Men/Women communication rant

[fishtaco]

I'm a man, so this is from a man's perspective. I'm sure women are exasperated as much as men are.

 

Rant Part 1:

 

GF and I are coming back from weekend getaway. We heard a song with lyrics about nothing is forever. So she asked me, do I think if anything lasts forever... suddenly General Akbar appeared in my head.

 

The correct answer was, "yes baby, our love lasts forever". But I just couldn't get myself to say it. My answer, no, nothing lasts forever. Even the Earth will get vaporized when the sun becomes a red giant. Yes. Fail. But luckily we just came off a fairly good weekend, so she let it drop.

 

I just don't have what it takes to say things like that. I'd feel like I'm lying. Let just say I'm a man of absolutely no principles (I think a couple of LS posters believe so). If I can't even look her right in the eyes and utter those words, then I simply don't have the necessary tools to be a cheater. That's like step one to cheating - say what she wants to hear with a straight face.

 

Today when I was reading the news, I ran across something... Theodore Powys once said, "The longest life may fade and perish, but one moment can live and become forever". That's a good quote. I should have said that, then infer that our weekend trip was the "moment", and transition to how great of a trip we had. Then it would been disaster averted!

 

So boys, remember this quote too. It could come in handy one day. Or if you could say stuff like "our love lasts forever" to her face, then do that. You won't even need to remember these quotes. Good for you.

 

Being a scientifically minded person (and having a career in a technical field), is good for my wallet, but not good for dealing with women. If I were a literature major, then I'd be able to pull these things out of my butt all day.

[fishtaco]

Rant part 2:

 

So I'm selling something on craigslist. A potential buyer contacted me, we've been communicating via email and text.

 

Normally, we figure out a time and a place. If the buyer doesn't have a suggestion, I'll make one. This time, off of X and Y street, in front of the music store. Done.

 

Well this buyer didn't like my suggestion, but would only come back with general areas that are the size of several cities (I'm in SoCal, cities are pack in right next to each other, so longer streets often cross several cities).

 

So I pulled up the map, picked a place within the buyer's requirements, ok done. 30 minutes later, the buyer wants a new location, one mile away from the location I picked.

 

Okay... if you knew where you wanted to meet, why don't you just say it, instead of having me go on a treasure hunt?

 

Sounds familiar guys?

 

Girl: Let's go eat

Guy: Ok, where do you want to eat?

Girl: I don't care, you pick

Guy: here?

Girl: no

Guy: how about here?

Girl: no

Guy: how about this place?

Girl: okay, if that's what you want

Guy: yes, this is what I want

(at this point, we don't even care, we just want a yes)

Girl: ok

 

5 minutes later...

 

Girl: No, let's go to this other place instead

 

Okay... if you knew where you wanted to go, then spit it out!

 

Anyway, bonus point, the buyer keeps changing the meeting time on me.

 

Conclusion, buyer is a woman. I'll find out later tonight, if she doesn't change anything on me again that is.

[fishtaco]

That's the thing that makes me laugh most when it comes to women. They claim they want men to be honest and then proceed to place general Akbars around every corner.

 

Yes, I should start charging General Akbar rent, since he's in my brain all the time anyway.

[maybealone]

I am a woman with no experience dating women, so I have a question.

 

GF and I are coming back from weekend getaway. We heard a song with lyrics about nothing is forever. So she asked me, do I think if anything lasts forever... suddenly General Akbar appeared in my head.

 

The correct answer was, "yes baby, our love lasts forever".

 

Do women really say things like this? And expect answers like that? Oh my gosh, if a man ever said "yes baby, our love lasts forever" to me, I'd either toss my cookies or say, "next!"

 

Maybe I was born without a romance gene or something.

 

Sounds familiar guys?

 

Girl: Let's go eat

Guy: Ok, where do you want to eat?

Girl: I don't care, you pick

Guy: here?

Girl: no

Guy: how about here?

Girl: no

Guy: how about this place?

Girl: okay, if that's what you want

Guy: yes, this is what I want

(at this point, we don't even care, we just want a yes)

Girl: ok

 

5 minutes later...

 

Girl: No, let's go to this other place instead

 

I am totally guilty of that though. In my defense, however, I am used to trying to read men to figure out what they want to do. Because in my experience, men only ask to be polite and if you pick a restaurant they don't want to go to, they make sure you know they are having a miserable time.

