What exactly do YOU women do on dates?

[Sanman]

Seems more like your typing error as you stated 'Should a man cheat on a woman that is paying for him, I would feel the same way' not 'A girl paying for a guy that sleeps around is the same thing and I do feel bad for that person'.

 

Stating what courting behavior and implying what is and isn't worth courting suggests inventing it's definition. I highly doubt courting is all about paying in hopes she bestows what she doesn't to other guys as it suggets the impression that most gals haven't bestowed sex upon other guys.

 

'Why pay a gal who isn't offering more if you pay for her than if you don't' is quite different from 'why pay a gal for something others get for free'. The former question implies you get the same thing whether you pay or not while the latter question implies when you pay you get the same thing others get for free. I thought your point was the guy is paying for a gal others had sex with for free not he's paying for a gal who is offering him sex for free.

 

Bit curious as for you whether who is and isn't worth being a courter is based on sexual behavior as well. More curious as to where is the courted gal's assurance that the guy won't sleep with another gal since concern of his behavior is less legitimate if she's not paying for him and if she pays for herself they're not courting.

 

Perhaps it's best suited to try communication or become exclusive if you want assurance a gal won't sleep with another guy since you're not exlcusive.

 

 

Alright, call it my typing error.

 

As for the definition of courting behavior, prior to the 1920's that is exactly what is was. Prior to the 1960's and the sexual revolution, a person could still assume that courtship led to marriage and the sexual benefits associated with that as pre-marital sex was a cultural taboo. It has really only been in the past 50 years that this has not been true. However, with the dwindling of benefits related to courting behavior (marriage, sex, exclusivity, or really any expectation), there really seems to be no point to paying to date a woman.

 

Now, I am simply saying I see no point in paying to do this without any benefit. I have split the costs with most of the women I date. There is even a female poster here that claims to pay for the men she dates. Now, if a woman is having sex with other men for free, my point is why pay for the same privilege. This is especially true because, in all likelihood, you too can get it for free.

[Sanman]

If a man has double standards about his sexual behavior, it doesn't matter to me how much money he sends my way.

 

Paying for the date wouldn't make the guy 'relationship material'. The fact that he decides to pay for dates doesn't make him a 'prize'.

 

His personal integrity is the only thing that does. And that includes his ability to assume responsibility for his own sexuality... not expect women to do it for him.

 

 

 

Um... I've always paid my share, or attempted to.

 

I don't tie sex to date paying. Never have.

 

Paying for someone is a form of investment in a relationship. If a woman wants to have the expectation that a man should not see others, she should find a way to invest in the relationship and carry some of the same expectations of the men she dates. However, not investing in the relationship and have the same expectation is not fair, is it?

[RedRobin]

Paying for someone is a form of investment in a relationship.

 

Not to me it isn't. To me the time spent is a bigger investment than $$. Always has been.

 

If a woman wants to have the expectation that a man should not see others, she should find a way to invest in the relationship and carry some of the same expectations of the men she dates. However, not investing in the relationship and have the same expectation is not fair, is it?

 

I think both people have the right to expect each other not see others if they are seeking to establish intimacy and trust.

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with who is paying.

 

If the guy is going to feel resentful for paying under any circumstances, he should ask her to split the bill. Easy.

[udolipixie]

Alright, call it my typing error.

 

As for the definition of courting behavior, prior to the 1920's that is exactly what is was. Prior to the 1960's and the sexual revolution, a person could still assume that courtship led to marriage and the sexual benefits associated with that as pre-marital sex was a cultural taboo. It has really only been in the past 50 years that this has not been true. However, with the dwindling of benefits related to courting behavior (marriage, sex, exclusivity, or really any expectation), there really seems to be no point to paying to date a woman.

 

Now, I am simply saying I see no point in paying to do this without any benefit. I have split the costs with most of the women I date. There is even a female poster here that claims to pay for the men she dates. Now, if a woman is having sex with other men for free, my point is why pay for the same privilege. This is especially true because, in all likelihood, you too can get it for free.

It was a typing error though nice on admitting that your definition isn't what courting behavior is all about rather what courting behavior was all about in a certain time period.

