"left over" fears....

[Spark1111]

My H would rather have needles stuck in his eyes than discuss the affair!

 

It almost broke me as I made it a sticking point and almost divorced over it.

 

As I heal through talking and reading and introspecting (Hello, former journalist here) he heals and shows remorse and love through acts of service.

 

It took me, us, a long time to realize we had very different love languages (yes, Snow, a book I read reluctantly and found some value in).

 

Your thoughts and the fear they provoke are completely normal FS. Nothing irrational about it. Very normal, is what we are all trying to tell you.

 

If tomorrow you left him, you would be fine. You would take your excellent coping skills, your kindness, and bring them wherever you go, to WHOMEVER you may meet.

 

There is a fire in the kitchen (a marriage) and the WS solves the problem by throwing a grenade into the living room and burns the house down.

 

Their AP lights the match.

 

If that isn't a sign of poor coping skills and mental instability, I don't know what is.....and ANY mental health professional will tell you the same.

 

Do not sell yourself short, even if your fear and panic take hold of you now and then.

[2sure]

You know, I don't know much about much..but I have a suspicion that getting past it, IT, whether you have stayed or not...trusting again...I think may at some point involve embracing it, accepting it, and realizing that something is better because it happened.

 

I suspect that.

[MissBee]

Your fears are perfectly rational. If you were with a man who had never cheated, but were constantly on high alert fearing he was -that would be irrational, but in this case, it makes sense.

 

I've never had to forgive someone who cheated so can't say I know from experience. In fact, I am scared of attempting a reconciliation if that were to happen (which I hope it doesn't), as I'm scared that I would never be able to get over that fear. It depends on how huge the fear is though, that determines if you can reconcile or not. It doesn't seem like it is a constant presence for you where you are on edge all the time.

 

I think once you lose the innocence of your relationship through betrayal, that is one of the residuals. My only advice is that, you can't control what another chooses to do, and realizing this brings me peace. You can't be there to monitor their every mood and you shouldn't have to. Everytime you get in a car, you could die. But it doesn't help you to think about all the possibilities of accidents and injury before you get aroun d the wheel, that doesn't prepare you, it makes you terrified to live your life and go about your day! It's the same with worrying about cheating. You have to be aware but hyper-awareness won't really stop it from happening, only your spouse can stop it. Hyperawareness just makes you feel irrational and sometimes crippled.

 

When you're feeling fearful or insecure, you should talk it through with him and seek reassurance from him. You guys have worked things out and all you can do is trust that it is up to him to know how to handle himself the next time he is stressed...the burden shouldn't be on you to save him from an affair. He knows how it affected you and if he knows your latent fears, you have to trust that he won't repeat it and be observant but not hyper worried about it. Also, even IF he were to, the truth is: life would go on for you. It would suck. But it would go on. Nothing's the end of the world, except the end of the world. Thinking like that helps me to let go of things I can't control and things I worry about happening that even if they did...life would go on.

[Spark1111]

FS,

 

You made a comment that very much reflected exactly what I thought about single women!

 

All of my H's OW were young, attractive, and single and probably had many single guys lined up to date them. Why did they deliberately set their sights on my H?

 

God willing, they will maybe, someday, embark on a lot of therapy to understand why they sought and became engaged with an unavailable man.

 

Daddy issues? Self-esteem issues? Lack of confidence issues? Competition issues? Feel empowered snaring away a man already commited to another woman? Mommy issues?

 

Because there are few actions as self=destructive as becoming involved with a man or woman already commited to another.

 

Think about that FS. How sad is that?

[Spark1111]

Your fears are perfectly rational. If you were with a man who had never cheated, but were constantly on high alert fearing he was -that would be irrational, but in this case, it makes sense.

 

I've never had to forgive someone who cheated so can't say I know from experience. In fact, I am scared of attempting a reconciliation if that were to happen (which I hope it doesn't), as I'm scared that I would never be able to get over that fear. It depends on how huge the fear is though, that determines if you can reconcile or not. It doesn't seem like it is a constant presence for you where you are on edge all the time.

 

I think once you lose the innocence of your relationship through betrayal, that is one of the residuals. My only advice is that, you can't control what another chooses to do, and realizing this brings me peace. You can't be there to monitor their every mood and you shouldn't have to. Everytime you get in a car, you could die. But it doesn't help you to think about all the possibilities of accidents and injury before you get aroun d the wheel, that doesn't prepare you, it makes you terrified to live your life and go about your day! It's the same with worrying about cheating. You have to be aware but hyper-awareness won't really stop it from happening, only your spouse can stop it. Hyperawareness just makes you feel irrational and sometimes crippled.

