I cannot continue like this...

[andrew9292]

Andrew, it sounds like you have been a good and dutiful and obedient son and husband all your life....but NEVER voiced your needs or instituted boundaries for you and what you wanted. You just went along.

 

This is the classic mid-life crises where you are looking for some freedom and some fun, but you never voiced it to your spouse.

 

You voiced it to your OW and she seems to accept your flip-flopping.

 

You need to figure out what you want; who you need, how you envision your future, maybe for the first time in your life.

 

If you marry your OW, won;t she want a house and children too? Could you wind up in the future with your OW in exactly the same situation as you are now with your wife? No fun, less freedom, more financial responsibility?

 

If you and your wife devoted the same amount of time to each other as you and your single OW do, have the same fun, pursue hobbies and interests together, would you re-commit to the marriage?

 

You have to find your voice. Only you can determine what you need out of life, then it your job to make your needs known.

 

Until you do you shouldn't have a relationship with anyone. You cannot continue to drift through life hoping something or someone out there will make it right for you.

 

It won't happen because wherever you go, there you will be.

 

I have been the kind of person who has been afraid to upset people so have often not done my own thing to avoid confrontation. Yes there have been times when I've gone to the football etc with my friends, but I've always felt a sense of guilt that I shouldn't be out doing my own thing whilst my wife has the kids. To be fair though I have often minded the kids whilst she does her own thing - at least once a week

 

Recently we did try to do more together, go out once a week for a meal, watch a band, have a few drinks. It was nice but a much more watered down type thing - back early etc. Most of our time is spent doing family things which is good, but I do crave adult time too. That aspect had certainly been lacking before any of this happened.

[andrew9292]

Andrew, I'm glad you're still posting here despite all the challenging responses.

 

Actually though (and you might not believe this), what a lot of the posters here are saying are exactly spot on. Even more interesting to an outside casual observer (me), is that you have posters from the all sides of the affair triangle (CS (you), BS, and AP) who are all telling you the same thing! And that is to make a decision already!

 

What are your thoughts about that? The thought that pretty much everyone is telling you the same thing, despite whether they were formally in your position as a cheater, your OW's position, or the position of your wife?

 

I hope someday in a year or so after you've made your decision, you will look up this thread and be able to see the truth in most of the words here.

 

BTW, you sound almost verbatim to some of the cr*p that my H said during his affair.

 

I think Spark1111's post at the top of this page nails it...what do you think? Were you always the type of guy to go along with what everyone wanted?

 

Please, go talk to someone objective about all this.

 

I know it is important to decide now. Maybe I'm a classic "libra" - I cannot make up my mind unless I am 100% sure I have made the right choice. This decision is never going to be 100% either way and is so life changing, this is why I struggle so much with it.

 

Also for the record, I have been to 2 counsellors on my own. The first one just listened and asked the odd question which I found quite hard work because I ended up waffling. The second one laughed at something inappropriate so I didn't go back!! Maybe 3rd time lucky with that one?

[2sunny]

I know it is important to decide now. Maybe I'm a classic "libra" - I cannot make up my mind unless I am 100% sure I have made the right choice. This decision is never going to be 100% either way and is so life changing, this is why I struggle so much with it.

 

Also for the record, I have been to 2 counsellors on my own. The first one just listened and asked the odd question which I found quite hard work because I ended up waffling. The second one laughed at something inappropriate so I didn't go back!! Maybe 3rd time lucky with that one?

 

Deciding NOTHING is still deciding something - as YOU are causing harm to many by not deciding.

 

A counselor isn't going to decide FOR YOU - that is for YOU to do!

 

Anyone you choose - you're going to hurt - so decide to be on your OWN - until YOU GET HEALTHY and UNSELFISH!

[SomedayDig]

Classic Libra? That's what you're pawning your indecisiveness off on? Okay. What about the part that says "Librans are sensitive to the needs of others and have the gift, sometimes to an almost psychic extent, of understanding the emotional needs of their companions".

 

But that description probably isn't convenient.

[thomasb]

What did you learn about yourself?

 

 

I learned that it was never another woman who could fill the hole inside me. It was only by living an authentic, honest life that I could do that. I also learned that I would never wish to marry a woman who would lie, cheat and deceive people with me. Why would I wish a future of that on myself!

I confessed to my wife and started working on my issues. I almost lost her in the process. But, my wife is truly one of Gods' best and forgave me. We have a wonderful marriage now, over a decade later. And I get to wake up in the morning feeling good about my life and my choices instead of having a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.