 

In my opinion the dwindling of benefits related to courting behavior is due to the benefits coming from mutual agreement rather than financial transacation. Perhaps rather than consider paying for the benefits a person could try communicating what they want and see if the other person is in sync. Similar to rather than a guy pay for a date and demand sex from the gal afterwards he'd likely be better suited to be upfront about what he wants.

 

As for your point of why pay for sex when she has sex with other guys for free perhaps some guys don't think sex is the only privilege she has to offer. Likely she's not offering the other guys emotional bonding, emotional intimacy, companionship, sex, and long-term possibility. Understandable if the notion of gals offering more tha sex is hard for you to grasp considering what seems to be your he's the buyer she's the commodity model since he's financing she should have appropriate sexual behavior.

[RedRobin]

neither has that 'right'

 

Correct. If your goal is to avoid intimacy and building trust, then by all means... see as many people simultaneously as your schedule allows.

[NYC-BigKat]

Mmm... been sitting here reading a lot keyboard warrior princesses telling men the A-Z's on what men need to do, what they are doing wrong, and why.

 

So what exactly do YOU women do on dates, other then show up? I'm just trying to see what contributions to the dating enviornment you bring.

 

The main ones from reading here seem to be a)getting ready. Don't really get how that is female specific, as if men don't get ready (gas, reservations, planning, car maintance, personal maintance, etc) but sure... if you want to list it I won't complain.

 

Another is b)putting up with unwanted advances. That has caused me much joy in laughter so far. Women's contributions and responsibilities to dating is putting up with men not doing what they want them to do. haha. *sniff* Women have it soo hard in the datig world because ugh... they get so much attention.

 

MMM.... my favorite is c)women do all the work in a marriage. So somehow, I haven't been able to bridge that leap yet, somehow every guy must cater to every women in dating because one of them, at some point in time in the future, will possibly be his wife.

 

Personally, I don't do the dating thing. I also don't really get how guys go on all these dates first, with hopes of getting laid after following a bunch of rules. Seems backwards to me, but whatever. Date the women you have already had sex with seems more logical, otherwise your vision is clouded.

 

So let's have it you wonderful women, what is the list of female specific things you bring to the dating game?

 

Um...this might be true about men doing more work than the women and its not fair . I haven't been on a date in so long I dont remember what happened on the date but am sure I did alot of work to keep her into me or date over right on spot, yup.

[Sanman]

Not to me it isn't. To me the time spent is a bigger investment than $$. Always has been.

 

I think both people have the right to expect each other not see others if they are seeking to establish intimacy and trust.

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with who is paying.

 

If the guy is going to feel resentful for paying under any circumstances, he should ask her to split the bill. Easy.

 

Ah, but men are spending time as well. There is time planning the date, picking her up/dropping her off, and then time on the date. In addition to all that, there is the money. The investment is still uneven. I do split the bill. My point was about what I would require if I were paying for the date, as many men do consistently.

[Sanman]

It was a typing error though nice on admitting that your definition isn't what courting behavior is all about rather what courting behavior was all about in a certain time period.

 

As for your point of why pay for sex when she has sex with other guys for free perhaps some guys don't think sex is the only privilege she has to offer. Likely she's not offering the other guys emotional bonding, emotional intimacy, companionship, sex, and long-term possibility. Understandable if the notion of gals offering more tha sex is hard for you to grasp considering what seems to be your he's the buyer she's the commodity model since he's financing she should have appropriate sexual behavior.

 

I don't disagree about being upfront with the other person. In fact, I encourage it. I could let her know that I am not interested in paying for the whole date and she could let me know that I am one of X number of men she is dating/ f*cking and that is why she is doing just enough to keep me around for a while. Then, I could leave and save my time and money.

 

The reason I brought up the historical version of courting is because that is when this men paying for dates originated. Now, such behavior is truly as outdated as the rest of that courting system, yet the tradition remains.

 

The thing is that these women are not withholding emotional intimacy, companionship, etc from friends. In fact, I go out with them to dinner and we split the check. I have a more intimate relationship with them than some of their partners as I have known them for years. Really, there are very few things that can be offered by these women to their partners that has not been offered to us as friends. Long-term possibilities? Sure, but I would not necessarily want that with them. My point is that increasingly, there are no differences between the fwb and the bf other than the seriousness of the relationship.

