Keep getting friend-zoned

[Otty]

I have been following LS for a while now but want some advice so I am posting for the first time. Please be gentle on me :-)

 

Let me give you a little background. I will be as brief as possible.

 

I probably go out with 3-4 women on average per year, and despite being described as fun, nice and a great guy by most of my dates, within 2-3 dates at the most the women always tell me they would rather be friends. You can't have too many friends but it's always tough doing stuff as friends with a woman you like, so I usually move on when this happens.

 

I know I am a unique person and have some circumstances that probably hinder my prospects a bit. For one thing, I still live at home. I know many women like their dates to be more independent, but mom really takes care of me, lol, and I can't see the point of moving out until I have to, which would be when I'm in a serious relationship and ready to live with my SO.

 

If I lived on my own I would also have to give up my job, which I love, and get something that paid more money. I work as a curator at a history museum mainly spending my work days giving guided tours for groups who stop in to the museum. Many of our guests are kids and I love answering their questions and explaining early American history to them.

 

I also have a lot of hobbies and other interests that I think some women might enjoy. I am a big science-fiction nut and have collected comic books since I was a kid. I spend a lot of my free time hiking and rock climbing and would love to have a partner.

 

Anyway, I would love any advice anyone can give me on how to attract a woman into my life. I can say without a doubt that I would endlessly spoil the right woman. She would be my princess and my life would revolve around her. I would always treat her right and never be unfaithful.

 

I am sorry to ramble so much. Women are usually so nice to me and seem to like me a lot; I just need to know how to keep them interested and around for the long term. Thanks for the advice

[Stellar Wench]

I have been following LS for a while now but want some advice so I am posting for the first time. Please be gentle on me :-)

 

Let me give you a little background. I will be as brief as possible.

 

I probably go out with 3-4 women on average per year, and despite being described as fun, nice and a great guy by most of my dates, within 2-3 dates at the most the women always tell me they would rather be friends. You can't have too many friends but it's always tough doing stuff as friends with a woman you like, so I usually move on when this happens.

 

I know I am a unique person and have some circumstances that probably hinder my prospects a bit. For one thing, I still live at home. I know many women like their dates to be more independent, but mom really takes care of me, lol, and I can't see the point of moving out until I have to, which would be when I'm in a serious relationship and ready to live with my SO.

 

If I lived on my own I would also have to give up my job, which I love, and get something that paid more money. I work as a curator at a history museum mainly spending my work days giving guided tours for groups who stop in to the museum. Many of our guests are kids and I love answering their questions and explaining early American history to them.

 

I also have a lot of hobbies and other interests that I think some women might enjoy. I am a big science-fiction nut and have collected comic books since I was a kid. I spend a lot of my free time hiking and rock climbing and would love to have a partner.

 

Anyway, I would love any advice anyone can give me on how to attract a woman into my life. I can say without a doubt that I would endlessly spoil the right woman. She would be my princess and my life would revolve around her. I would always treat her right and never be unfaithful.

 

I am sorry to ramble so much. Women are usually so nice to me and seem to like me a lot; I just need to know how to keep them interested and around for the long term. Thanks for the advice

I think even I lost some testosterone reading that post.

When you decide to stop being a mama's boy, you'll get more dates.

[MrCastle]

Escalate from the start and make your intentions known that you're not interested in friends. Being called "nice" and "a great guy" by women who are not sleeping with you are not compliments; they are polite rejections.

[jobaba]

I think even I lost some testosterone reading that post.

When you decide to stop being a mama's boy, you'll get more dates.

 

Harsh as this sounds, it's true.

 

You're probably not so great looking. You're gonna need some SWAG and attitude to create attraction for a lot of women. It's OK. There's some of us in the same boat.

 

Could you naturally meet a woman through regular daily ho-hum and hit it off and she loves you for who you are?

 

Yes. But that may also never happen, and you will die alone.

 

Hmmm. Think Thomas Hayden Church from the movie Sideways. Cocky, funny, but not arrogant or classless. If you've never seen it, Netflix it.