 

When you're feeling fearful or insecure, you should talk it through with him and seek reassurance from him. You guys have worked things out and all you can do is trust that it is up to him to know how to handle himself the next time he is stressed...the burden shouldn't be on you to save him from an affair. He knows how it affected you and if he knows your latent fears, you have to trust that he won't repeat it and be observant but not hyper worried about it. Also, even IF he were to, the truth is: life would go on for you. It would suck. But it would go on. Nothing's the end of the world, except the end of the world. Thinking like that helps me to let go of things I can't control and things I worry about happening that even if they did...life would go on.

 

Great post Miss Bee! And very wise!

 

It takes time to get to this centered, confident feeling of peace, or time to get back to it after an affair.

 

Maybe you just need more time.

[Silly_Girl]

FS, I've not read the thread so you've probably had all manner of useful, good advice.

 

My ex-SO (we split early 2009) treated me badly, including cheating. I spent time ridding myself of initial and urgent worries and concerns when we split up, and did so fairly quickly. It took a long time for me to realise how much residual stuff there is. I'm not in a position of needing to trust HIM, but I need to trust in relationships and I'm finding it hard, which is why your post stood out for me.

 

I do think you're putting a lot on yourself by saying 'it's me, it's me, he's being great'. It's not you, it's the two of you. His actions left you feeling this way and he's progressing well on some of his own stuff - which is grand - but you as a couple have more to do, hence your post.

 

I also think you need to trust yourself more. You're not a fool, you're a bright lady who has worked/is working very hard on matters to try and get the best possible outcome. I think you WOULD see signs from your H if he set foot down that path again. I think you would know if distance crept in. I think you need to trust yourself. In my situation the wife wagged her finger and said 'don't do it again', nothing in the R changed, communication was non-existent and they were to pretend nothing happened. Of course she had no clue when he came back to me and was stunned when he moved out. THAT sort of marriage is not the sort you have. I can't tell you not to worry, but I do think that if you were an outsider looking in you'd trust this you, now, much more than the old you, then, to make good decisions and be rational.

 

Hope this passes for you.

[Stellar Wench]

So, think of it this way FS....

 

You will NEVER be that dumb and naive again.

 

You will never allow your spouse or SO to have an opposite sex friend who is NOT a friend to the marriage.

 

You will visit the workplace and know the work colleagues so that they know you. You will call, text and email your spouse and expect a response as quickly as possible.

 

You will not accept the old excuses of job stress, life stress from him or anyone else as a reason to not devote time to each other and the marriage.

 

If something doesn't jive for you, you will express it and reserve the right to examine it together more closely as a couple.

 

You will be able to spot a woman or man on the prowl in a heartbeat now.

 

So yes, there was loss and both of you must live with it.

 

But think of all the power and confidence you've gained.

 

I too wish I didn't have a PH. D. in Affairology.

 

But those of us who have survived infidelity are --or will be-- so much stronger because of it.

Personally, I couldn't be bothered to babysit a grown man like this.

 

It's ok to decide you will trust, knowing you will implement consequences should there be another incident.

[Steen719]

Even though I am no longer with my serial cheating ex, and do not trust ...oh, anyone:

 

I still do not believe once a cheater always a cheater ..and also want to share with other BS here who have stayed -

 

It takes a really sick kind of WS to be a repeat offender , especially after the work of reconciliation and rebuilding has been done.

 

Your WS took it on, held themselves accountable and worked with you on your marriage. Thats a real Investment.

 

 

 

I don't have any idea if I will trust someone again after the double beating from XH, but my guess is no, just as you said. I have thought about that because it makes me sad to think I may judge someone by another person's actions, but I guess that is something I MIGHT have to deal with at some point. I don't think I was naive enough to think he couldn't do it again, I just thought he wouldn't (If that makes sense). Funny, people are always saying that I'll find someone who will make me happy and treat me well and I know they mean well, but I just think to myself, what would I do with them?? I don't know that I would or could give it my all. That keeps me thinking that I might never have another relationship, but since I can't predict the future...who knows??

