myself holding back and not giving my full opinion or showing the full extent of my feelings when we discuss things. This is a learnt behaviour as over the years I have found that when we go through a hard time that I need to be the rock in our relationship, my wife needs me to hold it together. The two biggest events have been when my wife had a big falling out with one of her best friends leading up to our wedding. Now this is a long story but the highlights were that my wife had every reason to be upset at our friend, this friend was the wife of my best friend who I had known for 20 years. In one afternoon I lost my best friend, and subsequently lost part of my partner’s personality as the whole experience lead to a little bit of her spark dying. I had to be strong and look after my partner, to give her support, but I had no support and never got to really deal with my feelings. Similarly with having children, we suffered 2 miscarriages before having a successful pregnancy, these are truly heartbreaking for all involved but again I had to be the strong one, I had to hold back my feelings. This holding back to protect her feelings is just hurting me and in turn hurting us as a couple, so its something that I have to change in myself.

 

Overall it was a really good discussion and it has started the dialogue and given me confidence that she is at least willing to step it up a bit and try some more to work this through together. Hopefully by making some small adjustments to lots of variables we might find the magic combination.

[Sauron]

Uhhh I have a wife similar to yours. She likes intercourse though, one way, the only way, every time, lots of rigid rules, with lots of don't's, stop doing that,and don't touch me there, etc,etc. I went through all your are going through, the talks, the changes, I begged, screamed, reasoned, pleaded, guilted, placated, and in the end she failed every single time to remotely try and find mutual ground on sex issues. She is incapable, lazy and mentally warped about sex. Don't know how long you been married, but I will say that a month turns into 6, a year in to 5, then 10, 15. Some women are so inhibited, especially after child birth, that they are lost causes in my opinion, and you realize they will never change, ever no matter what you do. All it takes is finding a sexually unhibited women to see what it should be like. Good luck to you.

[strongnrelaxed]

You can never ever tell your woman how you really feel. She will hold this against you for the rest of your life together. I promise you this. Actually, you know this to be true; otherwise you would not need advice on how to be honest with

 

If you have some male friends, tell them. Drink a few beers and get back home and take care of business.

 

What the hell did you think you were going to feel like when you said "I do"?

 

I have been on these boards repeating the same things over and over - and getting squealed at by some old biddies about how I am a bitter idiot. So I read your post and all I can do is laugh at the absurdity of it all. Literally two clicks away in another thread, women are talking about how men love marriage and how great things are for men.

 

This place is becoming ever more amusing by the day.

 

 

Forgive me brother, if I seem crass. I am dumbfounded that so many men keep falling for the same marriage scam and then wind up where you are now - and where I was last year.

 

Tell that to some of the women here and see what happens!

 

Good luck. You are not alone.

 

By the way, any woman here who tells you to just "tell her how you feel" is setting you up for a major battle. They do not know what it is like to be a man and have to tiptoe around a woman's feelings for eternity.

 

You can't say I didn't warn you.

[strongnrelaxed]

I read your other thread.

 

Your wife is incredibly spoiled, selfish, lazy (from the standpoint of being a true wife to you), has no respect for you and completely takes you for granted.

 

She thinks she can set the sexual terms of the marriage no matter how much it hurts you. She has no consideration whatsoever for your feelings.

 

The next time (tonight) you initiate sex--and I said INITIATE it--don't "ask" for it--you just start kissing her all over, and start removing whatever nightwear she is wearing. In fact you should go to bed naked yourself.

 

If she asks why you're naked, tell her "We're going to have sex tonight and I thought this would save time of me getting undressed."

 

Typically women like your wife will respond with rolling eyes, sneering, mocking, sarcastic remarks, perhaps rolling over and showing her back to you, completely cutting you down.

 

If she does that you have at least two options--1) you tell her this is the marital bed and only women who have sex with you get to sleep in it. Tell her to go sleep on the couch.

 

2)< Masturbate in front of her>

 

I say Abe Lincoln for President! Bravo Abe... Bravo.

