Author Jessie32 Posted July 3, 2012 Author Posted July 3, 2012 Is it possible he was embarrassed by his friend's suggestion of that crappy hotel? Has he boasted about how wonderful, successful, special they are? Perhaps he was being defensive. Since it's three months away, start saving money in a secret bank account for moving in case you need it. Even if you wind up going on this trip, you want to be prepared for any other antics he may pull in the future. My mother's generation use to call this "mad money." I dont think he was embarrassed. It just irked me a little that they are dictating where we stay.
2sure Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 He owes you an apology for the Lie, and for the hurt he has caused you - if you go on the trip or not. Should he not invite you. It's Over and he is drama queen. Should he reinstate his invitation, and you accept... A hotel upgrade of your choice is in order. 2
Titania22 Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Good for you, keeping quiet and giving him some space. I agree that you should let him bring it up first. How he progresses from here, is going to tell you even more about his personality. I also agree with them, that you should save some money and work out an exit strategy if it comes to that. There is nothing wrong with knowing the answer to "what if...?" ahead of time. It gives you personal power to not put up with manipulation. (Though not to throw in the partners face, more for your own secret knowing.) I am interested to see how this unfolds, so please keep posting update as things progressed.
Andy_K Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Sometimes in relationships you have to be able admit you're wrong even when you're right. Otherwise, if the two of you ever have differing views/recollections of events, things quickly escalate out of control. Remember, relationships aren't about 'winning' or 'being right'. I suggest you be the bigger person here and apologise first, ask what else you've done to make him feel that way, and promise to do something about it. If in turn, or at least fairly soon afterwards, he comes clean about not cancelling the tickets and apologises for trying to get under your skin, then you can make up and then have a rational conversation about how you'll both be different next time. If however, you still don't get an apology in return or a confession of lying, then it's time to make your exit from the relationship, and you can do so knowing full well you've made the right decision. Give everyone enough rope to hang themselves with. 1
6ft180natl Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Let me add: Id dump him if he went on the trip alone. The way you described all this, as well as you busting you but to host for him and his friends, it sure sounds like he wnats a girlfriend whos beneath him and "knows her place". I wouldnt have my gf cook and clean all by herself when hosting in OUR apartment....shed get tons of help. And I wouldnt shove my salary or gifts in her face. He definitely sounds like he thinks he has the upper hand because of the money he has and the place he thinks you have. Dont be the typical female throwback. He needs to respect you, help out around the house, and make you feel apreciated. And since he makes more than you, he needs to know you dont act like a douche bag after you do something nice with your money. You dont throw your spending in someones face after you chose to do something nice for them, be it rent, gifts, or otherwise. Isn't that the price she has to pay for having a BF that is bringing more to the table financially tho? I mean it seems like maybe he is taking care of her since she can't afford to leave right now so that cleaning and setting things up for his friends seems fair in light of that.
6ft180natl Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 He owes you an apology for the Lie, and for the hurt he has caused you - if you go on the trip or not. Should he not invite you. It's Over and he is drama queen. Should he reinstate his invitation, and you accept... A hotel upgrade of your choice is in order. Lol he now owes her a hotel upgrade on the trip that he was GIVING to her for free? What does she owe him for this trip in the first place then? I think we really don't know the details. Since the argument escalated it is likely that she said more later that upset him and it isn't just about the they are being "bossy" comment. I wouldn't be surprised if its about her not being grateful for the things he is providing her. I mean if you look at it from another angle he is giving her a gift then they argue over the gift and he says fine I wont give it to you then. Her reaction is well if he isn't going to give me my gift then I think I will have to end this relationship and move out........
