What would you pick: stability and financial security vs physical spark?

August 13, 2012

If he chose a 27 year-old average-looking woman who can cook well, will wear sexy lingerie in the bedroom, but doesn't have big boobs or a tight skinny body...did he settle?

Is he crazy about her? If so, no.

If no, then yes.

August 13, 2012

Haven't read all the responses, but trust me from experience - hold out for both.

After a very hot romance that crashed and burned, I said I was through with going for sparks. So I started a relationship with a friend who I was not attracted to, but who was a very good person and was stable.

It was bad. I found myself wanting other guys. I found myself getting grossed out during sex. I found myself not wanting to kiss or touch him.

We ended it and are still friends, but I wouldn't go that route again.

Hold out for someone who is everything you want. Get out there and cast as wide a net as possible so you can find him.

youre telling its ok to be picky to the point she finds perfection? aint gonna happen. youre delusional. like I said above, she is like all the other tons of girls I saw month after month on OLD and not finding that SS. she will continue to be single because she is too picky. like most woman are..and for no reason. most of them are not so special anyways. besides, I wouldnt touch someone who wasnt married at that age anyways. marriage teaches you a lot. and I dont buy that "I put my effort into my career" sentence of those who couldnt find a guy along the way..all nonsense.

I say this. if you dont find someone who makes money, then find someone who has good work ethics, someone who has the potential to make money and is attractive to her. but she has her nose up too high. screw her.

My ex wife made more money than me at some times in our relationship, but most times it was me. but money or not we got along, were very attracted to one another (the comment about attraction fading away is bullkaka) but most important we had love. but to ES, money is more important.

like I said before ES, I hope you stay single for a very long time ES till you'll have to settle.. sweetheart, at your age, most of the good ones were taken. you have scraps to choose from.

every time I read a woman mention money it infuriates me. there are a lot of great men out there that can probably do 70% of what she needs, but that money thing is what will bring everything crashing down.

and dont think im here pissed because I cant get dates. I get more than you and possibly more than anyone here. look at my pic in my profile and realize, I have to much to much to choose from. I just hate it when woman bring up money. they have nothing (not even unconditional love) to offer and they have demands..GTFOH!

August 13, 2012

Id choose love, and I assume love would have a great physical spark. But between money and physical, Id always chose the physical. Thats where the real connection comes from. Nothing beats that connection you get when lying in bed with someone you really click with.

And OP, if you lean towards number 2, you already know settling will leave you unfulfilled. You see it in threads all over this site. The right guy is out there.

Edited August 13, 2012 by kaylan

August 13, 2012

lol, yeah, Eternal Sunshine doesn't seem anything, to me, like Frustrated Standards.

Anyway, I haven't read this thread. But I just skimmed a few random thoughts.

I agree that there are still attractive people in their 30s -- that is, people who stay in shape and look reasonably young. I prefer people in their 30s.

I don't think people should settle, ever. I'd rather have a bunch of meaningless affairs (but have fun with it) until I die than settle down with some guy who is less than what I really want. At this point in my life, I make a point of looking good not so much to attract "the one" (either an ideal one or a settled-for one) but to make sure I look good enough to be a serial monogamist with guys I find attractive.

I'll die eventually, and it'll be all over.

August 13, 2012

one thing to note is those single 30+ woman are in that OLD cycled thinking where something better will come along so dont settle. the wheel has been invented, and there is nothing better coming along, its all the same but just wrapped differently. there are some good and some bad..what? do you think all of a sudden out of no where that mr right will come up? and the more youre into it the worst it gets. and if youve been single for so long and have never lived with someone its VERY difficult to start that life at 35+ you have your ways set and to bring someone into your life is no easy task.

here's the scenario. you see his thumbnail and say "hmm, nice" click on it and start going through his stats, "nice" he's tall, well built, nice" you keep going. "oh, he's romantic and caring, nice" his career.."oh, he's an IT guy-nice" lets see his other pictures "nice tattoo on his rear deltoid, nice. and he loves dogs, NICE! you send him a message..you wait and then get your message: "thanks anyways, youre a _____ sign, we are not compatible"

there's your mr perfect down the drain faster than you can click your mouse. and it happened to me-multiple times. and I dont really have a big shopping list. I sent out messages to woman that I thought were perfect for me and they just were not interested. and you think I dont settle when dating? eeeevvveryone does. you have to find someone who has as much of what youre looking for as possible. but you will not find it all..you find some have this while others have that. youre just delusional.

