xxoo Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Ugh, I give up. You all want to be convinced that love is Rainbows and Feelings, and that relationships that last aren't build on practical considerations (who is the breadwinner, what sort of lifestyle do you want, how is the sex gonna be after she's gained 15 pounds, do you understand each other's hobbies, etc.) then go ahead. Some of you have gotten lucky. Me, I'd rather live practically. And dating someone outside your league is NOT practical. Practical considerations are important. And practical considerations may be enough for some. But relationships built on the practical alone are vulnerable to love affairs--when one partner meets someone who lights them up. That person is not always prettier or smarter, by the way! That person is just someone they fall in love with....and easily if they aren't in love with their spouse. Relationships built on real love, with basic compatibility, can last and be very happy. Job changes? Weight changes? Different hobbies? We've dealt with all that, no biggie, because we love each other. There is a middle ground. I wouldn't want a relationship based only in love, or only in practicalities. Both are ideal.
Author verhrzn Posted September 6, 2012 Author Posted September 6, 2012 Well, I don't think the way you are paraphrasing this sums up the discussion at all. I, as well as several other people, have pointed out that relationships are to a great extent about communication and hard work. But we have taken issue with the particular way in which you frame the question of leagues and compatibility. And yes, a lot of marriages are affected by infidelity. But if you view that as a reason not to be a relationship, then you just have to opt out of relationships, period. If you don't view it as a reason in itself not to be in a relationship, then it's something that has to be addressed within a relationship. Infidelity is dramatically reduced when the partners have the best they can get. My question to the forum is, why wouldn't he cheat/dump if he could get better, and the answer I always get back is "love! feelings!" That answer is not practical or even provable.
Author verhrzn Posted September 6, 2012 Author Posted September 6, 2012 because nothings practical about love. thats why. Gee, how fun. And if you're so convinced I have it better, go get sex from a hooker or get yourself a best female friend who doesn't find you attractive but loves having you boost her ego, and then we'll have equivalent experiences.
xxoo Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Infidelity is dramatically reduced when the partners have the best they can get. Do you have evidence for that? If you want reassurance that your partner will never be able to get anyone smarter or prettier, you're screwed....because all of our partners could potentially get someone more attractive of smarter. I could. My H could. But why would we want to do that? Give up him? Give up me? No way! Somehow, the rest of us don't freak out about that, even though it is probably true for all of us.
xxoo Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 V, do you have a best friend? A niece or nephew you adore? A pet you love? Would you trade this favorite person/animal for a more attractive or smarter one? Just discard them, and trade up?
ThaWholigan Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Infidelity is dramatically reduced when the partners have the best they can get. My question to the forum is, why wouldn't he cheat/dump if he could get better, and the answer I always get back is "love! feelings!" That answer is not practical or even provable. How the **** do you know he will cheat on you?
denise_xo Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Infidelity is dramatically reduced when the partners have the best they can get. My question to the forum is, why wouldn't he cheat/dump if he could get better, and the answer I always get back is "love! feelings!" That answer is not practical or even provable. The answers I've been reading are: - people have different priorities, therefore what you perceive as 'best' might not be everyone else's 'best' - when a person feels love for someone else and has built a history with that person, it's not a given that the next better looking man/woman is seen as a better catch, for a whole range of reasons that have been elaborated above. That's not 'lala emotional' stuff, they are empirical observations. Infidelity is a quite complex issue in itself. Sometimes it's just about sex, sometimes it's about a marriage that has been neglected and couples that have drifted apart, sometimes it's a lack of reinforcement of appropriate boundaries, sometimes it's people's low self esteem that have been fed in unhealthy ways, and so on and so forth. You really can't boil all that down to 'the person found someone better'.
Author verhrzn Posted September 6, 2012 Author Posted September 6, 2012 How the **** do you know he will cheat on you? Because everyone else has. If every single guy I've been romantically involved has treated me in the same way, probably means there is something about me. AKA, I am not a prize they feel sad about losing. Probability again... if something always happens, then logic says it will continue to happen.
Lonely Ronin Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Infidelity is dramatically reduced when the partners have the best they can get. My question to the forum is, why wouldn't he cheat/dump if he could get better, and the answer I always get back is "love! feelings!" That answer is not practical or even provable. As many others have said in one fashion or another, you don't know what the hell he wants. You assume all he cares about is hot smart, and makes a lot of $$$. 1
Author verhrzn Posted September 6, 2012 Author Posted September 6, 2012 As many others have said in one fashion or another, you don't know what the hell he wants. You assume all he cares about is hot smart, and makes a lot of $$$. ... Yeah, gee, he would really HATE to be with someone who was hot, smart, and rich. I bet that'd be just totally against his wishes. Ugly, dumb and poor is MUCH more his style.
