Men and breasts. Is it true?

[Leopard]

how long were you together and why is he an ex?

 

We were together for about 9 months. I broke up with him because, in short, he's a psycho.

[Els]

I agree. How many threads do we see on LS that are about the male body and what women want it to be and how it should be this or that or women posting pictures of hot guys. Not nearly as many that crop up about the female body. We don't see as many derogatory ephunisms for the male body. How many men have talked about penis size? How many men want to be disparaged based on penis size or hear women make up derogatory names for guys with smalle penises? But this is okay to do to women..small breasts = "mosqetio bites" Big breats = "fun bags". Eithe rway you slice it it's really off putting. And then when you try to get guys to be truly open and understanding about this subject it ALWAYS ALWAYS comes down to, "I'm a guy! Of coures I notice this! I'm horny! It's okay! It's okay to tell women their breasts are mosqetio bites or funbags because i'm a guy and I like it!"

 

I'm not sure if you noticed, but IME it's mostly only the very immature men who have either very little experience with women or a huge line of short failed relationships, that do the bolded. A glance through this thread will show this to you, very clearly. The men who say they don't do this aren't necessarily LYING, you know. Men aren't all the same. Just because some are more vocal and, well, noticeable doesn't make them representative of all men.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Cracker Jack

Well, personally, I never went along with the "I do this because I'm a man, cot damn it!" stance. I know a few guys who say they cheat because it's apart of their "biology", and they can't help it. I just think stuff like that sounds downright stupid.

 

I honestly can't speak for men, only myself. At the end of the day, there's going to be guys who'll only want to meet a woman and get to know her because she has big melons, or big lips, etc. Me? What would make me enthusiastic to meeting a woman is a warm personality, and cute feet of course:cool:.

 

I look at women as women, and never (even in my bitter moments) have looked at them as anything aside from that, or ever thought their assets is what defined them. I think about sex a lot, but I also think about many other things, too. I love and respect women. That's pretty much how it is for me.

 

Okay, that's great, but it doesn't address saying you will stare at/oggle big breasts just because they are there and not expect women to take in the information men are non-verbally communicating by such actions.

 

Also, really..."big melons"? What are we 12? Why can't adult men just call breasts, breasts?

[123321]

Why can't adult men just call breasts, breasts?

 

We have code-names for everything, hoonannies are not anything special.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

That's what you say. My experience suggests otherwise. Women generally do not like nice guys (and I'm talking genuinely nice guys, not stereotypical "nice guys" who act nice trying to get laid). Women overwhelmingly prefer men who are aggressive, dominant, competitive and tough. These are characteristics of an alpha male, not those of a nice guy (and no, you can't be both).

 

Huh, why can't a man be both?

 

I think women DO like some amount of aggressive, structure and leadership in a man. But here is the thing most men miss. Women want good men. Over any other archetype described. Women want good men. Not insensitive dominant guys that think little of them or pleading guys begging for table scrapes. There is a balance that comes into play between men that possive leadership skills and kindness. But it's a balance that a lot of men miss. They either go to one end of the spectrum to the other. And then they blame women for their inability to find balance between these two opposite sides. So yes, it's compeltely possibely for a man to be kind and giving AND aggressive and leadership based.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

We have code-names for everything, hoonannies are not anything special.

 

I will ask again, why can grown men not just call breasts, breasts? If we were so sexually evolved you'd think this would be more of a mastered skill. Being able to actually call body parts by their rightful name.

[123321]

I will ask again, why can grown men not just call breasts, breasts? If we were so sexually evolved you'd think this would be more of a mastered skill. Being able to actually call body parts by their rightful name.

 

For the same reason we don't use penis in conversations and we call a car "my wheels" instead of "my Mercedes-Benz C350". On planet Vulcan I'm sure you would feel right at home but here on Earth we are a little playful sometimes.

[Cracker Jack]

Okay, that's great, but it doesn't address saying you will stare at/oggle big breasts just because they are there and not expect women to take in the information men are non-verbally communicating by such actions.

 

Also, really..."big melons"? What are we 12? Why can't adult men just call breasts, breasts?

 

First off, you need to stop taking things so seriously. Really. One of my favorite shows constantly makes the reference and I bit on it to add some light to the conversation. Big deal. If it bothers you that much, I won't say it anymore. Not even going to get into the the "minor" jab you tried to throw my way.

 

Secondly, I already mentioned that I don't "oggle" at big breasts; I merely glance at them for a few seconds because they physically stand out to me, like a woman's feet. I notice them, but immediately focus on what's actually important, like her body language.

 

Like height, it merely stands out the most firsthand which is why it's so easy to consistently draw attention from people just as it is with breasts. It also doesn't help that those things are desirable among both sexes (Yes, big breasts and height are very important in terms of attraction for many people). After awhile, it doesn't matter (for me, after the first glance. I am not speaking for other men) because those aren't the qualities I care for in a woman.

 

I'm not going to apologize for how I look at women because I've never violated them with my actions--unless there's some unwritten rule saying I can't look or something? Perhaps your question is best suited for men who drool uncontrollably and can't take their eyes off them, because that guy certainly has his head in the breasts, not me. Or am I part of everything that's wrong with the world when it comes to treatment of women in society, too?

 

I don't expect women to or not to take certain messages from visual attention they receive. Everything is a case-by-case scenario and they only have their intuition to go on. If they believe those guys (or assume someone like me) glance at their breasts because they're being telekinetically told the guy just wants to bang them and nothing more, that's on them.

 

If they're not a woman who's going to assume a guy just wants to bang them because he acknowledges a body part that happens to garner their attention(which has been going on forever for both men and women. Breasts are only a puzzle to this), good for them for not jumping to conclusions about someone they don't know.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Cracker Jack

[SteveC80]

Huh, why can't a man be both?

 

I think women DO like some amount of aggressive, structure and leadership

 

lol sounds lie you want a father figure or drill sergeant

 

What grown up needs another one to give them structure? thats what you give your child

[Mme. Chaucer]

I'm not even a guy or a lesbian and I'll take notice if a woman with gigantic bazooms walks by me. It's not a serious commentary on the condition of our society when that happens.

