Better YOURSELF First

[nessaaa]

That's what I am doing, bettering myself mentally tho.

And it's been sooo nice without men in my life. like a big weight has been lifted off my shoulder.

[WonderKid]

^^^ That's what I like to hear! I know what you feel!

[verhrzn]

@verhrzn Nooo I wasn't making out to be a bad comment.

 

I meant people are expecting to get into a relationship out of thin air. It takes time to form one. And when it doesn't happen it hits hard. I agree with you on the fate thing. That was my optimism speaking.

 

There's a whole world out there. And you're not gonna get anyone sitting in the living room or being a hermit. It can "just happen". You could be on a dating site. You see a man's profile and you think he looks completely gorgeous. But in the back of your head you say, "He couldn't like me because of this or that..." But, you sling him a message and think of nothing. But then, he gives you one back. You then find out you guys have been talking for 4 weeks straight now.

 

As you can see I'm not much of a date expert but I just try and help when I can. I don't want you to fail. I really hope you do find that right guy. Don't sit and dwell on not having success yet!

 

Well, it's all good and well that you're optimistic, cause maybe optimism works for you.

 

But I have approached, or messaged, guys, and they never respond. Guys never write to me either.

 

I'm out in the world all the time, even though it's not my natural environment (being an introvert.) STILL nothing. And it's been this way for months.

 

There's optimism, and then there's delusion. The best predictor of the future, is the past. If guys have never been interested in dating me before, or currently, why would that suddenly change in the future?

 

Also, I'd rather hang myself than message a gorgeous guy. Ick. Why would I set myself up for such misery? That makes no sense. Do you not believe in dating within your league? (And my league being, apparently, fat unemployed stupid older men.)

[verhrzn]

theres no leagues

 

Really. I keep getting told on this site that's why I'm such a failure with men... cause of my high expectations, shooting outside my league, etc. Ya know, wanting a guy with a job, or a college degree, or that has some sort of intelligence.

 

If there are no leagues, why am I always being told that I'm going outside mine?

[shibbikitteh]

What makes you (or indeed other people)

Put you in a low league ?

[verhrzn]

What makes you (or indeed other people)

Put you in a low league ?

 

The fact that I can't get anyone, must mean that I'm aiming too high, I think the logic goes.

 

Though I suppose that ties back to the whole "self improvement"... become what you want to attract.

[shibbikitteh]

That's pretty much what I was going to say.

If you take pride in your opinions, health, appearance, and most importantly treating people how you deem correct.

That puts you at the top of any league O_O.

[grkBoy]

Here is how I look at "better yourself"

 

1. Hit the gym. Doesn't mean you have to be an adonis or model, but it means you have to get in shape. Part of it for your personal health, but the other for a confidence boost when you feel physically good.
   
2. Look better. This goes beyond the gym. It's the usual song and dance I give about fashion and personal hygiene. If you're a man who dresses dull and doesn't stand out, don't expect women to look your way. If you're a woman who dresses "comfy" all the time and never "hottie", then don't get mad when men aren't looking your way.
   
3. Get a life. I've noticed most of the people I've ever told to "better yourself" in all honesty have no life...despite how much they claim they do. You have to do things that will not only make you grow as a person, but get you socially around other people. Break out of your comfort zone and do something bold. I usually toss travel as an idea...and I mean someplace interesting, not just a place with stores, clubs, and cocktails.
   
4. Build your career. I'll still roll my eyes when I meet unemployed struggling folk who seemingly still think "dating" is a priority. How about get a job first, and perhaps build it into a career? If you're in a career, then what are you doing to move up in the world?
   
5. Fix your attitude. I dove into this in many topics. Part of "bettering yourself" is about trying to free yourself from the constant pressure and thought that you "must" find someone. Where you feel inadequate without a mate, and seemingly can't handle being alone. This was the big one for me, and it became my turning point which set me on a new path to happiness.
   

[USMCHokie]

This thread reminds me of Richard Simmons...

 

But all joking aside, there's a truth to OP's premise that it all starts with yourself, but I also find issue with his blind optimism. Wholagin, you are definitely right, his sort of motivation can only work for a certain crowd...that is, it would only work as affirmation for those who already live for themselves as he prescribes...and it's clear just from noticing the folks who "liked" his posts...

 

Just like how unfit people would tell Richard Simmons to go f*ck himself, I can see how some folks on here would tell OP to go f*ck himself...blind optimism is not realistic and can lead to disappointment if expectations aren't managed...OP doesn't quite understand that and probably can't empathize with those who have lived for so long under the impression that they were "bettering themselves" but found no success...

 

You really can't know whether you are bettering yourself without some way of gauging that...and OP encourages the use of external validation to assess that...e.g., work out and lose weight, and women will begin to notice you, and when they do, you can feel better about yourself!

