What do you think about men keeping their profession or income private early on?

July 19, 2012

I used to come up with crazy things like Beer Tester or quality control for a porn company. I got older and realized that some people can play a role. The masters don't make their intentions obvious. I mention this on here when women talk about players but they think they know what to look for or don't believe a man will play the role. You will learn the masters of the game can delay gratification and use it as an advantage and achieve their goal. The best thing is to create a set of standards that carefully screens out because a person can be a great partner on paper but have one or two things that make them terrible.

July 19, 2012

If you're a male prostate

.......

July 19, 2012

Testing people by lying? What kind of foundation do you want to build at the beginning of a relationship, Kaylan?

I'm with Zengirl and the hot potatoes.

?

Um no. Test people by keeping them at an arms length. I wasnt telling people they should lie. I said they can be vague about details or keep it to themselves.

Regarding the whole doctor-physical therapist thing (which I was partly joking), Id prolly just say I work in the medical field, and just leave it at that.

Meh

As for testing, eh, seems like a bad way to start a caring, intimate R.

And going in with unrealistic expectations of how people work whilst wearing love blinders is a bad way to start things too. We all see how the world works. People earn trust. You just dont give it to everyone.

I'm afraid, dear Kaylan, that in your attempt to screen against the bad apples by testing and fibbing... you will also screen out the very best too.

You are jumping to alot of conclusions about women, and risk coming across as paranoid, insecure... and perhaps even dishonest to the kind of woman you most want to attract.

Jumping to conclusions? Oh no honey. I see how some women work, and how some women dont work. So Im merely trying to get rid of the crappy fruit. I wouldnt want to soil my pallet with them.

Edited July 19, 2012 by kaylan

July 19, 2012

?

Um no. Test people by keeping them at an arms length. I wasnt telling people they should lie. I said they can be vague about details or keep it to themselves.

Regarding the whole doctor-physical therapist thing (which I was partly joking), Id prolly just say I work in the medical field, and just leave it at that.

Meh

What would your response be if she asked what you did in the medical field?

Sincerely, that would be my response to yours. I'd want to keep the conversation going and in my experience, talking about people's jobs and their backgrounds are a good way of doing that. Your job is a huge part of your life and to not let a potential partner in on that, would seem a little remiss. There are limits, I agree, but "medical field" would be too vague for me, even during the first few conversations.

July 19, 2012

I don't know your social circle, but most women I know are not gold diggers. Furthermore, you can only keep your income or profession secret for a very short time. And if you do that you are basically lying or playing a game. Why not be yourself?

Would you date a woman that pretended to be dirt poor so you would not go after her money? How would that make you feel if you find out your GF is filthy rich, but pretends to be in welfare when she is with you because she does not trust your intentions or thinks you have little integrity?

I ask you to re read the post you quoted again.

I did not say most women are gold diggers, or that most women I know are gold diggers. I said moochers in relationships are more so women than they are men and that this is because men usually have the wealth and provider gender roles.

And actually, most people keep their income to themselves until the moving in phase...thats when their true finances come out into the open. Most people will share what they do for a living early on...but salary comes out in the open much later. Its not about "being yourself"...its about knowing how many people in the world work, and having folks earn your trust.

I dont lend everyone money and give the opportunity to prove themselves after I already granted them a favor. They have to earn my trust first, and then I will help them out in that regard. See my point?

If I dated a girl who early on put on a show of modest background, yet later showed me how rich she was, I wouldnt be bothered by it. Id understand that a lot of people are users in the world and that she wanted us to get to know one another first. And as we grew closer she felt she could open up to me. Itd be one thing if she was a little scared of my intentions cus she needs to get to know me. Its another thing if she flat out thinks I lack integrity right off the bat. We all my judgements based on initial impressions though, and then proceed to get to know the true person.

Dating is like that. Lets be real lol. The REAL person doesnt come out until later in a relationship in regards to a whole slew of things. People always put their best foot forward...so while you are getting to know them, you wont know the entirety of who they are until much later. Thats called getting to know someone and it isnt new. As long as the person gradually opens up, I see no biggie.

