Ninjainpajamas Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Sometimes I don't know who's more dysfunctional...the people who try to change others, and end up having to put up with all kinds of abuse/neglect or general off-balance-not so-50/50 relationship dynamic for the sake of love, promise and hope that a better day is around the corner... Or the people that continue to put their SO through these situations or circumstances because of selfish endeavors, issues or just being plain self-centered...which seems to enable them the disconnect and almost immune like empathy to the sufferings and struggles that must person must endure in order to be apart of their lives. You see one person want to change and "fix" another person...thinking that somehow some way they are the exception to the rule, that only If they knew and experienced true love that they would realize what they had in front of themselves and finally get over the hump that is preventing themselves from fully investing and committing to a relationship. You see another person defiantly struggle against their issues/addictions/dysfunctions...attempting to become closer to a person and resolving their personal issues somehow with the support of this new found person and love only to find themselves after a period of time slipping and sliding back down that slope into the black hole of emptiness that always seems to consume them. Some people are drug-addicts, others are alcoholics, sex-addicts, love-addicts, repair-addicts or saviors...the glue that holds it all together or those who just don't know have enough courage or self-value to let go and find something they really want because deep down they don't know If they deserve any better or can find something that is. It almost feels to a point where instead of walking around asking a date "what's your sign or birth date?"..."So what's f'ing you over in your relationships?, what's your problem?" because chances are the people who end up with abusers in relationships will continue to do so an those who abuse the other will also continue to...and sometimes instead the victim becomes the abuser just to feel in control. I read the forums on a regular basis and you see such a pattern in topics and similarity in issues that people are struggling with in their relationships...one situation is slightly different than the other in some ways because everyone is so "unique" but coincidentally the solution and obvious answer is typically the same...at least usually for me. I see so little talk of the important things, like love, understanding, acceptance, chemistry, compatibility in favor of security, fear of being alone or not finding anyone else, insecurity, denial, forcing something to work that doesn't or just plain pulling the Jesus card "Let's just pray/hope that everything will work itself out and like everything is somehow meant to be, like this is where I belong and what I should be doing..I have to give things a "chance". What in the world would people do If they lived forever? Would you even waste your time with the person you are with now if the hour glass or biological clock was ticking? What would people do If they actually had enough courage to believe in something greater than spontaneous love and emotions that always seem to fade in their relationships because they're with someone for safety reasons? What If people stopped caring about their prospective future and hopes/dreams and what their families and friends wanted or how people would judge them, or the fact that all their friends are getting married or whether they were going to make the cut-off date for "settling down and/or having kids"? And finally... Why do you think you can change someone else when you can't even change yourself? Do you just blame the fire for burning your hand or the fact that you're put your hand in it? I think what everyone really wants is someone who will understand and accept them for who they really are without pretending to be someone or something else that is more "perfect" or "desired"...how did this world become or never became about what's really important in life and love? and then people wonder why they aren't happy and satisfied with themselves when they did all those other things...or maybe that next thing is going to make it come all together. How do you expect someone to love and accept you for who you are when you're too busy trying to be something else..too afraid, and only through time do the layers start to peel and reveal someone else. Just my rant/thoughts for the day.. Edited August 3, 2012 by Ninjainpajamas 3
skyisfalling Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 you're so mean. geez, are you having a bad day? everyone comes onto these forums to get help and SORRY some of us aren't as "gifted" as you are mr. guru with relationship experience.. i do agree with you. you definitely can't expect to "change" the person because that's a fantasy relationship. But I love fairytales.. dont you?