Leigh 87 Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 (edited) I agree with this. It's hard being in a relationship with someone who significantly out-earns you. One of my exes had a multi-million dollar trust fund and earned an estimated $4-500K a year, and I always felt like I was an unequal, having to deal with things I otherwise would have out of some weird form of gratefulness. I think if your truly in love, the guy would help you out. My boyfriend has two houses in assets - given to him. He will be very well off. He said that if he remains in love with me, which he hopes and thinks will happen, he would not even think of leaving me or letting his money get in the way. I will make a normal sallary, and while we have the same income in cash, he will be rich one day and I think it is quiet sick, and not possible - to be in love, and to leave your " love", because your rich and their not. I can't see how money could tear you apart, if you really wanted to be together. I am naive and ignorant ont he matter to some degree, being 25 and not even in my career yet ( rather, I am studying for it as we speak) but come on - if you are that in love with someone, surely the oe who makes the most money would take care of the one who makes little money? I talked to a person on this website, and he got a car for his wide and said he enjoyed providing for her. Edited July 3, 2012 by Leigh 87
writergal Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 I think you need to apologize to your boyfriend because he basically paid for everything which you seem ungrateful for by insulting the hotel lodging before actually seeing it in person. Then you accuse him of lying about cancelling the plane tickets which shows you don't really respect him to begin with and that you have terrible communication skills when conflict arises between you two. It seems like a very petty argument to pick over something that is supposed to be a wonderful celebration. I think you're not seeing the bigger picture here: your boyfriend attending a friend's wedding as the best man and offering to take you on an all-expense paid trip with a few romantic days after the wedding.
KatZee Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 While I do appreciate your advice, the things you are saying he is, he isn't. What he did is not right but it doesn't sum him up as a person. I understand you may have been in a relationship that was not a good one, but every relationship is different. He may have some good aspects, but what I've said about him is the truth. This is from the information you've provided, and from an outsiders perspective. You're sort of looking through a clouded lens since you're in love with him. A lot of other people on this thread have said the exact same thing. It has nothing to do with who I have or haven't been with or how those people have treated me. This guy does not treat you right and I'm not the only one who sees it. Pages 4-6 give some really good advice and I'm not sure why you continue to tolerate it.
TaraMaiden Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 I hate to say it, but culturally (notwithstanding his upbringing in the UK) he still retains some Japanese traits. We used to live close to a Japanese family, and the daughter was born in the UK... I made friends with her, and had her over to my place a few times...but she wore white cotton gloves whenever she came round to our house. We initially thought it was a skin problem. We subsequently discovered that the Japanese consider it an insult to you if they 'touch' your things uninvited. So, she wore gloves to never directly 'touch' anything. we had to invite her to remove them. And remember, she was born in the UK.... I was never invited back to her home. But As a reciprocal gesture, I was taken out to eat, a couple of times. Back to your BF: In most circles, lying in Japan, is no big deal, because humiliation is a big thing with them. His lying was designed to humiliate you, and make you feel guilty for having given the opinion you did. His parents are probably 1st generation Japanese, and therefore the culture may well be extremely ingrained. Losing face is a worse 'crime' than lying. Remember as another example, that the Japanese do not like using the word 'no'. They will prevaricate and say everything but, and frustratingly skirt around the issues until you finally get it: "It's not going to happen". He lied and I think this to him will be perfectly ok. He will in all probability tell you that he re-bought the tickets, and had to pay a supplementary fee. He won't care about telling you this, not because he's being mean, cruel and deceitful. He's putting you in your place to make you feel remorseful and contrite for having 'spoken out of turn'. I may be completely and totally off-bat with all of the above, so feel free to totally ignore what I have written. If I am incorrect or mistaken, I apologise, but in my experience, this is what I have found about the Japanese.
Feelsgoodman Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Interesting thread, but some people need to step back and realize that they are only hearing one side of the story. And I have no doubt that there are important parts missing from OP's account of events. A guy who is normally very generous would not suddenly accuse his girlfriend of being high maintenance unless he had a good reason for doing so. Something doesn't add up here.