[frozensprouts]

I have been the kind of person who has been afraid to upset people so have often not done my own thing to avoid confrontation. Yes there have been times when I've gone to the football etc with my friends, but I've always felt a sense of guilt that I shouldn't be out doing my own thing whilst my wife has the kids. To be fair though I have often minded the kids whilst she does her own thing - at least once a week

 

Recently we did try to do more together, go out once a week for a meal, watch a band, have a few drinks. It was nice but a much more watered down type thing - back early etc. Most of our time is spent doing family things which is good, but I do crave adult time too. That aspect had certainly been lacking before any of this happened.

 

OP,

you do know that when you have kids, your "adult time" is sharply curtailed...that is the very nature of being a parent.

 

reading your posts makes me think that your issue may not really be with you wife...it's more an issue with being a family.

This is not to say that you don't love your kids, or that you are a "bad dad", but when you are a parent, you don't get "adult time" nearly as often as a single guy, or even a divorced guy with kids would tend to get.

 

what amount of "adult time" do you feel you need to be happy? is going out for an evening with your wife, but maybe home by midnight, once a week enough? What about some additional time with friends, but again, home at a reasonable hour? Is that enough? If not, then maybe being a "full time family" isn't what's right for you....it's hard to admit, but some people just aren't cut out for that sort of thing. The fact that you were seeing this other woman , to me, speaks more to the fact that you want your" freedom" more than that you love/don't love your wife, other woman, whoever.

[thomasb]

I have been the kind of person who has been afraid to upset people so have often not done my own thing to avoid confrontation. Yes there have been times when I've gone to the football etc with my friends, but I've always felt a sense of guilt that I shouldn't be out doing my own thing whilst my wife has the kids. To be fair though I have often minded the kids whilst she does her own thing - at least once a week

 

Recently we did try to do more together, go out once a week for a meal, watch a band, have a few drinks. It was nice but a much more watered down type thing - back early etc. Most of our time is spent doing family things which is good, but I do crave adult time too. That aspect had certainly been lacking before any of this happened.

 

 

Oh come on! You obviously can carve out 'me' time since you managed to find the time to screw another woman. So that just doesn't fly! After you have children your time is family time 99.9 percent of the time. After all, you created these children. What the hell gives you the right to walk off from them so you can have more time to persue other women? You can create a marriage where your unity comes first.

[SomedayDig]

I learned that it was never another woman who could fill the hole inside me. It was only by living an authentic, honest life that I could do that. I also learned that I would never wish to marry a woman who would lie, cheat and deceive people with me. Why would I wish a future of that on myself!

I confessed to my wife and started working on my issues. I almost lost her in the process. But, my wife is truly one of Gods' best and forgave me. We have a wonderful marriage now, over a decade later. And I get to wake up in the morning feeling good about my life and my choices instead of having a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.

 

 

From a BS point of view, thank you for that Thomas. Truly.

[Furious]

Oh come on! You obviously can carve out 'me' time since you managed to find the time to screw another woman. So that just doesn't fly! After you have children your time is family time 99.9 percent of the time. After all, you created these children. What the hell gives you the right to walk off from them so you can have more time to persue other women? You can create a marriage where your unity comes first.

 

 

I agree with thomasb.

 

Your claim that you have very little freedom contradicts the time and energy you've spent in conducting an affair.

 

You seem very resentful, and passive aggressive.

[Spark1111]

I know it is important to decide now. Maybe I'm a classic "libra" - I cannot make up my mind unless I am 100% sure I have made the right choice. This decision is never going to be 100% either way and is so life changing, this is why I struggle so much with it.

 

Also for the record, I have been to 2 counsellors on my own. The first one just listened and asked the odd question which I found quite hard work because I ended up waffling. The second one laughed at something inappropriate so I didn't go back!! Maybe 3rd time lucky with that one?

 

Ok...so find a third. Give them three sessions only and tell them all you have posted here. If after three sessions, you do not feel this person can help you...find another.

 

Watered down? Were there two young children and a babysitter to get home to?

 

Surely you realize a single woman with no children can spend all the recreational time in the world, as opposed to a mother (your wife) who cares for two young children 24/7.

 

It seems that you want to remain devoted to your children, and it is sooooo much easier when you only have them every other weekend and an occasional week night.

 

Does your OW want marriage, a home, and children with you?

[turnera]

andrew, a couple things going on here. One, it appears you've never really had to grow up mentally. As in, you've never really dealt with a situation where you are tested and have to show your mettle. Maybe your parents never instilled this in you, I don't know. But it sounds like you were faced with your integrity test and you failed.

 

So what now? Now, you do the right thing, you grow up, you take your licks, you show remorse and humility, and you do the right thing.

