Better YOURSELF First

[Imajerk17]

Huh? But I was always told that I should be out in public by myself, because guys are intimidated by groups of women. Being by myself in a public place is a perfect opportunity for a guy to approach me.

 

I don't understand... it doesn't count unless I'm with a group of people, but if I'm with a group of people, then how would I ever meet people?

 

 

 

 

Well they are classes, so they involve talking to people. The classes are almost entirely women... This is something Iris discussed in her thread, I've taken cooking classes, book clubs, volunteering events, etc, and there are just NO single men around. The only time I see guys at Meet-Ups are when they are part of a couple, or part of a big group (usually equal numbers men/women.)

 

So, the classes are social, but female-centric.

 

Well, yeah. I mean, these classes are all well and good if these hobbies mean a lot to you, but there just aren't going to be many guys there.

 

You have to do activities that put you with more guys.

 

Have you tried meet-ups for more guy-centric hobbies? What about hiking?

[verhrzn]

Well, yeah. I mean, these classes are all well and good if these hobbies mean a lot to you, but there just aren't going to be many guys there.

 

You have to do activities that put you with more guys.

 

Have you tried meet-ups for more guy-centric hobbies? What about hiking?

 

What are considered guy-centric hobbies that do not pertain to sports of some kind? (Yeeeah, I hate hiking and sports, so.... that really doesn't leave me with much, does it?)

[Mr Scorpio]

Can't or won't?

 

Well, given that I made about $600 a month last month, I don't well see how I can afford to update my wardrobe or travel. Not to mention that I'd be traveling alone, which doesn't sound like fun.

 

This doesn't mean that I'm not trying to better myself. I'm in school and go to the gym/work on guitar when I have time. But as for traveling and buying a new wardrobe? Not so realistic.

[Imajerk17]

What are considered guy-centric hobbies that do not pertain to sports of some kind? (Yeeeah, I hate hiking and sports, so.... that really doesn't leave me with much, does it?)

 

Aren't you into sci-fi and other nerdy type stuff, BESIDES lifting weights and martial arts? Those will do....

 

And what do you have against hiking?

[verhrzn]

Aren't you into sci-fi and other nerdy type stuff, BESIDES lifting weights and martial arts? Those will do....

 

And what do you have against hiking?

 

Ha, I am, but there aren't single guys there either!

 

I am just not a fan of outdoors. It's all great to look at, but I'm not keen on DOING things there.

[grkBoy]

1) Is a man who cant do much more than dress dull out of financial constraints?

 

Shop at Kohl's, JC Penney, Sears, etc. Look at the magazines for interesting STYLES and then fit to what you like using the clothes you see. If you're a t-shirt and jeans guy, try a button-up shirt with some style. Try showing up to an event with the jeans, button up shirt, and a sport coat. If you normally wear sneakers, try dressier shoes.

 

It's not about money and prices, because I never buy that expensive name-label crap. It's about what you choose and how you wear it.

 

2) Can't travel because of financial constraints?

 

Build that career first.

 

 

3) Can't build a career because they haven't been able to get one started in the first place?

 

Keep trying. Find your niche. Everyone has one. Too many just ignore it.

 

 

Beyond that, I'm interested in how you turned around your attitude in regard to number five listed above. I don't feel a pressure, at least not an external one, to find a mate. It's simplier than that, I'm simply lonely! I want companionship with the opposite sex! I want someone to make/share memories with! Someone to curl up next to in bed. Someone to care about and to care for me.

 

I got lonely too. I mainly kept seeing though how the people I knew in RLs were also miserable. Women complaining how their men are clueless or inconsiderate...men complaining how their women are nagging b!tches. I see drama, breakups, divorces, women and children abandoned, etc. That helped a lot because it made me thankful I wasn't in that mess.

 

I also took stock in my friends and made new ones. I was sociable, I took chances, I ventured out alone socially and did things just to see how well I'd fare on my own.

