Why Do People think Lowly Of Hookers?

[KathyM]

He promised you, so that's on him. Nobody else but him.

It takes two to commit adultery--the cheater and the enabler. Without the enabler, there would be no cheating. Unfortunately, there are women, both paid and unpaid, who are all too willing to help a man cheat on his wife, and as long as there are women willing to do that, there will be men wanting to take advantage of it.

[123321]

"Prostitution cannot eliminate rape when it is itself bought rape."

 

That's pretty much all I need to know about their studies.

[KathyM]

If something is disabled, it cannot happen. If something is not facilitated, it's potentially more difficult. Do you really want to contend that without prostitutes there would be no adultery, or would you like to start using the right word(s)?

 

 

 

 

No, you don't. You have the right to pursue happiness by seeking a guy who will keep his promises to you but you don't have a right to find him, marry him, or "have him" in any other way. You don't have the right to force him to be faithful. You don't have the right to force other women to stay away from him in their individual pursuit(s) of happiness.

 

To promote proscription of prostitution on the reasoning that it facilitates adultery would be the same as proscribing all forms of fornication on the same grounds, which is a bridge to crazyville I don't think many people are willing to cross with you.

Here is Dictionary.com's definition of enabler:

 

en·a·ble

 

  <a onmousedown="spk(this,{lk:'nx1fkx',en:'wotdau',io:'0',b:'wotd',tp:'lrl',m:'wotdau'})" href="#"></a><a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/E01/E0152800"><img border="0" src="http://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/g/d/speaker.gif"></a> /ɛnˈeɪbəl/ [/url] Show Spelled[en-ey-buhl] Show IPA

verb (used with object), en·a·bled, en·a·bling. 1. to make able; give power, means, competence, or ability to; authorize

 

2. to make possible or easy: Aeronautics enables us to overcome great distances.

 

3. to make ready; equip (often used in combination): Web-enabled cell phones.

 

So that's Dictionary.com's definition of enabling: To make able, give means to or ability to, to make possible or make easy. Sounds pretty accurate in describing a prostitute as enabling, or making easy/possible for a man to cheat on his wife. I don't know why you and Madam Chauncer have such a problem with that word, since, according to these definitions, it would apply. And why do you keep insisting on bringing fornication into this argument? Not all fornication is adultery. My argument here is that the majority of customers of prostitutes are married men--thereby prostitution enables adultery, and that is it's primary function--to enable married men to cheat on their wives.

[123321]

.... why do you keep insisting on bringing fornication into this argument? Not all fornication is adultery. My argument here is that the majority of customers of prostitutes are married men--thereby prostitution enables adultery, and that is it's primary function--to enable married men to cheat on their wives.

 

Just because people get married and fornicate, doesn't mean we can outlaw fornication. Just because people get drunk and then drive, doesn't mean we should outlaw cars, or alcohol. We may decide to outlaw drunk driving, however.

 

Your "argument" is even more tangential, taking the analogy above another step to make it conform to your argument, you are proposing to make beer illegal while permitting other forms of alcoholic beverages, because beer has been shown to be drunk by the majority of people who drive drunk.

 

So the logical question to ask people who are in favor of legally discouraging adultery would be "shall we make it illegal?"

 

So what is it you want to proscribe, exactly? Because this thread is about prostitution, not adultery. If you want to make adultery illegal, please say so clearly, and maybe start a thread about that, or move someplace where it is illegal already if you think that's the sort of society you would enjoy.

[KathyM]

That's pretty much all I need to know about their studies.

A lot of prostitutes are victims of rape by their customers. The vast majority have been raped by their customers. The vast majority of non-prostitute rapes are date rapes, and that figure is not likely going to go down because of prostitution being legalized. Highly unlikely the stranger rapist figures would go down either because of legalized prostitution, as the articles demonstrate also. Prostitution puts women at risk of being raped, since they are alone with a stranger. If anything, the rape figures would go up because of prostitution, with women (prostitutes) who put themselves in a vulnerable position with a stranger being more likely to be raped than if they were not a prostitute, and non-prostitutes not being any less likely to be raped because there are prostitutes.