 

I'm not arguing aganist it at all. In fact, it only strengthens me theory that external validation is the foundation of our "internal" validation and sense of self-worth...

[ThaWholigan]

This thread reminds me of Richard Simmons...

 

But all joking aside, there's a truth to OP's premise that it all starts with yourself, but I also find issue with his blind optimism. Wholagin, you are definitely right, his sort of motivation can only work for a certain crowd...that is, it would only work as affirmation for those who already live for themselves as he prescribes...and it's clear just from noticing the folks who "liked" his posts...

 

Just like how unfit people would tell Richard Simmons to go f*ck himself, I can see how some folks on here would tell OP to go f*ck himself...blind optimism is not realistic and can lead to disappointment if expectations aren't managed...OP doesn't quite understand that and probably can't empathize with those who have lived for so long under the impression that they were "bettering themselves" but found no success...

 

You really can't know whether you are bettering yourself without some way of gauging that...and OP encourages the use of external validation to assess that...e.g., work out and lose weight, and women will begin to notice you, and when they do, you can feel better about yourself!

 

I'm not arguing aganist it at all. In fact, it only strengthens me theory that external validation is the foundation of our "internal" validation and sense of self-worth...

Well, it's a theory, I suppose it has it's credence, there will probably be many examples that support your theory.

 

Hasn't really been my experience though - or maybe I have received lots of "external validation" and simply take it for granted, I don't know. But I feel it's important to feel good about oneself even without external validation - because needing external validation without internal validation is not a good thing. How does one cope when one feeds off of external validation but doesn't get it? One becomes depressed. So one should take steps to make sure that even in the absence of immediate external validation, one is able to cultivate a healthy sense of self without being dependent on things one doesn't completely control to an extent. One can influence external stimuli, and vice versa. I think you can't have one without the other. Not sure which one is the foundation (I go with internal personally), but surely there is synthesis.

[WonderKid]

I am not trying to validate anything. I'm just trying to give people insights on how to stop acting like your life is "complete" once you find the right person. Can you honestly sit here and tell me that sitting back making excuses, being bitter and negative is gonna get you any results? If a man/woman stay consistent being positive as to being pessimistic then good things can happen.

Whether its losing weight, going places, doing hobbies or experiencing different things you'll witness the marvels in life. Commonly among young people, if they don't find anyone quickly it's "all over". I'm alone forever! It's not the case. My optimism isn't blind but love is. And it takes over your mind. You need to elevate yourself and find some confidence. I'm not saying this is the answer and miracle to everything, but it sure hell is a nice start would you agree?

 

Complaining is going to happen--so is pessimism--its human. But we don't have to dwell on that. I know what works for me won't work for everyone and I wish it did, but at least it can help "someone". I feel great about myself. I'm building new structures and dating is nowhere near a top priority for me. If I meet a nice woman then it will be great. But for now, I don't think its selfish to think of myself now right?

 

If you're fat or unhappy with your body: Eat right and be active! Change it!!! Stop "saying" you're tired and start "Doing it"!

 

Getting the wrong guy/girl?: Some people have high expectations. But when they say never judge a book by its cover its not cliche at all. That guy that's in ragged clothes riding a bike. He could just be preferring to ride his bike instead a car. With gas prices today who would be surprised right? The ragged clothes could be his construction worker clothes or anything. There is more to people than meets the eye.

 

I don't believe in leagues. I don't even know who made that rule up. And I'm not fond of it. If you want something/someone then go for it. It isn't gonna come to you and no one is gonna give you anything. If you get shot down--so what it was a good go. Right?

[USMCHokie]

I am not trying to validate anything.

 

We're talking about different things, and I don't think you understand the point that I was making.

 

We'll just leave it at that.

[Dafa]

Including your negative attitude. Gosh, I can't imagine why you're having no success.

 

Don't be snide. Apparently you are lucky enough to not require external validation to have a nice view of yourself. However, some (if not most) people at a given point of their "path" of improving themselves require external validation. A small compliment where none existed initially does wonders to these people. Living your life completely disregarding the input of others is just as dysfunctional as the opposite. In this sense, try to put yourself in a position of someone who acknowledges that he/she must better himself. This hypothetical person will then start going to the gym (which is something he/she dislikes), gets out of his comfort zone and engages in everyday behaviours that are unnatural to him/her (which is always hard and may be emotionally exhausting), etc. Now imagine that after a few months of this continuous labouring, they feel they are in the same place. How would you feel?

 

Frankly, all of this "internal validation is everything" always reminds me of those dudes that go on those talent singing shows, sing like crap and even after they are told they suck, they still think they are good. Why this happens, and perhaps more importantly, why people celebrate this kind of "autistic" behaviour in others is something i am yet to understand...