RedRobin Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Hmmm... I rarely see you create threads here... Care to share what inspired this? oh... and FYI... I pulled the plug on the 3rd date movie-at-house guy... After 'trying' to take some advice here and address my own issues... 4th and 5th date attempts were worse misfires. After a couple of solid, non-judgemental... trying to seek understanding.. my conclusion is... I was right. And so were you. High fives. (No, I didn't sleep with him. All waist up fun ha ha). What did I learn? 1) My instincts rock. Staying with the plan... 2) Grown men who say they want a relationship on dates 1 and 2, then pull out the 'movie at house' suggestion on the third date are a) uncreative at best b) only looking for an easy (read, boring) lay at worst. Not what I'm looking for. 3) Make sure they follow through on whatever 'fun' thing they have planned. He said he wanted to try out motorcycle racing. K... Could have been fun date #3,4, or 5... I'd even pay my share... but no. Just more of the same boring... "let's screw first, and ask questions later" type talk. I dunno. That might have worked when I was younger. It just seems so... uninspired now. 4) Sometimes talking about why things aren't working (even in a very respectful way) doesn't really help. Although, he wasn't left thinking WTF... My conscience is clear. 5) I don't believe he was a partier or had any major issues in his past, so that was good... I did offer to be friends though... We ended things amicably. I'm sure we'll cross paths again... No burned bridges... If I had anything to do differently... I would have spent more time observing him before showing romantic interest. Then again, this way was pretty darned efficient too. Can check that box and move on... As for having a life... sans 'man....Me and some friends are heading out to NYC to check out 'Cloud City' on top of the Met... I *am* going to look into racing motorcycles... (with or without 'man' in tow). Am driving motorcycle out to the Cape to spend a week near the ocean with some other friends... making a detour through Lenox, MA (Tanglewood). I've been appointed to lead a number of projects I've been pitching for where I work. Life is good... and gettin' better. thanks for the words of wisdom... and support... (chin up... on whatever made you jump on this vortex...) Edited August 3, 2012 by RedRobin
proseandpassion Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 I don't believe people ever change. Perhaps much, slight tweaks... but overall, the core of a person will always remain the same.
RedRobin Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 ... Ninja... If you haven't read Emerson's "Self-Reliance", you ought to. Alot of stuff you are saying comes through in that essay. Catch is... Life is best (IMHO) recognizing we are all dependent on someone... and each other.
RedRobin Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 I don't believe people ever change. Perhaps much, slight tweaks... but overall, the core of a person will always remain the same. I have witnessed true change in people... but only over many years and excruciating hard work. Most people don't have the courage for that. I agree.
Author Ninjainpajamas Posted August 3, 2012 Author Posted August 3, 2012 you're so mean. geez, are you having a bad day? everyone comes onto these forums to get help and SORRY some of us aren't as "gifted" as you are mr. guru with relationship experience.. i do agree with you. you definitely can't expect to "change" the person because that's a fantasy relationship. But I love fairytales.. dont you? What..............ever! ::hand to the face:: The greatest ability that I have is simply to question, that's where and how It all started for me. I love fairy tales, and I love anything that represents a strong rebellious passion against the norm of things, maybe even "unrealistic". In the end who's to say what Is and Is not possible when there's always new possibilities. If I didn't feel believe and feel the way I do, I would only be a shell of me...It would take away almost all purpose. But to "hope" when all the signs point to no is an entirely different thing, I listen to my intuition or heart of hearts.
FitChick Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 I have witnessed true change in people... but only over many years and excruciating hard work. Most people don't have the courage for that. Oh, yeah, that was me over many years and it cost me wasted time, money and energy. Temporary fixes most of them. I had therapy and seminars with people you see on TV and the NY Times bestseller list. Interesting and entertaining but ultimately not productive for changing core beliefs and behavior patterns. Unfortunately, the Lefkoe Method hadn't been invented yet so I made the best of what was available. I kept searching. The Lefkoe Method worked faster and better. No need to make an effort outside of the therapy sessions. Change happened automatically. Hard to believe but it's true. That's why I bang on about this because I want to keep other people from trying some other type of therapy that doesn't work and totally giving up. Worth every penny! Read my signature line.