[udolipixie]

I don't disagree about being upfront with the other person. In fact, I encourage it. I could let her know that I am not interested in paying for the whole date and she could let me know that I am one of X number of men she is dating/ f*cking and that is why she is doing just enough to keep me around for a while. Then, I could leave and save my time and money.

 

The reason I brought up the historical version of courting is because that is when this men paying for dates originated. Now, such behavior is truly as outdated as the rest of that courting system, yet the tradition remains.

 

The thing is that these women are not withholding emotional intimacy, companionship, etc from friends. In fact, I go out with them to dinner and we split the check. I have a more intimate relationship with them than some of their partners as I have known them for years. Really, there are very few things that can be offered by these women to their partners that has not been offered to us as friends. Long-term possibilities? Sure, but I would not necessarily want that with them. My point is that increasingly, there are no differences between the fwb and the bf other than the seriousness of the relationship.

Quite unsure how a gal multidating or having sex with other guys when not exclusive or in relationship with a guy she's dating equates to her doing just enough to keep him around for a while.

 

The tradition remaining doesn't equate to stating that is what courting is all about it does equate to that is what courting used to be about or that is what courting was all about in a certain time period.

 

I thought the point was 'why am I paying for sex when she gives it to others for free'. Others aren't limited to her friends so again likely she is withholding emotional intimacy and companionship from some guys she has sex with. Seems your point is more 'why am I paying for sex when she gives it to her friends for free'.

 

I agree there's no difference between the fwb and bf other than seriousness of the relationship as I hold the similar view of there's no difference between the fwb and gf other than the title. In my opinion a gf is a placeholder considering how many guys aren't up for committment beyond sex with one gal for some time and don't think of long-term potential in a partner as the list is usually pretty, pleasant, and put outs for me.

[seachangeoflove]

 

Now, I am simply saying I see no point in paying to do this without any benefit. I have split the costs with most of the women I date. There is even a female poster here that claims to pay for the men she dates. Now, if a woman is having sex with other men for free, my point is why pay for the same privilege. This is especially true because, in all likelihood, you too can get it for free.

 

 

the point you don't seem to get.... "having sex with other men for free" and how do you even know this anyway? Im really curious, but do you ask before the bill comes? That's gotta bea great first date ice breaker. lol!

 

she's having sex with them because she wants to, nothingt o do with the guy paid. Even if you pay, if she don't want to bang you, SHES NOT GOING TO.

 

 

 

I've had guys pay for me on dates and NOT had sex with them.

 

I've paid for guys and then taken them home and given them the best blow job they've ever had.

 

money, does not buy love. Just sex. But if that's all you want, just get a hooker and be done with it.

 

it's not a business transaction..... unless you're dating a girl who's only after your money anyway.

 

 

paying for a date is not paying for the right to **** her...

 

 

I could explain it more in depth but you're not going to get it anyway.

 

and yes, you probably could get it for free, if you weren't such a ....

 

I will say, either your gf is using you for your future bankroll or I feel really, really bad for her.

 

Your idea of sex, money, dating etc. is very transactional and kind of pathetic.

Edited June 29, 2012 by seachangeoflove

[seachangeoflove]

Ah, but men are spending time as well. There is time planning the date, picking her up/dropping her off, and then time on the date. In addition to all that, there is the money. The investment is still uneven. I do split the bill. My point was about what I would require if I were paying for the date, as many men do consistently.

 

 

 

 

planning, picking up and paying? most men these days do none of that.

 

in fact, out of the three? Of my most recent dates the one the men seem to want to do most is pay!!! No one wants to plan or drive!

 

which is why I find this thread hysterical, it's like some alternate reality!

[Sanman]

the point you don't seem to get.... "having sex with other men for free" and how do you even know this anyway? Im really curious, but do you ask before the bill comes? That's gotta bea great first date ice breaker. lol!

 

she's having sex with them because she wants to, nothingt o do with the guy paid. Even if you pay, if she don't want to bang you, SHES NOT GOING TO.

 

I've had guys pay for me on dates and NOT had sex with them.