yes, there are a lot of good looking 30 YO. My GFs who are 45+ put most woman to shame. theyre skinny and gorgeous. they have sex appeal up the wazoo

Edited August 13, 2012 by rocketman122

August 13, 2012

Also OP, I believe you are shooting yourself in the foot and being kinda snobby and unrealistic. Why not just find real love? Why feel less respect for a guy just because he has a Bachelors or Masters degree. I can tell you for a fact that I could keep up with you in terms ofculture and intellectualism if we were to everer meet. Sure Im a 25 year old college grad, but Im not dumb. And Im still not sure if I want to go for my masters or not.

Do you realize how rare a doctorate degree is? Look at the percent of PhDs there are in the college graduate pool, then see how its even smaller in the general population pool. Then consider the fact that people are so different and unique that the odds of finding the right guy for you in the exact small pool of men you want...well the odds arent in your favor.

As I read more of this thread, I can see exactly why you are single well into your 30s. You are quite judgmental and have a high horse attitude I believe. I do wish you the best, but I believe you shoot yourself in the foot instead of simply looking for the right connection. Screw the assumptions and requirements. A guy can be plenty successful and educated without a PhD. I can understand you wanting someone college educated, but I wouldnt hold outfor a doctor your whole life.

PS - Its one thing to say blue collar guys arent your type...its another thing to look down on them and say you respect certain guys less for being less successful than you. A waitress or secretary might not be my ideal girl, but I wouldnt say I respect her less.

August 13, 2012

I could have waited until after college to search for a guy more successful than me. Or one that had family money. Or his own house.

Instead, I married my blue collar high school sweetheart. We have that spark and chemistry. It's still there after all these years.

With three kids, finances can be a struggle. We have a home, cars and the bills are paid, but I worry about helping my oldest pay for college. I wish I could afford a car for him like some of his friends.

If I had waited for a different man, I could be living in a new home in an upscale neighborhood with a man that doesn't do it for me. Or I could be still searching, panicked because at 36 my time to have kids would be running out.

I went with the sparks & chemistry, and I have never regretted my decision.

I'd rather be poor and turned on by my husband, than rich and bored. I feel sorry for women that seem to have everything except a genuine attraction for their mate.

The family that we have built together is worth so much more to me than any degree or bank account.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Quiet Storm

August 13, 2012

youre telling its ok to be picky to the point she finds perfection?

I didn't say anything about perfection. Nobody is perfect.

I said she shouldn't settle for someone who she has sparks with but who doesn't have other attributes that are important to her, and she shouldn't settle for someone who is stable and nice but who she isn't attracted to.

Nothing about perfection.

August 13, 2012

I'd rather be poor and turned on by my husband, than rich and bored.

Oh, god, yes!

When I'm on my deathbed, I want to have memories of deep, aching love. Not bank acct balances and floor plans.

It is important to have enough. Without enough, there is struggle and stress on the relationship. But enough is enough. If one spouse makes "enough", and both are financially responsible, anything the other spouse makes is just gravy!

August 13, 2012

Do you realize how rare a doctorate degree is? Look at the percent of PhDs there are in the college graduate pool, then see how its even smaller in the general population pool. Then consider the fact that people are so different and unique that the odds of finding the right guy for you in the exact small pool of men you want...well the odds arent in your favor.

This is true. I haven't read the entire thread, so I don't know if the OP actually said she'd only date guys with doctorates, but if so, I really think the OP's list needs to be rewritten.

Instead of saying "must have doctorate", think about what having a doctorate means to you and look for those attributes instead...

- intellectually stimulating

- successful and self-sufficient

The more boxes you check on a search form, the fewer results you are gonna get, so make sure you are checking the right boxes.

August 13, 2012

You use Eharmony, too?!?!

LOL. No. I was speaking in general terms...

If you think of every potential mate as part of a large database, every box you check is going to eliminate some of them. You want to take a lot of care to ensure the boxes you are checking are the ones you really want to check.