Author Ninjainpajamas Posted August 3, 2012 Author Posted August 3, 2012 Hmmm... I rarely see you create threads here... Care to share what inspired this? oh... and FYI... I pulled the plug on the 3rd date movie-at-house guy... After 'trying' to take some advice here and address my own issues... 4th and 5th date attempts were worse misfires. After a couple of solid, non-judgemental... trying to seek understanding.. my conclusion is... I was right. And so were you. High fives. (No, I didn't sleep with him. All waist up fun ha ha). What did I learn? 1) My instincts rock. Staying with the plan... 2) Grown men who say they want a relationship on dates 1 and 2, then pull out the 'movie at house' suggestion on the third date are a) uncreative at best b) only looking for an easy (read, boring) lay at worst. Not what I'm looking for. 3) Make sure they follow through on whatever 'fun' thing they have planned. He said he wanted to try out motorcycle racing. K... Could have been fun date #3,4, or 5... I'd even pay my share... but no. Just more of the same boring... "let's screw first, and ask questions later" type talk. I dunno. That might have worked when I was younger. It just seems so... uninspired now. 4) Sometimes talking about why things aren't working (even in a very respectful way) doesn't really help. Although, he wasn't left thinking WTF... My conscience is clear. 5) I don't believe he was a partier or had any major issues in his past, so that was good... I did offer to be friends though... We ended things amicably. I'm sure we'll cross paths again... No burned bridges... If I had anything to do differently... I would have spent more time observing him before showing romantic interest. Then again, this way was pretty darned efficient too. Can check that box and move on... As for having a life... sans 'man....Me and some friends are heading out to NYC to check out 'Cloud City' on top of the Met... I *am* going to look into racing motorcycles... (with or without 'man' in tow). Am driving motorcycle out to the Cape to spend a week near the ocean with some other friends... making a detour through Lenox, MA (Tanglewood). I've been appointed to lead a number of projects I've been pitching for where I work. Life is good... and gettin' better. thanks for the words of wisdom... and support... (chin up... on whatever made you jump on this vortex...) The way my brain works Is I see similarities or a pattern that appears before me, like If it was a coincidence and all just happening at once. Then I look at it and analyze or just express how I feel towards that, usually out of frustration because at times I wish things weren't so "simple" at least in the context of how people have relationships and how they act/react inside of them. I would say that you're earlier post regarding dating this man and trying to get him a fair shot was apart of the motivation for this post. I guess with you RedRobin I see a woman with a lot to offer yet too scared to reach out...or maybe not "scared" but a fear of vulnerability, a quality that resides in me and I can relate the fact that that you're extremely careful in what you invest in emotionally because you feel that is something worth valuing and cherishing, and why would you let someone devalue you and your emotions? What would be the point of "taking a chance" when every time you take a chance you feel like you have every reason to be cautious? I kind of get your defense mechanism towards vulnerability and you sustain a rigidity about you as an outer shield, something to protect the "real you" or at least the core emotions. I think every body can relate to that but also there are some more than others that take it a step further, where nothing feels worth the risk...even though you want to so badly invest because you want to reach that emotional potential. For myself I just hope that I don't ever know too much or read into everything to the point where I don't get to experience and value what is in front of me...that's where I'm at right now, fortunately that hasn't happened to me yet, luckily with my wisdom and understanding I carry a strong passion and lust for life and experience which for me at times feels like a contradiction since one is more about mind and the other is about heart. But it was a compilation of recent posts and what I "see" lately, that inspired this post...as well as deep conversation with someone that really inspired a lot of thinking and understanding about myself...there's apart of me that I don't know how or If I can change and that worries me...even though no one is "perfect" I want to be able to fix that personal issue because it stops me from getting what I ultimately really want. Anyway...glad to hear an update on your last experience there and that you're trying to be even more independent and take the bull by the horns with your own life. I only hope that you engage each new experience as a opportunity to learn..not necessarily about others but yourself. You seem like you have it together in many facets of your life, not too worried about that...just the emotional/guarded/opinionated/over-disciplined RedRobin...anyways, thanks
Eternal Sunshine Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 I would never try to change another person. But I disagree in the sense that change IS possible. I have changed myself...
Author Ninjainpajamas Posted August 3, 2012 Author Posted August 3, 2012 I don't believe people ever change. Perhaps much, slight tweaks... but overall, the core of a person will always remain the same. You know...I have invested very much so In fixing myself. Some things I were able to change...a lot of the little things and middle of the road like perspectives, gain understanding and wisdom so that I could change how I "felt" about particular things. I would say that in a lot of ways I'm much different than I used to be in some facets but I think most people are in their 20's anyway by the time they get through it. Unfortunately there are a few that are probably going to be life-long battles, I hope they won't but they seem to be repeat every...what seems like some solar/lunar eclipse, unexpected yet not a surprise. However for me a disappointment. I've tried to understand my own psychology and be as self-aware as humanly possible, I'm not half as hard on others as I am with myself. I'm still digging deeper into what made/influenced "me". I don't know If I'll ever accomplish it but I'm glad with the progress I've made yet disappointed I haven't reached my expectations and I think there are some that I cannot afford to overcome and maybe there is a purpose for me in that.
