modern feminism and dating

[Necris]

Do you think modern feminism has made the dating and marriage situation what it is today?

 

I found this on the web and thought it was interesting.

 

The New Dating Game | The Weekly Standard

 

Its kinda long as it is 3 pages, but I found it interesting the first page could be discarded it's not very important so you can skip over that.

 

I saw this, and I agree with the Charlotte's (the author) points to me it seems she's right feminism especially modern feminism and the sexual revolution hasn't really helped anyone at all, except maybe Alphas.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Necris

[mortensorchid]

I don't know about that, honestly. But then again, there are a lot of contradictions out there. It seems that there are those who can do or say whatever they like (see the stories profiled on this website), and those who are not allowed to do or say what they want. Why? It has something to do with sensing of intelligence. If people sense that you are smarter than the average, they will come down on you with the hammer of Thor. Don't believe me? Boast about a sexual conquest on a website or blog (like this website profiles, and you will see people's reaction either online or in real life). It will scare you strait.

 

Truthfully, if you are mysterious and ask that a man give you respect and attention, you will get that respect and attention. There are many signs you have to look for with others as to if they are a good person or not, but boasting online about who you have just banged last night in a drunken haze will not earn you street cred. It earns you ho cred.

[RedRobin]

Dollars to donuts the guy this article profiles ends up offing himself before the age of 40... or doing something really stupid that ends up with the same result.

[Radu]

I just finished reading the article more closely, and have to say it's the best analysis of what is going through the minds of most modern men in regards to romance I have ever read, thank you Necris.

 

Points that really hit home for me:

 

-My father was nothing but a paycheck growing up too. Never taught me jack about being a man, mostly worked his engineering job. I had to teach myself many things modern castrated fathers don't teach their sons, and often the hard way.

 

-Women are craving dominant men, and can only find it today in anti-social or harmful packages. The dominant role of the man as leader of the family (positive dominance) has been dismantled by social engineers to the point of being unthinkable in most modern relationships, causing a catastrophic landscape of inept, spineless men who are scared to assert themselves. Without dominant and wise husbands and fathers, women look for dominant behavior elsewhere, whether it's a retard cad at the bar like Mystery with very good looks and an eccentric hat , to low-lives, drug addicts, and violent petty street criminals, or even the extreme of a child molester and murderer like Richard Allen Davis that holds the record of prison marriage proposals and love letters.

 

- The ideal man for the bulk of women in society has changed from the eternal altruist (a battle-hardened soldier) to the vain, self-centered, sociopathic pretty boy, a Tucker Max if you'd like an example. The men who aren't like that and aren't getting any, wind up emulating the examples of men they see getting lots of women, creating a society of people that are incredibly ugly on the inside.

 

-IN the end, all men are deep down conservative and moralistic about love and sex. Sure most men will take sex if its thrown at them, or if there are no alternatives, but in the end men want to marry a wife and mother, not a hypergamous version of a man. Women who get to their 30's like on this forum and can't find men to settle down with them, is because most men are annoyed by their "liberated" condition (except the hopeless ones who think this social experiment can actually work) they refuse to grow out of, more than they are about their looks or age. Even a Tucker Max type who makes a living treating women as playthings, feels this way only because women are literally clawing at his genitals for the sole reason that he's good looking, rich, and famous.

 

 

You're gonna get in trouble with that username and avatar, but that was damn well said.

 

Also replace Tucker Max with 'bro'. That's all he is, the epitome of 'bro'-ness.

 

All i can say is that both me and my friends run the hell away from those women who are afflicted with radical feminism.

 

PS: Picture on 1st page in that article is awesome, stay away from heavy red-wearing women guys.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Radu

[Ruby Slippers]

I didn't read the article, but this is an excellent point:

 

-Women are craving dominant men, and can only find it today in anti-social or harmful packages. The dominant role of the man as leader of the family (positive dominance) has been dismantled by social engineers to the point of being unthinkable in most modern relationships, causing a catastrophic landscape of inept, spineless men who are scared to assert themselves.

This really hit me hard recently with the guy I'm seeing. He's pretty conservative and old school, and he definitely likes to take the leadership role. He's a natural at it, and it's such a good feeling to be with a guy who takes charge.