[strongnrelaxed]

Uhhh I have a wife similar to yours. She likes intercourse though, one way, the only way, every time, lots of rigid rules, with lots of don't's, stop doing that,and don't touch me there, etc,etc. I went through all your are going through, the talks, the changes, I begged, screamed, reasoned, pleaded, guilted, placated, and in the end she failed every single time to remotely try and find mutual ground on sex issues. She is incapable, lazy and mentally warped about sex. Don't know how long you been married, but I will say that a month turns into 6, a year in to 5, then 10, 15. Some women are so inhibited, especially after child birth, that they are lost causes in my opinion, and you realize they will never change, ever no matter what you do. All it takes is finding a sexually unhibited women to see what it should be like. Good luck to you.

 

I have had the opposite problem with my wife. I am a bit too "manly" for her. When I want sex, I just initiate it. She actually prefers it this way. I have grabbed her by the arm many times and told her to get upstairs and I slapped her on the @ss and screwed her until she fell asleep like a little kitty cat. It is a good feeling to see your woman drool on her pillow after a good f-ing.

 

The problem is that if you slip even once from the position of strength - get sick, feel tired, have a headache, get stressed at work, need a day off - and you will wind up like Sauron. Sauron seems like a decent human being, but his woman, like all women, have unrealistic expectations of men and resent them for showing their humanity.

 

Any woman who says otherwise is lying - period.

[strongnrelaxed]

Well unfortunately I didn’t get to take anyones advice prior to having the “Talk” and it just happened, at around midnight after a long day. Started chatting and one thing led to another and bam, big argument. So not the way that I had hoped or intended to broach the subject but hey at least it’s out there now.

 

So I explained to her that I don’t feel like she takes it seriously, and that makes me feel like she doesn’t care which I know isn’t true. I was very careful to not put any blame and to point out that it is OUR problem and that what we are doing isn’t working and so we need to try something different.

 

She got all upset, says she is trying and that some things are working for her like spending more couple time together, more sexy time with no intent of having sex. The usual woman thing though, I am supposed to just know that this is working, as all men are supposed to be mind readers. I finally got out of her that she doesn’t like watching porn by herself (even though I have seen the internet history which proves otherwise) so although her suggesting that it might help apparently it won’t now so that’s why she hasn’t watched any of the movies I got her 3 months ago after our last discussion.

 

I explained that having sexy time that never ends in sex is also counterproductive, perfect case in point, the other night she got home from aqua aerobics, asked me to join her in the shower, was all flirty and kissy in the shower. I tried my best not to get my hopes up. I got dressed and went back to watching TV; she came out in sexy underwear and paraded around made some suggestive comments and moves, then went back to the bedroom. I followed against my better judgement thinking its worth a try, as soon as I try to initiate SHUT DOWN. I’m left hot and bothered; she is left happy as she has got what she wanted.

 

We talked about the fact that I don’t think I turn her on at all, and she said that I do but she has to be in the mood. I explained that this is what I would call turning her on, the ability to get her from not interested to interested, so as I expected / knew I have no influence what so ever.

 

She says it really plays on her mind and that it upsets her that she can’t give me what I need. I think this is the issue that she has all this pressure put on her (mostly by herself) which is never going to lead to a positive outcome. She over thinks EVERYTHING so I have no idea how to get this pressure out of her head. Overall it’s really hard to not make it sound like it’s her issue, because she just won’t communicate as to what she wants me to do or not to do. I said that I will do ANYTHING she just needs to TELL ME.

 

Abelincoln – I have thought about this, while not to the extremes that you are suggesting but to just man up and not take no for an answer. Unfortunately in my case I am 99% sure it won’t work and the ramifications for me trying wouldn’t be worth the 1%.

 

DuckSoup – you sum it up perfectly! I have never been so mentally tormented by anything in my life. I run from each end of the spectrum from “I love her, so just suck it up and get used to the fact that we will never have the sexual relationship I want”, to “I’ve tried, nothing seems to get through, so maybe if I go and sleep with someone else it might give her the wake up call”. There are even days where I’m not sure that I love her in the same way anymore, and don’t go straight home. I have so much built up resentment and frustration that sometimes when I see her that’s all I see and think about. I really don’t hold out much hope of anything changing, which just makes me even more depressed, which makes me irritable, non-committal, an generally not fun to be around: all the things that will only help to turn her off more, and so the cycle of marriage continues.

