Women don't think it's a date by default?

July 19, 2012

Seriously, this is not a GENDER bashing thread at all.

But latey, it's been a shocker to me how some women, when a guy asks them out, "Hey, let's grab a bite to eat." or "Let's grab a drink Fri night."

For some reason, they seem to naively think that it's NOT a date by default.

I don't know what the deal is, but let's say if I had met women face to face, when I ask them out.....well...one time when I asked this woman out....her reaction was, "Hm, it sounds like a date."

And I'm like "Duh, of course!"

I actually had one woman agree to a date, then she called me back 15 mins later and asked me, "You don't think this is a date,do you?"

And I said, "Well, yeah, of course it is."

And she backed out.

That being said, why do women automatically assume it's NOT a date, while men assume that it IS a date?

July 19, 2012

I don't think that's necessarily how it works per se. I think some guys run into women thinking it's 'not a date' (and maybe this is the case with you) because they give out absolutely no date-like signals. No playful flirtation, no suggested romantic interest, etc. But I don't think it's ALWAYS - it's more that women assume it's not a date without some kind of romantic energy and men don't pay attention to the energy as much.

I also know some men who could be similarly oblivious IF the woman who wants to hang out with him (and is romantically interested) is unattractive to them. Which is often what happens with women. If a guy who she's HOPING is expressing romantic interest in her asks her out, she may not assume it's a date, but she may hope it is and act as though it is. Men do that too, if they'd be interested in hooking up with the girl, but not if she's completely unattractive to them, from what I've seen.

As to why: I think perhaps women often want to socialize with men more than men want to socialize with women (not ALL certainly), just due to women being socialized by society to be slightly more social and effusive in general. Additionally, there are women who want orbiters who factor in, but that's not every case. Men don't really want orbiters they don't get to bang.

So those are some of the social dynamics at work. Easily avoidable by just infusing more sexual energy and flirtation into your ask-outs. You'll get more turn-downs, but those turn-downs would never have really dated you anyway.

July 19, 2012

Well, let me tell you from my experience.

Some women are just naive or let themselves get deluded into having a male friend, but they don't know about how to say 'this is not going anywhere, just friends'.

They think it, and they try to tip the guy off, but they forget [or don't know or want to know] that guys don't respond well to this, we need verbalization.

There is also what Jobaba recently posted about women and rejection.

Some other women just enjoy the attention lavished on them.

On the other hand, there are some women who delight on taken out, dined out, etc ... even when they know the guy considers it a date.

Their reasoning is that she is giving him her companionship, and is in good clothes, so she doesn't need to feel bad about the meal, tickets, or wasted time.

I asked some of these women 'why not tell the guy ?', their answer was 'i don't want to make him feel bad and i do give him my company'.

This was coming from women in a commited relationship, not interested in the guy in the least at the time, and last but not least ... one in a gay relationship.

The guy doesn't have a chance in hell. I personally think these women are the above type that rationalise the guilt away.

Don't get bothered by it irc333, neither is the type of woman that you want to spend your life with, so they are doing you a favour.

PS: Zengirl is spot on too.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Radu

July 19, 2012

But latey, it's been a shocker to me how some women, when a guy asks them out, "Hey, let's grab a bite to eat." or "Let's grab a drink Fri night."

For some reason, they seem to naively think that it's NOT a date by default.

Here's my perspective.

If a man said to me "Hey, let's grab a bite to eat." or "Let's grab a drink Fri night." I would NOT assume he is asking me on a date. BUT I also would not say yes unless I was HOPING it was a date. In other words, if it is ambiguous I would err on the side of not leading someone on that I was not interested in. (Unless it was a man I have already established a friendship with, like my male buddy who is 25 years older than me. We have established that grabbing a bite to eat together will never turn into dating.)

Personally, I would prefer men be less ambiguous. Say, "I want to go out with you. How about drinks Friday night?" Then I am not left wondering what your intent is.

July 19, 2012

Seriously, this is not a GENDER bashing thread at all.

But latey, it's been a shocker to me how some women, when a guy asks them out, "Hey, let's grab a bite to eat." or "Let's grab a drink Fri night."

For some reason, they seem to naively think that it's NOT a date by default.

I don't know what the deal is, but let's say if I had met women face to face, when I ask them out.....well...one time when I asked this woman out....her reaction was, "Hm, it sounds like a date."

And I'm like "Duh, of course!"

I actually had one woman agree to a date, then she called me back 15 mins later and asked me, "You don't think this is a date,do you?"

And I said, "Well, yeah, of course it is."

And she backed out.