 

I am learning that that's not all men, that many genuinely want to do what the woman wants to do. In return, I am trying to be a better decision maker.

[TigerCub]

Response to Rant #1.

 

I agree with you.

I think its silly if a girl asked that kind of question and then got offended by the truth.

 

Personally if I asked my bf that and he was like "yeah baby, we'll last forever", I'd laugh and tell him that he's full of ****, but that I appreciate the effort. But I'd never ask him that to begin with.

I'm guessing that your gf is young?

 

One of my favorite lines in a song is "Nothing lasts forever and we both know hearts can change" - November Rain (one of my all time favorite songs). Its sad, but its honest.

[serial muse]

This is weird to me. I'm a woman, and I am equally frustrated with people who are passive-aggressive in the way that you described. And yeah, I HATE when people don't voice their opinions about where they really want to go eat, but then act all disappointed. I have had that very experience with my H.

 

Is this really your experience of every single woman you know??

[utterer of lies]

Guy: Ok, where do you want to eat?

 

Conclusion, buyer is a woman. I'll find out later tonight, if she doesn't change anything on me again that is.

 

That's your mistake. Why do you even ask?

 

Just tell her you want to invite to you restaurant X (whatever place you chose). Don't involve her in the decision process.

 

If you want to take her to some place she chose, ask her some other time, not when it's time to make a decision.

[fortyninethousand322]

My mother does the very same thing with my father. My sister does it too. And most women I know do it. The restaurant thing is especially annoying.

[serial muse]

That's your mistake. Why do you even ask?

 

Just tell her you want to invite to you restaurant X (whatever place you chose). Don't involve her in the decision process.

 

If you want to take her to some place she chose, ask her some other time, not when it's time to make a decision.

 

Or just say "give me an address and I'll meet you there."

 

Seriously, I'm having cognitive dissonance with this thread.

 

Although to be honest I often feel that way with these weirdo Mars/Venus threads. I wonder how much of it is confirmation bias. Sorry OP, not trying to stir the pot, just confused.

[fishtaco]

Do you think she's attractive? Do I look fat in this dress? Why aren't we engaged/married/living together ( yet )?

 

Have you been spying on my relationship?

 

I am a woman with no experience dating women, so I have a question.

 

Do women really say things like this? And expect answers like that? Oh my gosh, if a man ever said "yes baby, our love lasts forever" to me, I'd either toss my cookies or say, "next!"

 

That's how I feel. If I had tried to say that sentence, I would have vomited all over the car.

 

I am totally guilty of that though. In my defense, however, I am used to trying to read men to figure out what they want to do. Because in my experience, men only ask to be polite and if you pick a restaurant they don't want to go to, they make sure you know they are having a miserable time.

 

I am learning that that's not all men, that many genuinely want to do what the woman wants to do. In return, I am trying to be a better decision maker.

 

I don't know about other men, since I don't date them. Maybe they act differently in a relationship. But when I'm out with my buddies, if you say "I don't care, you pick", it really means those exact words. So basically, unless you pick a place that serves brain pudding and insect burgers, we will just shrug and go eat there.

 

Or if you say no to a suggestion, then it is your duty to make a suggestion. It makes the decision process MUCH easier.

[serial muse]

Or if you say no to a suggestion, then it is your duty to make a suggestion. It makes the decision process MUCH easier.

 

Yes, totally.

[fortyninethousand322]

I don't know about other men, since I don't date them. Maybe they act differently in a relationship. But when I'm out with my buddies, if you say "I don't care, you pick", it really means those exact words. So basically, unless you pick a place that serves brain pudding and insect burgers, we will just shrug and go eat there.

 

Or if you say no to a suggestion, then it is your duty to make a suggestion. It makes the decision process MUCH easier.

 

Pretty much. There are very few restaurants that have an entire menu devoid of anything edible. Unless it's someplace exotic you can almost always find some variation of: chicken, beef, salad, vegetables, noodles, and bread.

 

You'd have to be pretty picky to go hungry at a typical restaurant.

[fishtaco]

I'm guessing that your gf is young?

 

Nope, mid 40's. Age has nothing to do with anything in my experience.

 

Is this really your experience of every single woman you know??

