truffelo Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) what's your experience? I already had 3 girlfriends two of them just saw me as a friend and said 'no' at the beginning but later we started something ( after several months, i told them i was in love with them) which ended after 2 and 6 years. During the relation I often had the impression that they got more in love with me than I was. But that was between my 15 and 24 My 3th relation started much sooner, just a few weeks after i met the girl. It felt terrible very soon and after 3 weeks I broke up Now I'm 25 and i got very close with this girl on a very short time( on an emotional way, not on a sexual way) We have great conversations, make a lot of fun, tell things we never told anyone... One day I realised she was the only thing i thought about. Because i fellt guilty cause she told me her "biggest" secrets, I told her I liked her ( because of circumstances, this was by email) She did a lot of effort to send one back ( If i would print the email, I need 4 papers) in which she said that she didn't had space in her head to think about it and that she hadn't feelings for me. First days were really akward but after some days she begon to look for contact again. She's got a lot work for school now. But everyday i get a pretty long mail in which she talks about her day and agrees to do some trips when her school work is over. There was this one confusing text message in which she said that the girl that doesn't want me to take care of them, has to be crazy. So I don't know. I know this is one of the most special girls i ever met and i can imagine i would be happy if she stays in my life just like a very good friend. But off course i have this desire to get even closer. Ok, so back to the question Once a "No", always a "No"? Edited June 22, 2012 by truffelo
carhill Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 Once a "No", always a "No"? IME, as an adult male, yes. Here's another adult male life lesson I learned, so far without exception. When a woman tells you her 'big, dark secrets' before you're in a sexually intimate relationship, there's high probability (IME complete probability) that you are a receptacle and not a potential lover and/or mate. Tip: Save the love letters (e-mails) for your wife or committed partner, if anyone. A person (woman or man) must earn the privilege of the 'belly', meaning access to your innermost and vulnerable thoughts and feelings. This is similar to how you earn access to a woman's private parts. If she just gave it away, you wouldn't value it. 'No'. Embrace it. Use it. It's a good word. 2
Eternal Sunshine Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 Yep, I don't open up or send long e-mails to potential lovers. I am too afraid of scaring them off, so I keep it only short and flirty. If I am writing those long, drawn out messages, that's because I only see that guy as a friend. BTW, unfortunately guys seem to see it as building intimacy when in all reality, I just don't care how they see me so I am completely open. 1
Feelsgoodman Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 Here's another adult male life lesson I learned, so far without exception. When a woman tells you her 'big, dark secrets' before you're in a sexually intimate relationship, there's high probability (IME complete probability) that you are a receptacle and not a potential lover and/or mate. Tip: Save the love letters (e-mails) for your wife or committed partner, if anyone. Solid advice right there.
utterer of lies Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 Tip: Save the love letters (e-mails) for your wife or committed partner, if anyone. Solid advice right there. The if anyone part, at least. Love emails are pathetic.
carhill Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 Yeah, kinda like a typewritten love letter. Guilty of that ('love' e-mail), at least in one case. My 'romantic' years pre-dated e-mail to a large degree so most were handwritten. Something about pen and paper versus pixels on a screen in that realm. Perhaps young folks are different about all that stuff. OTOH, the OP has apparently had three girlfriends, two of which said 'no' and then later changed their minds, so I surmise he must be doing something right. Tough call. IME, as women got older, their actions and words were more deliberate and less ambiguous. Generally, after mid-late twenties, when most of my 'no's' took place, they were polite, firm and unwavering. That's what I'm hearing here (the lady's reaction) so perhaps the OP can compare and leave room for this experience as authentic and not as an anomaly to his past experience. 1
dasein Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 OP listen to carhill, he's dead-on. The only way I know of to turn a "no" into a "yes" is by changing your perceived social value. When a woman tells you plainly that she doesn't have feelings for you, withdraw and move on, cultivate other options. The "moving on" part takes a previously unlimited quantity (your time and attention) and limits it. This raises social value. When she finds out you are dating other women, even sees you with them, this raises social value also. These are low percentage chances, maybe ~10% chance of changing anything. Up to you if you want to bet those odds or simply move on altogether, which is usually the best idea. 5
LoveAnimals Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 I have to lol because I am a young woman and agree with Carhill and sunshine above. Sounds like this woman has friend zoned you. It has happened to me so many times. Guys always interpret my openess and talking about deep things as some sort of romantic interest when in reality I just consider them a friend/good friend. Even when i openly state that I am not interested they seem to think i will change my mind or am playing hard to get. All i can suggest is to keep your hopes low and your options open..
january2011 Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) Perhaps I'm one of the exceptions regarding openess and talking about deep feelings with guys. I tend not to make guy friends, acquaintances yes, but not guy friends. I especially do not tell male acquaintances about deep feelings. I either talk to a sibling, a female friend or my SO. While dating, if I talk about deep feelings with a guy, it's to build intimacy and to encourage him to open up about himself. If I had acquaintance-zoned him, we'd, "shoot the sh*t," but that would be it. Regarding the OP about, "No": From past experience, yes. But I've also learned never to say never for some scenarios and this is one of them. Edited June 22, 2012 by january2011
Eddie Edirol Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 OTOH, the OP has apparently had three girlfriends, two of which said 'no' and then later changed their minds, so I surmise he must be doing something right. Tough call. . Yeah but the OP is clearly from a non english country, where the women might do that often, as the dating dynamic. So it could be more the norm, rather than something he's doing right. Women saying no where he's from might be the equivalent to a woman accepting a drink at a bar here.
fishtaco Posted June 22, 2012 Posted June 22, 2012 Yeah but the OP is clearly from a non english country, where the women might do that often, as the dating dynamic. So it could be more the norm, rather than something he's doing right. Women saying no where he's from might be the equivalent to a woman accepting a drink at a bar here. 100% agree with carhill and dasein. But you bring up a good point... What they said is exactly how things happen in Southern California. I'm trying to be specific because I don't have dating experience anywhere else. And since I usually go after Latinas, it's not unusual for me to hit up on first generation immigrants that barely speak English. Once in while, I'd run into a woman that wants to be friends first; because back home, they don't do this "dating" business we do here in the US. And usually that doesn't work out, because I don't do "becoming friends first". I've made some inquiries, and what I've been told, at least my interpretation of it, which may or may not be correct, is that in Latin America, the people in big cities tend to date the way we do. Other areas, not so much. Rural areas tend to be very traditional and religion plays a large role. So the location may matter, I don't know. But going by my personal experience, I have to agree with carhill and dasein 100%.
Princess71 Posted June 23, 2012 Posted June 23, 2012 OP listen to carhill, he's dead-on. The only way I know of to turn a "no" into a "yes" is by changing your perceived social value. When a woman tells you plainly that she doesn't have feelings for you, withdraw and move on, cultivate other options. The "moving on" part takes a previously unlimited quantity (your time and attention) and limits it. This raises social value. When she finds out you are dating other women, even sees you with them, this raises social value also. These are low percentage chances, maybe ~10% chance of changing anything. Up to you if you want to bet those odds or simply move on altogether, which is usually the best idea. Does the same thing go for women?? Does social value play a part in changing a guy's mind??
Eddie Edirol Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 Does the same thing go for women?? Does social value play a part in changing a guy's mind?? Depends on how the guy lives. If he doesnt have that many friends, he's not worried about the womans friends. If he is high on the social ladder, he might expect her to be a social butterfly. Not always though. The thing that a gu8y doesnt like is a woman that is always looking at him for her entertain ment. If she doesnt have anything to do when he leaves, then its a problem. Not much worse than a woman who depends on you for something to do.
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