Men and breasts. Is it true?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Cracker Jack

I'm not looking to avoid anything. I'm simply telling it how it is from a male's perspective. It's a two way discussion, last time I checked. I'm allowed to give input from my actual experiences.

 

The "they do it too" argument has nothing to do with a sincere attempt to see something from one side, yes even OVER the other side in the moment. You yourself even said that it probably does happen to women more then men. Yet you were ready to refocus the topic of the discussion to the classic "they do it too" argument. Talking about something one gender does over an other does not imply that the other gender doesn't also do it too. But I understand the knee jerk reaction and have done it myself. I just think that sometimes it impeeds addressing one side at the current time.

 

 

Same. But then again, you have to look at the guys making those topics. Most guys have the perfect woman in their mind in terms of weight, height, breast size, everything--so most of them won't hesitate to let their opinion be known on the matter.

 

I really don't understand how this addresses what you qouted me saying. I said:

 

For every 10 threads about women's bodies..how women are too fat, how their breasts should be this shape or size, how when they get older they are worthless, blah blah blah....there is probably 1 or 2 threads about men's bodies.

 

You want to act like coments about women's bodies and male bodies is on equal footing. It's not.

 

I think women are very familiar with how often men are eager to let their opinion be known about their bodies. However, that doesn't mean that it's okay or that what men say is always good or right. How about you stop with the, "if men say it oh well that's the way it is". You talk about there being two sides but you don't even want to acknowledge women in the equation unless it's their body you are talking about. It's like everything is justifible because men like this or that but you don't actually want to acknowledge how that can make some women feel. I guess men's sexuality is much more important then considering women as people when it comes to their own thoughts on such thing.

 

 

How you draw a comparison of height (something you can't really change, and isn't brought about by any certain lifestyle you've had, unless it was something drastic like doing meth at maybe 10 or 12 yrs old) to weight (something most people have control over, last time I checked), I have no idea. The two aren't remotely similiar.

 

Come on. You've seen the threads around here. You've seen the nasty comments. You've seen the way the guys here have picked on women's bodies about their weight. I don't care if height is something you can't change and weight is. It doesn't mean that just because someone has a certain feature that is changable that they get to have disparging talk made about them just because that person isn't attracted to their body. By the way, you were the one comparing height to breasts. You do realize that breasts can also be changed right?

 

Yes the two are very similar. More similiar then breasts and height.

 

And let's be real, most people in general want their partners to be at a healthy weight. Me, personally, I'd have no issue dating a thick woman, but that's neither here nor there.

 

Sexual ideals about weight have nothing to do with caring about the health of people. You can not alawys tell how healthy someone is by their weight. Sure, if someone is morbidly obese, they are unhealthy. But I am not talking about extreme cases. I am just talking about general over-weightness. There are many skinny people that eat nothing but junk and there are over weight people who engage in a regular healthy diet and exercise. I see many regular ladies at my gym that are thicker but they work out and take classes regularly. I have had a few girlfriends that had really horrible diets but where able to remain skinny. Then there is also the matter of how the kind of thinness that gets over glorified in the media isn't really healthy obtained either. We socially don't have a full grasp on healthy concepts of how weight and health go hand in hand.

 

 

I have. More times than not, the guy was a tall good looking guy, but I've still seen my fair share of women quickly shift their attention towards him simply based on how he looks. Also, I hope you're not referring to me above, because I never said "I don't like big breasts", just that they're not a big deal to me. They're nice, but I don't care for them in particular.

 

I was talking about you a bit..but it was also for certain guys in general where I've seen that kind before. But I should have said "I don't care for big breasts.." instead of that you don't like them because yes, that would have been more accurate based on what you said. Sorry about misrepresenting your comments there.

 

 

Nope, because most terms aimed at gays are meant to hurt their feelings based on how they are.

 

And euphenisms created about women's bodies where never meant to be purposely degrading to women or their body parts? Because when guys use such words they are trying to be respectful and cute toward women? They are not as different as you'd like them to be. Using names to call someone something or their body parts something aren't that far removed from one another. A euphenism is a euphenism right? Men don't use euphenisms for women's bodies because they are trying to respect women. And do men always have to respect women you might ask? They don't. But it doesn't mean when men don't that it doesn't suck.

 

 

One is straight up implying a dude is a homosexual and the other is implying a woman has large breasts. You tell me.

 

One is making up a name to call someone else the other is making up a name to call someone else's body. It doesn't matter that one brings him sexual pleasure and the other doesn't. Just because it makes a guy feel good to give names to women's breasts doesn't mean it makes a woman feel good.

 

Except implying someone is homosexual is nowhere near as playful as one talking about a woman with large breasts. Especially since the former is far more despised in society, while the latter is actully sought after.

 

I see. So because men like big breasts sexually, whatever they want to call them, however they want to treat a woman or talk about her body, is okay. I guess that's great for you but not so great for the person that is on the receiving end of that that is an actual person.

 

It doesn't matter if men like big breasts Cracker Jack. Just because men like big breasts doesn't mean they get to make up names for women's bodies and say them with glee just because they like big breasts. Liking big breasts doesn't justify making up disparging names for women's body parts. I know you wish it did. I know you think male sxuality justifies certain names and behaviors, but that is something I simply can't go for. You don't live in a world where male sexuality is the the only or even most important aspect of it. Wanting to make up names for women's body parts just because a man likes them, and justifying it on that is ludicris.

 

 

Nope. Never said those women were better than you simply based on the difference between how you think. I already said at the end of the day these things have to be judged on a case by case basis.

 

You specifically targeted women and the women that are okay with such things to use it against me and how I am not okay with it. It impies that because other women may not be as bothered by it, that it was okay to call women's body parts certain names.

 

I am very familiar with the kind of shaming games men engage in concerning women. Such as how men go on about how "cool" women are when they point out hot chicks to them and other positive reinforcements that gives accolades to women that act more like his buddies.

 

 

Yes, she's uptight in my opinion. Nothing wrong with that. Just means I wouldn't be able to mesh well with someone who chooses to see everything in such a dark light. She probably wouldn't think I'm her type of guy, anyway. I guess I just don't see why it bothers you so much if you're actually comfortable in your own skin.

 

It's just more shaming Cracker Jack. Saying someone is "uptight" is usually used negatively to describe someone. No one makes the connection that being "uptight" is a positive. If you just said, a woman that didn't like the way I talked about women when I use euphenisms to describe them wouldn't be someone who would mesh well with me is totally different then calling someone else "uptight" because they don't agree with you or laugh at how cute you are whn you use euphenisms.

 

And the last sentence in that paragraph is more shaming. You don't get why it may bother someone (me) yet you insinuate that because it botheres me it means I'm not comfortable in my own skin. I'm not even sure how you draw the conclusion. Because someone is not suppose to like hearing certain words used to describe their own body? And if they don't like them it means their uptight and what..your so great and evolved and well rounded because you can use all kind of euphenisms to describe a woman's body? Yeah okay.

 

Oh, come on, DY. I have mad love for you! I always enjoyed how you never pulled punches and spoke your mind, even back in your Jersey days. I don't think I'm better than anyone, so I don't know where you're getting that from.

 

Thanks, that's a sincerely nice thing to say and I had no idea.

 

But I do feel like I am getting a bit undermined here and getting all kind of labels attached to me.. (such as being uptight, not comfortable with my body) and other stuff because it gets annoying to see grown men talk about women's bodies in certain terms. I unfortunetly believe that men bond over talking about women derogatorly.