 

The goal mainly is to simply remove the notion in your mind that you "must find someone". You apparently and thankfully do not fall into that (based on your words). To fulfill yourself in life and make yourself happy on your own.

 

Maybe you'll turn to porn and your hand for the hormonal satisfaction, but I see too many men and women out there who simply think they are nothing because they're single. I see guys here who pour so much energy into dating, but fail in so many other aspects of their lives. I see women do this even more.

 

I would honestly tell you to take some of your energy and really get into ideas on how to better your professional life. If you're on the internet, then maybe you can read blogs and other resources to guide you there. My career is very important to me, and I'd call off my marriage before I give up my career. It's what makes it possible for me to live this happier life I wanted. That should be your focus.

Edited June 27, 2012 by grkBoy

[grkBoy]

Well they are classes, so they involve talking to people. The classes are almost entirely women... This is something Iris discussed in her thread, I've taken cooking classes, book clubs, volunteering events, etc, and there are just NO single men around.

 

This is why I keep telling the guys to take those classes.

 

If I was single, and wanted to meet women, I'd take a cooking class. I'd honestly believe I'd at least walk out of there with any single female in that class thinking "Yum!"

 

I'm not even being egotistical, but more trying to portray to these guys that if you're one of the few males in a place full of single women and you show you have some kind of diversity, interest, etc...meaning you are there because you want to cook or read said book and NOT to just meet women...then it'll go places.

 

I used to be surprised when women were instantly impressed when they found I could cook. Now I'm more used to this.

 

 

That reply isn't any "shot" at verhzn, but more yet again displaying for many men who simply make excuses why they should venture out of their safety zone.

[verhrzn]

This is why I keep telling the guys to take those classes.

 

If I was single, and wanted to meet women, I'd take a cooking class. I'd honestly believe I'd at least walk out of there with any single female in that class thinking "Yum!"

 

I'm not even being egotistical, but more trying to portray to these guys that if you're one of the few males in a place full of single women and you show you have some kind of diversity, interest, etc...meaning you are there because you want to cook or read said book and NOT to just meet women...then it'll go places.

 

I used to be surprised when women were instantly impressed when they found I could cook. Now I'm more used to this.

 

 

That reply isn't any "shot" at verhzn, but more yet again displaying for many men who simply make excuses why they should venture out of their safety zone.

 

Oh, I agree completely. If men want to meet women, all they need to do is venture into some female-centric place, and guaranteed they'll walk out with a number or two.

 

At my dancing academy, we actually have 2 or 3 guys who take pole dancing and burlesque classes. (And 2 of them are straight for sure.) They get SO much attention! And they're surrounded by giggling girls in corsets and booty shorts. Talk about a win situation for the men.

 

If you as a guy are actually willing to "go there," you'll also find that you have almost no competition, because guys are petrified of even brushing up against the "gay" label. If you make it clear that you are straight and yet can enjoy girly activities(like sewing or dancing or what have you), you are going to be spoiled for choices.

[FitChick]

MrScorpio, go to your Goodwill center to find clothes. You might be surprised at what you find. I've browsed the racks and spotted designer labels. I wouldn't buy shoes, though, if I were you. You can also shop eBay for used clothes. The retro look is in style but why pay for new department store retro when you can buy the same thing in good condition?

 

I like Goodwill for houseware items -- vases, decorative carved boxes, picture frames, for a couple of bucks. Most were unwanted gifts that people got rid of.

 

As for hiking, my female cousin joined the Sierra Club to find men and said it was mostly women and retired folks.

[Mr Scorpio]

I would honestly tell you to take some of your energy and really get into ideas on how to better your professional life. If you're on the internet, then maybe you can read blogs and other resources to guide you there. My career is very important to me, and I'd call off my marriage before I give up my career. It's what makes it possible for me to live this happier life I wanted. That should be your focus.