[BetrayedH]

I don't have any idea if I will trust someone again after the double beating from XH, but my guess is no, just as you said. I have thought about that because it makes me sad to think I may judge someone by another person's actions, but I guess that is something I MIGHT have to deal with at some point. I don't think I was naive enough to think he couldn't do it again, I just thought he wouldn't (If that makes sense). Funny, people are always saying that I'll find someone who will make me happy and treat me well and I know they mean well, but I just think to myself, what would I do with them?? I don't know that I would or could give it my all. That keeps me thinking that I might never have another relationship, but since I can't predict the future...who knows??

 

I wish there was an, "Agree but Dislike" button. I never got to the fully reconciled stage but after 7 months of reconciling, to have discovered broken NC and all of the lies (after she had professed straight to my face that she had learned her lesson and would never lie to me again), how do you trust anyone again? I didn't have a second Dday but it sure felt like a double beating. How do you ever go in again with both feet? What kind of relationship is it if you don't? Something huge has been stolen from us; perhaps others have reached a point of acceptance.

[Steen719]

I wish there was an, "Agree but Dislike" button. I never got to the fully reconciled stage but after 7 months of reconciling, to have discovered broken NC and all of the lies (after she had professed straight to my face that she had learned her lesson and would never lie to me again), how do you trust anyone again? I didn't have a second Dday but it sure felt like a double beating. How do you ever go in again with both feet? What kind of relationship is it if you don't? Something huge has been stolen from us; perhaps others have reached a point of acceptance.

 

Yeah, me too! I'm not all that happy about feeling that way, but it is what it is.

 

That question might keep me from going into another relationship. But, maybe with time will come perspective, idk. It's too early for me to do anything about it, in any case. Any relationship that I would get into now would be too premature and while it might provide a distraction, I would most likely still have the issues that I need to deal with before anything else.

 

Anyway, the fear is most likely going to be there no matter what or who and that is a residual I don't think will go away. That is not pessimism, but I think it is realistic.

[frozensprouts]

thanks for all the replies...they are greatly appreciated. Sometimes i wonder if other people who have reconciled feel these things too...kind of glad to know I am not alone...it's less "crazy making" that way:laugh:

 

tonight my husband has gone to a friends ( he called and asked if he could come over)...

 

this guy is dealing with his wife's infidelity, and my husband tries to be supportive....he comes home sometimes and tells me the things this guy's wife says/does, and they sound so familiar....just the kinds of things he was saying and doing when he was cheating....

 

i listened, but hadn't pointed that out...last night, i think it finally hit him.... from out of nowhere he apologized again for what he had done....

 

we talked bout it, and i told him how i'd been feeling, and he said that he could to reassure me as best as he could...also told me how stupid he felt about the whole thing with her ( he never uses her name...calls her "you know who"...not out of blame or her but because he doesn't want to hurt me by using her name...doesn't make much of a difference to me, but i appreciate the thought behind it...

 

I think i'll just have to accept that my sense of "unconditional love" from him is gone...i know now all love has conditions, and that while i may know him better than anyone else does, I'll never completely know him...but that's okay...maybe were aren't ever meant to "totally" know another...

 

i think i'd feel the same way no matter who i was with... i can trust someone i love more than i trust anyone else, but the 100%trust is reserved for myself alone...even if we split up and i was with someone else, i think I'd still feel that way

 

I also know, both from the experience of his infidelity and from the knowledge that I could easily loose him some other way ( he's a deployable combat soldier) that I have to be able to be okay on my own , and that i have to be able to be strong enough to be there for my children on my own...h@ll, when it comes right down to it, I really have no choice. On one hand, that's very depressing, but on the other, it's a very good thing. If I have to, I can be on my own, I can do for myself. I can be there for my children and give them what they need on my own...it may be hard at first, but I am, as the saying goes " a tough old bird' ( or so my son told me the other day..he looked at me and in his innocence told me "mommy, you're really old" ) and I could be just fine.

That was one of the things I told him after we reconciled...I told him that i hadn't decided to stay because I had to, but because I wanted to. It was a choice i was making because I loved him enough to make it, not because I was too afraid not to. It wasn't choice made out of desperation, running away from a bad situation, and it didn't" it just happen"...rather, it was a choice made with much thought, consideration and love.