 

I've paid for guys and then taken them home and given them the best blow job they've ever had.

 

paying for a date is not paying for the right to **** her...

 

I will say, either your gf is using you for your future bankroll or I feel really, really bad for her.

 

Your idea of sex, money, dating etc. is very transactional and kind of pathetic.

 

 

The thing you don't get is that I am completely in agreement with you. In fact, you made my point for me. You are correct that paying for a date does not mean sex or exclusivity or really anything. Hence, I suggest men not to pay for dates.

 

Why pay for women when, in your words, you will pay for the guy and give him a great bj? Paying will not change a woman's mind, so save your money guys. Find a woman who is willing to split the check or pay for you and sex you.

 

Nice of you to feel bad for my gf, but she does not need my bank roll. She is a doctor as well. The fact is that she agrees with me. We have split dating costs from the beginning and she does not believe that men need to be the only ones to spend on dates. She sees us as equals, as do I. In fact, she does not understand why women get fancy engagement rings and men get nothing. She wants to buy me something of similar value as well when we get engaged. One of the many reasons I love her.

 

To the OP, the answer simply seems to be don't to any of the things you listed as it won't change your odds anyway. Just be fun, get to know the girl, and make your move. If she likes you, you won't have to bend over backward to treat her nice.

[Sanman]

planning, picking up and paying? most men these days do none of that.

 

in fact, out of the three? Of my most recent dates the one the men seem to want to do most is pay!!! No one wants to plan or drive!

 

which is why I find this thread hysterical, it's like some alternate reality!

 

I used to do all three of those things when I was younger and more naive. Then, I realized that none of that stuff had any impact on my luck with women, so I stopped most of it. The most I might do now is plan an early date.

 

I do enjoy the fact that the women on this thread are telling me about love. I am not paying for your dinner because I am in love with you after knowing you for a week. If I only paid for the women I loved, I would have had to pay for two, maybe three, women tops. An early date is largely a transactional cost as you have no idea how you feel about them or how they feel about you. In order to give out of love, you need to know the person well enough to love them.

[udolipixie]

I do enjoy the fact that the women on this thread are telling me about love. I am not paying for your

 

Where and when have gals on this thread been telling you about love much less paying for her out of love rather than a guy paying for a gal doesn't mean sexual exclusivity from her, guaranteed sex from her, or the double standard of his sexual behavior is less legitimate concern?

Edited June 29, 2012 by udolipixie

[It's Just Me]

Holy hell... I'm afraid to add to the mix, but here goes...

 

1. On a request for a first meet through online dating, my suggestion was always to go out for ice cream and take a walk. No meals, no stupid coffee, no big spend. Let's be practical, but enjoy the sights for an hour or so, and get to know each other for a bit. I live near a lake, so that was a no-brainer.

2. 80% of those firsts never made it to a second, for various reasons. I didn't like him; he didn't like me... whatever. Point is... no big spend.

3. Corollary to the first point: if he invited me to dinner, and insisted on dinner after I suggested some ice cream, I would expect him to pay - with no strings attached.

4. Second corollary to the third point: If the dinner did not go well (oy, I could tell you stories), or even if it did, I would offer to pay for my half. I paid for A LOT of halves.

5. My last salvo at the first meet/date thing was with my current boyfriend. I wanted to be original. He wanted to do dinner. I suggested we meet at the lake, and bring our favourite portable appetizers. I brought wine. We brought our own camp chairs, and chatted and ate while the sun went down and the moon came up on the lake. We are both outdoorsy people, so it was fun. When it was done, and after we agreed that we had both had a great time, he insisted on a second date at a very, very posh restaurant in town. He wanted to treat me to a fancy, traditional dinner-type date. When I resisted and asked why that was necessary, he said, "Because now I know that it will be worth it to spend that kind of money on you. You're not just in this to get free food!" (LOL). That was 10 months ago, and we plan to redo that first date on our first anniversary in August.

[Sanman]

Where and when have gals on this thread been telling you about love much less paying for her out of love rather than a guy paying for a gal doesn't mean sexual exclusivity from her, guaranteed sex from her, or the double standard of his sexual behavior is less legitimate concern?