 

All I can say to the bolded part is wow! You must receive a lot of fulfillment from your career if you would abandon your life-partner for it. As for the rest, at the risk of having a negative reply to every suggestion someone tosses at me, my professional life is on hold for the next three years while I finish lawschool.

 

To me it is a paradox: on the one hand I am improving myself by going through this hell. On the other hand it keeps me from improving myself because seeing "lawschool" on my resume is a huge red-flag for employers. They "know" that I'd leave whatever position I'm hired for once I pass the bar exam.

 

Hell, all I want is 40k per year and a partner to share it with. It's frustrating to see how such things come so naturally to some people, whereas for me everyday is a struggle just to stay on the path.

 

Again, thank you for your reply.

[WonderKid]

All I can say to the bolded part is wow! You must receive a lot of fulfillment from your career if you would abandon your life-partner for it. As for the rest, at the risk of having a negative reply to every suggestion someone tosses at me, my professional life is on hold for the next three years while I finish lawschool.

 

To me it is a paradox: on the one hand I am improving myself by going through this hell. On the other hand it keeps me from improving myself because seeing "lawschool" on my resume is a huge red-flag for employers. They "know" that I'd leave whatever position I'm hired for once I pass the bar exam.

 

Hell, all I want is 40k per year and a partner to share it with. It's frustrating to see how such things come so naturally to some people, whereas for me everyday is a struggle just to stay on the path.

 

Again, thank you for your reply.

 

But when things "do" come to you--you will know and realize the value of it. Things that come so easy to others always fade quickly for them. They'll never get strong and they won't survive in a struggle. The more you are grinding it out the stronger you are getting.

[Mr Scorpio]

But when things "do" come to you--you will know and realize the value of it. Things that come so easy to others always fade quickly for them. They'll never get strong and they won't survive in a struggle. The more you are grinding it out the stronger you are getting.

 

Amen to that. Yet, you know West Michigan. So, you know the economy I'll likely be facing when I get done. Maybe I can dispense legal advice from behind the counter at McDonalds?

[SJC2008]

No I will not "better myself first". All types of people have bf's/gf's. Good ones, bad ones, liars, cheaters, commitment phobes. So I will be who I am thank you.

[Dafa]

Going to parties, bars, public places. I have a weekly ritual of writing at one of three local coffee shops (bookstore in my suburb, non-chain coffee shop in the "hip and young" neighborhood of the city, and then new ones I'm trying out.) I go to every party I'm invited to (which granted, isn't tons, because I'm friends with other introverts!)

 

I also take a ton of classes (dancing, sewing) and go to the gym as often as possible. Is that "out" enough?

 

As for the dancing, ballroom dancing? Perhaps try out south-american (brazilian-style) dances. I know some people that are quite fond of it and due to the close contact that the dancing entails, it is a very chemistry-filled activity, if you know what i mean. Sewing is good for meeting other women, i guess.

Regardless, going out in the world in order to expand your social circle can be very daunting when done alone. I was recently in a "working" trip in Madrid for a couple of months and at a given point i really wanted to go out at bit at night, if only to have a beer or something. I definitely did not want to go pick up women, i just wanted to go out a bit and if i indeed had the oportunity to socialize (be it with men or women) that would be fine!

When i arrived at the pub, i ordered my drink, took a seat and stood there for some mins, smoking a cig and stuff. After 5-10 mins of looking around the bar (decoration and whatnot) i had nothing else to look at other than the people that were in it. So i just stood there for 10 more mins or so looking at people, mostly women, of course...

The thing is that i then became quite self-aware of the fact that i was probably giving off a stalker/PUA vibe, which was most assuredly not my intention. I payed and left. My point with this is that trying to socialize alone is much much different than socializing with a group of friends. In this case, i felt that i could not do almost anything without giving off a PUA vibe.

 

Anyway, if i may ask, apart from those parties, do you often do activities like the aforementioned ones with your friends?