 

Lots of things bother me. I never enjoyed feeling like the odd one out because of my lack of experience; I never enjoyed feeling like I can never live up to the definition society sets on being a man, both physically and mentally; I never enjoyed seeing women I had feelings for be hurt constantly; I also never enjoyed seeing good women being taken advantage of, either.

 

After awhile, DY, I realized that I, as a single individual living in this world, has absolutely no control over how others act in life. That's just what it comes down to. I can stop making certain references to women's bodies and all of that good stuff, but does that really change anything? Does it change the reality we live in? It wouldn't.

 

I agree that no single individual living in the world has no control over how ohers act. That doesn't mean though that I join the crowd or stop talking about the things I think are important. Even if other people think I am silly or whatever. And it doesn't mean other people, myself included, can't change seeing how others live their life. I've seen that happen. And it's happened to me. The people you surround yourself with have the possiblity to change your life. But that only happens based on your own choices.

 

I do think one person can make a difference. I know it can feel like it can't, but I know it can and have seen how one person has made a difference and how it had a ripple affect. I also think that I don't always want to be the "reality" of what we live in. Just because other women may use words about men or women and their body parts, doesn't mean I have to live in that reality and do what they do. I can make up my own way according to how I want to live my life. And that is actually change right there.

 

 

I'm just saying you can't be so quick to lash out because of how other people conduct their lives. Sure, you can be upset at the lack of respect men are displayng nowadays, but what happens after that? More built up frustration over foolishness in society? It's not worth it. It's merely the world we live in.

 

Why am I lashing out Cracker Jack? Because I have an opinion about it? Did I call men names because they use names for womens' bodies?

 

I understand the reality of what we live in everyday. That doesn't mean I have to accept it or throw in the towel on my beliefs because of that. I refuse to do that.

 

 

I just said you need to develop "thicker" skin because it's clear you're offended rather easily when it comes to any "wrongdoing" men appear to deliver to women, such as watching porn and masturbation, call their breasts different names, etc. Simply put, you come off pretty frantic whenever certain discussions come up, which shows that you're way too emotionally invested in some of these topics.

 

Darn straight I am offended by some of what goes on regarding how men choose to talk or interact with women. Darn straight that I think there is a lot of stuff that isn't great about how men (and women) conduct themselves with regards of the opposite sex. Darn straight I think porn is more negative then positive. But telling me I need to develope a thicker skin so that I think just like you or everyone else on these topics is really silly. While my posts certainly can be emotionally charged and passionate, I also make a lot of fine intellectual parts and I think you are ignoring that in favor of trying to paint me one way. Such as simply being emotional. When that isn't the case. I don't ust spew stuff with on argument to back it up. And while I may be sensitive, being sensitive and not having thick skin are not synonmous. I really don't get why I must always be point in the position to defend myself. I don't understand why people can't simply talk about the topic and not bring in personal commentary about me in the process.

 

 

Men leering while out with their own woman is the problem, then. You should've just came out and said that instead of going on about how disrespectful it is for men to leer. It's all clear now.

 

It's certianly part of it but it's not the only part I was takling about! I am not sure whaty ou think is clear now. I was not simply just talkign about men out with their woman. Although yes, that is a problem I see with men quite often.

 

 

Come on. Even kids notice when a woman's breasts are really big. And I've seen the reaction from them with my own eyes. Simply put, it's a physical feature made to stand-out and draw attention from people. Those women might not enjoy that attention and I feel for them, but that's how it is in general society. Breasts draw attention. Why do you think most women get their breast size increased? For kicks? No. To draw attention.

 

I'm sorry you are so bothered that I think men's actions should back up their words. If a man truly isn't that interested in the size of a woman's breasts, then he isn't interested in the size of a woman's breasts and he isn't going to be spending his time oggling all kinds of women for their breasts.

 

Yes, I agree that most women get their breast size increased because they want attention. Because they see how men act and react to their breasts and decide to become more of what men pay attention to. So when I hear men say stuff like "breasts don't matter but I am going to look at big breasts", it is incredibly hypocritical. It's clear that breasts do matter. If men appreacited womens' bodies as they were in all different sizes, then so many women wouldn't feel the need to go under the knife to be something she really isn't.

 

I've already pointed out that Amercia is very breasts obessed. For whatever reason, for too many men, who I personally think have been hugely influenced by outside factors, big breasts are a big deal. ANd women seeing this, have also been affected by influences as well to the extent that they will alter their bodies for what men show they like. However, this isn't the case in other countries so much that in general seem to be much more sexually open then us in America.

 

 

And this is something I'm always doing. Even to a fault. I'm very guarded around women, and usually don't take many risks with them. Topics like this only reinforce why I've been doing that for so long.

 

I'm not sure I understand this. Care to further explain?

 

 

But. I. Don't. Know. Her. I can think of her feelings, but where does that get me, DY? Answer that. No, wait! I'll take the pleasure of doing it myself: nowhere. Why? Because I have nothing to go off of. There's no existing data for me to analyze.

 

And where does not thinking of her except to oggle her breasts get you? Another mental image in teh good old spank-bank to pull out later? I'm not too clear what your point is. That you only treat people a certain way when you get something out of it first?

 

Whenever I see a woman with a sad expression on her face, I often wonder why she appears to be so troubled, but at the end of the day, what can I do about her feelings? Thinking of her feelings sounds good, but what does it actually do? How does this benefit me or the woman?

 

That's true. Thinking of women in terms of their physical looks only and not the other components that make them human couldn't possibly ever benefit men or women. It couldn't possibly foster more understanding between one another and healther relationships and interactions with women that buck the trend of just oggling them.

 

 

That's not the answer I want because that's not the type of guy I am. I'm nowhere near the most visual guy. Never have been. And no, you're not a bad guy for that. I just want to understand how wondering about a strangers feelings is actually beneficial for me or her. If you're just referring to men who have girlfriends that leer at other women, I 100% agree with you.

 

Men have a tendency of seperating women from their own humanity. Especially when they see the sexuality of that woman. If you don't think of that person as a human being and think about how your treatment of her is influential on smaller terms, then you are pursely seeing her as just something to oggle and visually masturbate to. Not thinking of women in terms of their own humanity enables men to more easily treat women like a disassociated object. When men actually begin to take in the whole picture, the real whole picture and not just look at her body parts and think "wow, awesome, I like that", that means he actually has to think about her as another complext human being. Understanding that women are more then walking breasts and actually treating women as more then walking breasts appear to be two different things. Mens' ability to disassociated women's sexuality from her humanity is actually a really big issue in my opinion.

 

If anything, being the type of guy I am, I'll just assume because she's beautiful and has a nice body, she's constantly hit on, then I'll just walk away because I don't want to be another guy that makes her feel uncomfortable. I'm sure you don't care much about my dilemma in those situations.

 

And I am sure you don't care about all the other women that don't fit into the visualness norms you keep reinforcing is what men want the most and how they don't get hit on or even thought about. they get passed right by for the shiner model. Because like you said, men want big breasts for the most part and that's just the way it is. You don't much seem to care about how that affects other women along with women with big breasts. Because that's "jsut the way it is" remember? Those where your own words. Anytime I voiced something about the topic you came back quite regularly with the attitude that I just need to suck it up because "that's just the way it is".