Perhaps that is something a wayward spouse needs to know when their betrayed spouse makes the choice to reconcile...that probably aren't making that choice lightly...they have seen what they can do on their own, they have seen they will be okay, they have experienced the "freedom" from being weighed down by knowing their spouse was unfaithful and the work of trying to move on and trust them again...yet, they made the choice to stay with you in spite of all that because they love you...they love you enough and think you and your marriage is worth the damned hard work it will take to feel "right" again...their love is the type that is deep, abiding and strong and doesn't require "dramatics' to prove it's self. every day they make the choice to stay should be proof of it's very strength.

If your spouse wasn't able to reconcile...that's too bad, but totally understandable. Please be as good to them as you can, and don't make it any harder on them than it has to be... they are already hurting enough.

[Steen719]

Frozenspouts,

Your last post made me think about something I had not thought about in a pretty long time. When this last bout happened with my XH, we went to a counselor who supposedly specialized in infidelity. She told us her story (which I did not think was the right thing to do) about her husband. He had cheated on her with her best friend and they split up for a while. I believe this was about 6 years prior, but I am not sure I remember that correctly.They worked through it and he was so remorseful and wrote her this long letter about how sorry he was and she showed it to us. It was filled with love words, what a good person she was, how he was regretful, how he wanted his son to be a better man, blah, blah, blah. All wonderful, right?

 

Then, she told me that he had been in touch with the OW about 6 months ago (at that time) and that she had discovered it. Good grief! I don't know what happened in the reconnection but I got the impression he was getting pulled back in and the wife, our counselor, reigned him in. Ahhhh, it was so discouraging and that is how I felt. Discouraged. Here was this letter of love and remorse and regret and there he is, back at it.

 

I know my view is skewed by my experiences, but honestly, I think you are the kind of person who does or doesn't. You might never do it again, but I don't believe that every person would cheat, given the right opportunity. I have never cheated on anyone I was with and the truth of it is, that is more about me than them and it always will be.

[frozensprouts]

 

I know my view is skewed by my experiences, but honestly, I think you are the kind of person who does or doesn't. You might never do it again, but I don't believe that every person would cheat, given the right opportunity. I have never cheated on anyone I was with and the truth of it is, that is more about me than them and it always will be.

 

I agree with this...

 

I know myself well enough to know that i wouldn't cheat...for several reasons, including that i don't want to hurt anyone like that, it seems way too complicated, I'm terrible at lying, it seems really pointless to me,etc., etc., etc.

 

perhaps it is possible ( and I am still not sure of this one way or the other) for someone who was the kind of person who "does" (cheat) to become the kind of person who "doesn't' ( cheat)....but i really do think that such a change would be because someone made a fundamental shift to how they chose to "problem solve" in a relationship ( fight vs. flight- staying to fight for the relationship or choosing to run away and hide from the problems by cheating). Perhaps if one cheated because of poor boundaries, they could learn a better sense of personal/relationship boundaries so they don't cross that line again...

perhaps too, some people just are not cut out to be with one person...it's just not in their nature to not always want what they don't have- no one relationship, no matter how good, will ever be enough for them

[Spark1111]

Personally, I couldn't be bothered to babysit a grown man like this.

 

It's ok to decide you will trust, knowing you will implement consequences should there be another incident.

 

It's not babysitting. It is mutually agreed to actions based on good boundaries and the desire to have NO secret compartments to our lives, ever again.

[Spark1111]

I agree with this...

 

I know myself well enough to know that i wouldn't cheat...for several reasons, including that i don't want to hurt anyone like that, it seems way too complicated, I'm terrible at lying, it seems really pointless to me,etc., etc., etc.

 

perhaps it is possible ( and I am still not sure of this one way or the other) for someone who was the kind of person who "does" (cheat) to become the kind of person who "doesn't' ( cheat)....but i really do think that such a change would be because someone made a fundamental shift to how they chose to "problem solve" in a relationship ( fight vs. flight- staying to fight for the relationship or choosing to run away and hide from the problems by cheating). Perhaps if one cheated because of poor boundaries, they could learn a better sense of personal/relationship boundaries so they don't cross that line again...

perhaps too, some people just are not cut out to be with one person...it's just not in their nature to not always want what they don't have- no one relationship, no matter how good, will ever be enough for them

 

FS, I have less of a problem with someon who cannot do monogamy, then someone who want the stability of a wife and family and the fun of a paramour on the side.

 

Selfish, selfish, selfish.

 

I will and do trust, but now I verify. Nothing wrong with that as I have now come to believe that people who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.