Pirouette Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Infidelity is dramatically reduced when the partners have the best they can get. My question to the forum is, why wouldn't he cheat/dump if he could get better, and the answer I always get back is "love! feelings!" That answer is not practical or even provable. Truthfully, how many relationships do you see where both are evenly matched on paper? Most that I know, one is always conventionally seen as a "better" catch. Yet they persist and marry and have families. Number one, he shouldn't cheat because if he's any sort of decent person he won't. Would you cheat if faced with a better opportunity mate? Number two, if he's happy with you and not actively looking, the chances of him coming across someone who is better than you in ALL ways, who spends enough time with him for him to discover that this is true, who is single, and would want to be with him, is statistically not that high. Tell me, in your above scenario how do all these couples know that they've gotten the best they can get? And why don't you personally look for that?
Author verhrzn Posted September 6, 2012 Author Posted September 6, 2012 Truthfully, how many relationships do you see where both are evenly matched on paper? Most that I know, one is always conventionally seen as a "better" catch. Yet they persist and marry and have families. Number one, he shouldn't cheat because if he's any sort of decent person he won't. Would you cheat if faced with a better opportunity mate? Number two, if he's happy with you and not actively looking, the chances of him coming across someone who is better than you in ALL ways, who spends enough time with him for him to discover that this is true, who is single, and would want to be with him, is statistically not that high. Tell me, in your above scenario how do all these couples know that they've gotten the best they can get? And why don't you personally look for that? I wouldn't, but that's because I couldn't attract anything better. I am at the top of my league. Heck, as posters have said on here, my league is apparently overweight, unemployed men. He's going to spending tons and tons of time in grad school with single women his age, who understand his area of interest, who are intelligent like him (I am not, considering I have no shot at grad school), and have promising careers ahead of them. He will be spending more time with them than me... classes, late night study sessions, etc. Plus the fact that they will understand what sort of stress he is under, while I will not. Those are some pretty big factors in seeing THEM as more compatible. And yeah, I'd say that in of the successful couples, all of them believed they got the best. If they didn't, they would have left. Posters seem convinced that love makes people stay even if their partner isn't the best option. They have the order wrong... people fall in love because they found the best option. I am not his best option, so WHY would he fall in love?
kae Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 hi darling, you sound like u have a scewed idea of dating.. there are no leagues ..there`s a planet and then there`s people.. we all die empty handed and alone.. that foundamental truth gives me confidence that blows people out of the water. i hope it helps. dont overthink.
Lonely Ronin Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 ... Yeah, gee, he would really HATE to be with someone who was hot, smart, and rich. I bet that'd be just totally against his wishes. Ugly, dumb and poor is MUCH more his style. Yo are pretty dense aren't you.... let me break it down and make it 100% analytical. for the sake of keeping it simple lets pick 5 traits (most people have more) that you get compared to others on and give them a score of 1 to 10. a = physical attractiveness b = intelligence c = ability to attain wealth d = compassion e = dependability now we need to have a weighting scheme because people care about different things more. the weights range from 0 to 1 and are dependent on the person. v = weight for a w = weight for b x = weight for c y = weight for d z = weight for e lets consider R the calculated rating of a person and D an acceptable deviation. R = (a*v + b*w + c*x + d*y + e*z)/5 a little bit more math and then we are done. he rates himself and comes up with Rm and decided he will accept a woman of Rm - Dm you do the same and come up with Rf =- Df he rates you and comes up with Rfm and you rate him and come up with Rmf the only thing that matter is: Rm - Dm <= Rfm and Rf - Df <= Rmf Most people do this instinctively. What you don't grasp is that most people won't accept toss away someone who satisfy the equation for someone who might. Might is the key word, because for some people the traits they care about are not something you can easily learn about a person. Divorces break ups etc happen because, the traits and weights change over time, and one side of the equation becomes unbalanced.