Author Ninjainpajamas Posted August 3, 2012 Author Posted August 3, 2012 ... Ninja... If you haven't read Emerson's "Self-Reliance", you ought to. Alot of stuff you are saying comes through in that essay. Catch is... Life is best (IMHO) recognizing we are all dependent on someone... and each other. Read it....you know I do zero reading and It's funny how much I say has been "done before", someone always seems to have a reference or inquiry of whether I read some particular material and maybe that is drawing on some of my influencing factors with my ideals/opinions/perspective. Life is much better with the support of someone/others, I would have never learned what I have today If women weren't so vocal of what I was doing wrong in a relationship But also, as much self-work as I have invested in myself...I really hate with a passion my experiences being alone or not having someone to share and express how I feel with, maybe I'm a masochist in some way :S It's too bad I have felt it was so necessary in my life.
Leopard Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 I think people try to change each other because they want their partner to be a partner that they want. People who understand that you can't change someone, are those that are oftentimes single for longer periods of time because they have a harder time finding someone who they actually like. It's the people desperate for relationships and their "dream guy/girl" who are the ones who try to mould their partner into ideally what they would like. And I also very much agree that if you can't even change yourself, what makes you think someone can and will for YOU?
LSgirl Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 Hey, I'm not sure if you remember me, but we talked via private message 5 months ago when you gave me advice with my now ex. I just wanted to say thank you for everything because ever since you gave me that advice, I walked away from the relationship and never once talked to him. I've been NC over 5 months now and he's reached out about 3-4 times with the general "hope all is well with you, i know you don't like me too much" etc..but it was never anything worth responding to. I'm so much happier without him and not trying to be someone he would eventually fall in love with. I waited, hoped, put myself through a lot of emotional pain hoping he would love me even after a year. Now that I look back on it, I'm glad I went through it as I learned a lot about myself. He had a lot of his own emotional struggles and it was worth the experience, even all the pain that came with it. Thank you again and I hope to continue to come across your articles when I visit here time to time.
The dot Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 I think people try to change each other because they want their partner to be a partner that they want. Yep, and I also think it's an admission of FAILURE on their part. That's right, failure. The guy who hooks up with a woman who's 160lbs and wants her to get down to 110, he's a failure. The woman who hooks up with a man who makes $40,000 a year and wants him to get a better job, she's a failure. These are people who have failed to attract the partner they really wanted, so they take a square peg and try to hammer it into a round hole. FWIW, you can't change another person. I believe people can change, but it only happens when they want to, not when their significant other wants them to.
Titania22 Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 I wanted to chime in on the "can people change?" question. I think there are 2 different levels to perceive an individual on:- The core them, what makes them who they are regardless of external environment. I think these qualities of an individual don't change. We can try to hide them behind masks, but under the right circumstances they will shine though regardless. And the everything else, which changes all the time, throughout life, and rarely stays constant. These things include everything, from likes/dislikes to addictions, beliefs, feelings, etc. When a person doesn't change these, there is usually something about the trait that they like or are attached to, or maybe a belief that, the trait is a "core" trait, and can't be changed. Ultimately change happens when someone wants it to happen, and not when someone else tries to nag them into it.
RedRobin Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 Read it....you know I do zero reading and It's funny how much I say has been "done before", someone always seems to have a reference or inquiry of whether I read some particular material and maybe that is drawing on some of my influencing factors with my ideals/opinions/perspective. Life is much better with the support of someone/others, I would have never learned what I have today If women weren't so vocal of what I was doing wrong in a relationship But also, as much self-work as I have invested in myself...I really hate with a passion my experiences being alone or not having someone to share and express how I feel with, maybe I'm a masochist in some way :S It's too bad I have felt it was so necessary in my life. You are smart to listen to these women... I do sense you are hard to impress... It must be very frustrating...