 

I've always considered a woman's feelings, and, as much as you may not like to hear this, I feel like this is one of the reasons why I've never done too well with women. Having way too much consideration for their feelings, which stops me from making my interest known

 

Okay, then treat women less like a human being and don't consider her feelings. What do you want me to say? Caring about how you treat a woman stops you from getting what you want. I guess that's justification enough for men to treat women anyway they please then.

 

 

Understandable, but that's just the reality of things. Luckily there are tons of guys who aren't lusting and only thinking about having sex with women, so that's good.

 

Oh okay..so which is it? First it's all about how most men want this and that's what men are going to do and male sexuality overrules everything else now it's guys are really great that think about other things? It's like your argument changes on where it best benefits you. All you did for the first part of this post was talk about how this is what most guys wanted and that it was "just how it was"..now it's, "there are tons of guys who treat women well". Good lord.

 

 

I have acknowledged men's actions on this, but what it comes down to is how women are going to handle men of that nature. Since this has been going on for centuries, it's clear that there's no solid answer on why. That's why I assume most go for the "biology" bit. Most people use this whenever it's convenient for them.

 

And I don't think people should get away with using the "biology" bit because human beings are a lot more then the function of their sexual organs. There are many more emotions, jsut as powerful, then just sex. So it's really foolish to justify everything on an over simplified version of sexuality and biology and not account for our other natural biologies or feelings as human beings.

 

 

When you realize that there's no simple answer to something of this magnitude, you'll understand what I mean. Instead of overcomplicating things like this, all you can do is focus on how you're going to repel men like that. You (and all of us) lack the power to change how men are going to approach women, so why not just focus on strengthening your own boundaries rather than get so distraught over things that have been happening since the dark ages?

 

Why do you assume that I don't already do this? Strengthen my own boundries? Just because I talk about these things with honesty doesn't mean I think things are going to just all the sudden change. But I think it's important to be aware of these things and discuss them.

 

 

I do understand that interactions between men and women are very versatile, which is a great thing. I don't think going into an approach with that mindset (she's beautiful, I want to have sex with her. Sex is the only thing I'm focused on) is exactly healthy to do, myself.

 

We agree on something.

 

 

And...I don't disagree with that. That's why these things have to be judged on a case by case basis. It's not difficult for a guy to conduct himself like a gentleman, appearing to not care about sex...while having sex as the #1 thing on his mind when it comes to approaching women. I think treating her like a person instead of a woman you just wanna get into bed is the best approach, actually.

 

That's why I am not simply just talking about "pretending" to treat women well.

 

 

 

I do care for the female side in this debate, but me caring doesn't change what happens in reality on a daily basis, does it? I've been doing nothing but listening and considering your stance here. Obviously I have to consider my own biology whenever talking about both genders in this format. It's very clear women (rightfully so) are your main concern here, which means they come first for you in a discussion. Even if some if it is bias, it's perfectly understandable to me, so you should understand I'm going to challenge your opinion on certain discussions regarding men.

 

But you're main argument is men do these things because of their biology. I don't see though how that justifyies what happens.

 

 

I've never once disputed that human beings were complex. I'm simply going off of things I usually see. I'd be lying if I said the emphasis placed on sex was relatively low for men. It's be an outright lie.

 

Here is my question for you. What do you and other men want from women when you talk about how much men want sex and how much women's bodies matter and how men are going to share those opinions every chance they get?

 

 

Actually, I'm not a fan of double standards, so no way would I even entertain them. However, in your example, it's different because he's going to a strip club likely for entertainment, bachelor party, or something like that. His girlfriend is someone he's sharing his life with, so why should he be okay with her working as a stripper? Unless he's spending most of his free time in a strip club, I don't see that as a fair trade-off.

 

I am not talking about her having a career as a stripper. I am talking about her going out to strip at a club the same amount of time he would go for entertainment reasons. Perhaps she finds it fun and entertaining to dance like a man finds it fun and entertaining to watch. If a man in a relationship can go and watch other women dance naked (no touching) what is so bad about her going to dance for other men as long as they don't touch her? It's just looking right? Men are visual right? Why shouldn't she want other men to visually look at her like her man might be looking at other women? It would be entertainment either way. Sounds equal to me. And yet, most men would crap a brick if their female partner wanted to let oother men see her body dancing sexily for them. Yet men have no qualms of taking this advantage and defending going to such places even while they have girlfriends. You said, he is sharing his life with his gf so why wouldn't he be bothered by that. But that applies both ways. She is sharing her life with him, why should she be okay with his going to oggle other women for sexual etertainment?

[Cracker Jack]

The "they do it too" argument has nothing to do with a sincere attempt to see something from one side, yes even OVER the other side in the moment. You yourself even said that it probably does happen to women more then men. Yet you were ready to refocus the topic of the discussion to the classic "they do it too" argument.

 

I'm just saying, we have to be fair when discussing things like this. It wouldn't be fair for me to sit back and only consider one side of the debate. You know that and I know that. I know it happens to women more often. I never disputed that.

 

Talking about something one gender does over an other does not imply that the other gender doesn't also do it too. But I understand the knee jerk reaction and have done it myself. I just think that sometimes it impeeds addressing one side at the current time.

 

I think most people do it. I can address one side and not do it, if need be.

 

You want to act like coments about women's bodies and male bodies is on equal footing. It's not.

 

They're not. Not once have I implied as much.

 

I said you need to take a look at the topic starters (most of them are usually guys who often have problems with women) when you're considering these topics. If most of them are already dysfunctional when it comes to women, what they say hardly matters.

 

You can talk about every thread that's made about women, but when it's already established the OP isn't too keen on focusing on other qualities, what they say doesn't matter.

 

I think women are very familiar with how often men are eager to let their opinion be known about their bodies. However, that doesn't mean that it's okay or that what men say is always good or right. How about you stop with the, "if men say it oh well that's the way it is". You talk about there being two sides but you don't even want to acknowledge women in the equation unless it's their body you are talking about.

 

It's like everything is justifible because men like this or that but you don't actually want to acknowledge how that can make some women feel. I guess men's sexuality is much more important then considering women as people when it comes to their own thoughts on such thing.

 

Come on. You've seen the threads around here. You've seen the nasty comments. You've seen the way the guys here have picked on women's bodies about their weight. I don't care if height is something you can't change and weight is. It doesn't mean that just because someone has a certain feature that is changable that they get to have disparging talk made about them just because that person isn't attracted to their body.

 

Where did I say it was okay to make comments about a woman's weight, huh? Where? Nowhere. My point is the comparison makes absolutely no sense because they're so fundamentally different. You think I felt good reading how unmanly short men were perceived by women when the height topics were the "in" thing here? Or that a short man's dating value is equal to that of an obese person? Or my personal favorite, "There's no good attractive men online. Only the short, fat men message me online."

 

I don't know why you keep making it seem as if I'm promoting any of this "disparging" talk when you a) hear none of it from me, and b) see that I'm against it.

 

By the way, you were the one comparing height to breasts. You do realize that breasts can also be changed right?

 

Annnnnnd it appears you've missed the point on why the comparison was even made to begin with. Breasts being changeable has nothing to do with anything we're discussing because the breasts we're talking about in this very topic are already an optimal size to begin with.

 

The point was to reference how both are attractive traits to the opposite sex and how they garner tons of attention. You said weight is more comparable; I said it's not because there's a remedy to being overweight, no such luck with being shorter than average. Not only that, but the fact that being at a healthy weight level is almost a universal thing between men AND women. I know you think like me bringing up the other side, but for something like this, I'm not going to ignore it.