[Otty]

Oops! Didn't mean to steal any of your testosterone I agree that living at home probably harms my prospects some but as with any major life change you have to consider all of the positives and negatives in making a decision. I would have no problem living alone but I'm not sure I want to give up all of the good aspects of home. Probably at some point I will go on my own but that involves a new career and other changes too.

[Otty]

I do tend to ask women out on "dates" and am clear about that. My problem is that once we go out once or twice and get to know one another better then her interest, romantically, tends to wane.

[Otty]

I'm not sure I would know how to get any "SWAG" or "attitude"? I just try to be myself around women and let them become acquainted with the genuine me. I know I might do better with a different attitude or personality, but wouldn't I be putting on a false front or being fake? What's the point of pretending you're someone you're not when she will eventually discover the real you anyway?

 

Thanks to everyone for all of the helpful replies :-)

[MrCastle]

Oops! Didn't mean to steal any of your testosterone I agree that living at home probably harms my prospects some but as with any major life change you have to consider all of the positives and negatives in making a decision. I would have no problem living alone but I'm not sure I want to give up all of the good aspects of home. Probably at some point I will go on my own but that involves a new career and other changes too.

 

I live at home. It's never interfered with my dating life. Don't use external factors as your reason for not being successful. The only thing holding you back is you.

 

As for "swag", you don't need it. You need to be yourself, just a better version of yourself.

[jobaba]

I'm not sure I would know how to get any "SWAG" or "attitude"? I just try to be myself around women and let them become acquainted with the genuine me. I know I might do better with a different attitude or personality, but wouldn't I be putting on a false front or being fake? What's the point of pretending you're someone you're not when she will eventually discover the real you anyway?

 

Thanks to everyone for all of the helpful replies :-)

 

SWAG doesn't mean act like Vin Diesel or the ROCK. It means be a little bit cockier and funnier and more assertive.

 

I know a guy who is really quiet monotone, and very passive and non-excitable. That is his regular personality. His job is as a librarian.

 

He struggles to attract even women who are very similar to him in personality. It's one of the things that sucks about being a guy. Gals like guys with confidence and attitude even if they don't have it themselves.

 

I live at home. It's never interfered with my dating life. Don't use external factors as your reason for not being successful. The only thing holding you back is you.

 

As for "swag", you don't need it. You need to be yourself, just a better version of yourself.

 

That's what SWAG means. Just more confidence and attitude of your base persona.

[fishtaco]

Here are some concepts that applies:

 

- When women are not on your program, they are dropped. No one can friendzone you unless you allow them. You always have the ace card. The ace card is to drop them.

- Dating is a quantity game. It's more important to have the ability to generate new opportunities than the ability to chase an opportunity until the end.

- Women don't care about comic books. Keep that to yourself. It doesn't have to be a secret, but treat it as what it is... your unadvertised nerd hobby.

- Being yourself is great, but if being yourself isn't working, then keep being yourself means it'll keep not working.

- Dating is sales and marketing. You don't want to put on your dating face? Ok, sure, but I have a dating face I put on, and with it, I will take your girl. Remember, dating isn't just you and the girl. There are other competitions. There is truth to "put your best foot forward".

- Don't mix up dating and relationships. Relationships are about the real you. Dating is about how good you can make yourself look. Women are not all wise and all knowing creatures. They make mistakes like all consumers do... people often buy products with the best packaging as opposed to the best engineered. Just look at Apple products (just kidding).

[jobaba]

Here are some concepts that applies:

 

- When women are not on your program, they are dropped. No one can friendzone you unless you allow them. You always have the ace card. The ace card is to drop them.

- Dating is a quantity game. It's more important to have the ability to generate new opportunities than the ability to chase an opportunity until the end.

- Women don't care about comic books. Keep that to yourself. It doesn't have to be a secret, but treat it as what it is... your unadvertised nerd hobby.

- Being yourself is great, but if being yourself isn't working, then keep being yourself means it'll keep not working.