[Radu]

I just want men to be more aware of how they treat and view women then to just write it off as okay/healthy/right behavior. Yes, noticing other people CAN be sexually healthy. But it doesn't mean it's mentally or emotionally healthy for that other person. I am not saying you should never again look at someone you find attractive. I would just like to see men have some self awareness and pay attention to how they look at women and how often they engage in it. That's all. I'm not asking men to stop looking all the time. Just be aware of what they are doing and not just justify everyting to being a guy.

 

The problem is that your post/threads are only aimed at men, while everything you write can be interpreted gender neutral.

 

Your posts in this thread [and others started by you with men-woman relationships] are touting a PC guideline, yet only when it concerns women; why not a gender neutral PC guideline, or is that too much to ask ?

 

You don't want ppl to notice you when you wear sexy stuff down the street ?

Wear a burqa, regardless of your gender.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Cracker Jack

First off, you need to stop taking things so seriously. Really. One of my favorite shows constantly makes the reference and I bit on it to add some light to the conversation. Big deal. If it bothers you that much, I won't say it anymore. Not even going to get into the the "minor" jab you tried to throw my way.

 

Maybe I shouldn't take things so seriously. And maybe you should take them more seriously. Stop acting like it's so out of hand for a woman to be annoyed when parts of her body are given funny names.

 

Lets be honest Cracker Jack. Men are not the subject of the kind of name calling and scrutiny women are subjected to when it comes to their bodies. There are not nearly as many different names for parts of men's bodies as there seem to be for women. You will not hear women as often use these names as often you will hear men use them for women's bodies.

 

You keep comparing breasts to height. Most women don't go around making up degrading names for short guys or tall guys. Some women may like tall guys over short guys, but they aren't making up disparging names for either group. I'm tired of hearing grown men say things like "melons", "jugs" or the dreaded "funbags". You don't mind that men say that? Fine. Great. Good for you. It's easier for you because what do you care if you call women's breasts "big melons". No skin off your back. It's like someone not gay making fun of someone that is gay and giving them a funny-disparging name. Like Twinkle Toes, which I've heard people use to laugh and describe someone gay.

 

I get that you and other guys find those euphemisms entertaining. Great. good for you. But when you are a woman, it gets tiring hearing and seeing all the "wink, wink, nudge, nudge, aren't we men great when we say things like "melons..haha your so funny man." moments. They are breasts. I would hope that men could manage to say that at least sometimes. It seems to me that a lot of guys simply aren't as comfortable saying the word breasts as they are certain euphemisms that have become popular through men talking among themselves or male entertainment.

 

 

By the way, I wasn't trying to throw a jab your way, I'm not sure where I did that but if it came across that way I do apologize for that.

 

I'm not going to apologize for how I look at women because I've never violated them with my actions--unless there's some unwritten rule saying I can't look or something? Perhaps your question is best suited for men who drool uncontrollably and can't take their eyes off them, because that guy certainly has his head in the breasts, not me. Or am I part of everything that's wrong with the world when it comes to treatment of women in society, too?

 

Who said you couldn't look? That didn't have any part of the discussion. But you forget who your looking at has another side of it and they are allowed to their opinions on this topic as well. Now some women won't care, some women will love looks. But for others it's not always fun being leered at for your body parts. And it's not always fun being out with men and seeing them leer at other body parts then talk about how much they don't really like that. Okay, if you don't like it, then why would you even give it attention? I don't get it.

 

I don't expect women to or not to take certain messages from visual attention they receive. Everything is a case-by-case scenario and they only have their intuition to go on. If they believe those guys (or assume someone like me) glance at their breasts because they're being telekinetically told the guy just wants to bang them and nothing more, that's on them.

 

Whether you like it or not, looking at a woman's body parts and summing them up is going to send a message. And no, since women can't read minds, they are going to go for the most logical conclusion. The most logical conclusion isn't, "he must really like me as a person."The most logical conclusion is that man is thinking of her in terms of her body. You forget that all day long men are always talking about how "visual" they are and how they just love/need/can't help themselves not to look. Our own boyfriends tell us this, the media tells us this, men here tell us this all the time. Now it's you respect women by looking at their body parts? And that's a woman's fault if she thinks you just want to bang her? How about some accountability for your own stuff Cracker Jack. If you want to give a woman a certain message, then do the actions that give that message.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Huh, why can't a man be both?

 

I think women DO like some amount of aggressive, structure and leadership

 

lol sounds lie you want a father figure or drill sergeant

 

What grown up needs another one to give them structure? thats what you give your child

 

Actually, structure is what happens in most long term committed relationships from both participants. Relationships can only be built up on a firm foundation. Structure can come across many different ways. While I don't think women want "father figures" or "drill sergeants", saying they like men with leadership skills, structure and one that is aggressive doesn't imply anything close to wanting a daddy.

[123321]

Men are not the subject of the kind of name calling and scrutiny women are subjected to when it comes to their bodies.

 

No, the microscope comes out for men when it comes to career success and lifestyle choices, but the microscope comes out for both genders.

[Cracker Jack]

Maybe I shouldn't take things so seriously. And maybe you should take them more seriously. Stop acting like it's so out of hand for a woman to be annoyed when parts of her body are given funny names.

 

Yeah, you're right perhaps I'm a bit insensitive. I apologize.

 

Lets be honest Cracker Jack. Men are not the subject of the kind of name calling and scrutiny women are subjected to when it comes to their bodies. There are not nearly as many different names for parts of men's bodies as there seem to be for women. You will not hear women as often use these names as often you will hear men use them for women's bodies.

 

Maybe not on the same level, but best believe women do their fair share of using derogatory terms when it comes to men. I've been around so many women who constantly went on and on about the "pig in the blanket", "pencil dikk", "baby weewee", etc. But we're men, so it's at the bottom of the totem pole, I'm sure. I've heard an equal amount of insults from both genders. No reason to pretend like this doesn't happen.