Author Ninjainpajamas Posted August 3, 2012 Author Posted August 3, 2012 I think people try to change each other because they want their partner to be a partner that they want. People who understand that you can't change someone, are those that are oftentimes single for longer periods of time because they have a harder time finding someone who they actually like. It's the people desperate for relationships and their "dream guy/girl" who are the ones who try to mould their partner into ideally what they would like. And I also very much agree that if you can't even change yourself, what makes you think someone can and will for YOU? I think it's important to evolve rather than "change"...you can be a better you, I think some people don't realize or accept that, they insist on such a narrow way of thinking and feeling. I think that's the other thing as well, people feel like If they change they might not feel comfortable with who they are and were before...maybe they wouldn't recognize themselves anymore...It's a fear, It's that vulnerability and discomfort that many people rather avoid than face...yet they don't even know what they afraid of rather than being hurt...we all do this though. If everyone put all their effort into "changing" or improving themselves then there wouldn't be so many problems...people expect their SO to help them change or they want to change them, which just leads to frustration and misunderstandings over and over. 1
Author Ninjainpajamas Posted August 3, 2012 Author Posted August 3, 2012 Hey, I'm not sure if you remember me, but we talked via private message 5 months ago when you gave me advice with my now ex. I just wanted to say thank you for everything because ever since you gave me that advice, I walked away from the relationship and never once talked to him. I've been NC over 5 months now and he's reached out about 3-4 times with the general "hope all is well with you, i know you don't like me too much" etc..but it was never anything worth responding to. I'm so much happier without him and not trying to be someone he would eventually fall in love with. I waited, hoped, put myself through a lot of emotional pain hoping he would love me even after a year. Now that I look back on it, I'm glad I went through it as I learned a lot about myself. He had a lot of his own emotional struggles and it was worth the experience, even all the pain that came with it. Thank you again and I hope to continue to come across your articles when I visit here time to time. Yes, I do remember you and I had wondered what had happened eventually. Glad to hear from you and that you were able to take something from it and get through the emotional pain and have that experience and understanding of yourself to take away from it. You're welcome, just glad I was able to help.
Author Ninjainpajamas Posted August 3, 2012 Author Posted August 3, 2012 Damn, so that's how you multi-quote...anyway, I'll do that from now on. I wanted to chime in on the "can people change?" question. I think there are 2 different levels to perceive an individual on:- The core them, what makes them who they are regardless of external environment. I think these qualities of an individual don't change. We can try to hide them behind masks, but under the right circumstances they will shine though regardless. And the everything else, which changes all the time, throughout life, and rarely stays constant. These things include everything, from likes/dislikes to addictions, beliefs, feelings, etc. When a person doesn't change these, there is usually something about the trait that they like or are attached to, or maybe a belief that, the trait is a "core" trait, and can't be changed. Ultimately change happens when someone wants it to happen, and not when someone else tries to nag them into it. You know...sometimes people don't really want to change some things about them because they feel it's just apart of who they are...even If it's not necessarily a "good" quality or trait. It's up to that person whether to decide If it's worth sacrificing and changing...there are some things I wish I could change about myself but I really can't...because what I want to do, and what I want to change for someone else isn't really what I want inside...even If it's for the "best"...best for whom? the world? society? because that's what you're "supposed" to want to be and feel like or think? I think a lot of the problem is that someone wants to change because others want them to...It's just weird how that works...I seen a guy who was addicted to drugs on that show "intervention". He had two kids (9-13 age) that were literally chasing him down the street with the camera crew and crying because they wanted him to change and get treatment to be a better father and be apart of their lives again, go to their baseball games and Birthdays...but he couldn't do it, he just kept walking away and he was upset and angry feeling forced, even though it tore him up inside to be this way and really did want to be with them, the fact of the matter is he couldn't overpower or conquer his own issues that prevented him from doing so...and he didn't want to change, not because he didn't want to love his kids and be a good father...but because he just couldn't, something wouldn't click over. At the end of the show they do a little "status update" and he ended up getting really sick...he had to be clean off his addiction and he was sober with his kids for about two weeks and then died. And one of the kids who was about 9 or 10 years old with tears in his eyes said that "At least I can tell people my dad didn't die a drug addict...he was at least normal in the end". This may be an extreme example or not so much, but how do you explain that? Is there something that were missing him when judging people who can't change even when they want to? Are they not suffering from their inability just as well? regardless of whether it hurts you or not, or doesn't make you happy? Are some people just "broken"? or just more broken than everyone else? You are smart to listen to these women... I do sense you are hard to impress... It must be very frustrating... I'm the kind of person that takes criticism to heart and become very disappointed in myself when I fail someone I love and care about, especially If it's something that I could have changed or done something about, technically speaking anyway. I can't think of one person I was with in my life that I felt deserved for me to hurt them. I may come off hard to impress but I have a pretty short list of what I'm looking for and it's not even so much based on criteria but how I feel...normal things like understanding, compatibility and someone who believes in something greater than just settling down, regardless of whether it seems smart or like the right choice...I don't live my life to impress others or have my name etched somewhere special I can look back on or buy all the material things I can dream of...for my romantic life it's a different set of rules than any career/professional aspirations...and honestly I would choose romance over everything, because through life I've learned that everything else is tangible...it can come and go in a blink of an eye, you never know what's going to happen but you can't replace the person next to you like you can everything else. I am more frustrated with myself than I am with others...I take a lot of responsibility for what and who I am and recognize my own faults, and I try not to judge others, I may determine their character and their compatibility but how can I walk around acting like my ***** don't stink? Am I supposed to take something personal about someone and their history and use it against them or just use it to understand them? It may not mean I accept or agree with it but what about me? Is it just me judging them? I can't be that way even though I know I could get away with it, being resentful isn't worth it for me.