[123321]

Here is Dictionary.com's definition of enabler:

 

en·a·ble

 

  <a onmousedown="spk(this,{lk:'nx1fkx',en:'wotdau',io:'0',b:'wotd',tp:'lrl',m:'wotdau'})" href="#"></a><a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/E01/E0152800"><img border="0" src="http://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/g/d/speaker.gif"></a> /ɛnˈeɪbəl/ [/url] Show Spelled[en-ey-buhl] Show IPA

verb (used with object), en·a·bled, en·a·bling. 1. to make able; give power, means, competence, or ability to; authorize

 

2. to make possible or easy: Aeronautics enables us to overcome great distances.

 

3. to make ready; equip (often used in combination): Web-enabled cell phones.

 

So that's Dictionary.com's definition of enabling: To make able, give means to or ability to, to make possible or make easy.

 

No, that was enable, and on top of that you are reading it poorly.

 

enabling

Verb:

1 - Give (someone or something) the authority or means to do something.

2 - Make possible.

 

Neither of those make sense in the context you are using them in. Men are not authorized by prostitutes to commit adultery, nor are they given the means to do something they would otherwise be unable to do.

 

 

Further, the term enabler, while derived from enable, has a very specific meaning:

 

Definition of ENABLER

 

: one that enables another to achieve an end; especially : one who enables another to persist in self-destructive behavior (as substance abuse) by providing excuses or by making it possible to avoid the consequences of such behavior

 

 

However, in the end it's meaningless because you are promoting the idea of making something illegal for me to do based on a promise someone else made to you. That frankly is just goofy.

[123321]

A lot of prostitutes are victims of rape by their customers.

 

OK, but that's not what they are saying. They are saying that when a hooker has sex, she is being raped. Read it carefully.

[Nicomis]

Here is Dictionary.com's definition of enabler:

 

en·a·ble

 

  <a onmousedown="spk(this,{lk:'nx1fkx',en:'wotdau',io:'0',b:'wotd',tp:'lrl',m:'wotdau'})" href="#"></a><a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/E01/E0152800"><img border="0" src="http://static.sfdict.com/dictstatic/g/d/speaker.gif"></a> /ɛnˈeɪbəl/ [/url] Show Spelled[en-ey-buhl] Show IPA

verb (used with object), en·a·bled, en·a·bling. 1. to make able; give power, means, competence, or ability to; authorize

 

2. to make possible or easy: Aeronautics enables us to overcome great distances.

 

3. to make ready; equip (often used in combination): Web-enabled cell phones.

 

So that's Dictionary.com's definition of enabling: To make able, give means to or ability to, to make possible or make easy. Sounds pretty accurate in describing a prostitute as enabling, or making easy/possible for a man to cheat on his wife. I don't know why you and Madam Chauncer have such a problem with that word, since, according to these definitions, it would apply. And why do you keep insisting on bringing fornication into this argument? Not all fornication is adultery. My argument here is that the majority of customers of prostitutes are married men--thereby prostitution enables adultery, and that is it's primary function--to enable married men to cheat on their wives.

OK seriously, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you have posted supports the idea that the primary function of prostitution is to make married men cheat. NOTHING. NOTHING you have posted supports the idea that mostly married men visit prostitutes, and even if it did, that would NOT prove or even give credit to, the ridiculous idea that prostitution's main function is to make married men cheat. The fixation you have with enabling is insane! Twinkies enable housewives to get fat. Wives getting fat damages the marriage, so by your logic Twinkies should be illegal. I challenge you to look at the sources you have quoted. Did you find this somewhere in the man-hating section of the Agnes Scott College Library. NONE of anything those people say can hold up in an argument between intelligent people.

[KathyM]

Just because people get married and fornicate, doesn't mean we can outlaw fornication. Just because people get drunk and then drive, doesn't mean we should outlaw cars, or alcohol. We may decide to outlaw drunk driving, however.

 

Your "argument" is even more tangential, taking the analogy above another step to make it conform to your argument, you are proposing to make beer illegal while permitting other forms of alcoholic beverages, because beer has been shown to be drunk by the majority of people who drive drunk.

 

So the logical question to ask people who are in favor of legally discouraging adultery would be "shall we make it illegal?"

 

So what is it you want to proscribe, exactly? Because this thread is about prostitution, not adultery. If you want to make adultery illegal, please say so clearly, and maybe start a thread about that, or move someplace where it is illegal already if you think that's the sort of society you would enjoy.