 

You keep comparing breasts to height. Most women don't go around making up degrading names for short guys or tall guys. Some women may like tall guys over short guys, but they aren't making up disparging names for either group.

 

Gotta disagree with you there. I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen women claim they wouldn't date a short guy because he's full of dat "short man syndrome", or he's a walking "Napoleon complex" in the making because everything he does outweighs his height. Not to mention all of the ones who believe shortness implies limited masculinity. So yeah, keep believing that.

 

The reason why I'm comparing the two is because both are very desirable traits for both genders, which means more times than not, they're going to garner undivided attention from a man or woman.

 

I'm tired of hearing grown men say things like "melons", "jugs" or the dreaded "funbags". You don't mind that men say that? Fine. Great. Good for you. It's easier for you because what do you care if you call women's breasts "big melons". No skin off your back. It's like someone not gay making fun of someone that is gay and giving them a funny-disparging name. Like Twinkle Toes, which I've heard people use to laugh and describe someone gay.

 

What kinda comparison is that? A straight guy making fun of a gay guy is the equivalent of a playful name regarding women's breasts? Are you serious? Have you never heard other women describe their own breasts with one of the mentioned names or another funny codename? I have many times. Surely there most be a reason why those women don't make a big deal of the nicknames, eh?

 

I get that you and other guys find those euphemisms entertaining. Great. good for you. But when you are a woman, it gets tiring hearing and seeing all the "wink, wink, nudge, nudge, aren't we men great when we say things like "melons..haha your so funny man." moments. They are breasts. I would hope that men could manage to say that at least sometimes. It seems to me that a lot of guys simply aren't as comfortable saying the word breasts as they are certain euphemisms that have become popular through men talking among themselves or male entertainment.

 

I don't even think it's that. I just think certain people get accustomed to making references to certain things. Personally I can refer to them as breasts without any issue at all, and I'd likely never go beyond that if I'm actually communicating with a woman; especially if I knew she was so uptight about things and found it hard to laugh at something that, in the grand scheme of things, isn't even a big deal.

 

Also, please stop with the "as a woman, everything is dark and terrible" stuff. It's quite tiring. You don't see me whining about not fitting into society's view of men as a tall, dark, and handsome man, so please, stop thinking about all the negative perks that comes with being a woman. Damn. Develop thicker skin or something.

 

I understand demonizing men for leering at women is the cool thing to do, but it's not only misguided, but also infantile. Men look, women look. Why is everything men do blown up to such ridiculous proportions on here?

 

Who said you couldn't look? That didn't have any part of the discussion. But you forget who your looking at has another side of it and they are allowed to their opinions on this topic as well. Now some women won't care, some women will love looks. But for others it's not always fun being leered at for your body parts. And it's not always fun being out with men and seeing them leer at other body parts then talk about how much they don't really like that. Okay, if you don't like it, then why would you even give it attention? I don't get it.

 

They don't have to like something to give it some sort of attention. If a woman has very large breasts, some guys (and women) are just going to look because they're amazed at the size. It doesn't really mean anything other than that. Are you dating these men who do this when you're out?

 

Also, while you have actually said "it's fine to look", it's clear your entire message promotes anything but. Why, or rather, how do you suppose we're supposed to take a woman's feelings into consideration? I understand that staring is rude, but I don't know the woman. If I'm out and about in the town and see a beautiful woman with nice sized breasts, am I supposed to stop and think about her feelings on the matter? Why? Please give an explanation for how this should be done. That sounds like something that would be done in a perfect world of approaching or acknowledging women. It sounds nice, but sexual attraction defies logic more times than not.

 

Whether you like it or not, looking at a woman's body parts and summing them up is going to send a message.

 

Whether you like it or not, looking at a man's body and summing them up is going to send a message. Or is she checking out the tall, athletic guy because he looks like he's a loving bookworm?

 

And no, since women can't read minds, they are going to go for the most logical conclusion. The most logical conclusion isn't, "he must really like me as a person."The most logical conclusion is that man is thinking of her in terms of her body

 

Yeah, but that's on them. Nothing wrong with being cynical, but that type of thinking can become a turn off after awhile. Guys are going to lust after women with certain body types and want to have sex with them. Not a big deal.

 

Since men do most of the approaching, most of the women are going to have to assume the guy is doing it because he thinks they're sexy and beautiful, which also means he'd like to have sex with her. I know, I know. It sounds bad, like he's only interested in her for the wrong reasons, but sexual attraction is the starting point for approaches. If a woman is beautiful or wears revealing clothing to an extent, men are going to look and think about having sex with them. That's just how it is.

 

You forget that all day long men are always talking about how "visual" they are and how they just love/need/can't help themselves not to look.

 

You know what's bad? The fact that you can reverse genders and the above would still apply. Now I'll admit, men can be more disrespectful about it (IE staring at beautiful women dressed sexy while out with their girlfriends or wives), but you and I both know both men and women are very visual.

 

Our own boyfriends tell us this, the media tells us this, men here tell us this all the time. Now it's you respect women by looking at their body parts? And that's a woman's fault if she thinks you just want to bang her? How about some accountability for your own stuff Cracker Jack. If you want to give a woman a certain message, then do the actions that give that message.

 

Then perhaps some of you need to refine your search for better boyfriends. I already said I don't blame women for assuming a man wants to have sex with them, but not every guy is only looking at women for those reasons. He could be attracted, but simply want to get to know her better, if anything. It might sound out of this world, but that's how some guys are.

 

Anyway, the message I'd always want to get across to a woman I approach is that I'm interested in her rather than her assume I'm only interested in being her friend (this has happened when I didn't show actual sexual attraction to the woman), so I feel like I'm not overstepping any boundaries or anything like that.

 

I've owned up to the fact that I'll give attention to a woman's entire body, and since I'm cool and do nothing close to leering, I feel like the way I'm going about this is perfectly healthy and normal.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Cracker Jack

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Cracker Jack

I've been around so many women who constantly went on and on about the "pig in the blanket", "pencil dikk", "baby weewee", etc. But we're men, so it's at the bottom of the totem pole, I'm sure. I've heard an equal amount of insults from both genders. No reason to pretend like this doesn't happen.