[jobaba]

 

Hell, all I want is 40k per year and a partner to share it with. It's frustrating to see how such things come so naturally to some people, whereas for me everyday is a struggle just to stay on the path.

 

 

If that is all you want, then I would drop out of law school and look for a job.

 

You could definitely make that no matter what your bachelors is in and no matter what part of the country you are in.

[Mr Scorpio]

If that is all you want, then I would drop out of law school and look for a job.

 

You could definitely make that no matter what your bachelors is in and no matter what part of the country you are in.

 

I spent two years trying to make that with a bachelors degree + a certificate in paralegal studies. These days? In this economy? I've found simply that no experience = no career.

 

Also, I should add that I want the 40k a year doing something that I can continue into old age because, lets face it, there will be no medicade/care for people currently in their 20s-30s when they hit retirement age.

[DjinnAgain]

So you're saying that the woman who doesn't want me now but wants me when my pecs are 1 cm higher and my job pays $15,000 a year more (things I am working on by the way) is going to be the one for me?

 

Oh joy! I can't wait to meet her!

 

For me, I'd say the time I want to meet a woman is when I'm down at my lowest. My motivation and loyalty is always the same no matter where I am in life. And the woman that sees that will be the right one.

 

 

I like this...

 

BUT...

 

working on yourself is still a good idea for you. There is a lot you find, inside yourself, while striving to be a better you - that has nothing to do with a partner.. That very well might be what attracts the one, not the bit of better you achieved.

 

It's not all physical, or financial -- it's volunteering, it's analyzing what has got you where you are, it's whatever little thing you find you want to add in your life. The direction you choose to focus your improvement efforts just says more who you are, lets you know yourself and others know you - a little more.

 

For fitness, it just feels awesome.

Being physically active (nothing to do with ascertaining a certain body) has been transformative for me in my life... others find that elsewhere.

[Imajerk17]

So you're saying that the woman who doesn't want me now but wants me when my pecs are 1 cm higher and my job pays $15,000 a year more (things I am working on by the way) is going to be the one for me?

 

Oh joy! I can't wait to meet her!

 

For me, I'd say the time I want to meet a woman is when I'm down at my lowest. My motivation and loyalty is always the same no matter where I am in life. And the woman that sees that will be the right one.

 

You know, I was going to argue against this but I actually see your point.

 

On the one hand, I'm all for self-improvement. But the thing I have against it is that it is so vague sometimes.

 

There are plenty of men (known sadly as the "rich douches") who worked really hard at their careers and who have a lot of money. And yet in their dating lives, they are either trying to "buy" a woman's affection, or they are instead creeping out a lot of girls. And there are dudes who wait tables and live with 3 roommates who are sleeping with more than their share of girls--the same desirable young women who turn down the rich douches...

 

Hell the year I was unemployed (and physically sick!) I had a cute devoted girlfriend. That's not saying that I want to go back to those days, but when it comes to attracting women, self-improvement can be overrated.

 

And this goes back to the advice we give the Lovable Losers. I agree that you have to learn to make friends and having a mission outside of women is great but... There are plenty of guys who are getting sex who aren't being nominated mayor of their community or who didn't try to save humanity in some third-world country. Most people actually live rather boring lives. I can say that there are still a lot of girls who would hang out with these guys (the Lovable Losers) pretty much as they are, if they would only stop whining, forget about their obsession with their own needs (physical AND emotional) for just a bit, learn some social skills (which can be learned on the fly) and risk rejection and ask girls out.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Imajerk17

[verhrzn]

And this goes back to the advice we give the Lovable Losers. I agree that you have to learn to make friends and having a mission outside of women is great but... There are plenty of guys who are getting sex who aren't being nominated mayor of their community or who didn't try to save humanity in some third-world country. Most people actually live rather boring lives. I can say that there are still a lot of girls who would hang out with these guys (the Lovable Losers) pretty much as they are, if they would only stop whining, forget about their obsession with their own needs (physical AND emotional) for just a bit, learn some social skills (which can be learned on the fly) and risk rejection and ask girls out.