 

Though women are "free" now, we are coded to want strong men who lead the way. I think men growing to be more dominant (in a positive way) is going to be a key element in improving male-female romantic relationships. Men have to help women open their eyes and see what's going wrong - in a positive way.

 

Some of the guys on this forum who are actually thinking through the repercussions of sex early on and things like this, then adjusting their behavior to improve things, are that kind of hero guy, as I see it

 

We're all fighting against a lot of evil, negative social engineering and brainwashing, and men and women have to work together to overcome it.

[Radu]

You can cash in on this too.

 

Buy stock in big pharma, the way ppl are popping anti-depressants will only accelerate.

[all_hail_me]

Do you think modern feminism has made the dating and marriage situation what it is today?

 

I found this on the web and thought it was interesting.

 

The New Dating Game | The Weekly Standard

 

Its kinda long as it is 3 pages, but I found it interesting the first page could be discarded it's not very important so you can skip over that.

 

I saw this, and I agree with the Charlotte's (the author) points to me it seems she's right feminism especially modern feminism and the sexual revolution hasn't really helped anyone at all, except maybe Alphas.

 

I don't like the way feminism has been hijacked by women who want to act like men. Third wave feminism is what's wrong with the world - let's shag everything that walks and be earth mothers... wooooo. No, by god, most woman, albeit mostly not in the West, are still fighting for equality and a right to education. But I think education is actually the problem here. There was a lot of talk about how the uneducated ladies are attracted to alpha males, while educated women marry later and don't have children - propagating the wrong genes into the pool - and so the cycle continues until complete collapse.

 

Bit off topic here, but considering world population is actually out of control and people have thrown the inhibitions to the wind, maybe encouraging girls to think about their own futures rather than latching onto any man that looks at her and smooth talks her in the right way wouldn't be such a bad thing.

 

End of the day - for me the dating world is an exercise in anthropology -I will never understand why people do those things then expect all their dreams to come true. However, it is not feminism to drop your knickers at a guy that puts out!

[Taramere]

I used to read Tucker Max's old message board (after it invaded this one), and the charm of that site was that most of the people were evidently pretty well educated, witty and insightful. As Tucker Max himself seems to be. They were mainly pack pleasers, for sure, but it was an entertaining and readable site nonetheless.

 

The smart, witty and insightful aspects are generally a positive thing, and I'm not surprised that a lot of women are attracted to Tucker Max for that reason. Plus the fact that he's pretty decent looking. For me, the narcissism, shallowness and overt fratboy/ironic sexism would be very offputting...but I suspect that because these are the aspects of his personality that he's become famous for, a lot of women think they're great.

 

I don't know how much any of that has to do with feminism. People tend to just go gaga over anybody who's a celebrity. I suspect in the case of Tucker Max that a lot of the women he sleeps with are of the dim-witted groupie variety...but from his writing he seems smart, self aware and sufficiently capable of viewing things a variety of perspectives to connect with more intelligent women out there too. Albeit ones who must surely be fairly issue-ridden and low in self esteem if they're prepared to put up with all the crap and derogatory treatment that he and his crew mete out to women.

 

Going beyond the fratboy image is probably where a lot of his imitators would probably fall down. I've seen comments on twitter and other places from TM fanboys who sound as though they have an IQ of about 40 - and who would probably, if they met their hero in real life, sustain as much ridicule and disrespect from the TM crew as the groupies they sleep with do.

 

I've always seen feminism as being about developing a strong sense of identity and making your own choices in life, as opposed to being pressurised into roles you're unhappy in/not temperamentally suited to in order to please others. If a 25 year old girl thinks feminism means baring her boobs to a "show us your tits - in an ironic, knowing sort of way of course" baying mob then good luck to her and all who sail on her, but it sounds like a bit of a con to me.

Edited August 9, 2012 by Taramere

[Revolver]

Women being more "liberated" sexually is the best thing to ever happen to men.

 

That's why I don't understand how men could possibly have trouble getting laid in 2012. It's NEVER been easier, EVER

Edited August 9, 2012 by Revolver

[Radu]

Making money off people's misery is not really my style.