 

Why do you think I am pretending that I doesn't happen to men? Was it happening to men in this thread? No.

 

I simply addressed the reality that guys find a lot of crass euphenisms to describe women. You even agreed that, "maybe" it wasn't on the same level. Yet then you turn around and are all like "don't pretend it doesn't happen to men". Who was pretending it didn't happen to men? But it certainly doesn't happen as much. Not everyting is created equal. Just because both men and women are capable of similar behavior doesn't mean both men and women engage in equal amounts in the same behavior. I hate when people use the "they do it too!" argument to avoid talking about the specifics of one gender over the other.

 

I haven't been around women that talk about men like that. Sincerely. I have never heard any of my friends or the women in my life call men "pencil dick" or other things. I am not saying it doesn't happen. I am just saying that I don't talk about guys like that and I never heard my girlrfriends talk about guys like that. But I have heard tons of men talk about women's bodies alot of different ways. Heck, just look at LS. Thread after thread after thread is about women's bodies. For every 10 threads about women's bodies..how women are too fat, how their breasts should be this shape or size, how when they get older they are worthless, blah blah blah....there is probably 1 or 2 threads about men's bodies.

 

Gotta disagree with you there. I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen women claim they wouldn't date a short guy because he's full of dat "short man syndrome", or he's a walking "Napoleon complex" in the making because everything he does outweighs his height. Not to mention all of the ones who believe shortness implies limited masculinity. So yeah, keep believing that.

 

And what about all the guys that talk about women's weight and how they don't want to date women of a certain weight because it shows she doesn't care about herself or that she isn't healthy and couldn't keep up with him or how she is this name or that. How about the snarkey comments about her putting down the cookies. If you want to compare anything to height, then compare it to how men feel about women's weight. But I stand firm that there are not as many disparging names geared to men about their bodies or looks as there are for women.

 

The reason why I'm comparing the two is because both are very desirable traits for both genders, which means more times than not, they're going to garner undivided attention from a man or woman.

 

I have never known a woman to give undivded attention to a man who was tall simply because he was tall. I have seen men do this numerous times when it comes to women's body parts. Further, it makes no sense to be all like, "I don't even like big breasts but I sure as heck will oggle them!"

 

What kinda comparison is that? A straight guy making fun of a gay guy is the equivalent of a playful name regarding women's breasts? Are you serious? Have you never heard other women describe their own breasts with one of the mentioned names or another funny codename? I have many times. Surely there most be a reason why those women don't make a big deal of the nicknames, eh?

 

A straight guy making "playful" names to describe a gay guy could be the equivalent to a straight guy making "playful" names of women's breasts. Or we could say, a straight guy making degrading names to describe a gay guy could be the equivalent to a straight guy making degrading names about a woman, her body parts included in that. Twinkle Toes or Big Melons...what's the difference? they are both playful terms used to describe sexual prolictivities in unflattering terms. (I use "playful" loosely because it might be playful to you and other men who aren't on the receiving end of such things.)

 

As for women that have no problem with it, clearly I don't speak for them. I am sure you think these kind of women are "better" then my way of thought but that doesn't change what I think. Just because other women think differently from me doesn't mean what I have to say has no merit either.

 

 

I don't even think it's that. I just think certain people get accustomed to making references to certain things. Personally I can refer to them as breasts without any issue at all, and I'd likely never go beyond that if I'm actually communicating with a woman; especially if I knew she was so uptight about things and found it hard to laugh at something that, in the grand scheme of things, isn't even a big deal.

 

It's not a big deal to *you*. I get that. Good for you. You are not the one on the receiving end of these names in this case so why would it be a big deal to you?

 

A woman is automatically "uptight" if she can't "laugh" about the same things you personally laugh at, especially regarding names you are using to describe other women's bodies? Do you honestly think that's fair?

 

Also, please stop with the "as a woman, everything is dark and terrible" stuff. It's quite tiring. You don't see me whining about not fitting into society's view of men as a tall, dark, and handsome man, so please, stop thinking about all the negative perks that comes with being a woman. Damn. Develop thicker skin or something.

 

I think you are really just looking to blow off and undermine everything I have to say on this subject. You are a better person then me because your so cool with everything and nothing bothers you. Good for you? Not sure what you are looking for me to say. It's like your saying "I'm so awesome because I think this way and your stuff is so silly and stupid." Okay, whatever but don't sit there and tell me my skin isn't thick just because I find some messed up things in the way I hear grown men talk about women. You don't know my real life experience or how thick my skin is. I might be sensitive but that doesn't mean I'm not tough. I think it matters how men talk about women.

 

I understand demonizing men for leering at women is the cool thing to do, but it's not only misguided, but also infantile. Men look, women look. Why is everything men do blown up to such ridiculous proportions on here?

 

Huh? So you are saying that I am only discussion this subject because it's the "cool" thing to do?

 

Demonizing me to the point of telling me my skin isn't thick that I should grow one or that my view points are basically silly is what, mature? Do you see me making comments about your skin? Would that be fair? My comments have nothing to do with the fact that men and women are sometimes going to look at others. This is a different conversation from what's actually being had here.

 

I just wish men would be more aware of how their words and actions affect those around them and not just justify everything on the back of "biology" or being a man. Which is exactly what you are doing.

 

Also, while you have actually said "it's fine to look", it's clear your entire message promotes anything but. Why, or rather,

 

It is fine to look. Just because I hold certain view points regarding this topic doesn't mean it's not fine to look. And it doesn't mean that it won't cause problems when a man does look or that it shouldn't cause problems just because there is nothing morally wrong with looking. Humans are vastly more complex then that. Our relationships are much more complex then that.

 

Also, you actually have missed out on a big chunk of what I've said. I do think some looking is normal. But I also believe that a lot of men over use and abuse this to the point of being more interested in looking at other women then being present with the woman they are with. Whether they are out in public, watching tve or with their computers. So it's not all or nothing like you are trying to make it out to be. I also said that I don't get men who claim they aren't particularly facinated with a certain body part but then do everything in their power to defend oggling it simply because it's there. Actions are just as important as words. These have been my points all along.