 

Yes the two are very similar. More similiar then breasts and height.

 

The only similarity is that they end with eight.

 

Sexual ideals about weight have nothing to do with caring about the health of people. You can not alawys tell how healthy someone is by their weight. Sure, if someone is morbidly obese, they are unhealthy. But I am not talking about extreme cases. I am just talking about general over-weightness.

 

Yeah, if it's noticeable enough, most people will often frown and think the worse of their situation. But....I do agree that you can't truly tell if they're unhealthy if they're only somewhat overweight.

 

There are many skinny people that eat nothing but junk and there are over weight people who engage in a regular healthy diet and exercise. I see many regular ladies at my gym that are thicker but they work out and take classes regularly. I have had a few girlfriends that had really horrible diets but where able to remain skinny. Then there is also the matter of how the kind of thinness that gets over glorified in the media isn't really healthy obtained either. We socially don't have a full grasp on healthy concepts of how weight and health go hand in hand.

 

Well, as you mentioned, most of the obsession with hollywood thinness lies at the hands of the media. Since there influence is so great, most people are going to often go for that look. Personally, I don't care what media says about anything. I do agree that there's so much more to person regardless of they weight they are. I know some people that either gain no weight from eating or lose no weight from working out, so it depends on the person.

 

I was talking about you a bit..but it was also for certain guys in general where I've seen that kind before. But I should have said "I don't care for big breasts.." instead of that you don't like them because yes, that would have been more accurate based on what you said. Sorry about misrepresenting your comments there.

 

No worries.

 

And euphenisms created about women's bodies where never meant to be purposely degrading to women or their body parts? Because when guys use such words they are trying to be respectful and cute toward women? They are not as different as you'd like them to be.

 

I wouldn't say they're trying to be degrading, but more along the lines of funny...in poor taste most of the times, of course.

 

Using names to call someone something or their body parts something aren't that far removed from one another. A euphenism is a euphenism right? Men don't use euphenisms for women's bodies because they are trying to respect women. And do men always have to respect women you might ask? They don't. But it doesn't mean when men don't that it doesn't suck.

 

Maybe. But then again, it's entirely subjective. Do you think "tits" is a euphemism? Like I said, most men admittedly do it in poor taste, but there isn't t always malicious intent behind it.

 

One is making up a name to call someone else the other is making up a name to call someone else's body. It doesn't matter that one brings him sexual pleasure and the other doesn't. Just because it makes a guy feel good to give names to women's breasts doesn't mean it makes a woman feel good.

 

Um, how they're being delivered is actually a very important part of this debate. My friend has been with his wife for six yrs, and she really has some large breasts. There are also times where he'll jokingly talk about the size of them and how out there they are when she's giving me a hug. One time he said "Put those cannonballs away! They're too dangerous!", and we all got a good laugh from that because it was hilarious. Based on what you read, was that an offensive remark about her breasts?

 

Also, why assume a man feels good because he says some stupid random name to describe breasts? Do you think this actually makes a guy feel good? Most aren't even thinking when they say these things, anyway.

 

I see. So because men like big breasts sexually, whatever they want to call them, however they want to treat a woman or talk about her body, is okay. I guess that's great for you but not so great for the person that is on the receiving end of that that is an actual person.

 

I'm not in a position to claim what is or isn't acceptable for someone to do. I think any good human should think twice before saying certain things to someone else, but since human nature is also flawed, we have to understand that things like this will happen. I already think twice before I say certain things to women, so.

 

It doesn't matter if men like big breasts Cracker Jack. Just because men like big breasts doesn't mean they get to make up names for women's bodies and say them with glee just because they like big breasts. Liking big breasts doesn't justify making up disparging names for women's body parts.

 

But the names are already made up, so that's a foregone conclusion. Do you mean it doesn't give them the right to use those names in general? I agree and disagree. I agree that you have a right to not be accepting of those names, but I also disagree that they can't say it. More people need to be mindful of the things they say. We both agree there. That's the key.

 

I know you wish it did. I know you think male sxuality justifies certain names and behaviors, but that is something I simply can't go for.

 

I don't. I never thought male sexuality justified anything. It ain't even about male sexuality. It, once again, comes down to people needing to think before they speak. Some people are just rude by nature and have no regard for anyone. Not much you can do about those people.

 

You don't live in a world where male sexuality is the the only or even most important aspect of it. Wanting to make up names for women's body parts just because a man likes them, and justifying it on that is ludicris.

 

I understand that male sexuality is often considered to be the antagonist of questionable treatment towards women.

 

You specifically targeted women and the women that are okay with such things to use it against me and how I am not okay with it. It impies that because other women may not be as bothered by it, that it was okay to call women's body parts certain names.

 

I was simply including another side to the argument. As for what my main point was--it was more along the lines of it coming down to individual taste. Some women will hate it, some will laugh at it. No way of telling without knowing the woman.

 

I am very familiar with the kind of shaming games men engage in concerning women. Such as how men go on about how "cool" women are when they point out hot chicks to them and other positive reinforcements that gives accolades to women that act more like his buddies.

 

What men are doing this? Is this actually happening to you?

 

It's just more shaming Cracker Jack. Saying someone is "uptight" is usually used negatively to describe someone. No one makes the connection that being "uptight" is a positive. If you just said, a woman that didn't like the way I talked about women when I use euphenisms to describe them wouldn't be someone who would mesh well with me is totally different then calling someone else "uptight" because they don't agree with you or laugh at how cute you are whn you use euphenisms.

 

Okay, uptight was too direct. Let's just say someone who's open to euphemisms, then. I like to joke, I like to laugh--and admittedly, this isn't always by conventional means. So yes, how I go about things would likely offend someone like you--thus, that type wouldn't mesh well with me. There. Better?

 

And the last sentence in that paragraph is more shaming. You don't get why it may bother someone (me) yet you insinuate that because it botheres me it means I'm not comfortable in my own skin. I'm not even sure how you draw the conclusion.

 

Based on how offended you get over gender based issues, such as stupid names referencing a woman' body parts, along with many other things, yes, it does make me question how comfortable you are within yourself. There's no magical reason why women (that get hit on constantly) can shake it off and go about their business like it's nothing.

 

It simply means they're comfortable in their own skin and couldn't care less about crude names that are often applied to women because they don't allow it to get to them. And I'm sorry, but you just come off as someone who's easily offended by anything men do to women. Just being honest. I could be way off, but I doubt it.

 

Because someone is not suppose to like hearing certain words used to describe their own body? And if they don't like them it means their uptight and what..your so great and evolved and well rounded because you can use all kind of euphenisms to describe a woman's body? Yeah okay.

 

You don't have to like it. Do understand that you have absolutely no control over how people conduct themselves in life. In this case, a guy calling a woman's breasts "tata's"? Yeah, you have no control over something like that. I can, however, be more mindful of things I say to women, if that helps.

 

 

Thanks, that's a sincerely nice thing to say and I had no idea.

 

You're very welcome.

 

But I do feel like I am getting a bit undermined here and getting all kind of labels attached to me.. (such as being uptight, not comfortable with my body) and other stuff because it gets annoying to see grown men talk about women's bodies in certain terms. I unfortunetly believe that men bond over talking about women derogatorly.

 

I might've added some things I shouldn't have, but I haven't allowed it to stray me away from the topic of discussion at hand.