So if you say "I won't date blue collar guys", you miss out on the guy who owns an excavation company, makes millions of dollars, is kind and sweet and generous, is good-looking and humble, is ready to settle down, and reads classic literature as a hobby - all because of some pre-conceived notion of someone due to the industry he's in.

I think the healthiest thing to do is to search for what you DO want rather than what you don't want. Unless someone has a major dealbreaker, consider them. I also think it is unhealthy to discard someone due to something trivial. He has a tattoo on his arm? So? How will that affect the quality of life together? How will that affect what he brings to a relationship and how he treats you? It doesn't, at all.

August 13, 2012

Can you feel spark and connection for a man who is not conventionally attractive, after getting to know him better? If you get to know some of these average looking guys, you might develop a connection that changes the way you see them.

This is how I am. Someone's personality, intelligence and character can change their appearance in my eyes. Within reason, of course. It wouldn't happen with someone very fat.

August 13, 2012

Count me in the "still sparky" column. Spark doesn't just fade away when the relationship is strong.

Needing a partner to be as professionally successful in order to feel spark is another issue, and seems to be unique to hetero women. Men who are high earners can be attracted to women of any income level. The most successful woman I know is a lesbian, and is happily partnered to a beautiful woman with an average personal income. Straight women who are high earners seem to have trouble doing the same, and I wonder why that is.

Societal conditioning is strong.

August 13, 2012

Let me add to my last post

Count me in the "still sparky" column. Spark doesn't just fade away when the relationship is strong.

Needing a partner to be as professionally successful in order to feel spark is another issue, and seems to be unique to hetero women. Men who are high earners can be attracted to women of any income level. The most successful woman I know is a lesbian, and is happily partnered to a beautiful woman with an average personal income. Straight women who are high earners seem to have trouble doing the same, and I wonder why that is.

Societal conditioning is strong. And plenty of hetero folks have no idea how to think for themselves. Its funny when I look at the LGBT people Ive known over the years, and see how their relationships dont have these stupid rules hetero ones do. Stupid rules about whos more successful, who pays for a date or who pays the tip, who asks out who first, when to kiss or have sex....yada yada. Id say that LGBT folk are already off "the beaten path"...they are already of a different mindset, and they grow up in a society that is catered to hetero lifestyle...so they are more apt to think for themselves and get their own ideas.

I believe LGBT folks know variety because their lifestyle and culture is about acceptance, especially since thats what they strive for in a world where they are "the others". Considering all that, how could LGBT folks not grow up view the dating world with a more open mind?

August 13, 2012

It's a bit unfortunate how this thread has turned out. I was quite looking forward to seeing how people would process the trade-off of (1) vs (2).

August 13, 2012

Do you realize how rare a doctorate degree is? Look at the percent of PhDs there are in the college graduate pool, then see how its even smaller in the general population pool. Then consider the fact that people are so different and unique that the odds of finding the right guy for you in the exact small pool of men you want...well the odds arent in your favor.

This is actually bull****. As a PhD student, you will spend years at uni (MSc, then PhD studies), where your social network will automatically fill up with other people in the same situation, even more so if you get papers enough to go to the good conferences. And afterwards, there are alumni clubs etc.

It's no surprise that there are many couples where both partners have a good education, especially these days where the numbers for MSc and PhD aren't that heavily skewed towards one gender anymore.

As I read more of this thread, I can see exactly why you are single well into your 30s. You are quite judgmental and have a high horse attitude I believe.

A guy can be plenty successful and educated without a PhD. I can understand you wanting someone college educated, but I wouldnt hold outfor a doctor your whole life.

PS - Its one thing to say blue collar guys arent your type...its another thing to look down on them and say you respect certain guys less for being less successful than you. A waitress or secretary might not be my ideal girl, but I wouldnt say I respect her less.

I'm the last guy to deny that she has issues - but having high standards is not one of them. It's not that people without higher education are stupid, or less successful, not at all - but spending that much time thinking about complex topics, trying to find new solutions to hard problems, decomposing problems... it shapes your thinking in a certain way. In my personal opinion, such a shared approach to problem solving can be a great foundation for a relationship.

August 13, 2012

This is bullsh--. Racism and sex/gender stereotypes abound in LGBT. Don't bring that horsecrap about LGBT being free of conditioning here.

That's like saying black people are free of sexism because they've been excluded or that women are never racists.