- Dating is sales and marketing. You don't want to put on your dating face? Ok, sure, but I have a dating face I put on, and with it, I will take your girl. Remember, dating isn't just you and the girl. There are other competitions. There is truth to "put your best foot forward".

- Don't mix up dating and relationships. Relationships are about the real you. Dating is about how good you can make yourself look. Women are not all wise and all knowing creatures. They make mistakes like all consumers do... people often buy products with the best packaging as opposed to the best engineered. Just look at Apple products (just kidding).

 

+1 x 10^6 on everything just said. Especially the bolded.

[Otty]

Here are some concepts that applies:

 

- When women are not on your program, they are dropped. No one can friendzone you unless you allow them. You always have the ace card. The ace card is to drop them.

- Dating is a quantity game. It's more important to have the ability to generate new opportunities than the ability to chase an opportunity until the end.

- Women don't care about comic books. Keep that to yourself. It doesn't have to be a secret, but treat it as what it is... your unadvertised nerd hobby.

- Being yourself is great, but if being yourself isn't working, then keep being yourself means it'll keep not working.

- Dating is sales and marketing. You don't want to put on your dating face? Ok, sure, but I have a dating face I put on, and with it, I will take your girl. Remember, dating isn't just you and the girl. There are other competitions. There is truth to "put your best foot forward".

- Don't mix up dating and relationships. Relationships are about the real you. Dating is about how good you can make yourself look. Women are not all wise and all knowing creatures. They make mistakes like all consumers do... people often buy products with the best packaging as opposed to the best engineered. Just look at Apple products (just kidding).

 

A lot of good stuff to think about here

[Bob_Funk]

You need to get these women back to your place and make a move asap. Like as soon as you meet them. If they won't go along with it, they're dead to you. Sounds over-the-top, but I speak from experience. Guys who don't possess perfect model looks can't afford to take things slowly in this fast paced, anonymous world of online dating and social networking. Where any non-hideous woman is getting a hundred offers a week. You'll simply be forgotten the next day.

 

This should be your new motto: "F me or f off."

[jobaba]

You need to get these women back to your place and make a move asap. Like as soon as you meet them. If they won't go along with it, they're dead to you.

 

:lmao:

[irc333]

but mom really takes care of me

 

Yeah, lost some testosterone when I saw this as well. Yikes. LOL

[monkey00]

Ok, let's get some more details with this post to find out what's going on:

 

How old are you? How old are these women you go out with?

How long do the dates last?

Where/what are the dates?

What do you guys talk about?

How soon/late until you make a move?

[Otty]

Thanks for the responses everyone :-)

 

To answer your questions, monkey00, I am 38 years old. Most of the women I have gone out with on dates range from probably 28-38. Most of these women, I went out with once or twice. I think I lasted 4 dates with one woman a couple of years ago. Usually, for my dates, I will take the woman for lunch or coffee and then maybe some activity like a street festival, art gallery or just a walk in the park. I have taken a woman hiking in a nearby national forest a couple of times and have also taken women bowling before. Generally, we talk about everything. I try to get to know the women, asking them about work, hobbies, interests, etc. I usually try to let them talk as much as possible and play off that since it is a lot easier that way compared with coming up with new stuff to talk about myself. Most of the first dates would end with a hug or shaking hands. I did kiss the woman on the lips a few times when I got to a second or further date. The woman I went out with 4 times kissed me for about 15-20 minutes after our 2nd and 3rd dates and we seemed to really be getting into one another. Unfortuantely, after our last date, she told me she thought we would be better as friends and only gave me a hug.

 

I think I answered everything, lol

[Jethro]

Good god, you are an adult child. No woman wants an adult child. Go live on your own, take care of yourself and then you'll mostly likely get the respect of more women.

[Otty]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "adult child." Because I live at home? I'm sure I'm not the only person this describes and I am otherwise independent. I support myself, pay for dates and generally take care of things. Is this what you are talking about?

[fishtaco]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "adult child." Because I live at home? I'm sure I'm not the only person this describes and I am otherwise independent. I support myself, pay for dates and generally take care of things. Is this what you are talking about?