 

Two, it appears that you have a desire to have 'fun' in life. As in, if you have a choice, you'll pick fun over integrity. As though you deserve it. Does that sound even remotely accurate?

 

If so, I'd suggest that you start realizing that that isn't what life is for. Life is for making a difference on this planet, leaving it better than you found it, being important to someone, and being able to look at your life, on your deathbed, and see you made the right choices.

 

Cheating is bad, but it can be overcome - IF you learn from it and dedicate to making yourself a person worthy of the people who have given you a second chance.

 

Where are you at?

[Furious]

It seems every response you've given to the posters here, who are really giving solid advice, has been but I want to have fun, I need to have fun, I deserve to be happy and have fun.

 

I don't think you will ever find a counsellor that suits you because you don't really think you are the problem.

[Spark1111]

I know it is important to decide now. Maybe I'm a classic "libra" - I cannot make up my mind unless I am 100% sure I have made the right choice. This decision is never going to be 100% either way and is so life changing, this is why I struggle so much with it.

 

Also for the record, I have been to 2 counsellors on my own. The first one just listened and asked the odd question which I found quite hard work because I ended up waffling. The second one laughed at something inappropriate so I didn't go back!! Maybe 3rd time lucky with that one?

 

No, I think I am the classic Libra.

 

I think you are the classic conflict-avoider with poor communication skills.

 

These two traits are often characteristic of people who cheat on their SOs.

 

The third characteristic is poor self-esteem which often propels one to seek external validation from friends, family, bosses, and colleagues.

 

Andrew, until you learn to validate yourself, stop avoiding conflict, and learn how to identify and express your needs to others, this journey will not change for you.

[thomasb]

Spark, per usual, you have it right. And thank you SomedayDig. See, some of us can learn to speak the truth!

[2sunny]

No, I think I am the classic Libra.

 

I think you are the classic conflict-avoider with poor communication skills.

 

These two traits are often characteristic of people who cheat on their SOs.

 

The third characteristic is poor self-esteem which often propels one to seek external validation from friends, family, bosses, and colleagues.

 

Andrew, until you learn to validate yourself, stop avoiding conflict, and learn how to identify and express your needs to others, this journey will not change for you.

 

Yep. And to take responsibility for the way HE participates with others instead of acting like a victim by proxy. Avoiding making a decision while using multiple people to make YOU feel better - KNOWING FULL WELL you are hurting them makes YOU the perpetrator! The fact that YOU ACT INNOCENT IN IT ALL is despicable!

 

Show some HONOR instead of the cowardly way you have approached life.

 

Stop collecting victims!

 

Stay away from both women- THEY deserve a break from YOU!!!

 

Even BLAMING it all on being a LIBRA shows how removed you are from owning what YOU did!

[andrew9292]

No, I think I am the classic Libra.

 

I think you are the classic conflict-avoider with poor communication skills.

 

These two traits are often characteristic of people who cheat on their SOs.

 

The third characteristic is poor self-esteem which often propels one to seek external validation from friends, family, bosses, and colleagues.

 

Andrew, until you learn to validate yourself, stop avoiding conflict, and learn how to identify and express your needs to others, this journey will not change for you.

 

Probably spot on

[andrew9292]

 

Even BLAMING it all on being a LIBRA shows how removed you are from owning what YOU did!

 

Don't be so ridiculous. Just because I said I act like a typical librarian doesn't mean to say I lay the blame on it!

[2sunny]

There ARE qualities in my astrological sign that I used to carry - but when I decided I didn't like those qualities on ME - I CHANGED them in MYSELF.

 

You can to...

[andrew9292]

I thought almost 2.5 years later I would come back on here and update as to what happened.

 

A few days after posting this thread my wife decided she'd had enough and I was asked to leave. Regretfully I did as I was asked without much fight because in a way it sorted my problem out for me (or so I thought). Not long after this I had massive regrets but it was too late, she had no intention of taking me back. She filed for divorce and it dragged out for around 12 months but resulted in her having custody of the children full time, having the house equity and all of our possessions plus a large lump sum. I was left with my business which provided a salary and allows me to make child support payments.

 

I tried several times to work things through with her, but the defence wall had been built and there was no way it was coming down.

 

I ended up with the OW for a while, but began to resent her. My feelings were that if she hadn't appeared in my life then none of this would have happened. I also realised very quickly that she would never fill the void left by my wife. When I finally broke up with her (my doing), it felt like a relief to get her out of my life and I have not seen her since. I never want to see her again.