 

No, this is one of the qualities that separates high maintenance vs low maintenance women. Unfortunately, physical attractiveness often go hand-in-hand with maintenance requirements. Not always. I'm sure there's an intelligent, beautiful, low maintenance, interesting, great personality woman out there. But that's rare, in my experience.

 

Or just say "give me an address and I'll meet you there."

 

Because that's implied. If you negate my suggestion, then you make a suggestion. Instead, the buyer gave me the name of a major street that runs across 5 or 6 cities. So I ended up picking again.

 

Then after we agreed, why pick a place that's a mile away? What do you gain by driving a mile less? Plus the place I picked was next to the police station. Don't you think that'd be the best place to meet up with some stranger at night?

 

Makes no sense. Hence my prediction is that the buyer is a woman. Women's decisions boggle my mind. All the time.

 

This weekend we forgot sunscreen. So I borrowed one of those spray ones from someone and offered it to my GF. She declined. Then got burnt. Why? I have no idea.

[ThaWholigan]

Reminds me of that passage in the David Deida book about the Lottery and the Milk.

[FitChick]

She wanted you to say, "Diamonds are forever" and whip out a ring.

[fishtaco]

She wanted you to say, "Diamonds are forever" and whip out a ring.

 

Oh we already had a fight about that. I'm sure it'll happen again.

[xxoo]

Oh we already had a fight about that. I'm sure it'll happen again.

 

Sounds like commitment is a sore subject in your relationship. Has it been in all your relationships? That might explain why you see this behavior in "all" women.

[maybealone]

I don't know about other men, since I don't date them. Maybe they act differently in a relationship. But when I'm out with my buddies, if you say "I don't care, you pick", it really means those exact words.

 

I should have added that when I say I don't care where we eat, I mean I really don't care where we eat. Seriously, I just love going out to eat and I like every kind of food. Where we go or what we eat doesn't matter to me, unless I'm starving and you're picking a restaurant two hours away.

 

But if forced to pick, I hem and haw because I am used to men that ask even though they know they want Chinese food and will have a miserable time if I pick a steak place. So I would make like three suggestions and try to read the guy's response to try and figure out what it was that he actually wanted.

 

But I am learning that not all men are like that!

[fishtaco]

Sounds like commitment is a sore subject in your relationship. Has it been in all your relationships? That might explain why you see this behavior in "all" women.

 

I don't want to get married, ever. I make that clear from day one. I've had women that were interested that decided not to date me because of it. I don't blame them. It's as unfair for me to expect them to give up marriage for me as it is for me to marry for them. And I'm honest about it. So if there's an issue, it's not mine.

 

And, I don't see this in "all" women. These are common female behaviors that I'd run into, or observe in my friends' relationships. And in this case, even some random woman that's trying to buy some stuff from me on craigslist.

 

Here's another one...

Guy: Orders burgers + fries

Girl: Don't you want to get the burger with onion rings?

Guy: No, I feel like fries today, why?

Girl: oh, nothing, just that you usually get onion rings.

 

What's going on here? Because the girl wants onion rings.

 

Look ladies, I'll pay. If you want onion rings, order it, and I'll pay for it, I don't even care if you eat two and throw away the rest. At the very least, come clean about it. But don't try to jedi-mind-trick me into ordering what you want to eat.

 

No, not all women are like this. But many are. It's so common that I'm sure many guys reading this are nodding their heads.

 

It's not good, it's not bad, it's just a common disconnect between the genders. This is my interpretation, because I'm a guy. I'm sure you ladies have a list of things too.

 

It is what it is. Bottom line, deal with it, or be celibate.

[Woggle]

Thank god my wife is nothing like this. She is as straightforward as you can get

[fishtaco]

Yes, ****ing yes. Do you want something? No im fine.

 

Alright I'll have x,y,z

 

10 minutes later, can I have some of your fries?

 

Im about to choke a bitch.

 

To be fair, there is a nice romantic-ness to sharing each other's food, and eating out of each other's plates.

 

But, do that when you are "tasting food", i.e. at some new/fancy restaurant and you are curious about their food. So you talk about it... I'll order this with this side and you order that with that side, then we trade.

 

That's great!

 

But if we're just out at a burger joint we've been to 1000 times, and we're just grabbing a bite to eat so we can finish up shopping, then the purpose isn't "tasting food". The purpose is to eat-to-get-hunger-out-of-the-way so you can continue your day. Then please don't pull this stunt.

 

Priorities.