 

Perception my friend, perception. You live with your mom, immediate strike against you. Are there women that are willing to overlook that? Of course, but you've just cut out a large portion of women that won't over look it.

 

If you're 38, you should be living on your own. It doesn't prove anything, but it's all about the perception.

 

Maybe you can spin it like you're staying with your mom to help take care of her or something, I don't know. I moved out of my parents' house as soon as I finished college.

[2.50 a gallon]

On average I had sex with my date on the first date about one third of time, two thirds by the second date, and if it didn't happen, by the third date it never happened.

 

From your first post it sounds as if you were making great progress a couple of times, but had no where to take your date to be more intimate

 

By still living with your mom at age 38, most women are immdediately going to see you as a mommas boy, and momma will be seen as a competitor.

 

Women are looking for a man who takes chances or risks, by living at home, they see you as a play it safer

[Revolver]

Once a woman sees you as a friend, it's pretty much over. Time to move on

[2.50 a gallon]

Also by not having your own place you are giving up a chance to put your personality on display

 

A woman can quickly read what a man is really like by spending some time at his place.

 

Is the place clean?

 

What kind of magazines are laying around, Sports Illustrated, TV Guide, National Geographic.

 

What kinds of books does he read? What kinds of music does he like? His choice in movies? What about the pictures on the wall?

 

What other interests does he have? Tropical fish? Snakes? Hamsters?

[todreaminblue]

I have been following LS for a while now but want some advice so I am posting for the first time. Please be gentle on me :-)

 

Let me give you a little background. I will be as brief as possible.

 

I probably go out with 3-4 women on average per year, and despite being described as fun, nice and a great guy by most of my dates, within 2-3 dates at the most the women always tell me they would rather be friends. You can't have too many friends but it's always tough doing stuff as friends with a woman you like, so I usually move on when this happens.

 

I know I am a unique person and have some circumstances that probably hinder my prospects a bit. For one thing, I still live at home. I know many women like their dates to be more independent, but mom really takes care of me, lol, and I can't see the point of moving out until I have to, which would be when I'm in a serious relationship and ready to live with my SO.

 

If I lived on my own I would also have to give up my job, which I love, and get something that paid more money. I work as a curator at a history museum mainly spending my work days giving guided tours for groups who stop in to the museum. Many of our guests are kids and I love answering their questions and explaining early American history to them.

 

I also have a lot of hobbies and other interests that I think some women might enjoy. I am a big science-fiction nut and have collected comic books since I was a kid. I spend a lot of my free time hiking and rock climbing and would love to have a partner.

 

Anyway, I would love any advice anyone can give me on how to attract a woman into my life. I can say without a doubt that I would endlessly spoil the right woman. She would be my princess and my life would revolve around her. I would always treat her right and never be unfaithful.

 

I am sorry to ramble so much. Women are usually so nice to me and seem to like me a lot; I just need to know how to keep them interested and around for the long term. Thanks for the advice

 

[quote}I would endlessly spoil the right woman. She would be my princess and my life would revolve around her. I would always treat her right and never be unfaithful.

 

I am going to be gentle.....say that quote above aloud to yourself.....that's the friend zone....girls believe in finding their prince....women believe in the man....puppies and princes or dogs and men....

 

which pair do you take out at night when walking down a deserted street that the street lights have been taken out by vandals, do you take the puppy and the prince or the rottie and the man......not all females think the way i do.....so you dont even have to take my advice....i friend zoned males i liked....

 

i was intimate with the men who treated me like a woman should be treated .... not with kid gloves but with honesty and the whispers in the ear should not be g rated and gentle.....a woman wants her heart to hammer not flutter...she wants reality not fairy tales she reads sleeping beauty to the kids so they go to sleep faster..so her man can .........i have been gentle and g rated its hard stuff being a princess....the tutu is a bitch to wear would rather get.........smilin.....good luck in your princess hunt..have to go feed my rottie now she is chewing the walls.......best wishes....deb