As someone with friends in the community, and as someone who went to a university with a very large LGBT population, I can tell you for a fact that racism, sexism and gender bias exist on a MUCH MUCH MUCH smaller scale in the LGBT community than amongst the general population. Especially considering these folks know what its like to be discriminated against, so they are opposed to doing it to others.

Get a clue.

August 13, 2012

As someone with friends in the community, and as someone who went to a university with a very large LGBT population, I can tell you for a fact that racism, sexism and gender bias exist on a MUCH MUCH MUCH smaller scale in the LGBT community than amongst the general population. Especially considering these folks know what its like to be discriminated against, so they are opposed to doing it to others.

Get a clue.

Maybe in general, but I have certainly known VERY picky LGBT friends. A few who have stayed single for years at a time due to not finding anyone who met their standards.

There is a difference between being accepting of people in general, and being more open to who you will date.

August 13, 2012

This is actually bull****. As a PhD student, you will spend years at uni (MSc, then PhD studies), where your social network will automatically fill up with other people in the same situation, even more so if you get papers enough to go to the good conferences. And afterwards, there are alumni clubs etc.

Is it still not a smaller dating pool then one that includes Bachelors and Masters graduates? PhDs make up only a small portion of the population, and its hard enough for most people to find the right person for them.

It's no surprise that there are many couples where both partners have a good education, especially these days where the numbers for MSc and PhD aren't that heavily skewed towards one gender anymore.

And how many of those people are settling? A lot of people settling to begin with, and a lot of people marry someone for the status of having someone in their perceived social bracket....OP is considering doing this herself.

And there are threads about men and women doing this all over the internet. So where am I wrong for pointing out that wanting a guy to be a PhD with money is making your pool smaller?

I'm the last guy to deny that she has issues - but having high standards is not one of them. It's not that people without higher education are stupid, or less successful, not at all - but spending that much time thinking about complex topics, trying to find new solutions to hard problems, decomposing problems... it shapes your thinking in a certain way. In my personal opinion, such a shared approach to problem solving can be a great foundation for a relationship.

But to look down on guys who are doing just fine and who are successful just because they arent AS successful as her is a problem of silly high standards.

She can find a very successful guy, whos analytical, intellectual and has great critical thinking skills, but yet has only a bachelors or masters degree.

Denial is your friend.

Whatever you say kitty cat *yawn*

Maybe in general, but I have certainly known VERY picky LGBT friends. A few who have stayed single for years at a time due to not finding anyone who met their standards.

There is a difference between being accepting of people in general, and being more open to who you will date.

I never said LGBT folks were never picky. Im just saying they tend to be much more open to different kinds of people and dont get sucked into stupid gender roles and racial generalizations the same way hetero folks do. At least my experience has been that they are more accepting of people different from them.

Edited August 13, 2012 by kaylan

August 13, 2012

But to look down on guys who are doing just fine and who are successful just because they arent AS successful as her is a problem of silly high standards.

She can find a very successful guy, whos analytical, intellectual and has great critical thinking skills, but yet has only a bachelors or masters degree.
Whatever you say kitty cat *yawn*

What is she successful at? She is 30 and appearantly in a career where she is basing her move to a whole new country on "datable men" and doesn't seem to be basing that move on her career since she can so easily flip/flop between where in the US to move to. Her "career" doesn't even seem to be a consideration in the move. What kind of jobs are you looking for where you are first going to move and then find a job.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Imported

August 13, 2012

I'm the last guy to deny that she has issues - but having high standards is not one of them. It's not that people without higher education are stupid, or less successful, not at all - but spending that much time thinking about complex topics, trying to find new solutions to hard problems, decomposing problems... it shapes your thinking in a certain way. In my personal opinion, such a shared approach to problem solving can be a great foundation for a relationship.

Whatever man. " solving complex problems" blaba bla", admit it, yoU AND ET think that you too good to even have a " friendship" with a " non college educated" person... ya know, because surely the way you " speak" and the topics you talk about, will be wayyy to complicated for us " lesser intelligent, NON college educated people.

My college educated friends talk to me in EXACTLY the same way, about the EXACT same things, as they do to their college educated peers. In fact, we all sit around together, and have the SAME conversations. AMAZING, right!?!?! That I understand the way they talk, without them having to dumb themselves down for me!!!!!!!!!!!? I bet your in disbelief.