 

ThaWholigan summed it up very wisely: it's a synthesis, as in a "mixture" of thesis and antithesis. At least that's what i believe he meant.

[Dafa]

(...)

I'm out in the world all the time, even though it's not my natural environment (being an introvert.) STILL nothing. And it's been this way for months.

(...)

 

If i may ask, what more exactly do you mean when you say "out in the world"?

Perhaps therein lies an issue...

[Dafa]

who cares what some ignoramuses told you. theres no leagues. i saw an obese woman walking hand in hand with a hot guy yesterday. i see it all. what are your expectations? you don't come off as confident.

 

This is along the lines of saying: "I saw a black swan yesterday, therefore there should quite a lot of them around". That happens, yes! But it is, at most, an exception to the usual rule...

But yeah, this discussion about leagues and being a 5 or 10 is what is called in my country "discussing the sex of angels". Not much use doing it since apparently no one will change their view and it is impossible to find an absolute answer.

 

Being confident in yourself is very different from having an overly inflated image of oneself. I believe most people that appear confident suffer from the latter. Discuss!

[Emilia]

Hasn't really been my experience though - or maybe I have received lots of "external validation" and simply take it for granted, I don't know. But I feel it's important to feel good about oneself even without external validation - because needing external validation without internal validation is not a good thing. How does one cope when one feeds off of external validation but doesn't get it? One becomes depressed. So one should take steps to make sure that even in the absence of immediate external validation, one is able to cultivate a healthy sense of self without being dependent on things one doesn't completely control to an extent. One can influence external stimuli, and vice versa. I think you can't have one without the other. Not sure which one is the foundation (I go with internal personally), but surely there is synthesis.

 

When I lived in Africa, literally in the middle of nowhere in the bush working for a safari company, I was surrounded by people who were very different from me. They had a very different value system when it came to women, race, wealth, even death. I lived without significant external validation for most of the time although when we had brief overlaps in terms of achieving success at something together, I received (and gave) some. I learned to survive without it though.

 

Now I'm back in the UK there is much more external validation and I shut myself away from it on purprose sometimes because I like the inner peace that relying on internal validation brings. However, external validation is also a form of social control, feedback on your social skills so it mustn't be discounted completely.

 

I think you want a balance on this, the more centered and content you feel, the more the scale has tipped towards internal validation.

 

If you feel you rely on external validation too much, you should spend a year or so doing somethng that only matters to YOU and no-one else. Perhaps something that others discount completely. When you have success at that you will gain the sort of confidence that allows you to walk your own path.

[Emilia]

 

Being confident in yourself is very different from having an overly inflated image of oneself. I believe most people that appear confident suffer from the latter. Discuss!

 

I think you can tell that from how much feedback they need and how noisy they are

[Mr Scorpio]

Here is how I look at "better yourself"

 

1. Hit the gym. Doesn't mean you have to be an adonis or model, but it means you have to get in shape. Part of it for your personal health, but the other for a confidence boost when you feel physically good.
   
2. Look better. This goes beyond the gym. It's the usual song and dance I give about fashion and personal hygiene. If you're a man who dresses dull and doesn't stand out, don't expect women to look your way. If you're a woman who dresses "comfy" all the time and never "hottie", then don't get mad when men aren't looking your way.
   
3. Get a life. I've noticed most of the people I've ever told to "better yourself" in all honesty have no life...despite how much they claim they do. You have to do things that will not only make you grow as a person, but get you socially around other people. Break out of your comfort zone and do something bold. I usually toss travel as an idea...and I mean someplace interesting, not just a place with stores, clubs, and cocktails.
   
4. Build your career. I'll still roll my eyes when I meet unemployed struggling folk who seemingly still think "dating" is a priority. How about get a job first, and perhaps build it into a career? If you're in a career, then what are you doing to move up in the world?
   
5. Fix your attitude. I dove into this in many topics. Part of "bettering yourself" is about trying to free yourself from the constant pressure and thought that you "must" find someone. Where you feel inadequate without a mate, and seemingly can't handle being alone. This was the big one for me, and it became my turning point which set me on a new path to happiness.
   

While I think these are all good strategies, I'm wondering what you do recommend for the person who:

 

1) Is a man who cant do much more than dress dull out of financial constraints?

 

2) Can't travel because of financial constraints?

 

3) Can't build a career because they haven't been able to get one started in the first place?

 

Beyond that, I'm interested in how you turned around your attitude in regard to number five listed above. I don't feel a pressure, at least not an external one, to find a mate. It's simplier than that, I'm simply lonely! I want companionship with the opposite sex! I want someone to make/share memories with! Someone to curl up next to in bed. Someone to care about and to care for me.

[verhrzn]

If i may ask, what more exactly do you mean when you say "out in the world"?