 

 

money, does not buy love. Just sex. But if that's all you want, just get a hooker and be done with it.

 

it's not a business transaction..... unless you're dating a girl who's only after your money anyway.

 

 

The bolded is your reference to love. I never said that money bought you sex anyway. I said that if I were going to pay for the girl, I would want her to be exclusively dating me and I would not pay for one that is prone to sleeping around because I don't the point in that. Getting an fwb relationship with such a girl seems like a much better plan. That said, except for that special rare person, I don't see why to people cannot go out, split costs, and split the other burdens of dating until such a time when something develops. Hence, I do not like to pay on initial dates and like to make dates a collaborative decision.

[Sanman]

Holy hell... I'm afraid to add to the mix, but here goes...

 

1. On a request for a first meet through online dating, my suggestion was always to go out for ice cream and take a walk. No meals, no stupid coffee, no big spend. Let's be practical, but enjoy the sights for an hour or so, and get to know each other for a bit. I live near a lake, so that was a no-brainer.

2. 80% of those firsts never made it to a second, for various reasons. I didn't like him; he didn't like me... whatever. Point is... no big spend.

3. Corollary to the first point: if he invited me to dinner, and insisted on dinner after I suggested some ice cream, I would expect him to pay - with no strings attached.

4. Second corollary to the third point: If the dinner did not go well (oy, I could tell you stories), or even if it did, I would offer to pay for my half. I paid for A LOT of halves.

5. My last salvo at the first meet/date thing was with my current boyfriend. I wanted to be original. He wanted to do dinner. I suggested we meet at the lake, and bring our favourite portable appetizers. I brought wine. We brought our own camp chairs, and chatted and ate while the sun went down and the moon came up on the lake. We are both outdoorsy people, so it was fun. When it was done, and after we agreed that we had both had a great time, he insisted on a second date at a very, very posh restaurant in town. He wanted to treat me to a fancy, traditional dinner-type date. When I resisted and asked why that was necessary, he said, "Because now I know that it will be worth it to spend that kind of money on you. You're not just in this to get free food!" (LOL). That was 10 months ago, and we plan to redo that first date on our first anniversary in August.

 

Paying for your half, helping plan the date, and keeping things low cost are all much appreciated (by me at least).

[udolipixie]

The bolded is your reference to love.

The bolded is a gal not gals on this thread telling you about love as you previously stated unless you equate one gal to speak for other gals. (?)

 

I know that reference however you stating that you enjoy the fact women in this thread are telling you about love implied to me that multiple gals were telling you about love rather than one sentence from one gal. Rather than the general view I got of multiple gals stating a guy paying for a gal doesn't mean he gets sexual exclusivity or guaranteed sex from her nor supports the double standard of his sexual behavior being a less legitimate concern.

[MooBear]

Well that had to be one of the most entertaining reads I have had on here. I am also pretty certain that OP is just trolling but what the hey, I'm always happy to add in to a debate.

 

I have never come across men like this in the "real world" - or if I did, I didn't realise! Does it really matter who brings what to a date? Isn't the whole point of a date to spend some time getting to know someone and enjoying each others company? The way some of you men talk, it's as if you think a woman should bow at your feet because you deigned to buy her a drink. And then, if said woman happens to have another date with someone else the next night (because she wants to meet new people) and if she happens to have sex with this other guy, you feel cheated? Seriously? I always thought that a first date was an intro, not a contract.

When did paying for a woman become such a big deal? I never complained if I paid for a meal and didn't get an hour of oral sex from it. I've always run with this when it comes to a first date: they who invites, pays. I've asked guys out and paid for them, and vice versa. It seems pretty simple to me. And hey - if that guy wants to then go and have sex with someone, good luck to him. I don't have any claims on him. I have generally found that after a first date, you just kinda know if it's going to go anywhere. I've never had the "talk" with someone I dated because we didn't need to. But, I digress.

 

What do us women actually do on a date... well, I typically have a glass of wine to relax because I'm nervous, hoping the guy will like me. We converse about the intro stuff like job, friends, hobbies. I'll throw a few jokes out there to make him laugh. Find out what he's interested in and talk about that, find our common interests. (at no point during this am I trying to assess his net worth or where he went to school or whether he'll buy me a present from Tiffanys). Eat a meal, keep chatting. By this point, if I do like him, I'll usually tell him that I think he's great and I'm having a good time. If I am not into it, I will wait until we have finished before I say so, and will also pay my half because I think that's polite. And then in both scenarios, we part ways for the evening.