Pirouette Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 I wouldn't, but that's because I couldn't attract anything better. I am at the top of my league. Heck, as posters have said on here, my league is apparently overweight, unemployed men. He's going to spending tons and tons of time in grad school with single women his age, who understand his area of interest, who are intelligent like him (I am not, considering I have no shot at grad school), and have promising careers ahead of them. He will be spending more time with them than me... classes, late night study sessions, etc. Plus the fact that they will understand what sort of stress he is under, while I will not. Those are some pretty big factors in seeing THEM as more compatible. And yeah, I'd say that in of the successful couples, all of them believed they got the best. If they didn't, they would have left. Posters seem convinced that love makes people stay even if their partner isn't the best option. They have the order wrong... people fall in love because they found the best option. I am not his best option, so WHY would he fall in love? Clearly, people don't think your league is bottom of the barrel if they're telling you that you are good enough for this guy. If what he wants is someone in the same field, making the same pay, and who looks like one of his porn actresses, then no, you are not what he wants and he should be direct and honest in saying so. What if he wants something different though? Have you asked him? What if you possess all the qualities he wants in a longterm partner? As I said before, you and your partner deserve honesty, kindness and fidelity. You should be able to talk about these things. If either of you are no longer feeling it, you should have the integrity to be straight up about it. And I think with those couples, it's not that they feel that they've found the best in the world, because logically we all know that it likely isn't so. They just know what they do want in a partner and once they find that and are happy, what use is there in looking for and holding out for someone they might never come across?
denise_xo Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Yo are pretty dense aren't you.... let me break it down and make it 100% analytical. for the sake of keeping it simple lets pick 5 traits (most people have more) that you get compared to others on and give them a score of 1 to 10. a = physical attractiveness b = intelligence c = ability to attain wealth d = compassion e = dependability now we need to have a weighting scheme because people care about different things more. the weights range from 0 to 1 and are dependent on the person. v = weight for a w = weight for b x = weight for c y = weight for d z = weight for e lets consider R the calculated rating of a person and D an acceptable deviation. R = (a*v + b*w + c*x + d*y + e*z)/5 a little bit more math and then we are done. he rates himself and comes up with Rm and decided he will accept a woman of Rm - Dm you do the same and come up with Rf =- Df he rates you and comes up with Rfm and you rate him and come up with Rmf the only thing that matter is: Rm - Dm <= Rfm and Rf - Df <= Rmf Most people do this instinctively. What you don't grasp is that most people won't accept toss away someone who satisfy the equation for someone who might. Might is the key word, because for some people the traits they care about are not something you can easily learn about a person. Divorces break ups etc happen because, the traits and weights change over time, and one side of the equation becomes unbalanced. This has to be my favourite post for the week
oaks Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Yo are pretty dense aren't you.... Well she did say what her GPA was, but I didn't understand it as it's not a system I'm familiar with.
Author verhrzn Posted September 6, 2012 Author Posted September 6, 2012 Clearly, people don't think your league is bottom of the barrel if they're telling you that you are good enough for this guy. If what he wants is someone in the same field, making the same pay, and who looks like one of his porn actresses, then no, you are not what he wants and he should be direct and honest in saying so. What if he wants something different though? Have you asked him? What if you possess all the qualities he wants in a longterm partner? As I said before, you and your partner deserve honesty, kindness and fidelity. You should be able to talk about these things. If either of you are no longer feeling it, you should have the integrity to be straight up about it. And I think with those couples, it's not that they feel that they've found the best in the world, because logically we all know that it likely isn't so. They just know what they do want in a partner and once they find that and are happy, what use is there in looking for and holding out for someone they might never come across? Because a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Why would he dump me, before he can actually get a girl he wants? All the other guys I've dated just used me as a place holder; why would he be different? Furthermore, the things he claims he wants in a long term partner... financial stability, intelligence, etc.... are things that the grad students around him are ALSO going to have, and are going to have MORE of. Why settle for less when you can get more? He's only 25... in no rush to settle down.
Lonely Ronin Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Furthermore, the things he claims he wants in a long term partner... financial stability, intelligence, etc.... are things that the grad students around him are ALSO going to have, and are going to have MORE of. Why settle for less when you can get more? He's only 25... in no rush to settle down. The ability to make more money doesn't mean someone is financially stable. I know people who make a lot more than me, but they aren't stable because they blow it all. A graduate degree or any degree for that matter doesn't equate to greater intelligence. Imo grad school is more about how many hoops are you willing to jump through and how much BS are you willing to put up with than how smart you are.
Author verhrzn Posted September 6, 2012 Author Posted September 6, 2012 The ability to make more money doesn't mean someone is financially stable. I know people who make a lot more than me, but they aren't stable because they blow it all. A graduate degree or any degree for that matter doesn't equate to greater intelligence. Imo grad school is more about how many hoops are you willing to jump through and how much BS are you willing to put up with than how smart you are. You have to get good grades in order to get into grad school, and do well on tests.... traditional measures of intelligence. And either way, those girls will have stable careers and I will be flipping burgers. So, try again.