July 19, 2012

What would your response be if she asked what you did in the medical field?

Sincerely, that would be my response to yours. I'd want to keep the conversation going and in my experience, talking about people's jobs and their backgrounds are a good way of doing that. Your job is a huge part of your life and to not let a potential partner in on that, would seem a little remiss. There are limits, I agree, but "medical field" would be too vague for me, even during the first few conversations.

Lets say Im an internal medicine resident.

Id tell her I just finished interning and work at a hospital but that I dont like talking much about my work as I have much cooler interests. And if my income came up at all, Id mention the mountain of student loans, and how sometimes I wish I could drop everything and become a musician (still a dream of mine and something I may do one day.)

Hell, if I ended up dating her for a bit, Id ask her "what would you say if I told you I wanted to drop medicine for a few years and just play music?" And see what I get from her....because though Im not a doctor....music is a side plan of mine for the near future. Lord knows Im not looking forward to grad school and more debt.

July 19, 2012

Testing people by lying? What kind of foundation do you want to build at the beginning of a relationship, Kaylan?

I'm with Zengirl and the hot potatoes.

I agree. I understand the 'rationale' for downplaying things and maybe even hiding things in order to test the woman's mettle and sincerity, initially. Yet, in the end, I don't think the paranoid and deceptive means are justified by the end.

Sure, if you make a lot of money and some gold digger types latch onto you because of that, you're going to have to use your own powers of perception, as time wears on, to see that that's who she is, and to get rid of her accordingly. But do it; rely on your instinct and character judgment skills; at least then you're just being yourself and not being paranoid.

I'd rather date a guy who is just upfront about who he is and just watches me for potential gold digging motives (and I'd never know he was doing so because it would be stealthily done) than one who I found out assumed from the get-go that I might want him only for his money so he created this entire different persona, and/or outright lied. The latter just seems creepy. The paranoia would bug me more than anything because I don't want to date a guy who's all "who's after me for my money?" It says to me that he assumes the worst in women.

One of the biggest turn offs for me in a guy is paranoia, in any context. Not long ago (maybe 8 months ago now), I started talking to this guy on OkCupid who, when we were in the early stages of communicating, kept calling me on an "unknown" line (where no number came up on my caller I.D.) He was so scared that if he and I didn't end up hitting it off that I would keep calling him if I had his #. I ended up not meeting him because of that. I even told him, "Oh please. Don't flatter yourself. If you and I don't hit it off, we'd just not be speaking again. It's not like I'd keep bugging you to talk to me." I know he has no way of knowing that I'm not a stalker-girl (and I know some stalker-girls exist, so it's not completely wrong for men to have some concern). Point remains..the paranoia is just annoying.

If a guy is paranoid about certain things, I see him as unnecessarily paranoid in general.

July 19, 2012

Lets say Im an internal medicine resident.

Id tell her I just finished interning and work at a hospital but that I dont like talking much about my work as I have much cooler interests. And if my income came up at all, Id mention the mountain of student loans, and how sometimes I wish I could drop everything and become a musician (still a dream of mine and something I may do one day.)

Hell, if I ended up dating her for a bit, Id ask her "what would you say if I told you I wanted to drop medicine for a few years and just play music?" And see what I get from her....because though Im not a doctor....music is a side plan of mine for the near future. Lord knows Im not looking forward to grad school and more debt.

I studied physiology during my course at uni, so I'd probably dig deeper...

To be fair, none of what you said in the last two paragraphs would immediately raise red flags for me during the early stages of dating. Though I would probably be very curious why you would give up a globally mobile and 100% employment career for the life of a musician, which is potentially a lot more unstable. And making music vs. saving lives? Hmm.

July 19, 2012

You know, I had a woman flat out ask me how much I made? She was in this country , visiting her family from Moscow....so all I could think...."Green card marriage!" LOL

July 19, 2012

Take it from me and life experience.