 

I imagine the conversation will continue tonight and will hopefully be more constructive. Wish me luck!

 

After reading this, I can see exactly why you are in the shoes you are in. There is a site called no more mr nice guy. Check it out and that will explain all of your troubles better.

 

Good luck.

[A1135]

Your wife had an affair with your so-called "best friend" way back when, it sounds like before you got married.

 

The falling out seemed to be about something entirely different but guaranteed that's what it really was all about.

 

The best friend's wife found out about it. Unfortunately they all conspired to not tell you, out of fear that you would cancel the wedding.

 

I guarantee this is what happened.

 

 

Haha thats a long shot. The time when She might have if at all came after that time, but I can definately rule the above out.

[A1135]

After reading this, I can see exactly why you are in the shoes you are in. There is a site called no more mr nice guy. Check it out and that will explain all of your troubles better.

 

Good luck.

 

 

Someone else suggested this book, so I will grab a copy and have a read.

 

Thanks to everyone who has commented or read, this is a common issue so hopefully through sharing our experiences and opinions it may help us to get through.

[AnotherRound]

Someone else suggested this book, so I will grab a copy and have a read.

 

Thanks to everyone who has commented or read, this is a common issue so hopefully through sharing our experiences and opinions it may help us to get through.

 

I read your threads, and I just want to say, I think it's so freakin' unfair that some women do this to men in marriage. That they cut off one of the most important connections AFTER they have the marriage certificate and the babies and the house, etc. Then, expect the man to stay, even though they don't want to discuss it, figure it out, fix it. It pisses me off every time I read about it. I know that most of them aren't doing it maliciously, but jesus... what did they think was going to be involved in marriage????

 

And, it irritates me too when women pretend to have a stronger sex drive than they really have to "snag" a man - then, "oh, I don't like it really". It's dishonest, and unfair when they could at least wait until they find someone that they are sexually compatible with so that they don't trick a man into a situation that he can't get out of without giving up half of his life too. Why do the women get to withhold such an important part of the marriage and the men are expected to leave if they don't like it and give up half of everything that they have worked for? How the eff is that fair?

 

Sorry, I know you're already stressed in the situation, but honestly, each time I read about this, it ticks me off - for men, and on behalf of the rest of women. I think that men should be able to divorce women on that grounds alone (if there are no medical issues, obvs)- and keep 100% of their assets and have the kids most of the time. Maybe then women would stop pretending to be something that they aren't just so they can get married and stop trying.

 

I know that we all have moods, and ups and downs - I get that. No couple is in the mood at the same time all the time. But just be honest! If you are a woman who doesn't like oral, or doesn't enjoy sex, or doesn't want to have sex more than once a year - freakin' be honest! Otherwise, you are tricking the man into marrying you on false pretenses. He is signing up for one thing and getting another thing entirely! (and I'm only saying it as women bc that seems to be how it happens mostly).

 

I admit, I have a higher sex drive than most women - but I'm honest about it. There have been men that couldn't keep up with me that way, and I didn't pretend to be different so that they would marry me. I cut my losses and moved on. Because if you are honest with the people you are marrying, a LOT Of these marriages would have never taken place bc the other person would KNOW that you were incompatible from the get go. And, then to get mad at someone bc they don't want to give up half of what they have worked for, and have no other recourse but to do so - wtf?

 

This is why marriage doesn't work. People, women especially, need to start being honest with their partners about what they want in a marriage. Just want kids and a man to bring home the bacon? Effing say that then! Don't trick someone into marrying you and then get mad when they are resentful that you changed the rules mid game on them. Love only goes so freakin' far if two people aren't connecting regularly sexually - the only way they connect with their marital partner that is different than how they connect with everyone else in the world. If you stop giving them that, then you are breaking the vows first - and anything that follows is your own karma for being dishonest and manipulating someone so that you could get your all important goal - marriage.

 

Rant over. Jesus... this whole topic ticks me off.