 

 

I agree that no single individual living in the world has no control over how ohers act. That doesn't mean though that I join the crowd or stop talking about the things I think are important. Even if other people think I am silly or whatever.

 

Of course. Going with the popular crowd usually isn't the best thing to do.

 

And it doesn't mean other people, myself included, can't change seeing how others live their life. I've seen that happen. And it's happened to me. The people you surround yourself with have the possiblity to change your life. But that only happens based on your own choices.

 

You can work hard to try to change those around you, I agree. I'm talking on a more larger scale.

 

I do think one person can make a difference. I know it can feel like it can't, but I know it can and have seen how one person has made a difference and how it had a ripple affect. I also think that I don't always want to be the "reality" of what we live in. Just because other women may use words about men or women and their body parts, doesn't mean I have to live in that reality and do what they do. I can make up my own way according to how I want to live my life. And that is actually change right there.

 

You don't have to live in the reality, but as long as you know the world doesn't revolve around you and what you want, it's all good.

 

Why am I lashing out Cracker Jack? Because I have an opinion about it? Did I call men names because they use names for womens' bodies?

 

No, but you're surely jumping to conclusions about those same men. Men who you don't even know to begin with. Your mind is already made up about men who make little jokes about a woman's body.

 

I understand the reality of what we live in everyday. That doesn't mean I have to accept it or throw in the towel on my beliefs because of that. I refuse to do that.

 

No one's saying you need to accept it or give up. You do need to learn to deal with it, tho.

 

Darn straight I am offended by some of what goes on regarding how men choose to talk or interact with women. Darn straight that I think there is a lot of stuff that isn't great about how men (and women) conduct themselves with regards of the opposite sex. Darn straight I think porn is more negative then positive. But telling me I need to develope a thicker skin so that I think just like you or everyone else on these topics is really silly.

 

Or you can stay bitter (or continue coming off as if you are bitter) about the current affairs of men and women in a sexualized world instead. Whatever works for ya. Developing thicker skin is now the equivalent of thinking like me or others? If you say so...

 

While my posts certainly can be emotionally charged and passionate, I also make a lot of fine intellectual parts and I think you are ignoring that in favor of trying to paint me one way. Such as simply being emotional. When that isn't the case. I don't ust spew stuff with on argument to back it up. And while I may be sensitive, being sensitive and not having thick skin are not synonmous. I really don't get why I must always be point in the position to defend myself. I don't understand why people can't simply talk about the topic and not bring in personal commentary about me in the process.

 

Honestly, it's not hard to see bias intent within some of your posts. That's a clear sign of someone being too emotionally invested in a topic. And that's cool. I'm not going to bring it up anymore.

 

It's certianly part of it but it's not the only part I was takling about! I am not sure whaty ou think is clear now. I was not simply just talkign about men out with their woman. Although yes, that is a problem I see with men quite often.

 

So I need to be more wary about looking at a woman because of the things she possibly faces on a daily basis from other men? Whatever you say.

 

I'm sorry you are so bothered that I think men's actions should back up their words. If a man truly isn't that interested in the size of a woman's breasts, then he isn't interested in the size of a woman's breasts and he isn't going to be spending his time oggling all kinds of women for their breasts.

 

None of this is bothering me at all. But again, taking notice of something doesn't mean they're oggling. If he's "spending all of his time" placing an emphasis on women's breasts, that's a different story altogether.

 

Yes, I agree that most women get their breast size increased because they want attention. Because they see how men act and react to their breasts and decide to become more of what men pay attention to. So when I hear men say stuff like "breasts don't matter but I am going to look at big breasts", it is incredibly hypocritical. It's clear that breasts do matter. If men appreacited womens' bodies as they were in all different sizes, then so many women wouldn't feel the need to go under the knife to be something she really isn't.

 

Nope. Way off. Breasts mattering would mean the man requires his woman to have large breasts. Unless you're implying someone who takes notice of large breasts also requires them in a woman. I'm living proof of a guy who will often notice a woman with large breasts but won't hesitate to take notice of a woman with small breasts as well.

 

And let us be real, tons of women do it simply because they want to gain the attention of more men in order to feel good about themselves. It's not something they have to do. Some women have perfectly fine breasts yet still get them increased.

 

But of course, it all comes down to how men have no appreciation for a variety of body sizes (because men obviously only value the same body type. Right), which forces women to alter their body. Yep. Blame it on the men.

 

I've already pointed out that Amercia is very breasts obessed. For whatever reason, for too many men, who I personally think have been hugely influenced by outside factors, big breasts are a big deal. ANd women seeing this, have also been affected by influences as well to the extent that they will alter their bodies for what men show they like. However, this isn't the case in other countries so much that in general seem to be much more sexually open then us in America.

 

So, essentially, the obsession with breasts weren't caused by men, but outside factors instead? Good to know.

 

I'm not sure I understand this. Care to further explain?

 

I'm very reluctant to show attraction to a woman because I'm always worried they're going to assume I'm only approaching them for a chance at having sex with them. Basically, I feel like I'm limited when it comes to making my attraction for her known.

 

And where does not thinking of her except to oggle her breasts get you? Another mental image in teh good old spank-bank to pull out later? I'm not too clear what your point is. That you only treat people a certain way when you get something out of it first?

 

I'm saying I have no real obligation to someone I don't know. She has no obligation to me, either. If I approach her as a person, she's not obligated to give me her time and day. She could easily walk away and that'd be perfectly within her right. Why? Because she's a stranger and has no reason to adhere to what I want--which would be having a small chat in this case. Not a one way street, DY.

 

The only obligation I'll say that's morally expected of me is to treat her with basic human decency and not do anything that can be considered disrespectful.. That's the extent of it.

 

That's true. Thinking of women in terms of their physical looks only and not the other components that make them human couldn't possibly ever benefit men or women. It couldn't possibly foster more understanding between one another and healther relationships and interactions with women that buck the trend of just oggling them.

 

No, you're absolutely right here. Focusing on her feelings and everything else that makes her who she is very important. I guess I was just being selfish and only looking at it from my perspective when I wrote that.

 

Men have a tendency of seperating women from their own humanity. Especially when they see the sexuality of that woman. If you don't think of that person as a human being and think about how your treatment of her is influential on smaller terms, then you are pursely seeing her as just something to oggle and visually masturbate to. Not thinking of women in terms of their own humanity enables men to more easily treat women like a disassociated object.

 

That can be a defensive mechanism for some guys, tho. Not the best excuse, but from experience with friends, they've often been hurt by women, and slowly but surely became interested in women for sex and nothing more. You know what else is funny? That never stopped them from getting women. Me? The guy who's always considered their feelings? Not even close. But it's okay. I'm a man.

 

When men actually begin to take in the whole picture, the real whole picture and not just look at her body parts and think "wow, awesome, I like that", that means he actually has to think about her as another complext human being.

 

What can I say? Some men find this sort of thinking complicated. It requires a total rewiring of ones mind. As much as you'd love for this to actually take place, so much as to get into making this realistic for certain men.

 

Understanding that women are more then walking breasts and actually treating women as more then walking breasts appear to be two different things. Mens' ability to disassociated women's sexuality from her humanity is actually a really big issue in my opinion.

 

But again, this goes back to certain men needing to undergo a drastic change to how they see women and the world. I agree that something like this poses a significant problem in society nowadays.

 

And I am sure you don't care about all the other women that don't fit into the visualness norms you keep reinforcing is what men want the most and how they don't get hit on or even thought about. they get passed right by for the shiner model.