 

I can't speak for lots of girls, but I know I would hang out with several of them. Improving yourself is all about stacking the deck in your favor, but sometimes it really is just a matter of luck/getting yourself out there.

 

I bet with some realistic expectations and some courage, a lot of the Lovable Losers here would make some great progress.

 

(Though in favor of stacking the deck, I still encourage them to pick up some female interests. I know if a guy showed up in my burlesque class, I'd be ALL over that!)

[jobaba]

I can't speak for lots of girls, but I know I would hang out with several of them. Improving yourself is all about stacking the deck in your favor, but sometimes it really is just a matter of luck/getting yourself out there.

 

I bet with some realistic expectations and some courage, a lot of the Lovable Losers here would make some great progress.

 

(Though in favor of stacking the deck, I still encourage them to pick up some female interests. I know if a guy showed up in my burlesque class, I'd be ALL over that!)

 

Hang out with us? I thought you were one of us.

[verhrzn]

Hang out with us? I thought you were one of us.

 

Yeah, but I'm a girl so no one believes me (and the same advice can't exactly be applied.)

[WonderKid]

you don't have to do all this if you are skilled at building chemistry. improving yourself can be helpful. but don't stop going for dates and or sex while you're improving yourself.

 

I don't stop looking "completely". If I have a nice chance to get a woman or get laid, then I will. But so many people put so much energy and will into that stuff, their potential passes them by. Then when things aren't successful, instead of using the rejection as motivation, we turn around and hate the world. And for what?

Not improving yourself as a better person--how will you be stable for a relationship? For me, I just decided to stop putting so much energy into chasing relationships and playing the date games. It gets redundant sometimes. When I'm ready, I'll go back out dating and such. But until then, I'm investing "my" feelings and "my" time into my Franchise Player--which is me.

[Imajerk17]

I don't stop looking "completely". If I have a nice chance to get a woman or get laid, then I will. But so many people put so much energy and will into that stuff, their potential passes them by. Then when things aren't successful, instead of using the rejection as motivation, we turn around and hate the world. And for what?

Not improving yourself as a better person--how will you be stable for a relationship? For me, I just decided to stop putting so much energy into chasing relationships and playing the date games. It gets redundant sometimes. When I'm ready, I'll go back out dating and such. But until then, I'm investing "my" feelings and "my" time into my Franchise Player--which is me.

 

Good for you man. There's some truth to what you are saying too. I'm a believer in becoming the person you want to date and in not settling.

 

I happen to like athletic women. And I do CrossFit (these are not uncorrelated). I love the feeling of now being able to rock out strict muscle-ups (google it)--several in a set--or doing workouts involving 45 hand-stand pushups and deadlifts at one and a half times my bodyweight. Is this helping my dating life though?

 

Yes, somewhat. The feeling of confidence I get leaving the box (our terminology for gym) and going to the supermarket after really helps my approaches. If I keep working, I'll keep getting better and better, and who knows, that just might impress the next hottie who joins our box or it might give me an "in" with a girl who catches my eye at the next competition. (Maybe though--I'm not the next Richard Froning by any means.) My goal is to become an instructor.

 

The bigger thing though, is that it is a class environment. I am interacting in a meaningful way with other people that isn't about technical/engineering stuff. Maybe even bigger still is that it will give me one more thing to talk about on dates, something I am passionate about.

 

Most importantly though, I am doing all this for ME.

 

But let's not get carried away here. This aint gonna build me a stairway to heaven. It's not going to get my dating life handled by itself, and that's important. No one, no matter how awesome, is satisfied without meaningful connections with other people, and without romantic connections too. To this end, we have to put myself out there to some extent when it comes to meeting women.

[WonderKid]

^^^ Good man I hope everything works out for you! I'm happy you got more confidence and better approaches!