 

how do you suppose we're supposed to take a woman's feelings into consideration?

 

You consider how your words and actions affect those around you. You consider the other people you may be, even if it's just visually, interacting with. You pay attention to your dialogue and words. And not just when a woman is around .But even when she isn't around to see it.

 

 

I understand that staring is rude, but I don't know the woman. If I'm out and about in the town and see a beautiful woman with nice sized breasts, am I supposed to stop and think about her feelings on the matter? Why? Please give an explanation for how this should be done. That sounds like something that would be done in a perfect world of approaching or acknowledging women. It sounds nice, but sexual attraction defies logic more times than not.

 

Okay, don't think about her or her feelings at all. She is just a pair of walking breasts. Thinking of her feelings would complicate the pleasure you get out of staring at her breasts. You're just suppose to oggle her breasts because it's all about you and your desires and visual pleasure after all. Is that the answer you want Cracker Jack? What? Am I a bad guy for thinking you should think of that woman?

 

 

Yeah, but that's on them. Nothing wrong with being cynical, but that type of thinking can become a turn off after awhile. Guys are going to lust after women with certain body types and want to have sex with them. Not a big deal.

 

That's fine. Because I think it's also a turn off when guys talk about how much they are going to lust after other women with certain body types an think about having sex with them and now "that's jsut the way it is". Not exactly the kind of conversation that is going to create a lot of trust or understanding.

 

It's also a put off how you turn everything around to be a woman's responsibility when you say things like, "that's on them", and fail to acknowledge how men's actions and words play their own part.

 

You are basically making the same argument that is as old as time. It's all about men's biology. It's okay to do x,y and z because a man feels something in his pants! Same old argument different day.

 

Since men do most of the approaching, most of the women are going to have to assume the guy is doing it because he thinks they're sexy and beautiful, which also means he'd like to have sex with her. I know, I know. It sounds bad, like he's only interested in her for the wrong reasons, but sexual attraction is the starting point for approaches.

 

I think you are an intelligent enough person to undrestant that in all things between men and women, it is not black and white. Just because men think someone is beautiful an sexy and want to have sex with her, doesn't mean his actions or how he thinks or treats that person are always good/right/healthy. They aren't always "bad" either. However, they aren't always "good" either just because men get horny. You forget that on the other end of his sexuality, on the receiving end, is that woman. he either chooses to interact with her as a person or he continunes to condone his own behavior in seeing her and treating her as nothing more then something sexy to have sex with. Sorry. But just because you get horny, doesn't mean everything is okay.

 

If a woman is beautiful or wears revealing clothing to an extent, men are going to look and think about having sex with them. That's just how it is

 

I'm sorry but this is simply the standards old "biology" arguement. Wrapping things up with "that's just how it is." goes to show that you don't even care for the female side of it or to hear the female side of it because it ultimately comes down to male biology first. Even when it's at the expense of a woman.We get it. Women get it beat into their heads how much men think and want to have sex with pretty women. Seriously. It's just more of the same. Men's biology justifies anything. And it enables you to hide behind that so you don't have to try to hear or understand women that think differently then you.

 

 

You know what's bad? The fact that you can reverse genders and the above would still apply. Now I'll admit, men can be more disrespectful about it (IE staring at beautiful women dressed sexy while out with their girlfriends or wives), but you and I both know both men and women are very visual.

 

We are also very emotional, spirtual, moral...Humans are a lot of things. They are not jsut the sum of their eyes and their sex organs. There are a lot of different factors at work. You can not just justify the sexual element and think that gets us anywhere without acknowledging the reality that because humans are also other things, such as emotional, that emotional aspects are going to be affects JUST as much as sexual. Just because men get horny and it's all about the "biology" doesn't always do a great job of explaining the fast experience that is to be human.

 

Like you said, men seem to be more guilty of this disrespectful behavior then women. So I don't know why you can't understand why then it causes bigger issues for some women then men.

 

It's like that whole strip club justification. When a man has a gf/wife but he wants to go to a strip club, so many guys are all like, "it's no big deal, men just visual". Yet if that same gf/wife wanted to be a stripper on stage for a night, I doubt he would have any more interest in the, "it's no big deal, men are visual" argument. He wouldn't care how visual other men where. He wouldn't want them seeing his girlfriend. So go ahead and justify behavior because of sexuality. However human beings are compromised of so much more then just sexuality so saying silly things like, "men think about sex, that's just how it is." isn't going to solve anything because men AND women aren't just sexual drones walking around trying to get their sex organs on other sex organs. We are much more complex then that.

[joystickd]

Well I just read the funbag monologue. I think back and most of the women I have been with were a C cup or better. I like the ones with giant areolas. I think no matter what size they were it wouldn't have affected my level of attraction to them because hell I'm a leg man.

[somedude81]

I like big areolas as well.

 

Big boobs + big areola + long nipples = perfection

[Mme. Chaucer]

Are women allowed to talk about funbags, or are we supposed to refer to them as "mammary glands" or "breasts" exclusively?

 

May I at least call them "breasticles"?

 

Honestly, I enjoy calling body parts ridiculous names. Even though I'm a grown-ass woman. Why shouldn't men get to enjoy it as well?

[Mme. Chaucer]

As for women that have no problem with it, clearly I don't speak for them.

 

Thank God! I was a bit concerned, what with your common assertions of what a "woman's point of view," etc., was.

 

No offense, DY, but you certainly don't speak for me or any of my friends and family of fellow women with your enormous rants … on any thread that has the remotest tinge of a sexual nature. Nope!

[123321]

Women have been say "veejayjay" for some reason, and I never complained even though I'll be damned if I know what VJJ has to do with anything sexual.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Women have been say "veejayjay" for some reason, and I never complained even though I'll be damned if I know what VJJ has to do with anything sexual.

 

Well, we better quit that right now and start talking about our pubic areas. It also really bugs when girls mistakenly call the whole shebang down there a "vagina." There is a lot more to it than that, and we better get familiar and comfortable with referring to every part by its proper scientific name.