Emilia Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 What If people stopped caring about their prospective future and hopes/dreams and what their families and friends wanted or how people would judge them, or the fact that all their friends are getting married or whether they were going to make the cut-off date for "settling down and/or having kids"? This is how I'm trying to live. Not worry about settling down or what everyone is doing around me (especially my family who put pressure on me to have kids) but I don't know whether ultimately this will make me happier or an emotionally healthier person. I never wanted kids, I have been saying the same since I was 18 and now I am 40. But I don't know whether I never wanted kids because I was too scared to settle down with one person for the rest of my life. Who says that not caring about the cut off period is in fact just running away from the kind of life that's full of challenges and compromises because you are not sufficiently adult? Plenty of people do make it work. I don't have any answers for you unfortunately.
Leigh 87 Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 Changing someones overall character is not a great thing to try. Neither us trying to make someone love you when they just don't. Things like communication style can be worked at; if your man or women likes to keep things more casual and only likes to check in with you once every two days - and what YOU really need is for them to touch base with you once or twice a DAY - then you must tell them that is what you need. Sometimes, I think people can be really into each other, but have different ways of going about things like phone communication. If the guy is really intot he girl, I am SURE he would be able to happily compromise his normal tendencies, to appease a girl he really loves.
betterdeal Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 A man wants his woman to stay the same, but she won't A woman wants to change her man, but she can't - Anon
Titania22 Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 You know...sometimes people don't really want to change some things about them because they feel it's just apart of who they are...even If it's not necessarily a "good" quality or trait. It's up to that person whether to decide If it's worth sacrificing and changing...there are some things I wish I could change about myself but I really can't...because what I want to do, and what I want to change for someone else isn't really what I want inside...even If it's for the "best"...best for whom? the world? society? because that's what you're "supposed" to want to be and feel like or think? The bolded is the key. I think it is futile to try to convince ourselves to change for someone else (or anything external for that matter). I think a lot of the problem is that someone wants to change because others want them to...It's just weird how that works...I seen a guy who was addicted to drugs on that show "intervention". He had two kids (9-13 age) that were literally chasing him down the street with the camera crew and crying because they wanted him to change and get treatment to be a better father and be apart of their lives again, go to their baseball games and Birthdays...but he couldn't do it, he just kept walking away and he was upset and angry feeling forced, even though it tore him up inside to be this way and really did want to be with them, the fact of the matter is he couldn't overpower or conquer his own issues that prevented him from doing so...and he didn't want to change, not because he didn't want to love his kids and be a good father...but because he just couldn't, something wouldn't click over. At the end of the show they do a little "status update" and he ended up getting really sick...he had to be clean off his addiction and he was sober with his kids for about two weeks and then died. And one of the kids who was about 9 or 10 years old with tears in his eyes said that "At least I can tell people my dad didn't die a drug addict...he was at least normal in the end". In the story above, it sounds like the man was torn. I don't think wanting to change because the people you love want you to, is the same as wanting to change because you really want to do it for yourself. I also think there would have been many physiological factors going on with him giving up the drugs (like what drugs, how long was he using, how long did he take to wean himself off them). I get where you are coming from though. I want to give up my "anxiety". I don't think it's part of the core of who I am, but I also don't know if it is actually possible to 100% cure myself of it. Even when I saw a counselor, she was all apart strategies to help me manage it, but said it would always be a part of my life. But seriously, I am not ready to give up, and say this is just the way I am "deal with it". I am going to keep working the strategies, in the hope one day, either I will have it totally under control, or if possible, feel like I am cured. But it is something I want for me, because it will greatly improve my experience of life, and my choices. The fact that it will positively effect people in my life is a bonus, but not a motivating factor. This may be an extreme example or not so much, but how do you explain that? Is there something that were missing him when judging people who can't change even when they want to? Are they not suffering from their inability