That being said, why do women automatically assume it's NOT a date, while men assume that it IS a date?

Maybe you should take the "grab" part out of your speech. Makes it sound too casual as in two friends are out shopping and decide to "grab a bite to eat". Maybe you should say "Let's go out for drinks on Friday night" or something that makes it clear it's a date.

July 19, 2012

There's this one female friend I know, late 40's, extremely naive when it comes to this. Maybe it was because she was new to the dating scene after having gotten out of a relationship of 5 years.

She's very friendly and gets along with everyone in general, (perhaps that's why men are attracted to her)

There was this man, has a successful dental practice (he's a dentist). They were both part of this outdoors group, and he asked if she could carpool with him to this weekend camp out.

He had a Recreational Vehicle they shared together and came together in. She slept in the same vehicle as he did. But they didn't sleep together. Just in separate parts of the vehicle.

Over the weekend, he kind of grew attached to her, started becoming a bit jealous even when other guys were trying to talk to her in a flirtaceous manner.

Anyhow, when they were coming back from the trip, he asked if she and he would want to stop off at the beach to go walking...she agreed to it...and almost like a marriage proposal, he asked her to be his girlfriend.

Of course, her response wasn't one that was in his favor either, and he was completely devasted by it.

Of course, he went into it with expectations so it was not entirely his fault either for her allowing herself to "bunk" with him.

On other occasions, she'd carpool with a guy to a BBQ event, and when they'd get there, he'd be putting his hand on the small of her back, calling her "honey" and other terms of endearment.

She had to quickly take them aside and tell them to knock it off.

This has been a constant pattern with her and men assuming that just because they CAME together to an event, that they're coupled up.

Back in the old days, everyone pretty much assumed that if you came together to an event, went out together alone, one on one....you were on a date or dating.

You know what's sad is....that when your friends happen to catch you out with a woman, they say, "Hey, cute girl.....was she your date?"

Of course, how to answer? I guess they'd say, "Well, I'm working on it" or maybe they'll lie to their friends? Of course, it might get back to her that they're dating, too.

July 19, 2012

Maybe you should take the "grab" part out of your speech. Makes it sound too casual as in two friends are out shopping and decide to "grab a bite to eat". Maybe you should say "Let's go out for drinks on Friday night" or something that makes it clear it's a date.

You see, over the years when people had been giving "dating advice" to phrase it such a manner as to NOT sound forward.

I had friends tell me, "Yeah, that's how I met my wife...just say "Hey, let's grab a bite after we get done with this volunteer project. One thing led to another, and BOOM, we got married!"

But somehow, that advice from the married couple had NEVER worked with me or some other chronically single people. LOL

Perhaps you're just better off being forward?

July 19, 2012

I ALWAYS think it is a date

Anything that involves one on one activities is a date unless HE says otherwise.

July 19, 2012

Right, like if you flirt with a woman, or if you get her to to "grab" a bite....and you attempt flirting then or perhaps touch her in a certain way (like on the small of her back).

She might think, "Oh, I think this guy LIKES me" and might establish how she feels.

I don't think that's necessarily how it works per se. I think some guys run into women thinking it's 'not a date' (and maybe this is the case with you) because they give out absolutely no date-like signals. No playful flirtation, no suggested romantic interest, etc. But I don't think it's ALWAYS - it's more that women assume it's not a date without some kind of romantic energy and men don't pay attention to the energy as much.

I also know some men who could be similarly oblivious IF the woman who wants to hang out with him (and is romantically interested) is unattractive to them. Which is often what happens with women. If a guy who she's HOPING is expressing romantic interest in her asks her out, she may not assume it's a date, but she may hope it is and act as though it is. Men do that too, if they'd be interested in hooking up with the girl, but not if she's completely unattractive to them, from what I've seen.

As to why: I think perhaps women often want to socialize with men more than men want to socialize with women (not ALL certainly), just due to women being socialized by society to be slightly more social and effusive in general. Additionally, there are women who want orbiters who factor in, but that's not every case. Men don't really want orbiters they don't get to bang.

So those are some of the social dynamics at work. Easily avoidable by just infusing more sexual energy and flirtation into your ask-outs. You'll get more turn-downs, but those turn-downs would never have really dated you anyway.

July 19, 2012

OP, this is known as 'fluid thinking'. It morphs to match emotions. At the point of the call, for example, and agreement, she felt like it was a date. Upon further reflection, or calling a girlfriend, or having a fight with her mother, her feelings changed, hence her thinking changed, and it wasn't a date.

This is why I go with the 'holding your hand when you die' rule. Everything else is fluid.