 

Considering I'm more attracted to women who don't stand out (AKA what people consider average women) to every other guy, I'd say you're 100% wrong there. I do care. And I feel sorry for them, but I'm not responsible for what men are attracted to. None of that is my fault.

 

Because like you said, men want big breasts for the most part and that's just the way it is. You don't much seem to care about how that affects other women along with women with big breasts. Because that's "jsut the way it is" remember? Those where your own words.

 

That's far from indicating that I don't care. More like, I understand how the world works and not going to pretend like I have all the answers to things that essentially have no answer to them to begin with.

 

Anytime I voiced something about the topic you came back quite regularly with the attitude that I just need to suck it up because "that's just the way it is".

 

Maybe because it's a vital point. As bad as it sounds, there are things in life we have to deal with, regardless of our feelings on the matter. Does that mean you can't speak your mind on? Not at all. But at the end of the day, you're still not going to have an impact on those people.

 

Okay, then treat women less like a human being and don't consider her feelings. What do you want me to say? Caring about how you treat a woman stops you from getting what you want. I guess that's justification enough for men to treat women anyway they please then.

 

I've done nothing but treat women with respect my entire life, just about, and never really been much of a crude joker. I don't plan on changing that anytime soon, even if it means less success. Just giving you some insight on a guy who's put a woman's feelings first more times than I could count in my life.

 

Oh okay..so which is it? First it's all about how most men want this and that's what men are going to do and male sexuality overrules everything else now it's guys are really great that think about other things? It's like your argument changes on where it best benefits you. All you did for the first part of this post was talk about how this is what most guys wanted and that it was "just how it was"..now it's, "there are tons of guys who treat women well". Good lord.

 

There is no "which is it" here. Understand that there are going to be guys who are only thinking about having sex with women, but also understand that there are many guys who aren't thinking about sex as their #1 goal and more often than not are looking for qualities that go deeper than beauty and sex.

 

And I don't think people should get away with using the "biology" bit because human beings are a lot more then the function of their sexual organs. There are many more emotions, jsut as powerful, then just sex. So it's really foolish to justify everything on an over simplified version of sexuality and biology and not account for our other natural biologies or feelings as human beings.

 

I don't disagree here, but sexuality and biological traits are still very significant, whether you want to believe it or not. There are actual scientific studies on these topics. Of course you can't claim it has an impact on everything gender related because then that would be silly.

 

Why do you assume that I don't already do this? Strengthen my own boundries? Just because I talk about these things with honesty doesn't mean I think things are going to just all the sudden change. But I think it's important to be aware of these things and discuss them.

 

I've been aware of this for quite a longtime. It's fine to discuss them, but there has to be some sort of underlying goal in all of this, unless it's just awareness?

 

That's why I am not simply just talking about "pretending" to treat women well.

 

More times than not, "perfect behavior" towards women is considered to be the early steps of manipulation. That's why there's always so much deception. So, you might think the guy that's more intuned with your feelings is the perfect guy, whereas the guy who's more of a crude jokester is the more genuine one when everything is said and done.

 

But you're main argument is men do these things because of their biology. I don't see though how that justifyies what happens.

 

I already said the male's biological traits does. not. justify. a. damn. thing! I actually think it's a combination of how some men were raised, society's point of view of women, and a male's biological nature are apart of the reasons why these things happen as often as they do.

 

Here is my question for you. What do you and other men want from women when you talk about how much men want sex and how much women's bodies matter and how men are going to share those opinions every chance they get?

 

If they're going to openly talk about those things to women, I'm not expecting you to meet them with a happy go lucky attitude. I think it'd be perfectly fine for a woman to make her standards be known and basically let the man know in so many ways she's not going to entertain

 

I am not talking about her having a career as a stripper. I am talking about her going out to strip at a club the same amount of time he would go for entertainment reasons. Perhaps she finds it fun and entertaining to dance like a man finds it fun and entertaining to watch. If a man in a relationship can go and watch other women dance naked (no touching) what is so bad about her going to dance for other men as long as they don't touch her? It's just looking right? Men are visual right?

 

It's different because she's actually putting on a display for tons of men while she's attached to someone. A guy going to a strip club once in a blue moon is nowhere near comparable to his woman working as a part-time stripper for the thrills. Also, that's what nightclubs are for: to dance.

 

Why shouldn't she want other men to visually look at her like her man might be looking at other women? It would be entertainment either way. Sounds equal to me. And yet, most men would crap a brick if their female partner wanted to let oother men see her body dancing sexily for them. Yet men have no qualms of taking this advantage and defending going to such places even while they have girlfriends. You said, he is sharing his life with his gf so why wouldn't he be bothered by that. But that applies both ways. She is sharing her life with him, why should she be okay with his going to oggle other women for sexual etertainment?

 

Because they're actually in a relationship with her. Unless that guy is showing his parts off to those same women in the strip club, how is this even comparable? You said most things between men and women aren't equal. This is one of them in my opinion, of course.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I think it's a little silly when adults can't say the word breast. Maybe there is a time and place for euphenisms. But it seems like hearing the actual word "breast" is more rare then saying the euphenism.

 

Well, I am very capable of both saying and typing the word "BREAST." See?

 

Don't you think it might get boring to use the same word exclusively, though, when there are so many colorful slang terms we can enjoy (which I don't consider "euphemisms" for the word "BREAST.")

 

I do have to take exception to you likening calling boobs - oops, I mean "BREASTS" something like "headlights" with gay bashing. Whether you like the term or not, it is used for a body part - not a whole human being in order to disparage them. Calling women "cum dumpsters" is on the same level as gay bashing, but calling bazooms "the milk bar" is not.

 

By the way - what about manboobs? Is it wrong to call them that? Or "moobs"? Must we call them "man BREASTS"?

[SincereOnlineGuy]

I know that not all men love big breasts. Some prefer smaller ones, others prefer small ones in general, but I am curious as to how true the whole "men and breasts" phenomena really is.

 

If you could take your current or past girlfriends and add a cup size or two to their breasts, would you do it? Would you enjoy it more? I don't mean that their smaller breasts took away from her overall attraction, but would larger breasts add to the attraction?

 

I am a B-cup and have never bothered to even wonder about my breasts, but I constantly see movies or comics about men being completely blown away by large breasts and not being able to pay attention to anything else.

 

Overall, is this really the case? Or is this just an exaggeration to show how men are visual and appreciate lots of "female"?

 

 

If you're the one with B-cups... then you should stick with B-cups...

 

 

The alternative, being some variety of "boobs on a stick", just throws everything off around your life. While (implants) might alter your priorities and path, they won't likely make either any better.

[Mme. Chaucer]

By the way - what about manboobs? Is it wrong to call them that? Or "moobs"? Must we call them "man BREASTS"?

 

Okay, if we're all really adults here, we will abandon all of the above terms and use "Gynecomastia" exclusively. Or else we're immature.

 

Okay?

[Els]

Well, I am very capable of both saying and typing the word "BREAST." See?

 

Don't you think it might get boring to use the same word exclusively, though, when there are so many colorful slang terms we can enjoy (which I don't consider "euphemisms" for the word "BREAST.")

 

I do have to take exception to you likening calling boobs - oops, I mean "BREASTS" something like "headlights" with gay bashing. Whether you like the term or not, it is used for a body part - not a whole human being in order to disparage them. Calling women "cum dumpsters" is on the same level as gay bashing, but calling bazooms "the milk bar" is not.