just as well? regardless of whether it hurts you or not, or doesn't make you happy? See I don't get from that story that he wanted to change. I get that he felt pressured and guilted into changing. And I think he probably didn't loved. I think people are complicated in a way that isn't yet completely understood, and definitely isn't on television. As for the suffering he was going through, we really have to look at how the different sources were stimulating his brain chemistry. Chances are the extreme ups and downs from the drugs he was on, had a more potent effect, then the ups and downs from interactions with his family. Are some people just "broken"? or just more broken than everyone else? If it's any consolation, I have spent years thinking of myself as "broken" or "a waste of oxygen". After years of self work, it is only this year, that I am starting to see myself as anything else. So for the 1st time in my life, I would say "no", because seriously, if I manage to make something of my life, (given what a loser everyone always thought I was, and the bad situations I have been), then literally anyone can. Now, maybe I won't make anything of my life, but I actually think I have a chance, so I am going to run with that for now. Ninja, you can accept being "broken", or you can take one day at a time and be kind with yourself, and see where the path leads. It's lovely to want to helps others, but remember your someone too, and you are deserving of your own kindness as everyone else is.
RedRobin Posted August 4, 2012 Posted August 4, 2012 I would say that you're earlier post regarding dating this man and trying to get him a fair shot was apart of the motivation for this post. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? ha ha I guess with you RedRobin I see a woman with a lot to offer yet too scared to reach out...or maybe not "scared" but a fear of vulnerability, a quality that resides in me and I can relate the fact that that you're extremely careful in what you invest in emotionally because you feel that is something worth valuing and cherishing, and why would you let someone devalue you and your emotions? Hmm... it doesn't feel like fear, anymore at least. It feels like good judgement. What would be the point of "taking a chance" when every time you take a chance you feel like you have every reason to be cautious? That's dating, yep. I kind of get your defense mechanism towards vulnerability and you sustain a rigidity about you as an outer shield, something to protect the "real you" or at least the core emotions. Interestingly, the people I admire the most... the ones who have achieved the most success in every area of their lives (personally and professionally) have advised me to develop filters... that I've been TOO open and too honest about my flaws... People develop filters to protect them from those who do not have good intentions AND (this is important) to avoid getting burnt out... Another thing... too many man expect almost instant access to a woman's emotional and physical core without offering much in return... This is the part I support about so many of your posts... encouraging women to (respectfully and fairly, one hopes) to hold a high bar. I think every body can relate to that but also there are some more than others that take it a step further, where nothing feels worth the risk...even though you want to so badly invest because you want to reach that emotional potential. I'm assuming 'you' means universal 'you'... not 'me'. Of course I want to invest in a man... but he needs to be worthy of my investment... starting with a desire and ability for a relationship... and able to prove that through consistent words and actions. For myself I just hope that I don't ever know too much or read into everything to the point where I don't get to experience and value what is in front of me...that's where I'm at right now, fortunately that hasn't happened to me yet, luckily with my wisdom and understanding I carry a strong passion and lust for life and experience which for me at times feels like a contradiction since one is more about mind and the other is about heart. a search for knowledge and questioning things is part of who you are (or that is my impression). I don't see it as a contradiction at all. But it was a compilation of recent posts and what I "see" lately, that inspired this post...as well as deep conversation with someone that really inspired a lot of thinking and understanding about myself...there's apart of me that I don't know how or If I can change and that worries me...even though no one is "perfect" I want to be able to fix that personal issue because it stops me from getting what I ultimately really want. It's always somethin'... Anyway...glad to hear an update on your last experience there and that you're trying to be even more independent and take the bull by the horns with your own life. I only hope that you engage each new experience as a opportunity to learn..not necessarily about others but yourself. You seem like you have it together in many facets of your life, not too worried about that...just the emotional/guarded/opinionated/over-disciplined RedRobin...anyways, thanks Well, I've always been this way. I have my parents to thank for that. Letting me and my siblings run around like little heathens. Thank you for your concern about me though. You have a great weekend!
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