 

What about slipping cyanide to kids in the Fuhrer's bunker and getting depressed you won't be the 2nd Fuhrer.

 

Revolver, getting laid does nothing for some men.

They want the emotional connection too, to screw a woman they actually love and who loves them back.

[Bristolius]

That article was kind of a mess really. Lots of speculation, not just about the causes of modern dating, but about the reality of modern dating.

 

Does anything happen between men and women outside of the party/club scene? Not according to the article.

 

Are the forces affecting relationships described in this article all mating and sex related? Or are many of these people craving glamorous media attention?

[Emilia]

That article was kind of a mess really. Lots of speculation, not just about the causes of modern dating, but about the reality of modern dating.

 

Does anything happen between men and women outside of the party/club scene? Not according to the article.

 

Are the forces affecting relationships described in this article all mating and sex related? Or are many of these people craving glamorous media attention?

 

Yeah that's what I thought. After 2 pages I stopped reading, these people are not relevant to my life. Can't imagine they are relevant to most lives

[Woggle]

I don't think it is feminism but there are people that hijacked feminism for their own agenda. If you pit a population of people against each other they are easier to control and that is part of why the media seems so hell bent on promoting a gender war.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I don't think that "modern feminism" and "hook-up culture" are synonymous.

[Axton]

I always get the impression that PUAs are pretty miserable. That's not really coming from a place of jealousy either, when I got out of my long relationship, though I never subscribed to their methods, I did make a game out of picking girls up.

 

Even though I did pretty good at it, it ended up being the loneliest time of my life.

 

I'll admit, I'm sure its not the same feeling all PUAs get, but, it ends up sucking that you have to "deceive" a girl in to liking you.

 

Thank god I grew out of it fast.

[Radu]

I don't think it is feminism but there are people that hijacked feminism for their own agenda. If you pit a population of people against each other they are easier to control and that is part of why the media seems so hell bent on promoting a gender war.

 

I doubt it's an organized thing though.

I suspect it's got more to do with personal interest and public interest be damned.

 

I don't think that "modern feminism" and "hook-up culture" are synonymous.

 

They are not synonymous but they are intertwined to some degree.

[Woggle]

I doubt it's an organized thing though.

I suspect it's got more to do with personal interest and public interest be damned.

 

 

 

They are not synonymous but they are intertwined to some degree.

 

Maybe among people but there has to be a reason why the media keeps pitting men and women against each other.

[Radu]

It's got to do with women becoming a consumer group shortly after the lib movement.

All of the sudden you discover half of the country's population can vote with their money, can vote by itself and it's opinion matters.

So you manufacture stuff for them like :

- literature

- shows [phil and oprah]

- news that gathers their attention

- include them in your political agenda

 

Now, do you think that a title of 'everything is fine' will gather the attention as much as 'more and more women are abused' ?

Think about it, the baby satan cult in daycares thing that happened in the 80's was a direct result of women entering the workforce and leaving babies in daycare, feeling guilty as a result.

Look at stuff like the Vampire genre.

 

Now look at the political parties.

Isn't it odd how one has an emphasis on self-reliance and made out of Ayn Rand a demigod while the other is a lot into social support ?

 

Women became consumers, and this is why we have a gender war, because no drama is boring ... we need drama, we need to sell ppl crap they will never use but which will make them 'feel better'.

[Ruby Slippers]

The silent majority is silent because of sheer terror inflicted by the other side. We could both agree completely with one another, but in public you might be afraid of someone hearing you or judging you negatively for going against what's "cool".

Yes. But I am heartened by what's happening with me and the guy I've been dating for 2 months.

 

In the beginning, we were both weak, and fell into bed quickly. Like many single people these days, we live alone and lead fairly isolated, plugged-in lives. We are both far from our families and a strong community of friends and loved ones because we came to this city for our careers. We have friends, but not a large, highly supportive circle. So naturally, we're part of this huge throng of somewhat existentially lonely modern city dwellers. We all need affection and closeness, and our desperation for that showed right away.

 

Immediately, though, we agreed that we had gone way too fast, liked each other, and wanted to give things a real chance. So we pulled back on the sex and got to know each other.