 

Now as for the "princesses" comment, that right there explains why your dates are the way they are. You are clearly going for the girls that have big cleavage, fake tan and duck face in their profile pic. The girls that look like they are one big credit card bill away from shimmying on a pole. And if you want a girl like that, then yeah - its going to cost you. They want to be pampered and looked after and just sit there and be pretty. And why not? Plenty of guys out there happy to splash the cash to get a beautiful girl in their bed. Your problem seems to be that you think you are owed something...and women don't think from their pants as much as men so it doesn't really work. Perhaps if you tried dating a normal, possibly even a bit plain girl, you would see how fun dates can be. I imagine it would be quite tedious dating when you approach it like a negotiation - you'll pay for dinner if she promises not to sleep with anybody during the 72 hour cooling off period after said date (and a BJ wouldn't be too much to ask, surely)

 

I am grateful there are guys like you out there though because it makes it that much easier for women to find the really nice men, the genuine ones. The real men who still understand respect, manners and what it means to be a gentleman.

 

And by the way, if you're so worried about not getting your money's worth, there are girls that specialise in those transactions. But I imagine you'd be the types to then haggle just in case the punter before you got an extra 5 minutes in the shower....

[SarahRose]

meanwhile dozens of others would rather talk about lighter topics. a male wo blabbers about medical fellowships or his accomplishments rarely gets far with females. a male who is fun and builds chemistry gets what he wants.

 

Hmmm i think i might add a puppet show to my dating repertoire.

 

let's say i don't want to hear about inane sports, or tv shows, or a play by play of how drunk they were last week.

 

most people are dumb and boring and talk about dumb and boring things so i will limit conversation to quantum physics, china's first female astronaut, and 4th grade toilet humor.

 

if the guy is too dumb and boring i can still enjoy the evening but just let my puppets talk to him.

[MooBear]

Hmmm i think i might add a puppet show to my dating repertoire.

 

if the guy is too dumb and boring i can still enjoy the evening but just let my puppets talk to him.

 

.......well now I want to see this puppet show after all this talk! Puppets are fun!!!

 

If I buy you dinner do you promise not to show the puppets to anyone else afterwards?

[SarahRose]

.......well now I want to see this puppet show after all this talk! Puppets are fun!!!

 

If I buy you dinner do you promise not to show the puppets to anyone else afterwards?

 

well i would bring my good puppets, not the slutty ones.

 

i have this slutty mermaid puppet who is always trying to get a threesome going with the 2 nun puppets.

[MooBear]

well i would bring my good puppets, not the slutty ones.

 

i have this slutty mermaid puppet who is always trying to get a threesome going with the 2 nun puppets.

 

The nun puppets are totally into it when you aren't watching I bet.

[RedRobin]

Ah, but men are spending time as well. There is time planning the date, picking her up/dropping her off, and then time on the date. In addition to all that, there is the money. The investment is still uneven. I do split the bill. My point was about what I would require if I were paying for the date, as many men do consistently.

 

Make sure she knows that before going on the date, is my suggestion.

 

There are others here who ask quite early if someone is seeing others before asking someone out or going on a date.

[Sanman]

Make sure she knows that before going on the date, is my suggestion.

 

There are others here who ask quite early if someone is seeing others before asking someone out or going on a date.

 

 

That is fine. I'm just amused by the uproar caused by the idea that a woman spend time getting to know me and only me if she is going to get my attention and money. My gf and I got to know each other for months before we first met and from the first date both of us did not date another person, sleep with anyone else, etc. It really is not that much to ask of someone to take dating you seriously. I think people need more expectations for the person they are dating. It cuts out the game playing. There are men and women out there that have no problem being able to give a person attention and getting to know them well while dating. The added benefit there is that I have had little problem giving my gf a commitment and getting married to her. I would have significantly more problems committing to someone that would see and sleep with others while I was dating them.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Sanman