 

And, of course, we can only refer to our man's throbbing gristle as a PENIS.

 

We must join together and work towards this crucial cause!

[123321]

Well, we better quit that right now and start talking about our pubic areas. It also really bugs when girls mistakenly call the whole shebang down there a "vagina." There is a lot more to it than that, and we better get familiar and comfortable with referring to every part by its proper scientific name

 

I just don't know why Volvo had to name their car company after all those girl parts. Makes me horny every time I follow a C90.

[Cracker Jack]

Why do you think I am pretending that I doesn't happen to men? Was it happening to men in this thread? No.

 

I simply addressed the reality that guys find a lot of crass euphenisms to describe women. You even agreed that, "maybe" it wasn't on the same level. Yet then you turn around and are all like "don't pretend it doesn't happen to men". Who was pretending it didn't happen to men? But it certainly doesn't happen as much. Not everyting is created equal. Just because both men and women are capable of similar behavior doesn't mean both men and women engage in equal amounts in the same behavior. I hate when people use the "they do it too!" argument to avoid talking about the specifics of one gender over the other.

 

I'm not looking to avoid anything. I'm simply telling it how it is from a male's perspective. It's a two way discussion, last time I checked. I'm allowed to give input from my actual experiences.

 

I haven't been around women that talk about men like that. Sincerely. I have never heard any of my friends or the women in my life call men "pencil dick" or other things. I am not saying it doesn't happen. I am just saying that I don't talk about guys like that and I never heard my girlrfriends talk about guys like that.

 

That's cool. Sounds like you have good friends. And for the record, I never sit around with my friends making disparaging remarks about women, either. Maybe comment on how sexy a woman is, but nothing more.

 

But I have heard tons of men talk about women's bodies alot of different ways. Heck, just look at LS. Thread after thread after thread is about women's bodies. For every 10 threads about women's bodies..how women are too fat, how their breasts should be this shape or size, how when they get older they are worthless, blah blah blah....there is probably 1 or 2 threads about men's bodies.

 

Same. But then again, you have to look at the guys making those topics. Most guys have the perfect woman in their mind in terms of weight, height, breast size, everything--so most of them won't hesitate to let their opinion be known on the matter.

 

And what about all the guys that talk about women's weight and how they don't want to date women of a certain weight because it shows she doesn't care about herself or that she isn't healthy and couldn't keep up with him or how she is this name or that. How about the snarkey comments about her putting down the cookies. If you want to compare anything to height, then compare it to how men feel about women's weight. But I stand firm that there are not as many disparging names geared to men about their bodies or looks as there are for women.

 

How you draw a comparison of height (something you can't really change, and isn't brought about by any certain lifestyle you've had, unless it was something drastic like doing meth at maybe 10 or 12 yrs old) to weight (something most people have control over, last time I checked), I have no idea. The two aren't remotely similiar.

 

And let's be real, most people in general want their partners to be at a healthy weight. Me, personally, I'd have no issue dating a thick woman, but that's neither here nor there.

 

have never known a woman to give undivded attention to a man who was tall simply because he was tall. I have seen men do this numerous times when it comes to women's body parts. Further, it makes no sense to be all like, "I don't even like big breasts but I sure as heck will oggle them!"

 

I have. More times than not, the guy was a tall good looking guy, but I've still seen my fair share of women quickly shift their attention towards him simply based on how he looks. Also, I hope you're not referring to me above, because I never said "I don't like big breasts", just that they're not a big deal to me. They're nice, but I don't care for them in particular.

 

A straight guy making "playful" names to describe a gay guy could be the equivalent to a straight guy making "playful" names of women's breasts. Or we could say, a straight guy making degrading names to describe a gay guy could be the equivalent to a straight guy making degrading names about a woman, her body parts included in that.

 

Nope, because most terms aimed at gays are meant to hurt their feelings based on how they are. At least based on what I've seen throughout my yrs. Furthermore, the dynamics are totally different. One is purely sexual in nature, while the other is actually taking what appears to be a negative shot at one's sexual preference/lifestyle. Most guys love women with big breasts, and I'm pretty sure the # of homophobes outnumber the lovers here. Invalid comparison.

 

Twinkle Toes or Big Melons...what's the difference?

 

One is straight up implying a dude is a homosexual and the other is implying a woman has large breasts. You tell me.

 

they are both playful terms used to describe sexual prolictivities in unflattering terms. (I use "playful" loosely because it might be playful to you and other men who aren't on the receiving end of such things.)

 

Except implying someone is homosexual is nowhere near as playful as one talking about a woman with large breasts. Especially since the former is far more despised in society, while the latter is actully sought after.

 

As for women that have no problem with it, clearly I don't speak for them. I am sure you think these kind of women are "better" then my way of thought but that doesn't change what I think. Just because other women think differently from me doesn't mean what I have to say has no merit either.

 

Nope. Never said those women were better than you simply based on the difference between how you think. I already said at the end of the day these things have to be judged on a case by case basis.

 

It's not a big deal to *you*. I get that. Good for you. You are not the one on the receiving end of these names in this case so why would it be a big deal to you?

 

You're right!

 

A woman is automatically "uptight" if she can't "laugh" about the same things you personally laugh at, especially regarding names you are using to describe other women's bodies? Do you honestly think that's fair?

 

Yes, she's uptight in my opinion. Nothing wrong with that. Just means I wouldn't be able to mesh well with someone who chooses to see everything in such a dark light. She probably wouldn't think I'm her type of guy, anyway. I guess I just don't see why it bothers you so much if you're actually comfortable in your own skin.

 

I think you are really just looking to blow off and undermine everything I have to say on this subject. You are a better person then me because your so cool with everything and nothing bothers you. Good for you? Not sure what you are looking for me to say. It's like your saying "I'm so awesome because I think this way and your stuff is so silly and stupid."

 

Oh, come on, DY. I have mad love for you! I always enjoyed how you never pulled punches and spoke your mind, even back in your Jersey days. I don't think I'm better than anyone, so I don't know where you're getting that from.