In the majority, people with wealth don't show it. Intelligent, confident, friendly, thinking.

Often driving vehicles several years old.

No fancy watches. No huge houses.

There are others (not high net wealth) that do ok that show materialistic gatherings. They often have "bills" though.

I have been around a few true self-made millionaires.

They usually can figure out pretty quick someone phishing about money or gold digging. The calculating mind is how they become......millionaires!

July 19, 2012

As usual, the insecure men with low paying or low status jobs are the ones who worry most about gold diggers. I've got news for you. Men who are successful and well off don't hide that fact. They don't boast about it either, usually. If they do, it's a turn off. Being successful is part of who they are so why shouldn't they be proud? They worked hard. Most of those men don't care how much money a woman makes or what she does for a living. Witness many stories of uber rich men marrying cocktail waitresses, nurses or flight attendants.

Poorer men want someone who can help them pay the bills and I can't say I blame them. I suspect some of them might be gold diggers themselves. Some bitter men feel they were robbed by divorce lawyers and want to find a woman with money so they can recoup their losses.

A doctor who lies, saying he is a physical therapist is just as bad as a physical therapist saying he is a doctor.

Edited July 19, 2012 by FitChick

July 19, 2012

^Actually the well off men come here and to other sites to cry about their using gf or ex wife. Ive seen plenty of those threads. Some blindly revel in the attention gold diggers give, and others are constantly on guard.

This is an overall male concern. My best friend is only 25 and already makes close to 6 figures and easily into 6 figures with overtime....so hes def well off for our age group...and trust me, he worries about it too.

Why shame guys as broke or insecure for recognizing a dating reality? We see threads and here stories all the time. Maybe some dudes want real love?

July 19, 2012

Normally if someone (no matter who's asking, it doesn't have to be a date) asks me I just tell them what industry I work in. THEN if they want to know more in depth about what I do then I'll reveal. I don't feel a need to dodge the question or change the subject, it's just a red flag and I would feel the same way if a girl did that. If a girl judges me because she doesn't like my line of work, then she isn't for me because she doesn't like me for who I am. Someone like that isn't worth my time.

The only kind of girls I've met who needed a guy to validate himself to a girl about his profession were either gold-diggers or not that interested to begin with and used the profession thing to weed out if a guy was financially successful. This is the worst kind especially if it's on a first date. But if that's the case then good, because you just dodged a bullet.

Women that have been genuinely attracted to me were okay with taking turns paying to be honest (back to the issue of finances). I find it a bit of a red flag if a woman never pays for anything on any dates - for me it screams gold-digger or she's just a moocher. I've also talked to many women who were wary of men paying for them all the time because it felt like they were after something (or trying to buy their way into the girl's heart/sex).

July 19, 2012

.......

Carhill!!

July 19, 2012

Have you guys ever had someone actually ask you how much $ you make? I seriously can't even fathom someone asking that

Oh, I see the one example of the girl from Moscow, lol, but other than that...?

July 19, 2012

Have you guys ever had someone actually ask you how much $ you make? I seriously can't even fathom someone asking that

Oh yes.

[ten characters]

July 19, 2012

Lets say Im an internal medicine resident.

Id tell her I just finished interning and work at a hospital but that I dont like talking much about my work as I have much cooler interests. And if my income came up at all, Id mention the mountain of student loans, and how sometimes I wish I could drop everything and become a musician (still a dream of mine and something I may do one day.)

Hell, if I ended up dating her for a bit, Id ask her "what would you say if I told you I wanted to drop medicine for a few years and just play music?" And see what I get from her....because though Im not a doctor....music is a side plan of mine for the near future. Lord knows Im not looking forward to grad school and more debt.

Dude, let me tell you firsthand, the whole rich doctor thing is a bit of a myth. Residents get paid $40-50k. Even after you are finished, huge school loans mean you are not making much more the few years after residency. Add to that the fact that many of us are saving for engagement rings, weddings, houses, etc to try and make up for a decade of lost income and start up costs such as malpractice and equipment and we really are middle class. Most young doctors are driving old toyotas, hondas, and nissans. One friend just got a new sentra and my gf bought a corolla. Those that are driving BMWs out of school are the ones with rich (usually aslo doctor) parents.