 

By the way - what about manboobs? Is it wrong to call them that? Or "moobs"? Must we call them "man BREASTS"?

 

I personally enjoy calling penises 'schlongs'. Such a nice ring to the term. :laugh:

[Mme. Chaucer]

I personally enjoy calling penises 'schlongs'. Such a nice ring to the term. :laugh:

 

Is this because you are secretly terrified of saying PENIS ???

[xxoo]

I personally enjoy calling penises 'schlongs'. Such a nice ring to the term. :laugh:

 

I prefers weiners or weenies. Wee willy winkie. Anything with a "w"

 

Is it really uncommon to hear the word breast? "Breast Cancer Awareness" is seemingly everywhere--even on food packaging.

 

When it comes to being proper, we use proper words. When it comes to being playful, we use playful words. I can't imagine whispering in my lover's ear about his "scrotum", for example. Balls will do

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

When it comes to being proper, we use proper words. When it comes to being playful, we use playful words. I can't imagine whispering in my lover's ear about his "scrotum", for example. Balls will do

 

Talking about GONADS is very erotic, though.

[Krytie TV]

Also, OP, remember that a significant percentage of men don't really care about breasts. I'm an ass man and always have been. Ass comes first for me. That said, I have found Bs to be the most "fitting" size. Any bigger and thet're destined to sag with age or children (just sayin').

[joystickd]

I personally enjoy calling penises 'schlongs'. Such a nice ring to the term. :laugh:

I am so offended right not that you would use such derogatory terms for male genitalia.

[joystickd]

Also, OP, remember that a significant percentage of men don't really care about breasts. I'm an ass man and always have been. Ass comes first for me. That said, I have found Bs to be the most "fitting" size. Any bigger and thet're destined to sag with age or children (just sayin').

Billy Gunn Entrance Music (Ass Man) - YouTube

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I'm not sure why people feel the need to make purposely mocking and antagonistic remarks because they simply disagree with another poster.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I'm just saying, we have to be fair when discussing things like this. It wouldn't be fair for me to sit back and only consider one side of the debate. You know that and I know that. I know it happens to women more often. I never disputed that.

 

I’ve just experienced too many discussions where points get avoided in favor of consistently using the “they do it too” argument to over shadow the actual point being made specific to a specific group.

 

I said you need to take a look at the topic starters (most of them are usually guys who often have problems with women) when you're considering these topics. If most of them are already dysfunctional when it comes to women, what they say hardly matters.

 

Sometimes they do appear to be men that struggle. Yet there are other guys that will come in and chime in that’s opinions don’t deviate too far from what the original guy has said and they aren’t all dysfunctional men when this happens.

 

 

Where did I say it was okay to make comments about a woman's weight, huh? Where? Nowhere. My point is the comparison makes absolutely no sense because they're so fundamentally different. You think I felt good reading how unmanly short men were perceived by women when the height topics were the "in" thing here? Or that a short man's dating value is equal to that of an obese person? Or my personal favorite, "There's no good attractive men online. Only the short, fat men message me online."

 

Cracker Jack, I didn’t say you said it was okay to make comments about a woman’s weight. All I said is that women’s weight is often compared to men’s height. And there are way more topics of discussion about women's weight around here then men's height. And usually when there isa topic about men's height, it's sometimes started by a man himself.

 

And I don’t really remember hearing women say men that where short where unmanly. Infact, there seems to be a lot more effort on the women’s part in those thread to positively reinforce men then there are when threads crop up about women’s bodies or ages.

 

Annnnnnd it appears you've missed the point on why the comparison was even made to begin with. Breasts being changeable has nothing to do with anything we're discussing because the breasts we're talking about in this very topic are already an optimal size to begin with.

 

They why did you say that height isn’t comparable to weight because you can’t change height and you can change weight? You can also change breasts! I am not sure what your point is now.

 

The point was to reference how both are attractive traits to the opposite sex and how they garner tons of attention. You said weight is more comparable; I said it's not because there's a remedy to being overweight, no such luck with being shorter than average. Not only that, but the fact that being at a healthy weight level is almost a universal thing between men AND women. I know you think like me bringing up the other side, but for something like this, I'm not going to ignore it.

 

I have never seen a woman ogle a man simply because he was tall in all my years alive. Not like I see men ogle women’s breasts. Even men that claim that such things aren’t even important to them.

 

I wouldn't say they're trying to be degrading, but more along the lines of funny...in poor taste most of the times, of course.

 

We will have to disagree on this point. I think men get off on objectifying women. Part of objectifying them is seeing them as a dehumanized object and degradement on some level. A lot of the words men seem to have to call women’s body parts seem to be a way to disassociate her as a person from her body. I don’t think men are naive enough to not know that the words they choose to use to describe a woman’s body are potentially objectifying of her. Maybe they do think it’s funny. Ddoes thinking it’s funny make it okay then?

 

Maybe. But then again, it's entirely subjective. Do you think "tits" is a euphemism? Like I said, most men admittedly do it in poor taste, but there isn't t always malicious intent behind it.

 

I do think “tits” is a euphemism. I agree there isn’t always malicious intent behind it. I just wish men would make more of a attempt to pay attention to the dialogue they use when talking about women whether they are in the company of women or men alike. Just because there isn’t malicious attempt doesn’t mean it’s not tiring to hear men talk like that nonetheless.

 

I never said men were horrible because they used euphemisms to talk about women’s bodies. It just gets kind of annoying to hear grown men use such words more then they can actually say the word breasts. There are some euphemisms that bother me more then others. I really hate when women’s breasts get called “fun bags”. It’s much more of an offensive term to me then something like saying “boobies”.

 

Um, how they're being delivered is actually a very important part of this debate. My friend has been with his wife for six yrs, and she really has some large breasts. There are also times where he'll jokingly talk about the size of them and how out there they are when she's giving me a hug. One time he said "Put those cannonballs away! They're too dangerous!", and we all got a good laugh from that because it was hilarious. Based on what you read, was that an offensive remark about her breasts?

 

Seems kind of offensive to me. *shrug* She wasn’t offended by it but if I heard a guy talk like that I’d be like “WTF, that’s your wife Dude.” But since no one in your situation was offended by it, I guess your good right?

 

Also, why assume a man feels good because he says some stupid random name to describe breasts? Do you think this actually makes a guy feel good? Most aren't even thinking when they say these things, anyway.

 

Didn’t you say men use such names because they find the entertaining and fun and funny? Yes. I do think it makes a guy feel good.

 

And I would agree that some guys don’t really think about what they say. That is why that’s all I really asked for when you asked me about what I thought men should do about it. That men be aware of the type of dialogue they use. What is the harm in that?

 

I'm not in a position to claim what is or isn't acceptable for someone to do. I think any good human should think twice before saying certain things to someone else, but since human nature is also flawed, we have to understand that things like this will happen. I already think twice before I say certain things to women, so.

 

I agree with you there.

 

I understand that male sexuality is often considered to be the antagonist of questionable treatment towards women.

 

Sometimes yes. There are a lot of great things about male sexuality and then there are a lot of things that are really hard to deal with and I am often left with the impression that women are left to deal with these things while we justify men not doing their own personal self work because of comments like, “that’s just how it is” or that men aren’t self aware enough to know what they are saying when they are speaking about women and their bodies.Or that it's okay because men get horny and are visual.

 

What men are doing this? Is this actually happening to you?