 

Lots of things bother me. I never enjoyed feeling like the odd one out because of my lack of experience; I never enjoyed feeling like I can never live up to the definition society sets on being a man, both physically and mentally; I never enjoyed seeing women I had feelings for be hurt constantly; I also never enjoyed seeing good women being taken advantage of, either.

 

After awhile, DY, I realized that I, as a single individual living in this world, has absolutely no control over how others act in life. That's just what it comes down to. I can stop making certain references to women's bodies and all of that good stuff, but does that really change anything? Does it change the reality we live in? It wouldn't.

 

Okay, whatever but don't sit there and tell me my skin isn't thick just because I find some messed up things in the way I hear grown men talk about women. You don't know my real life experience or how thick my skin is. I might be sensitive but that doesn't mean I'm not tough. I think it matters how men talk about women.

 

I'm just saying you can't be so quick to lash out because of how other people conduct their lives. Sure, you can be upset at the lack of respect men are displayng nowadays, but what happens after that? More built up frustration over foolishness in society? It's not worth it. It's merely the world we live in.

 

Huh? So you are saying that I am only discussion this subject because it's the "cool" thing to do?

 

It was a general comment. Not aimed at you specifically.

 

Demonizing me to the point of telling me my skin isn't thick that I should grow one or that my view points are basically silly is what, mature? Do you see me making comments about your skin? Would that be fair? My comments have nothing to do with the fact that men and women are sometimes going to look at others. This is a different conversation from what's actually being had here.

 

I just said you need to develop "thicker" skin because it's clear you're offended rather easily when it comes to any "wrongdoing" men appear to deliver to women, such as watching porn and masturbation, call their breasts different names, etc. Simply put, you come off pretty frantic whenever certain discussions come up, which shows that you're way too emotionally invested in some of these topics.

 

And you wouldn't be able to say anything about my skin simply because you don't have any details to go off on. A good while back, if you ever saw me in a short guy topic, I was definitely bitchin it up there, so telling me to grow thicker skin would've been more than accurate there. Now, I simply understand that people live their lives a certain way, and that there's no point in getting so caught up in things I have no control over.

 

I just wish men would be more aware of how their words and actions affect those around them and not just justify everything on the back of "biology" or being a man. Which is exactly what you are doing.

 

Men and women are made of different stuff, tho. I'm not justifying anything, btw.

 

It is fine to look. Just because I hold certain view points regarding this topic doesn't mean it's not fine to look. And it doesn't mean that it won't cause problems when a man does look or that it shouldn't cause problems just because there is nothing morally wrong with looking. Humans are vastly more complex then that. Our relationships are much more complex then that.

 

Also, you actually have missed out on a big chunk of what I've said. I do think some looking is normal. But I also believe that a lot of men over use and abuse this to the point of being more interested in looking at other women then being present with the woman they are with.

 

Men leering while out with their own woman is the problem, then. You should've just came out and said that instead of going on about how disrespectful it is for men to leer. It's all clear now.

 

Whether they are out in public, watching tve or with their computers. So it's not all or nothing like you are trying to make it out to be. I also said that I don't get men who claim they aren't particularly facinated with a certain body part but then do everything in their power to defend oggling it simply because it's there. Actions are just as important as words. These have been my points all along.

 

Come on. Even kids notice when a woman's breasts are really big. And I've seen the reaction from them with my own eyes. Simply put, it's a physical feature made to stand-out and draw attention from people. Those women might not enjoy that attention and I feel for them, but that's how it is in general society. Breasts draw attention. Why do you think most women get their breast size increased? For kicks? No. To draw attention.

 

You consider how your words and actions affect those around you. You consider the other people you may be, even if it's just visually, interacting with. You pay attention to your dialogue and words. And not just when a woman is around .But even when she isn't around to see it.

 

And this is something I'm always doing. Even to a fault. I'm very guarded around women, and usually don't take many risks with them. Topics like this only reinforce why I've been doing that for so long.

 

Okay, don't think about her or her feelings at all. She is just a pair of walking breasts. Thinking of her feelings would complicate the pleasure you get out of staring at her breasts.

 

But. I. Don't. Know. Her. I can think of her feelings, but where does that get me, DY? Answer that. No, wait! I'll take the pleasure of doing it myself: nowhere. Why? Because I have nothing to go off of. There's no existing data for me to analyze.

 

Whenever I see a woman with a sad expression on her face, I often wonder why she appears to be so troubled, but at the end of the day, what can I do about her feelings? Thinking of her feelings sounds good, but what does it actually do? How does this benefit me or the woman?

 

And obviously I know women are more than a walking pair of breasts.

 

You're just suppose to oggle her breasts because it's all about you and your desires and visual pleasure after all. Is that the answer you want Cracker Jack? What? Am I a bad guy for thinking you should think of that woman?

 

That's not the answer I want because that's not the type of guy I am. I'm nowhere near the most visual guy. Never have been. And no, you're not a bad guy for that. I just want to understand how wondering about a strangers feelings is actually beneficial for me or her. If you're just referring to men who have girlfriends that leer at other women, I 100% agree with you.

 

If anything, being the type of guy I am, I'll just assume because she's beautiful and has a nice body, she's constantly hit on, then I'll just walk away because I don't want to be another guy that makes her feel uncomfortable. I'm sure you don't care much about my dilemma in those situations.

 

I've always considered a woman's feelings, and, as much as you may not like to hear this, I feel like this is one of the reasons why I've never done too well with women. Having way too much consideration for their feelings, which stops me from making my interest known.

 

That's fine. Because I think it's also a turn off when guys talk about how much they are going to lust after other women with certain body types an think about having sex with them and now "that's jsut the way it is". Not exactly the kind of conversation that is going to create a lot of trust or understanding.

 

Understandable, but that's just the reality of things. Luckily there are tons of guys who aren't lusting and only thinking about having sex with women, so that's good.

 

It's also a put off how you turn everything around to be a woman's responsibility when you say things like, "that's on them", and fail to acknowledge how men's actions and words play their own part.