 

And if he or I need reassurance of fidelity, it's okay. We ask for or seek it and our partner, if they really care for us, go out out their way to provide it.

 

I cannot swear I will never experience infidelity again, either in this relationship or any other. NO ONE CAN.

 

But, I am pretty sure I will sniff out gaslighting quickly, should it happen to me again, because I will never trust blindly and innocently again.

 

So I am also pretty sure I will never be gaslighted again, not for long. Not like last time.

 

I take some empowerment from that. Yes! Something lost, but something gained as in all painful life lessons learned.

[beenburned]

FS,

 

You know, I would like to think most of the former WS's have grown and matured within themselves, to the point that if they face a similar temptation in the future, they would say NO to the situation.

 

However, I have read threads on the OW forum where they feel like once a WS has cheated, they are more likely to do it again.

 

So does it all depend on why the WS cheated in the first place, as to whether a reconciliation might be successful?

[frozensprouts]

FS,

 

You know, I would like to think most of the former WS's have grown and matured within themselves, to the point that if they face a similar temptation in the future, they would say NO to the situation.

 

However, I have read threads on the OW forum where they feel like once a WS has cheated, they are more likely to do it again.

 

So does it all depend on why the WS cheated in the first place, as to whether a reconciliation might be successful?

 

makes sense...

I do wonder, though, why someone would choose to get involved ( as an OW) with someone who they knew had issues with fidelity ( a serial cheater)....unless , of course, faithfulness in their partner was not important to them...

 

I also really believe that we can never know someone 100%...there will always be a part of themselves that they keep to themselves...maybe not on purpose, but it's there

[beenburned]

FS,

 

On another board I used to post on, I asked that exact question to the OW.

Why would they knowingly get involved with a serial cheater?

 

Some said fidelity was not important to them, some said as long as he was faithful to them his history didn't matter, and some only found out after being involved with the MM for a while.(by that time they were in love and thought they could change him)

[Steen719]

makes sense...

I do wonder, though, why someone would choose to get involved ( as an OW) with someone who they knew had issues with fidelity ( a serial cheater)....unless , of course, faithfulness in their partner was not important to them...

 

I also really believe that we can never know someone 100%...there will always be a part of themselves that they keep to themselves...maybe not on purpose, but it's there

 

I think some OW or just W who get involved with someone who has cheated or is cheating think they (W) are so special that the man won't cheat on them. They may also have a history. Example: my XH (cheated at least 2x on me and I would bet on others) is with a woman who knows this, knows the circumstances, but she has also been married 3x. I have no idea what happened in those marriages. Anyway, between the 2 of them, they have some issues, huh? Maybe they are feeling desperate or special or something else, but I know that if I knew that someone had cheated on his spouse, I would run as far as these old legs would take me.

[frozensprouts]

FS,

 

On another board I used to post on, I asked that exact question to the OW.

Why would they knowingly get involved with a serial cheater?

 

Some said fidelity was not important to them, some said as long as he was faithful to them his history didn't matter, and some only found out after being involved with the MM for a while.(by that time they were in love and thought they could change him)

 

I feel really bad for the single person who gets involved with someone only to find out, after they have developed an attachment to them, that they are married...

 

as for the idea that someone's past doesn't matter, as long as they are faithful to them...the very fact that they are cheating on their spouse is an act of infidelity, and would indicate that they don't really have an issue with cheating ( at that point in time)

[frozensprouts]

I think some OW or just W who get involved with someone who has cheated or is cheating think they (W) are so special that the man won't cheat on them. They may also have a history. Example: my XH (cheated at least 2x on me and I would bet on others) is with a woman who knows this, knows the circumstances, but she has also been married 3x. I have no idea what happened in those marriages. Anyway, between the 2 of them, they have some issues, huh? Maybe they are feeling desperate or special or something else, but I know that if I knew that someone had cheated on his spouse, I would run as far as these old legs would take me.

 

Maybe a single person who gets involved with a formerly married person, who had cheated, but has been through a lot of counseling and self discovery could trust this person not to cheat...

 

but if someone simply divorces ( or doesn't and is still married) and does nothing to try and figure out why they cheated so they don't make that choice again, they will have nothing, and may view cheating as an acceptable ( if somewhat "distasteful") way to solve a problem in their relationship...

[MissBee]

FS,

 

You know, I would like to think most of the former WS's have grown and matured within themselves, to the point that if they face a similar temptation in the future, they would say NO to the situation.