Feelsgoodman Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 I hate to say it, but culturally (notwithstanding his upbringing in the UK) he still retains some Japanese traits. We used to live close to a Japanese family, and the daughter was born in the UK... I made friends with her, and had her over to my place a few times...but she wore white cotton gloves whenever she came round to our house. We initially thought it was a skin problem. We subsequently discovered that the Japanese consider it an insult to you if they 'touch' your things uninvited. So, she wore gloves to never directly 'touch' anything. we had to invite her to remove them. And remember, she was born in the UK.... I was never invited back to her home. But As a reciprocal gesture, I was taken out to eat, a couple of times. Back to your BF: In most circles, lying in Japan, is no big deal, because humiliation is a big thing with them. His lying was designed to humiliate you, and make you feel guilty for having given the opinion you did. His parents are probably 1st generation Japanese, and therefore the culture may well be extremely ingrained. Losing face is a worse 'crime' than lying. Remember as another example, that the Japanese do not like using the word 'no'. They will prevaricate and say everything but, and frustratingly skirt around the issues until you finally get it: "It's not going to happen". He lied and I think this to him will be perfectly ok. He will in all probability tell you that he re-bought the tickets, and had to pay a supplementary fee. He won't care about telling you this, not because he's being mean, cruel and deceitful. He's putting you in your place to make you feel remorseful and contrite for having 'spoken out of turn'. I may be completely and totally off-bat with all of the above, so feel free to totally ignore what I have written. If I am incorrect or mistaken, I apologise, but in my experience, this is what I have found about the Japanese. You are not stereotyping people of Japanese culture, at all...
blueskyday Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Great advice from everyone else here...I will only add that you need to simplify things in your mind. On the face of it, he is lying, being manipulative, making you feel punished, etc...NOT GOOD! I've been in a few abusive relationships. This is what they look like. And, of course, the guy isn't ALL bad. He has many wonderful qualities. That's why it's hard for you. That's why you make excuses....but don't. Your empathy is what he wants so he can blame you for everything. He will turn it around and it will be all on YOU....This is another red flag. This is a "one up" kind of relationship, with him one up on the power pole. Don't stand for it. You had every right to voice your opinion. He has no right to act like this. You need to tell him calmly that you won't tolerate this kind of treatment. Then walk out of the room. See what he does to fix it....if anything...and if he does, then don't tolerate less than respectful, honest, mutual behavior...
serial muse Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Something doesn't add up here. I agree...I've been confused from the start about this extreme reaction on his part. Jessie, I don't think your BF should get a pass for being manipulative and lying about the tickets, by any means - that's still incredibly crappy behavior and I hope you'll hold him to task for that. But I feel like maybe there's more to this story too...this sort of thing doesn't generally happen out of the blue. Any update on what happened after he came home? Did you guys discuss this?
zengirl Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 I missed that he was Japanese. fwiw, background on my cultural generalizing: I'm halfsies, and very close to my American-Japanese family and much of my family in Japan (lived there for a bit and visited several times). Also speak fluent Japanese. In most circles, lying in Japan, is no big deal, because humiliation is a big thing with them. Well, depends on what lying is. Lying to 'save face' or help someone else 'save face' is simply not considered lying. This is true in Western society to a degree. You DON'T necessarily tell your Mom she looks fat in those jeans, right? You say it differently. It is just more extreme in Japanese culture but that doesn't really apply to the lies given by her BF, IMO. He did not initially lie to save face, though it DOES explain why he got so upset when she criticized his friends to a degree. Culturally, that kind of statement is much more loaded to the Japanese, and she would be 'expected' to allow him to save face in the whole situation by supporting him, rather than by issuing her honest opinion. Communication just differs a bit. His lying was designed to humiliate you, and make you feel guilty for having given the opinion you did. Yes, but lying to humiliate others is not really a cultural trait of the Japanese. Shaming is certainly very common, but lying to do so . . . not really. That seems a more Western influence to me. Losing face is a worse 'crime' than lying. True, but he loses more face by lying in this case. The notion of losing $500 fictionally by cancelling due to emotions is a loss of face, so is the notion of re-booking her later. . . I don't really see how he 'saved face' to be honest. Remember as another example, that the Japanese do not like using the word 'no'. They will prevaricate and say everything but, and frustratingly skirt around the issues until you finally get it: "It's not going to happen". Very true, to Westerners. Japanese people absolutely say "No" IMO, but not necessarily in ways that Westerners find to mean "No." Westerners are taught to push things FAR beyond what a Japanese person would do or find acceptable. I don't see anything inherently Japanese in her BF's lying, though I do see some components of it in his emotions and intensity around the situation. Japanese people seem reserved on the surface, but the culture is very dramatic in many ways. But the 'means' of shaming seems definitively Western to me.