Pirouette Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) Because a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Why would he dump me, before he can actually get a girl he wants? All the other guys I've dated just used me as a place holder; why would he be different? Furthermore, the things he claims he wants in a long term partner... financial stability, intelligence, etc.... are things that the grad students around him are ALSO going to have, and are going to have MORE of. Why settle for less when you can get more? He's only 25... in no rush to settle down. Because real relationships do take work, and ultimately I think most people would rather not work at a relationship that they know they do not want. So I would ask you, are you expecting him to fulfil your needs or are you trying so hard to be easy and pleasant that it makes no difference to him whether he's in a relationship or not. Did he get into any other qualities that weren't quite so generic? Are you ready to settle down? I think you are and if he isn't then that's a fundamental incompatibility which may be fuelling a lot of your insecurities. If he wants you to move with him, that's a big step towards settling down, so if it comes with no understanding of where you guys are going in the future, then it is the wrong move for you. Edited September 6, 2012 by Pirouette
Lonely Ronin Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 You have to get good grades in order to get into grad school, and do well on tests.... traditional measures of intelligence. And either way, those girls will have stable careers and I will be flipping burgers. So, try again. again, you assume he cares about these specific topics as much as you do.
Ami1uwant Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Except some of the very same people who are questioning the existence of leagues are the same posters who have supported the idea of leagues in other places. So, what, do they just enjoy arguing with me?? And yeah, I've gotten "advice." But it's been the same unrealistic advice that ignores my experiences, all rainbows and fluffy esteem. "Oh V you ARE attractive... even though you absolutely never get hit on, guys have dumped you for being ugly, and there is no real world evidence at all that you are. But I say you are, because everyone is!" Is advice really helpful if it doesn't address the reality of a situation? Yeeeeeah, that doesn't work, because I spent most of my life not being miserable, and still got no attention. However, I did spend my entire life being ugly, so... I do believe that there are "leagues" but it depends greatly on the user. Studies have shown that if you rate people from 1-10 with 10 the best looking you tend to get 8s with those 7-9, 6s with those 5-7...basically +/- 1 of your rating. You sometimes can get those +/-2....anything beyond that there is usually some other underlying issue in them...like she is a 8 but ends up with a 5 because he is wealthy or she feels she can trust him because he is less likely to cheat or look at other women because she is insecure with this. These qualities people look for are hard to measure because with quite a few people out there including myself it takes alot more than just looks alone. I am a realist. I know Im not a 10 there is no chance I am even going to try and date a women who I thought was a 9. I am a realist. I need to learn who she is before attraction comes out in me. The other piece in this are "socio-economic leagues" and these are more driven by women much more than men. Quite a few men beleive they need to be the bread winner for women so they either are ashamed if they date a woman who makes more than them or they think she doesnt want to date him because of the money difference. It comes out of the princee/rescuer fantasy where a man will come and save her. In surveys done quite a few financially successful women still feel they need to date a man who makes more or is equivalent in socioeconomic rank to her in profession. One of the classes is in doctors, lawyers, university professors, and corporate executives. Men have much less an issue if they are a soctor/lawyer or whatever dating someone who is an "average" person than women are.
Ami1uwant Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Ugh, I give up. You all want to be convinced that love is Rainbows and Feelings, and that relationships that last aren't build on practical considerations (who is the breadwinner, what sort of lifestyle do you want, how is the sex gonna be after she's gained 15 pounds, do you understand each other's hobbies, etc.) then go ahead. Some of you have gotten lucky. Me, I'd rather live practically. And dating someone outside your league is NOT practical. I dont believe it at all.. For marriage to work its based on compatability and being able to function as a unit in life. It isnt about who make the money...it isnt about her or him gaining 15 lbs. I dont look at doctor and teach differentely...sure a teacher makes alot less...but it says nothing about intelligence and other qualities in the person.
Ami1uwant Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Because everyone else has. If every single guy I've been romantically involved has treated me in the same way, probably means there is something about me. AKA, I am not a prize they feel sad about losing. Probability again... if something always happens, then logic says it will continue to happen. Whjy did they cheat? What motivated them? Not all guys cheat? Usually cheating can be atributed to other problems in the relationship....that s/he isnt getting something they want so they cheat. Are there a few who cheat just to have sex with others---yes. Those are few. Its mostly because of other issues. On the surface it appears they are cheating because the relationship they are in is good...but dull and boring so they want something more. The problem is in communication and talking about what the issues are.
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