I just remembered one encounter where we're feeding each other dinner, playing footsie under the table and she's telling me she loves me. Then, later, true to fluidity, 'you know we're just friends and not a couple, right?'

Enjoy your life man. You'll develop a sense of humor about this stuff.

Edited July 19, 2012 by carhill

July 19, 2012

Speaking of the "hand holding", how about this Number from Seinfeld...when determing "interest"?

LOL

TOO funny!

OP, this is known as 'fluid thinking'. It morphs to match emotions. At the point of the call, for example, and agreement, she felt like it was a date. Upon further reflection, or calling a girlfriend, or having a fight with her mother, her feelings changed, hence her thinking changed, and it wasn't a date.

This is why I go with the 'holding your hand when you die' rule. Everything else is fluid.

I just remembered one encounter where we're feeding each other dinner, playing footsie under the table and she's telling me she loves me. Then, later, true to fluidity, 'you know we're just friends and not a couple, right?'

Enjoy your life man. You'll develop a sense of humor about this stuff.

July 19, 2012

I guess I fit in the naïve category.

If a male acquaintance whom I have zero attraction to asks me to do something, because I don’t see him in a sexual or romantic way, it’s hard for me to imagine him having these feeling for me, especially if I feel it’s clear we are an inappropriate match, so I’m likely not to realize he's asking me on date. Why would a man I've never flirted with or given any signs of attraction to ask me out? That's how my mind works.

It’s the same if a woman asked me to get lunch. There’s a chance she’s asking me on a date, but I would never think this (because I’m not attracted to women and I know I've never flirted with her), so I’d never assume she was trying to date me, though it's possible.

July 19, 2012

I think carhill's description is very true too and happens, though I don't think it's what happens in instances where a woman admits she didn't think it was a date before/on that first meet. People's thoughts ebb and flow, but I think those are two different social dynamics at play. BOTH can happen. What iris said is generally at play when someone truly doesn't recognize it was a date at any point; carhill's point goes to when someone may have, at one point, thought something may be a date, but their perspective changed, for whatever reason. We do color past events with present state of mind. Men do that too - it's human nature and applies to just more than Rs, but certainly happens.

July 19, 2012

Seriously, this is not a GENDER bashing thread at all.

But latey, it's been a shocker to me how some women, when a guy asks them out, "Hey, let's grab a bite to eat." or "Let's grab a drink Fri night."

For some reason, they seem to naively think that it's NOT a date by default.

I don't know what the deal is, but let's say if I had met women face to face, when I ask them out.....well...one time when I asked this woman out....her reaction was, "Hm, it sounds like a date."

And I'm like "Duh, of course!"

I actually had one woman agree to a date, then she called me back 15 mins later and asked me, "You don't think this is a date,do you?"

And I said, "Well, yeah, of course it is."

And she backed out.

That being said, why do women automatically assume it's NOT a date, while men assume that it IS a date?

Dude you blew this one by saying its a date! A lot of women now a days prefer say lets hang out casually instead of that traditional dating setup. This way it is less threatening to the woman and she don't have pressure to conform!

I do consider "hanging out" as dating. But I don't say it to them not to scare them off:)

July 19, 2012

OP, one suggestion is to have the mindset within yourself that every invitation to a woman to share your private company, meaning not as a part of a group, outside of a prior established and mutually agreed to friendship, is a 'date'. Worry not what the woman feels or what she thinks. Go with 'date'. If there isn't a meeting of the minds, at whatever point, accept that. Then erase her. Don't waffle on either, either the acceptance nor erasure. Swift and confident. Next.

July 19, 2012

I ALWAYS think it is a date

Anything that involves one on one activities is a date unless HE says otherwise.

Same here.

I don't keep around male friends, so if a guy is asking me to do something one on one I am assuming it's a date.

OP are these women that you have had social interaction before as just friends? I could see that causing confusion, if you have always been "just friends" and now suddenly are subtley asking her on a date. But if it's women you have just met or something, they are either clueless or just want some attention.

July 19, 2012

Dude you blew this one by saying its a date! A lot of women now a days prefer say lets hang out casually instead of that traditional dating setup. This way it is less threatening to the woman and she don't have pressure to conform!

I do consider "hanging out" as dating. But I don't say it to them not to scare them off:)

You haven't read all that I posted, go back and read what I've just posted.

July 19, 2012

I used to think the same, that it was always a date.

My last relationship taught me difference, I thought I was invited for a date, but my ex took it just as friends meeting. To be honest, this happened to me now a few more times.

So now I am pretty confused, is it a date or friends meeting?? How can I recognize it?

