Bristolius Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Fishtaco, You're describing the confusion between two styles. Direct vs. Indirect. I'm direct and have learned how to understand and translate indirect language. One mistake direct people make is to assume that indirect people are wrong. It's not wrong, it's based on different ideas of etiquette. Direct people seem blunt and inconsiderate to indirect people. Indirect people seem passive and wishy washy to direct people. If you unclench and avoid being judgmental you can communicate well and avoid frustration. 1
Ninjainpajamas Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 I wanted to add..stupid edit feature expired!.. I apologize If my advice is unrequested, I get your venting and frustrated. I just thought I'd lend my opinion/perspective on things, that's all.
xxoo Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Right now our biggest issue is that she needs story book romantic feedback from me, and I can't give that to her, as seen in rant #1. Because she isn't getting a basic relationship need met: commitment. It's her fault, since you've been upfront about not wanting commitment, but still a need is going unmet. If that need were met, she wouldn't be asking such silly questions. The truth is, even if you answered with "our love is forever", it wouldn't satisfy her need. She'd know you were just saying what she wants to hear, and that you still didn't want to commit. Fishtaco, You're describing the confusion between two styles. Direct vs. Indirect. I'm direct and have learned how to understand and translate indirect language. One mistake direct people make is to assume that indirect people are wrong. It's not wrong, it's based on different ideas of etiquette. Direct people seem blunt and inconsiderate to indirect people. Indirect people seem passive and wishy washy to direct people. If you unclench and avoid being judgmental you can communicate well and avoid frustration. Great post! It upsets me when men or women attribute negative intentions to different styles of communication. Give each other the benefit of the doubt, and try to understand each other. Ninja is 100% correct in that women want understanding! Does she put effort into trying to understand you, and assume the best about your intentions? If so, return the favor!
Author fishtaco Posted July 31, 2012 Author Posted July 31, 2012 First, I was right. The buyer from craigslist is a woman. And she changed the time/place on me yet again. The only time I'm available was inconvenient for her. So she agreed to the time, then tried to annoy me into changing it by repeatedly asking me if we can meet up sooner. I have a job. I told her my hours. If it doesn't work then say it doesn't work. You don't agree to something then start poking the person to get your way. Such a typical chick thing to do (while I recognize that not all women are like this). If you unclench and avoid being judgmental you can communicate well and avoid frustration. I was venting on LS. I didn't throw that in her face. I understand it's a difference in style. But asking me to adapt to her style is the same as asking her to adapt to my style... we can try, but we'll get frustrated, which is what happens to me, and what happens to her. She probably rants to her friends about me. At least on LS I can get different perspective from a variety of posters. People are not just here to pat me on the back and agree with everything I say. Which is the true value of LS. But I'm not sure what kind of responses she's getting from her girlfriends. Probably men suck, girl power or something. I wanted to add..stupid edit feature expired!.. I apologize If my advice is unrequested, I get your venting and frustrated. I just thought I'd lend my opinion/perspective on things, that's all. Thanks for your advice. I understand your points, but as you know, easier said than done. But the big question is that balance you've mentioned. How much do you give in? No one can answer that. I'm only willing to take a step forward if she also takes a step forward. But we are unfortunately at opposite ends of the spectrum, and it's difficult to even see that the other person is taking a step forward. It's almost as if I have to do it based on blind faith that she is too. This is exceedingly difficult for me, because I have no faith. In anything. But I'm learning to have faith. Believe it or not, I'm doing things I would have never done before. This is my attempt at growing up. Because she isn't getting a basic relationship need met: commitment. It's her fault, since you've been upfront about not wanting commitment, but still a need is going unmet. If that need were met, she wouldn't be asking such silly questions. The truth is, even if you answered with "our love is forever", it wouldn't satisfy her need. She'd know you were just saying what she wants to hear, and that you still didn't want to commit. I didn't realize commitment = marriage. I'm concerned that I can't give her what she wants. Why would anyone want to be in a relationship where he/she is constantly trying to get the other person to bend? I'm not in this to get my way. I'm trying to find the best resolution. Does she put effort into trying to understand you, and assume the best about your intentions? If so, return the favor! I'm sure she tries, but she fails as often as I do. She has been in abusive relationships. Not physically, but basically, she was with jerks. So she takes everything I say/do negatively and defensively. I grew up in a manipulative family. Manipulation is based on indirectness. this is why I am so direct. And my sister is also an extremely direct woman, to the point that she scares men. While I understand indirect communication isn't always manipulation, but they are the worst way to make me do things. Our past negative experiences makes it very difficult. I told her that before too. We are compatible on many levels, but this, we are on opposite ends. It's going to take a lot of work.