 

I have acknowledged men's actions on this, but what it comes down to is how women are going to handle men of that nature. Since this has been going on for centuries, it's clear that there's no solid answer on why. That's why I assume most go for the "biology" bit. Most people use this whenever it's convenient for them.

 

You are basically making the same argument that is as old as time. It's all about men's biology. It's okay to do x,y and z because a man feels something in his pants! Same old argument different day.

 

When you realize that there's no simple answer to something of this magnitude, you'll understand what I mean. Instead of overcomplicating things like this, all you can do is focus on how you're going to repel men like that. You (and all of us) lack the power to change how men are going to approach women, so why not just focus on strengthening your own boundaries rather than get so distraught over things that have been happening since the dark ages?

 

I think you are an intelligent enough person to undrestant that in all things between men and women, it is not black and white. Just because men think someone is beautiful an sexy and want to have sex with her, doesn't mean his actions or how he thinks or treats that person are always good/right/healthy.

 

I do understand that interactions between men and women are very versatile, which is a great thing. I don't think going into an approach with that mindset (she's beautiful, I want to have sex with her. Sex is the only thing I'm focused on) is exactly healthy to do, myself.

 

They aren't always "bad" either. However, they aren't always "good" either just because men get horny. You forget that on the other end of his sexuality, on the receiving end, is that woman. he either chooses to interact with her as a person or he continunes to condone his own behavior in seeing her and treating her as nothing more then something sexy to have sex with. Sorry. But just because you get horny, doesn't mean everything is okay.

 

And...I don't disagree with that. That's why these things have to be judged on a case by case basis. It's not difficult for a guy to conduct himself like a gentleman, appearing to not care about sex...while having sex as the #1 thing on his mind when it comes to approaching women. I think treating her like a person instead of a woman you just wanna get into bed is the best approach, actually.

 

I'm sorry but this is simply the standards old "biology" arguement. Wrapping things up with "that's just how it is." goes to show that you don't even care for the female side of it or to hear the female side of it because it ultimately comes down to male biology first. Even when it's at the expense of a woman.We get it. Women get it beat into their heads how much men think and want to have sex with pretty women. Seriously. It's just more of the same. Men's biology justifies anything. And it enables you to hide behind that so you don't have to try to hear or understand women that think differently then you.

 

I do care for the female side in this debate, but me caring doesn't change what happens in reality on a daily basis, does it? I've been doing nothing but listening and considering your stance here. Obviously I have to consider my own biology whenever talking about both genders in this format. It's very clear women (rightfully so) are your main concern here, which means they come first for you in a discussion. Even if some if it is bias, it's perfectly understandable to me, so you should understand I'm going to challenge your opinion on certain discussions regarding men.

 

We are also very emotional, spirtual, moral...Humans are a lot of things. They are not jsut the sum of their eyes and their sex organs. There are a lot of different factors at work. You can not just justify the sexual element and think that gets us anywhere without acknowledging the reality that because humans are also other things, such as emotional, that emotional aspects are going to be affects JUST as much as sexual. Just because men get horny and it's all about the "biology" doesn't always do a great job of explaining the fast experience that is to be human.

 

I've never once disputed that human beings were complex. I'm simply going off of things I usually see. I'd be lying if I said the emphasis placed on sex was relatively low for men. It's be an outright lie.

 

Like you said, men seem to be more guilty of this disrespectful behavior then women. So I don't know why you can't understand why then it causes bigger issues for some women then men.

 

I do understand. But it's not the "be all end all" of things. That's my point. Visuality is simply a starting point for either gender, which helps move things into the direction of emotional, spiritual aspects shared between men and women.

 

It's like that whole strip club justification. When a man has a gf/wife but he wants to go to a strip club, so many guys are all like, "it's no big deal, men just visual". Yet if that same gf/wife wanted to be a stripper on stage for a night, I doubt he would have any more interest in the, "it's no big deal, men are visual" argument. He wouldn't care how visual other men where. He wouldn't want them seeing his girlfriend. So go ahead and justify behavior because of sexuality. However human beings are compromised of so much more then just sexuality so saying silly things like, "men think about sex, that's just how it is." isn't going to solve anything because men AND women aren't just sexual drones walking around trying to get their sex organs on other sex organs. We are much more complex then that.

 

Actually, I'm not a fan of double standards, so no way would I even entertain them. However, in your example, it's different because he's going to a strip club likely for entertainment, bachelor party, or something like that. His girlfriend is someone he's sharing his life with, so why should he be okay with her working as a stripper? Unless he's spending most of his free time in a strip club, I don't see that as a fair trade-off.

 

I'm mainly referring to how men approach women on a romantic basis. Even still, I know it's not always about sex, but sexual attraction or just attraction in general is usually the primary starting point in romantic approaches.

 

Once you get past all of that, emotions, personality, and things that aren't pertaining to sex not only becomes more accessible for men and women, but also more important. That's why you'll often hear men and women say "Well, I wasn't attracted to them at first, but as I got to know them, we developed something beyond physical attraction" and voila.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Are women allowed to talk about funbags, or are we supposed to refer to them as "mammary glands" or "breasts" exclusively?

 

May I at least call them "breasticles"?

 

Honestly, I enjoy calling body parts ridiculous names. Even though I'm a grown-ass woman. Why shouldn't men get to enjoy it as well?

 

 

I said there were women that did. I also said I didn't speak for those women. How could I? But yeah, I think it's a little silly when adults can't say the word breast. Maybe there is a time and place for euphenisms. But it seems like hearing the actual word "breast" is more rare then saying the euphenism. And something about that seems off to me.

 

I was also thinking about this in terms of not being able to say the words of actual sex organs and how America gets blamed for being overly prudish. Such as the naked site of a breast being a big deal here but from my understanding, not as big a deal in other countries. I would be curious how much euphenisms for body parts dominated conversations in other countries that may not be so prudish about sex vs somehwere like America that has a bigger history of issues regarding sexuality. Because to me, euphenisms are orginally used to avoid saying the actual body part being talked about anywhere from embaressment to being purposely rude to someone to joking.

I just wonder if there is a link between that and ideas about sexuality in general.