LOL I am having fun with this topic... I thin it is utterly hilarious, you elitist people, who act like the fact you have solved all your " complez problems" makes you incompatible with them - even as a friend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got 92% in my GPA college entrance equivallent entrance score ( probably similar to what YOU got to get into your " fancy" degree, seeing as dietetics is only as few points away from getting into medical or law school...).... If I wanted, I could go and study dietetics, a really hard degree to get into. But I choose not to. Because there is more to my life at this stage than having to solve very complex problems on a daily basis.

I hand around people with masters, going for their phd's ( he's a good friend of mine in fact).. And you know what, we DO speak the same language. I am not as acadamically gifted as they are, but jesus, the way YOU guys act, is indicative that you honesty think you would be able to weed out the college VS non college educated folk at the food store...

Sometimes you CAN tell a blue collar worker right off the bat, from a college educated person, sure! And I AGREE that ET is better suited to a very highly educated partner! RELATIONSHIPS are always best with people of similar values - and you CLEARLY value a person with a degree, because apparently, people like me cannot solve complez problems, and therefore cannot " connect" with you " colllege educated" folkes".

Honestly, I do not talk ANY differently to my so called " better educated" friends. They do not talk about topics that are " beyond my grasp". They do not TALK about their business degrees, engineering degrees ( two of my good friends).... Like.. LOL!?!??! They have their other mathamatically gifted friends to talk maths with, from University, and with me they just talk about anything BUT maths, that they are so passionate about.

I AM SO SICK of this disgusting, elitist attitude.

You do not need a college degree so sit down with a bunch of college educated people with degrees, and get along with them, and talk about them about the SAME TOPICS that they talk about with their fellow college buddies.

August 13, 2012

I apologise about the keys on my keyboard not all working up to scratch. It is bloody annoying but what can ya do... Going back to change about 20 words each post sure is not an option.

Seriously though - does it REALLY surprise you college elitists, that people like me can sit down with a group of college educated friends, without them having to dumb themselves down for me or talk any differently to their usual way of talking, and also to talk about the exact same things as they do with their college educated buddies?

There ARE many people without degrees who yes, make themselves known that they are not up to par on the way in which they communicate verbally - it terms of their vocabulary and other traits like that....

On the other hand, I speak identically to the way my college educated mates speak. I grew up around college educated people in my family, and they also do not speak any " differently" to me.

I also have a blue collar boyfriend who would make ou cringe with the way that he talks and spells. I am so glad you don't like guys like him, so I can keep him all to myself haha.

I ADMIT - the way my college educated mates talk is VERY DIFFERENT to Andrew and hsi blue collar mates! It is VERY obvious in some instances, but in other cases one girl I now in his group is well spoken enough to sound like you college folks.

August 13, 2012

If you have a heart and genuine feeling, you don't experience reality in this way. You don't need a regression formula to date.

No but you still need to make a choice. It doesn't matter how you arrive at your decision, I'm just interested in which option more people would choose.

August 13, 2012

Oh please. People need to stop this. Its not some rare fantasy to find a sexy man or woman whos also got their professional life in order and will make good mothers and fathers.

Exactly! And remember that sexy is subjective. There are men I find incredible sexy that my friends think are barely okay looking. There are men that I find okay looking until I get to know them a little bit, and then I can barely keep my hands off them. It's not like every woman out there is looking for some gorgeous movie star. Most are looking for a man that seems gorgeous in their eyes.

August 13, 2012

What the hell. The OP hasn't posted here since page 5. You are all just blithely trashing her character and making up a bunch of crap.

She has a "black heart"? She's not intellectually interesting? She's elitist?

I've certainly gotten into it with ES over the years but I can't for the life of me see why this thread has taken this sad path.

She has a Phd. She is smart. She has an academic career (not a "publicist.") She never said she was smarter than anybody.

Leave her alone if she likes what she likes. So do you. It doesn't make her "elitist." And she did not say once that she can't hang out with people who aren't educated to her level. It's normal and appropriate that many people do seek similarly educated people to themselves as partners. Many don't, too. Either way is neither good nor bad.

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What would you pick: stability and financial security vs physical spark?

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