Emilia Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Since you are a self-confessed bimbophile, I'm not really sure why you are surprised why your girlfriend isn't the brightest thing to deal with. On the direct-indirect comment: I agree. I grew up with a manipulative mother and I am very direct as a result. Some men struggle to deal with it, others love it and appreciate it.
GravityMan Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Bristolius had a really good post in this thread. Likewise with Ninja. On a side note, I think the anecdotes mentioned in this thread are one major reason (not the only one of course) why many guys with a scientific, math, technical or engineering background seem to struggle with "getting" women and with maintaining happy relationships. They are dense. The thought processes of such guys are usually firmly established and secured in logic and rationale. From their point of view, everything has to "make sense". 2+2 always has to equal 4. This is fine and necessary for their professions and careers. It also has its place in relationships, but sometimes it's detrimental to interacting with most women and with building relationships (which almost always require some compromises). Many women's thought processes are significantly driven by their emotions, and sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it doesn't. Different people communicate in different styles. For guys who are direct, learning how to read between the lines and interpret indirect language is an important life skill to have.
Author fishtaco Posted July 31, 2012 Author Posted July 31, 2012 So if you use indirect communication you are a bimbo that's not too bright. If you're a technical minded person that uses direct communication then you are dense. Everybody is stupid, yay! Good morning LS. I was wondering when this thread was going to take a turn for the worse. Emilia, she's still my GF no matter what kind of problems we're having, and I don't appreciate you implying she's a bimbo that's not too bright. Yes, I do chase after bimbos, but if you remember, I'm trying to step outside of my normal shell and go after non-bimbos. Hence she's not my type. Normally I would not have dated her because she's not a bimbo. Sure, she uses indirect communication, needs romantic reassurance, and flinches at anything that remotely resembles being aggressive/mean, that doesn't make her a dumb bimbo. Although there's probably a man out there that's a better fit for her than I am. We are all shaped by our past experiences, negative or positive. I have my problems as well, and I'm sure you are not the queen of perfect either. And also I'd like to point out this rant thread isn't just about my GF. It's also about that random stranger that bought something from me off of craiglist, and my past experiences with women. It basically "things women do that annoy me". I don't expect you to read through everything. My rant is for me to vent, it's hardly an entertaining read. It just that various LS posters focused in on my issues with my GF. So please don't make assumptions. Thank you and GravityMan for your insightful comments, and have a good day.
xxoo Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Our past negative experiences makes it very difficult. I told her that before too. We are compatible on many levels, but this, we are on opposite ends. It's going to take a lot of work. fish, there was a lot of insight into this post. It sounds like you both are trying to understand each other, and that's great. As a person in a long term relationship, I have the benefit of hindsight, and I can see how our communication skills have improved together over the years. It does take real effort, but mostly I've found it takes trust and willingness to listen without assuming (general akbar alarms). This goes both ways, of course. Instead of trying to be on top of your game all the time, why not respond with humor? Less big and heavy, more light and relaxed. Not everything is a test. I'll never understand why guys get sucked in to the whole "where do you want to eat?" dance. I'd just keep repeating "How about McDonalds? McDonalds? Oh, I know....McDonalds!" until she thought of something she actually wanted. I've got a husband and kids. I am a master at avoiding power struggles
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