 

My now ex wife moved back to her home town approx 100 miles away and started a new life. I offered to move with her and start again, but with hindsight this probably would have been a mistake because I would have been there entirely on her terms and I am not sure the relationship would have lasted when one was vastly in charge. I was genuine in my offer though and would have done it and tried the best I could to save it.

 

I decided that the best thing for me was to seek decent counselling and to spend some time on my own, forget relationships for a while. It was a good thing to do. I was worried about this at first, boredom, loneliness etc but once I'd overcome that it was a good period of my life. I found new friends and started my own new life again. Moved into a newer flat with no bad memories etc and it was good to finally not need someone else to make me happy.

 

Move on to now. I bought my own flat in the city centre a few months ago. I also started a new relationship with someone I have known for quite a few years, we were friends before and it feels very natural. I am very happy with this and will have no intention of straying again.

 

With regards to my ex, we have a fairly distanced relationship now. I speak to the kids every night and have them stay with me every other weekend. However I hardly talk with her since it still feels bitter.

 

One thing that is sad though. When I was with my ex wife (before any of this mess started) she was the 100% person in my life. I will never have that again because there will always be a small part of me that still loves and cares for her. I often think about what happened and my regrets over my actions, it is like a tumour that will never go away. However I also know that I brought it all on myself and know that it was the biggest mistake I ever made.

 

If anyone is considering doing what I did then my advice is don't. You can try to give excuses and reasons why it is a good idea, but I think deep down you really know what you are doing is wrong.

[Rainbowlove]

Thanks for coming back with an update.

 

I'm one year removed from my affair. I was where you were...the back and forth for a bit, then decided to choose my marriage and end the affair. I've gone 367 days now without AP and at times, it's been hard knowing all the damage we caused. I am so very lucky to still have my family together.

 

Sadly, through our biggest mistakes in life we learn who we are and who who don't want to be.

 

Best of luck to you.

[andrew9292]

Thanks for coming back with an update.

 

I'm one year removed from my affair. I was where you were...the back and forth for a bit, then decided to choose my marriage and end the affair. I've gone 367 days now without AP and at times, it's been hard knowing all the damage we caused. I am so very lucky to still have my family together.

 

Sadly, through our biggest mistakes in life we learn who we are and who who don't want to be.

 

Best of luck to you.

 

You've done well, best of luck to you too and I hope you continue with your family.

[Rainbowlove]

I hope this thread gives others who have walked in our shoes the clarity to choose their marriage and family (so long as it was healthy to begin with).

 

When you are in the thick of an affair, you cannot see your marriage or partner clearly and you logically know eveything you are doing is messed up and hurtful to so many innocent lives. There's also a part of you that feels as though you've already destroyed your marriage, integrity, trustworthiness and reconciliation is impossible. Getting out if the toxic mess you'be created is so difficult. There's also a part of you that believes now all you have is the AP and you are in this "together." It's warped thinking.

 

If there are ppl out there whose partners are willing to fight, forgive and save your marriage, take it. It will not be easy. The road back is bumpy, manic and unpredictable, but many marriages survive. Don't feel like it's too late to save it. Don't give up on yourself. You are worthy even though you feel like the biggest POS in the world. End your affair. Go back home. Start over. Fight with all your might to return. Your marriage won't be the same, maybe it shouldn't be the same marriage.

 

My partner and I are rediscovering our relationship. 20 years together. Each day together, each day without AP gives us strength and renewed commitment.

 

Recovery is possible.

[happyman64]

Andrew

 

Not to open old wounds but the clarity you are showing today tells me that the 2.5 years of time helped you find yourself again.

 

I am happy for you.

 

One question though.

 

Did you ever put in writing an apology to your Exwife for your past selfishness?

 

I think some of the items you wrote at 9:15 would be something she might want to see from you.

 

If you think it would be healing and not open old wounds.

 

HM

[beach]

I guess you've learned that everyone has a limit as to the abuse (cheating, lies) they are willing to tolerate.

 

Have you set things right with both women you harmed? Have you apologized and admitted that harm you caused and attempted to repair the damage?

 

 

I'm glad you've learned to be happy on your own but even now, with this new woman, you seem to be pining away for your exW who you hurt very much. Why? That's not right for your new gal.

 

What have you changed about your old selfish attitude?

 

 

Divorce is sad - but what is more sad is staying and causing more pain. So I'm glad you divorced - now your exW has a chance to find a loyal man with integrity.

 

I hope you stay in gratitude and treat others kindly.

[maaz3231]

Is it so badly wrong to want to do what you enjoy doing in life?

 

When it's at the expense of others quality of life, I would say yes.