If a boy invites me out I always think it's a date. Am I wrong?

July 19, 2012

Dude you blew this one by saying its a date! A lot of women now a days prefer say lets hang out casually instead of that traditional dating setup. This way it is less threatening to the woman and she don't have pressure to conform! I do consider "hanging out" as dating. But I don't say it to them not to scare them off:)

Can't disagree with what this person said. Don't be like some guys who go full-on into thinking it's some antiquated idea of a date. That way of thinking is so old-fashioned (one of the things it took work and starting to date more, to get it out of my system.) This ain't the movies. Give her a low-pressure low-expectation fun time as opposed to being in "Date mode", talk with her about her, make her smile, treat her exceptionally and she will remember your time together alot better. Like miss_jaclynrae said, subconciously it is a date unless you express otherwise. It's even something you can joke about with her.

July 19, 2012

Can't disagree with what this person said. Don't be like some guys who go full-on into thinking it's some antiquated idea of a date. That way of thinking is so old-fashioned (one of the things it took work and starting to date more, to get it out of my system.) This ain't the movies. Give her a low-pressure low-expectation fun time as opposed to being in "Date mode", talk with her about her, make her smile, treat her exceptionally and she will remember your time together alot better. Like miss_jaclynrae said, subconciously it is a date unless you express otherwise. It's even something you can joke about with her.

Funny, getting differing opinions of calling it an actual date, "Would you like to go out on a date with me"

To the younger generation that says, "Let's hang out"

I bet anyone over 40 thinks of the "old-fashioned" way of doing things. LOL

The latter, well.....it might lead to disappointment if someone gets attached. I've seen it happen all the time.

July 19, 2012

Because women desperately want to believe men are interested in them for platonic reasons.

This video always cracked me up

July 19, 2012

It's women I have known on an aquaintence level for a while. I have a male friend that prefers the method of "Getting to know women in a group over a period of time to see if you'd like to date them"

Then he asks them out. I do the same thing pretty much.

For instance, at a Facebook invite, pool party, or a BBQ or Game night, these events start to become routine. Over time you see familiar faces, and perhaps there's one face you've taken a shine to, and started to hang with her more frequently at the events and talking to her for extended periods of time in a room corner or refreshment table.

Eventually, the guy will ask for her number, call her later and ask her out.

Same here.

I don't keep around male friends, so if a guy is asking me to do something one on one I am assuming it's a date.

OP are these women that you have had social interaction before as just friends? I could see that causing confusion, if you have always been "just friends" and now suddenly are subtley asking her on a date. But if it's women you have just met or something, they are either clueless or just want some attention.

July 19, 2012

I ALWAYS think it is a date

Anything that involves one on one activities is a date unless HE says otherwise.

Same here.

I don't keep around male friends, so if a guy is asking me to do something one on one I am assuming it's a date.

OP are these women that you have had social interaction before as just friends? I could see that causing confusion, if you have always been "just friends" and now suddenly are subtley asking her on a date. But if it's women you have just met or something, they are either clueless or just want some attention.

Awesome, you two know what's going on.

If a guy wants to do something with a girl and it's just the two of them, 99% of the time he believes it's a date. The only possible exceptions is that one of them is already in a relationship or they have been friends for a while, but even then the date possibility is still there.

July 19, 2012

The best thing to do is not ask out women who aren't giving any signal they want you to ask them out.

If you decide do this, make it clear you mean it's a date or it's likely she's thinking or hoping it's not.

July 19, 2012

If it's someone I've seen around at events and is thus 'safe and friendly' and I've never gotten a flirtatious or romantic vibe from them, including when they extend the invitation, I wouldn't necessarily think it was romantic or even that it was one-on-one, unless he said so. Things that would indicate a date would be things like: He wants to pick me up (if I don't know him well and there's no real reason), it's a particularly fancy or romantic place, or just the general vibe he gives out.

But you can't avoid clarity and then be upset when something is truly unclear!

If it's a cold-call, I agree, I'd know it was romantic intention, but if it was someone I'd seen around at several events, who had never flirted with me really, I'd have no reason to see them as seeking romance. No more so than a woman I don't know that well (who certainly could be a lesbian), as iris said in her example. At any rate, sometimes you can tell anyway, most of the time it's blatantly obvious, but the men who are consistently receiving the same confusion from different women should look to their own actions to see if there's any reason it demonstrates a lack of clarity. It may be a simple fix!

And iris is right that most women will give off signs if they're interested. Learning to read those helps a guy immensely.

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Women don't think it's a date by default?

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