 

Unfortunately, that list is never the same.

[ascendotum]

My mother does the very same thing with my father. My sister does it too. And most women I know do it. The restaurant thing is especially annoying.

 

haha. I remember growing up seeing the restaurant thing played out with my mother as well. Dad asking were do you want go. Her, why dont you use your own initiative to come up with something. So dad does, no.1 choice, gets shot down, no.2 choice gets shot down, no.3 gets shot for some other various reason. In the end she ends up going where she wants. Dejavu for me later in life. Grrrr!

 

We need a general sun tzu in our head as well. I've found its better to spin things back if possible. "Why do you say that for. Dont you think we will be together forever. Are you having second thoughts about us. Have you developed feelings for someone else you like better." frown face.

[Ninjainpajamas]

Pretty funny, I know exactly where you're coming from.

 

Some women are passive aggressive, indecisive, and not very good at being expressive in terms of their intent or being direct...they go around the back door to see If anyone is home instead of using the front door.

 

Passive aggressive in terms of It doesn't sound like she's going to back away from this long-term commitment/future situation, she's essentially just "waiting it out" hoping that eventually you'll change your mind.

 

Regardless of how clear you make it to women...they are still women, they are still going to be compelled by their emotions and that's going to overwhelm any logical reasoning or explanation you give them...at some point It's going to be a problem and It'll continue to be a problem until she gets enough strength to walk away on her on.

 

I only had one relationship where my GF at the time said early on that she didn't ever want to get married....yet sure enough, guess what came up!...she tried and tried to pretend she didn't care but I could tell...every relationship otherwise the woman brought up marriage, regardless of how different her background, culture, lifestyle, way of thinking was. But that's just my experience.

 

Indecisive women will also give you several options, not because they want to choose your option but because they want you to pretend that your opinion actually matters. They need you to get the ball rolling, therefore what I do is just say anything yet I leave a lull, like count to five seconds...

 

Girl: "Where do you want to eat?"

 

Guy: "Hmm (this is where you pretend to be thinking)...well how about this place, or that place?"

 

Girl: "Well that doesn't sound good, how about this place?"

 

Guy: "That sounds great!, let's ****ing go!"

 

Girl: "Is that what you really want or are you just going there because that's what I wanted?"

 

Guy: "No It sounds good, I'm in the mood for it"

 

Basically as a man you've just gotta lie because the more you beat your head against the wall and let it frustrate you will get you no where..same thing with the outfits

 

Girl: "You like the blue or the red?"

 

Guy: "I'll go with the blue"

 

Girl: "Do you really think the blue looks better than the red?"

 

Guy: "Yeah...I like both though, they're both nice"

 

Girl: "Ok...I'm going to go with the red"

 

It really doesn't matter what you say or your opinion, It's just a matter of you putting it out there, the more you care and become frustrated the more fighting and bickering you'll have over it...but It's a losing battle IF you're fighting it and only going to make you get the ***** stick....there's nothing to gain, she won't change.

 

As far as foodies go (which may be what you're dealing with here as well) they don't want to order something because they want you to so that they can eat it or share but not feel like a fattie! they want that *****, they just don't want to order it themselves....they don't want to feel like "god I'm ordering onion rings for myself" therefore It's like hey, don't you want this or that? which basically means I want it too! therefore IF she suggests something just get it separately, she'll eat that ***** you just gotta eat one or two yourself because nobody likes getting fat alone!

 

I get your frustration and venting, It's bringing back flashbacks for me too!

 

I had another ex on the other hand, who was extremely clear, transparent, actually took my advice on where to eat or what to wear and we both didn't care and understood It was just some fuel so I don't rip off someones head cause I get annoyed when very hungry and I didn't have any of those problems. Of course she wanted to eat a pound of chocolate a day If she could, that was her obsession we had to work with :S

[fishtaco]

Ninjainpajamas...

 

Good post. Whether I learn to handle it or not, it's still silly if I'm in a good mood, and annoying if I'm in a not so good mood.

 

But I understand, if I want to be with a woman, this is just what I have to put up with. And I'm sure my GF puts up with a lot of crap from me too. I believe the essence to a successful relationship is not about common interests or even passion. It's about how well you can put up with each other.