 

Many of our early discussions were about all the brainwashing and destructive forces swirling all around us. We had this great discussion about porn, and he told me that he looked at it for a while, then realized it was having a negative influence on his feelings about sex and love, so he stopped. And it totally shows. I haven't been with a more responsive lover in years. So many guys these days are strongly numbed to the wonders of real sex by porn overuse.

 

And believe me, I have plenty of complaints about the behavior of modern women. I feel like an old lady to talk about it, but just one example is that I am shocked by some of the things women wear now. I see "normal" 20-something women dressed like prostitutes or worse, walking around the city, taking the train. It's so tasteless and sad.

 

He and I had another good talk last week. We both love kids and definitely want a family. We talked about the obvious anti-family agenda at work all around us - the portrayal of the family man as a beaten-down loser, a mother who stops work to raise her kids as a last-century failure of a woman, and so on.

 

I think one of the biggest problems right now is that people have gotten used to NOT thinking for themselves, to allowing their entire being to get absorbed into the glitzy, stupid, meaningless media machine of shiny junk, awful reality TV, brain-numbing pharmaceuticals. It's so easy to do, because this giant, relentless machine is constantly sucking you into that vortex.

 

But you have to keep your mind, body, and soul free and do what you know is good and right - even if no one around you is doing it. Then some people will notice, and others, and it builds up steam. I think that's our only hope.

[Radu]

About what you said RS.

 

When new media appears, it causes a freedom revolution because information is dissiminated faster and faster and there is little control on who publishes what and where.

Ppl will actually write in this new media what they feel about, and are to some degree honest.

 

Then the ppl who are at the top of small media companies fight out with each other, a few win, most lose.

You get conglomeration of media assets in a land.

You end up with the media being controlled by a select few group of ppl.

 

Think about it ... why :

- did the Catholic Church fight the translation of the Bible from latin ?

- are so few major tv networks left and why is it that they are always accused to be in cahoots with the politicians

- are the governments trying to control the newest form of media, the internet ?

 

It's all about control.

1% of the population [no link to the movement] needs workers, needs to shackle these workers, needs to keep ppl down, needs barriers.

Ivy League is a barrier.

Money is a barrier.

A dream that they tell you to chase right now, is a form of barrier and shackle.

We outlawed slavery, then we moved to indentured servitude, now we have loans.

Is it really that much different in base ?

 

The only way to enjoy the same or close to the same freedoms that the 1% who lead have, is to refuse to be part of the system.

[mickleb]

Thanks for posting the link, OP. I found this an interesting read.

 

I agree with lots of points made already: the article is a little unfocused, equating feminism with sleeping around is a form of sensationalism, that the majority of people manage to find someone they like (eventually) somehow, that many people look to the media for guidance (bad move), etc.

 

But I do think it's important to discuss this tit-for-tat mentality that has built momentum over the past 100 years. Women fought (justifiably) against oppression. Some men didn't like that and belittled them. Some women fought harder and meaner. Some men responded in kind. And now we're here. It's still happening but it's also stopped happening (on many levels). Most people can see past the pitfalls of gender war, and treat each other as human beings, albeit with a few fundamental differences. Most people want to learn about the opposite sex. No hidden agenda, other than to get along with them better.

 

However, some people (who, in my opinion are weak) like to think they have power over others. They preach how to get it, make money out of others or just show off. The media love these types. They make great entertainment. Younger people who don't have decent role-models, growing up, will be influenced by this. Most young people grow up, though, and learn from their experience. Life has one way or another of teaching us we are responsible for our actions.

 

I think it's great that there are places like LS where people can ask 'normal' people for their opinions. I think there are positives and negatives to the 'sexual revolution'. I think the same can be said of most revolutions. It's important to remember that old systems are overhauled for a reason. That things weren't all tickety-boo before them. But these are the conversations I, personally, like to read here. What is the bigger picture of all our collective issues? Is it worth doom-mongering or is that half the trouble. Call me an optimist but I think it'll work itself out.

 

Off-topic question: Dr G - How can you write so well but choose that username and avatar? It floors me.