blueskyday Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Really, though, he is a jerk. Plain and simple. I don't like people who aren't kind. I don't date guys like this anymore. Once they show their self-centered controlling side, I'm out. I don't care how wonderful he's been other times. Bad behavior cancels out the good. Would a guy put up with a woman who is "wonderful" and attentive, but she cheats every once in a while? No way. No way... Don't settle with this guy. You aren't his subordinate...Find a guy who cherishes you and will only hurt you accidentally, and will repair it. Someone who hurts you intentionally is a no go! 1
TaraMaiden Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 I missed that he was Japanese. fwiw, background on my cultural generalizing: I'm halfsies, and very close to my American-Japanese family and much of my family in Japan (lived there for a bit and visited several times). Also speak fluent Japanese. ...... I don't see anything inherently Japanese in her BF's lying, though I do see some components of it in his emotions and intensity around the situation. Japanese people seem reserved on the surface, but the culture is very dramatic in many ways. But the 'means' of shaming seems definitively Western to me. Thank you for your input, and for correcting any misconceptions, that's good of you.
zengirl Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Thank you for your input, and for correcting any misconceptions, that's good of you. I'm not saying you couldn't be right btw. I just didn't see it personally. I do think it was a good point to bring face-saving into the discussion -- that has a lot to do with Japanese culture and the Japanese version of 'machismo.' At any rate, whatever nationality, her BF was behaving like a jerk. 1
TaraMaiden Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 True dat. Lying in that way is manipulating. I'd like to know what he was trying to achieve by it... My question to him, when he finally admits to it, would be to ask him "What the hell were you thinking - ?!"
dreamingoftigers Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Its three months away. I don't think I can wait that long and I don't have the finances to leave anytime soon. Thats jumping the gun a bit anyway. This is what underlines it for me. Why are you in a relationship/living with someone when you cannot afford tone on your own or move if you need to? This places you in a ridiculously vulnerable position. I would get out and sort things out with myself ASAP.
FitChick Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 I wonder what people would tell OP if she had paid for her own ticket and BF said he was planning to have his friends uninvite her and/or he wasn't going himself. 1
TaraMaiden Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 My advice would be the same. other than slapping him with a wet baguette.
Christine52 Posted July 3, 2012 Posted July 3, 2012 Some guys can be really protective over their friends, and saying anything bad about them can really set them off - My ex was like this, he cared about his friends more than anything, so if I had a miscommunication with one of them, I took it up with them directly and didn't involve my bf, as it would only aggravate the situation. I think there are two ways to look at this situation: 1. You may have been slightly immature to say his friends were being bossy, and maybe you should've been more tactful and suggest a compromise - stay at the middle of nowhere hotel for the wedding, then once it's over, move to a hostel near the city. 2. You guys need to work on your communication styles. There are certain techniques that every couple should learn. This will help diffuse a lot of potentially bad fights, and save you a lot of heartbreak later. Many married couples would agree that couples therapy/counselling is something even the most healthy relationships need just to stay maintained. 1
Author Jessie32 Posted July 3, 2012 Author Posted July 3, 2012 This is what underlines it for me. Why are you in a relationship/living with someone when you cannot afford tone on your own or move if you need to? This places you in a ridiculously vulnerable position. I would get out and sort things out with myself ASAP.[/QUOT I dont make alot of money thats why. I just got back to working full time after being laid off and out of work for 2 months. I pay part of our rent, utilities and living expenses. As well as my own expenses and car loan.
Titania22 Posted July 4, 2012 Posted July 4, 2012 I wonder what people would tell OP if she had paid for her own ticket and BF said he was planning to have his friends uninvite her and/or he wasn't going himself. I would say she should have a nice holiday without him.
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