However, I have read threads on the OW forum where they feel like once a WS has cheated, they are more likely to do it again.

So does it all depend on why the WS cheated in the first place, as to whether a reconciliation might be successful?

 

I think so. I do think some people can genuinely have a lapse in judgment or choose at the time to cheat, then not do it again, as it was not a fundamental part of their worldview or character. I think other people, like my dad, who is a serial cheater, have some fundamental problem that they don't address, don't think they need to address and are just compulsive about cheating. I think the difference between the two is apparent, just a matter of whether or not the BS is willing to see it or not. A person who had a lapse in judgment and who is willing to be better, do better and work on their marriage will be transparent, honest, actually do the work and will actually change in obvious ways. Someone who is not....it shows and I don't think they will be 100% into the necessary steps of reconciliation, but may want more of a quick solution or continue to hide, be defensive etc.

 

I think it is possible to be a one time cheater and it does depend on why you did it and your fundamental personality makeup. I don't think cheating once is like a gateway drug to more cheating. I think those who are serial cheaters, ALREADY had a problem, that manifested in cheating, and some have an addiction to cheating/sex. It wasn't as though they were fine, cheated and because of that one time they become out of control chronic cheaters. I think the two types of WS's exhibit who they are in their overall personality and history.

Edited June 18, 2012 by MissBee

[Spark1111]

I think so. I do think some people can genuinely have a lapse in judgment or choose at the time to cheat, then not do it again, as it was not a fundamental part of their worldview or character. I think other people, like my dad, who is a serial cheater, have some fundamental problem that they don't address, don't think they need to address and are just compulsive about cheating. I think the difference between the two is apparent, just a matter of whether or not the BS is willing to see it or not. A person who had a lapse in judgment and who is willing to be better, do better and work on their marriage will be transparent, honest, actually do the work and will actually change in obvious ways. Someone who is not....it shows and I don't think they will be 100% into the necessary steps of reconciliation, but may want more of a quick solution or continue to hide, be defensive etc.

 

I think it is possible to be a one time cheater and it does depend on why you did it and your fundamental personality makeup. I don't think cheating once is like a gateway drug to more cheating. I think those who are serial cheaters, ALREADY had a problem, that manifested in cheating, and some have an addiction to cheating/sex. It wasn't as though they were fine, cheated and because of that one time they become out of control chronic cheaters. I think the two types of WS's exhibit who they are in their overall personality and history.

 

I do not believe once a cheater, always a cheater.

 

If I did, I would not have attempted reconciliation.

 

However, I do believe IF a cheater ISN'T CAUGHT, and the AFFAIR EXPOSED, I think the very real possibility exists for someone to have another affair down the road.

 

Why? Well, it worked the first time didn't it? With no great impact on their lives or their marriages or their family life as there were NO consequences and no changes in their behavior demanded nor measured.

 

No one found out, so no one got hurt, so, if the opportunity arose again, well then, I do have an sporadic, extracurricular new hobby, now don't I?

 

There is a mindset amongst certain men and women, certainly in certain industries that what the spouse doesn't know won't hurt them.

 

I love my spouse and my family, so what's wrong with some fun and flattery on the side if no one ever finds out?

 

That is why every good infidelity site encourages the exposure of the affair, not to punish the affairees, but to burst the selfish secrecy bubble and ALLOW consequences to those actions.

 

Consequences to actions not only breeds maturity in relationship, it educates the cheater to the importance of communication and respect in long-term relationships.

 

Everyone is now on the same page and can make informed choices regarding both the relationship and their futures.

 

Pretty mature, no? Actually being forced to act like adults.

 

Consequences are a good thing.

[beenburned]

Spark,

 

I agree totally!

 

Your post was exactly the attitude/mindset my H had at that time. He was surrounded by other co-workers who bragged about their conquests like teenagers.

 

My H wasn't caught until the 3rd OW because all the flings were conducted during normal business hours or lunch hours. I found out when a co-workers wife called to tell me what all he and their H's had been up to.

 

The other couples had no children, so there were multiple fast divorces among them. H now got to listen to their moaning and groaning about child support/alimony.

 

The only reason I finally gave him a second chance was for our 2 young children. I came back on a trial basis only because I really didn't think he was capable of complete change. But he surprised me!

 

I really feel like if H had gotten caught with the 1st OW, and had to face all the consequences then, there wouldn't have been a 2nd or 3rd OW.