 

A lot of guys do that. Yes that’s happened to me.

 

Okay, uptight was too direct. Let's just say someone who's open to euphemisms, then. I like to joke, I like to laugh--and admittedly, this isn't always by conventional means. So yes, how I go about things would likely offend someone like you--thus, that type wouldn't mesh well with me. There. Better?

 

Yes much better. Thank you very much because I appreciated this.

 

I like to joke too but senses of humor vary as much as people do. Dude, I actually have a pretty wicked sense of humor.

 

Based on how offended you get over gender based issues, such as stupid names referencing a woman' body parts, along with many other things, yes, it does make me question how comfortable you are within yourself. There's no magical reason why women (that get hit on constantly) can shake it off and go about their business like it's nothing.

 

It simply means they're comfortable in their own skin and couldn't care less about crude names that are often applied to women because they don't allow it to get to them. And I'm sorry, but you just come off as someone who's easily offended by anything men do to women. Just being honest. I could be way off, but I doubt it.

 

i got my concerns about how men treat women. If you want to tie it up to it being just about me being offended with no baselessness, you can. But I think the topic is more complicated then that. I don’t think one’s ability to say euphemisms for men or women reflects someone that is necessarily more at ease with themselves or their sexuality. I’m not too sure how you drew that connection. I know that I can get very serious at times and I take things to heart but I don’t think that means that my point of view isn’t valid or that I am somehow less comfortable with myself just because I see these things differently.

 

 

You don't have to like it. Do understand that you have absolutely no control over how people conduct themselves in life. In this case, a guy calling a woman's breasts "tata's"? Yeah, you have no control over something like that. I can, however, be more mindful of things I say to women, if that helps

.

 

Where did I ever say I have control over how other people conduct themselves???? I never said I had control over what other people did. All I did was say that I get tired of hearing grown men call breasts “big melons”.

 

I might've added some things I shouldn't have, but I haven't allowed it to stray me away from the topic of discussion at hand.

 

No, you’re right, you haven’t. We’ve had a pretty good discussion Cracker Jack despite disagreeing on a lot of things and some little things here and there. I’ve enjoyed it. You’ve been pretty fair minded and respectful. And we both added stuff we could have avoided. That doesn’t just apply to you. But I do standby what I said in that quote.

 

You can work hard to try to change those around you, I agree. I'm talking on a more larger scale.

 

But change doesn’t have to be on a larger scale to be worthwhile, positive and important.

 

You don't have to live in the reality, but as long as you know the world doesn't revolve around you and what you want, it's all good.

 

The world revolves around no one. But we all got a mind about how we think the world should be nonetheless.

 

No, but you're surely jumping to conclusions about those same men. Men who you don't even know to begin with. Your mind is already made up about men who make little jokes about a woman's body.

 

I have drawn conclusions about men based on their actions and my own life experiences and the information I can draw and process from my own head that lead me to a certain conclusion. That much is true.

 

No one's saying you need to accept it or give up. You do need to learn to deal with it, tho.

 

Why do you assume I don’t deal with it? Because I speak up about it?

 

Or you can stay bitter (or continue coming off as if you are bitter) about the current affairs of men and women in a sexualized world instead. Whatever works for ya. Developing thicker skin is now the equivalent of thinking like me or others? If you say so...

 

It is when you tell me I need to develop a thicker skin so that I ignore things you want me to ignore.

 

I am not even going to address the bitter comments because that is something you’ve clearly made your mind up on and I am tired of being evaluated in ways that other people aren't simply because of my opinions.

 

Honestly, it's not hard to see bias intent within some of your posts. That's a clear sign of someone being too emotionally invested in a topic. And that's cool. I'm not going to bring it up anymore.

 

Well no offense but we ALL got “bias intent” here and I am no different then every other person here in that regard. Don’t attempt to paint the picture that this board is made up of egalitarian people and then non-egalitarian me.

 

 

So I need to be more wary about looking at a woman because of the things she possibly faces on a daily basis from other men? Whatever you say.

 

No. You need to just be ware of your own dialogue and words and actions because of you as a singular man. That's all. You are not responsible for other men.

 

All I am saying is that men should be aware of how they treat and talk about women. Even when they are by themselves with no other women watching or with their male friends. I am not telling you how you should or shouldn’t behave.

 

 

Nope. Way off. Breasts mattering would mean the man requires his woman to have large breasts. Unless you're implying someone who takes notice of large breasts also requires them in a woman. I'm living proof of a guy who will often notice a woman with large breasts but won't hesitate to take notice of a woman with small breasts as well.

 

All I am saying is that if a man really doesn’t find a feature all that important, he isn’t going to be ogling it more times then not.

 

And let us be real, tons of women do it simply because they want to gain the attention of more men in order to feel good about themselves. It's not something they have to do. Some women have perfectly fine breasts yet still get them increased.

 

I totally agree and I think this is a real shame! They see men ogling bigger breasts , or looking at them, and they naturally draw the conclusions that this is what men want from women’s bodies.

 

But of course, it all comes down to how men have no appreciation for a variety of body sizes (because men obviously only value the same body type. Right), which forces women to alter their body. Yep. Blame it on the men.

 

I am not simply blaming men. I believe women AND men both play their parts. In all honesty, I wish more women had more respect and liking for their god given bodies then trying to get things implanted in them to make them more attractive to lustful stares from men.

[joystickd]

 

 

I am not simply blaming men. I believe women AND men both play their parts. In all honesty, I wish more women had more respect and liking for their god given bodies then trying to get things implanted in them to make them more attractive to lustful stares from men.

I thought the things implanted in them was kind of funny lol. Sometimes your statements do sound like an attack on men and more than just me thinks so. Hell I wouldn't get mad if a woman call my penis a schlong, BBC, anaconda, or any other euphemism for penis. Imagine how fun talking dirty would be if we all were technical. Hey baby as i kiss your mammary glands I slowly move over your abdominal area then I lick your vulva and then stimulate your clitoris. I will finally insert my penis into your vagina. i bet it touches your Gräfenberg Spot. I mean honestly who wants to talk like that

[joystickd]

Also, OP, remember that a significant percentage of men don't really care about breasts. I'm an ass man and always have been. Ass comes first for me. That said, I have found Bs to be the most "fitting" size. Any bigger and thet're destined to sag with age or children (just sayin').

Hey! Check out the Twerk Team since you are a butt man. TheOfficialtwerkteam - YouTube

[Cracker Jack]

DY, I can honestly say. I totally understand where you're coming from. I was being narrow-minded about this, and just choosing to believe "you were being bitter and making a big deal out of nothing", but I never really took the time to seriously think about how euphemisms and many other things can affect a woman in today's world.

 

This was a pretty cool debate, and now I feel like I'm going to see things in a different light. I do believe the world would be much better if people were more mindful and took people's feelings into consideration before making their next move.

 

Also, I want to apologize for the "bitter, grow thicker skin" comments. They were totally uncalled for and just tactless. You're pretty passionate about women in today's society, and that's commendable, not bitter.

 

So, overall, very good points on your end. Thanks for having this discussion with me... I feel like I've learned a lot from it.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Cracker Jack, you've humbled me. Thank you for your kindness. We both had some good points and I really liked the way you kept the discussion going. I felt it was a honest debate more times the not. It's a two way street and I've also learned from this discussion with you and I also want to say "thank you" for having it with me and digging through some of my over zealousness to see what lies underneath.