The music thing may throw off anyone that has plans of settling down with you are they may want a partner with a stable income to have a future with rather than just gold diggers. I don't think that is unreasonable and something you may want to consider.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Sanman

July 19, 2012

I think income is too personal to discuss early. I would never DREAM to ask, and I would be caught off guard if a man asked me.

As for career/job wise. I find that to be a common topic to discuss. If a man was to not want to discuss what he does for work... It would be a red flag for me.

July 19, 2012

As for career/job wise. I find that to be a common topic to discuss. If a man was to not want to discuss what he does for work... It would be a red flag for me.

I think this is a read flag as well. Excluding special scenarios, what you do says a lot about who you are. So, not talking about it seems like you have something to hide.

July 19, 2012

I was at a Christmas party a few years back and this chinese man (about his sixties) was there (really cool guy but had a little much to drink) and he sat down next to me and said..

"You...you are a good looking guy, you're young and you need to enjoy your youth...go out and travel the world because when you're old and have the money like me it doesn't really matter because everything hurts and you don't really enjoy it, then it's not so fun anymore...too old, too old..."

So I do what I always do I ask about the M word..

Me: "So when do you think a man should get married?"

Him: "Ahhh hahahah...you need to make sure you find a good woman, not a woman that wants you for your money...when I met my wife I didn't have much and my cousin gave me the best advice and he was right...take a girl out in an old car..not a nice one, and take her out in that and don't spend lots of money or try to impress her...If she falls in love with you and still wants to be with you still then you know she really loves you...many women just want something from you..."

::takes another drink::

"And that's what I did and I've been married to her for 40 years! (or something like that) and she's the best thing that's ever happened to me, I'm a lucky man...but oh, never let family live with you, that's the other rule...no matter what....just you and your wife, that's it"

This is something I already followed and believed in to a degree, I always wanted a woman that was genuinely into me for who I am not what I have or the "potential" she sees in me giving her that little fantasy future...for me love has always been the priority and everything else was secondary. And I've lived my life without caring about titles, although I would have done things differently I do what I do in my personal life for me, not to appease other women or make myself look like a "total package".

For me that's a huge turn-off If I'm being screened in some way with some superficial list...if you want this life so bad then do it yourself, stop looking for men to create something for you or with you is my opinion.

So a lot of guys out there get an education, buy expensive things and cars to impress with, parade around with their titles, clothes and bank statements in their back pockets, and in big part to impress other people including women. I've known men who's agendas were purely to get laid as much as possible by accomplishing the most in their life that would impress them...sad really and funny enough, these people don't tend to find happiness there's still something missing...but maybe that's just apart of being human.

I like this perspective. If a woman wants something - she should be expected to provide it for herself. Same with men.

Asking about money early on - or may ever while dating - is in poor taste.

I don't like being asked. I don't feel the need to explain my position to anyone. If they can't see I'm happy with my life - I just don't care. People who judge are an immediate turn off for me. People who are happy - no matter what they do or don't have - keep me interested.

July 19, 2012

On the note of not telling what job they have - the only ones who didn't tell me - turned out to be married but portraying THEMSELF as single.

July 19, 2012

I loathe BMWs. BMW (last time I checked) put a whole bunch of legal roadblocks to avoid compensating the Jews whose slave-services they used during WW2. I can't stand the sight of a "Beamer."

This is the stupidest, most ignorant post I've ever read. Can you actually think for yourself or do you just regurgitate what the media feeds you?

P.S.: driving my bimmer all of a sudden has become even more enjoyable

July 19, 2012

Definitely one should not be disclosing income early on, and it would be a good idea to weed out people who have the lack of grace to ask.