Perhaps therein lies an issue...

 

Going to parties, bars, public places. I have a weekly ritual of writing at one of three local coffee shops (bookstore in my suburb, non-chain coffee shop in the "hip and young" neighborhood of the city, and then new ones I'm trying out.) I go to every party I'm invited to (which granted, isn't tons, because I'm friends with other introverts!)

 

I also take a ton of classes (dancing, sewing) and go to the gym as often as possible. Is that "out" enough?

[Emilia]

 

1) Is a man who cant do much more than dress dull out of financial constraints?

 

2) Can't travel because of financial constraints?

 

3) Can't build a career because they haven't been able to get one started in the first place?

 

 

Can't or won't?

[Emilia]

I have a weekly ritual of writing at one of three local coffee shops (bookstore in my suburb, non-chain coffee shop in the "hip and young" neighborhood of the city, and then new ones I'm trying out.)

 

solitary therefore doesn't count

I go to every party I'm invited to (which granted, isn't tons, because I'm friends with other introverts!)

 

still that's good

 

I also take a ton of classes (dancing, sewing) and go to the gym as often as possible. Is that "out" enough?

 

how many of these are truly social and how many just solitary doing stuff by yourself without talking to anyone?

[jobaba]

While I think these are all good strategies, I'm wondering what you do recommend for the person who:

 

1) Is a man who cant do much more than dress dull out of financial constraints?

 

2) Can't travel because of financial constraints?

 

3) Can't build a career because they haven't been able to get one started in the first place?

 

Beyond that, I'm interested in how you turned around your attitude in regard to number five listed above. I don't feel a pressure, at least not an external one, to find a mate. It's simplier than that, I'm simply lonely! I want companionship with the opposite sex! I want someone to make/share memories with! Someone to curl up next to in bed. Someone to care about and to care for me.

 

I don't have the statistics in front of me, but I'd venture to guess that for every unemployed or underemployed male in the US, there is at least one unemployed or underemployed female.

 

Yes. I do believe it is a little bit harder for an unemployed male to get into a relationship. But still...

 

There are some rare women who will not care that you are in the situation that you are in. Trust me. It is up to you to find them.

 

In the meantime, what's the harm of hitting on women when you are in a down period? I have thought this myself in down periods. Are you depleting somebody who might like you later when you have a good job? Not likely.

 

Think about it this way. If a woman does not want to date you now, but does when you are doing litigation and making 70K, do you want her?

 

Or to flip it around, would you date a woman who was in the same situation as you?

Edited June 27, 2012 by jobaba

[WonderKid]

I understand that in these days and times not everyone has a job. Jobs are hard to come buy and even careers. If I was seeing a woman and she had no job but still had the mentality showing that she is willing to progress in life then I can accept that. Then I could motivate her to keep that drive into becoming more than what she is. I would like a woman to see the same thing in me, but it's quite rare I admit.

[verhrzn]

solitary therefore doesn't count

 

Huh? But I was always told that I should be out in public by myself, because guys are intimidated by groups of women. Being by myself in a public place is a perfect opportunity for a guy to approach me.

 

I don't understand... it doesn't count unless I'm with a group of people, but if I'm with a group of people, then how would I ever meet people?

 

 

Are truly social and how many just solitary doing stuff by yourself without talking to anyone?

 

Well they are classes, so they involve talking to people. The classes are almost entirely women... This is something Iris discussed in her thread, I've taken cooking classes, book clubs, volunteering events, etc, and there are just NO single men around. The only time I see guys at Meet-Ups are when they are part of a couple, or part of a big group (usually equal numbers men/women.)

 

So, the classes are social, but female-centric.

[Emilia]

Huh? But I was always told that I should be out in public by myself, because guys are intimidated by groups of women. Being by myself in a public place is a perfect opportunity for a guy to approach me.

 

I don't understand... it doesn't count unless I'm with a group of people, but if I'm with a group of people, then how would I ever meet people?

 

You want to socialise with people rather than wait to be approached. If you talk to others in the coffee shop that's great but I'm assuming you are waiting to be approached? I go to meetup group gatherings by myself all the time, joined a debate society for example. I met about 20 new faces that day, about half are men.

 

Well they are classes, so they involve talking to people. The classes are almost entirely women... This is something Iris discussed in her thread, I've taken cooking classes, book clubs, volunteering events, etc, and there are just NO single men around. The only time I see guys at Meet-Ups are when they are part of a couple, or part of a big group (usually equal numbers men/women.)

 

So, the classes are social, but female-centric.

 

Good to make friends and a lot of people meet their SOs through friends. It's always good to extend your social circle. However, groups where male ratio is higher would be much better as well. Mine are sport ones and debate/politics/philosophy ones.