 

Part of this venting thread is about my GF, but part of it is also about women in general. I believe most women will do a subset of these things as opposed to everything. My GF doesn't exhibit every single one of them. Right now our biggest issue is that she needs story book romantic feedback from me, and I can't give that to her, as seen in rant #1.

 

The problem with doing what you said is that you have to be mentally prepared and on your game. I can't say I'm always there. Sometimes I am, but sometimes she'll catch me off guard. It's very tiring to be on top of the game all the time.

 

And you are 100% right, she's not backing away from this commitment thing. I'll always be right when it comes to this issue, because I've been 100% honest with her since day one. But being right never helps a relationship.

 

Deal with it as it comes right?

 

By the way OP be very wary of women looking for commitment, some of them are perfectly willing to pull an "accidental" pregnancy to try to lock you down.

 

Oh I know. I have that taken care of already. I'm not stupid.

 

But with my relationship, at least this is NOT an issue at all.

[Ninjainpajamas]

Ninjainpajamas...

 

Good post. Whether I learn to handle it or not, it's still silly if I'm in a good mood, and annoying if I'm in a not so good mood.

 

But I understand, if I want to be with a woman, this is just what I have to put up with. And I'm sure my GF puts up with a lot of crap from me too. I believe the essence to a successful relationship is not about common interests or even passion. It's about how well you can put up with each other.

 

Part of this venting thread is about my GF, but part of it is also about women in general. I believe most women will do a subset of these things as opposed to everything. My GF doesn't exhibit every single one of them. Right now our biggest issue is that she needs story book romantic feedback from me, and I can't give that to her, as seen in rant #1.

 

The problem with doing what you said is that you have to be mentally prepared and on your game. I can't say I'm always there. Sometimes I am, but sometimes she'll catch me off guard. It's very tiring to be on top of the game all the time.

 

And you are 100% right, she's not backing away from this commitment thing. I'll always be right when it comes to this issue, because I've been 100% honest with her since day one. But being right never helps a relationship.

 

Deal with it as it comes right?

 

You know I get where you're coming from "Why do I have to change for something that she does or any other woman?" I get ya man in that respect, but at the same time you've got to step back and ask yourself what's worth it?

 

Is it...

 

A) Not adapting and expecting the impossible, her (whoever that may be) to change and sticking to your guns because it feels like too much effort or energy draw into something that's kind of "stupid"

 

or

 

B) Do I just play the game by her rules and bite the bullet and annoy the hell out of myself because I have to focus the energy anyway?

 

I think the bottom line is in a relationship, you're going to have to make these sacrifices...and who does it stand to benefit though? think about that? If you conform to her rules and make her happy, does that make her happy and you upset? It might at first, but once you learn to let that go and you just do it then If the woman is happy she's likely going to want to really make you happy.

 

Women want understanding...even If it doesn't make any sense...even or especially If it isn't fair..they want you to do something because you "feel" they're worth the sacrifice or effort...does that make more sense?

 

It's not about the rules or rationale, they want that understanding, attention and they know when you're doing something you don't want to do and you do it anyway, what shows a woman you care about her more than that? You put her first, not because you don't respect yourself but because you know it makes her happy and you support her in that even though she's not perfect and you recognize that.

 

It's all about compromise and sacrifice and even compatibility. What can you accept or tolerate? what is unacceptable to you? What are you willing to bend and met a woman half way on?

 

You've got to determine where to draw the line in the sand, no woman is going to be completely rational and perfect, you need some wiggle room in terms of understanding and compromise, you will have to bite the bullet on somethings whether you think you're more right, smart about it and it just makes more sense...when women don't make any sense! well most of the time. And that's what you really got to let go and accept, and understand, it'll make things easier for you to cope with If you change your perspective.

 

She's a woman...she loves you...she wants to be with you...she wants the long-term. You know how women are man, they do a lot for the men they love and they accept a whole lot more about us than we could honestly ever come half way to accepting about them. They're extremely understanding and compromising and try to make us happy and accommodate to our quirks, demands, stubbornness, pride, ego etc...all they want is some love, attention, care, for you to put the effort and be attentive to their feelings...don't fight it Fishtaco, or you will definitely go down in a blaze of glory!

 

Be clear about your intentions, but always respect her, respect that she loves you and is there for you and she cares and wants a future. Just give her a little bit back, she already likely knows it's not forever or that it would lead to marriage but indulge her in the moment sometimes...not lie, but be romantic/lovey dovey once in a while.