But jobs are such a commonplace topic in any conversation. Even if you're talking with an acquaintance, it's more likely than not to come up in polite conversation. And hedging really doesn't bode well for the flow of conversation. Can you imagine? You're at a social event, someone talks to you for a couple of minutes and asks you, "So what do you do?" What do you say? "If I told you, I'd have to kill you"?

July 19, 2012

I for one see a flashy car and think: ugh what a waste.
I loathe BMWs. BMW (last time I checked) put a whole bunch of legal roadblocks to avoid compensating the Jews whose slave-services they used during WW2. I can't stand the sight of a "Beamer."

Yeah, read up on your non-AIPAC approved history, Jews were not the only ones used as slave-labour by the Nazi's ... they are the most vocal group though.

I actually went through 2 moochers/gold-diggers.

The only way you can avoid this kind of thing is to live below your means, save up [yes ... rent], drive an old car, don't spend on frivolous suff.

If she asks your job or career path, say what it is but don't go too much into detail.

Someone mentioned the girl from Moscow as 'gold-digger'.

Maybe she was, or maybe she wasn't.

In Russia it is normal for the girl to ask how much you make.

Some girls here in Eastern Europe also ask, and because times are tough, wages are down, living together will make you pretty fast aware of what the other has for a wage, way before marriage.

One way to deal with gold-diggers is to insist on a prenup, and not get married without one.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Radu

July 19, 2012

Dating is like that. Lets be real lol. The REAL person doesnt come out until later in a relationship in regards to a whole slew of things.

This is not really my experience, with people who are sincere and confident in themselves. I don't find they fake for the beginning of dating and then there's some point where the real them is 'revealed.' Sure, I'm getting to know them and thus my data is incomplete at times, but I fail to see how holding back the most basic of information - what you do with 1/3 of your day and what your ambitions for that part of your life are (I'm not talking about money, but about career) - helps complete that data on either side. I would assume anyone who was doing that either had MAJOR trust issues that most people don't have (no thanks), was more interested in control in a R than really developing one (no thanks), or had something bad to hide (no thanks). Any sort of evasion is a red flag.

That is not the same thing as living modestly, despite your income, if that's your thing. And certainly no one should ask you how much money you make.

Id tell her I just finished interning and work at a hospital but that I dont like talking much about my work as I have much cooler interests.

Well, I'd next a guy who avoided questions that way for sure.

And, honestly, I cannot imagine someone who made the investment of their time in medical school saying this truthfully and NOT caring about their work. Some people don't care about their work, but they usually aren't people who trained that long for it or chose a path that difficult.

At any rate, Sanman is right that young doctors wind up with peanuts in disposable income between low resident salaries and loans. There's stability down that path, but it comes awhile later.

As usual, the insecure men with low paying or low status jobs are the ones who worry most about gold diggers. I've got news for you. Men who are successful and well off don't hide that fact. They don't boast about it either, usually. If they do, it's a turn off. Being successful is part of who they are so why shouldn't they be proud? They worked hard. Most of those men don't care how much money a woman makes or what she does for a living. Witness many stories of uber rich men marrying cocktail waitresses, nurses or flight attendants.

Poorer men want someone who can help them pay the bills and I can't say I blame them. I suspect some of them might be gold diggers themselves. Some bitter men feel they were robbed by divorce lawyers and want to find a woman with money so they can recoup their losses.

A doctor who lies, saying he is a physical therapist is just as bad as a physical therapist saying he is a doctor.

Agree entirely with the last line, basically. There's just no excuse for lying. And yes, it really doesn't seem like actually successful men worry about this that much. They may want to assess the character of a person, but so should everyone, and not by lying!

I find the doctor example particularly bizarre, as I briefly dated an ER doc in his residency a few years back, and I remember him being on call sometimes (so couldn't drink and we had to drive separately) and even getting paged sometimes. During a residency, docs work SO many hours. I've seen this with friends as well. I don't see how a guy could explain that away while lying that he was a physical therapist. I'd never buy that a PT was getting paged with an emergency that was worth interrupting a date.

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What do you think about men keeping their profession or income private early on?

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