I'm not suggesting we outlaw fornication. I'm suggesting we outlaw prostitution, since it is harmful to marriages and families, it is degrading to women and children, it promotes human trafficking and exploitation of women and children, and puts them at risk of abuse and violence.

 

I'm not suggesting we outlaw drinking. I'm suggesting we outlaw drunk driving to protect society from drunk drivers.

 

Fortunately, in the U.S., we do have laws against drunk driving and against prostitution, and I'm glad to live in a society where these two things are still considered harmful to society, because they are harmful to society.

[123321]

OK let's try to organize this mental disaster area.

 

I'm not suggesting we outlaw fornication. I'm suggesting we outlaw prostitution, since it is harmful to marriages and families, it is degrading to women and children, it promotes human trafficking and exploitation of women and children, and puts them at risk of abuse and violence.

 

True or false:

 

You are proposing that the proscription of prostitution is just because:

1. it is harmful to marriages and families
2. it is degrading to women and children
3. it promotes human trafficking and exploitation of women and children, and puts them at risk of abuse and violence.

[Nicomis]

OK let's try to organize this mental disaster area.

 

 

 

True or false:

 

You are proposing that the proscription of prostitution is just because:

1. it is harmful to marriages and families
2. it is degrading to women and children
3. it promotes human trafficking and exploitation of women and children, and puts them at risk of abuse and violence.

 

You forgot 4. Because a man might derive some pleasure from it.

[123321]

You forgot 4. Because a man might derive some pleasure from it.

 

I just want to get them organized and distinct before I start in on them. As it is she lumps those, the kitchen sink, kittens, nuclear bombs and unicorns together in random combinations, and then thinks a point has been made because a dictionary says the opposite of what she thinks it says.

[KathyM]

OK seriously, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you have posted supports the idea that the primary function of prostitution is to make married men cheat. NOTHING. NOTHING you have posted supports the idea that mostly married men visit prostitutes, and even if it did, that would NOT prove or even give credit to, the ridiculous idea that prostitution's main function is to make married men cheat. The fixation you have with enabling is insane! Twinkies enable housewives to get fat. Wives getting fat damages the marriage, so by your logic Twinkies should be illegal. I challenge you to look at the sources you have quoted. Did you find this somewhere in the man-hating section of the Agnes Scott College Library. NONE of anything those people say can hold up in an argument between intelligent people.

I've posted earlier in this thread statistics showing that the majority of customers of prostitutes are married men. There are many articles/studies on this that support that contention. The function of prostitution is to give men sex in exchange for money, but since the majority of men who use their services are married, that means that most of her work consists of helping married men to cheat on their wives. That is not a good thing--not a good profession, and that is one of the reasons why women think lowly of hookers. And with that, I think I have wasted enough time on this subject, so I'll leave it at that. Other posters on this thread and myself have posted articles and studies demonstrating that legalizing prostitution increases human trafficking of women and children, and that many enter the "profession" as children, the majority are raped and abused by customers, a large percentage stay in prostitution to support a drug habit, and the majority of customers are married men cheating on their wives. If that's a profession you want to support, then I feel disgusted by that, but I have said all I'm going to say on this. It's not worth any more of my time. If men insist on being pigs and catering to their penis to the detriment of women, children and families, then I guess they will be pigs, unfortunately.

[Nicomis]

Take a post, strip away logic, and reason, replace it with a feminist agenda, skewed articles from feminist writers, and random dictionary excerpts , and you get what she said.

[123321]

Here are some actual study results:

 

"While men who solicit prostitution are not atypical demographically or in terms of criminal history, they are unsurprisingly and measurably different in terms of a range of attitudes toward women, relationships, and commercial sex... [C]onsumers were

less likely to be happily married than men in national samples

, to have sexually liberal attitudes, and to think about sex more often. Commercial sex participants were also less likely to have been sexually molested as children, or to report having forced women into sexual acts. The differences between samples were not large, but were statistically significant." - Office of Research and Evaluation, National Institute of Justice, March 7, 2008

 

 

 

"Contact [with prostitutes] is higher among those living in metropolitan areas, Blacks, those with lower incomes, veterans (probably when in military service), those who attend church less frequently, and those having gone through a divorce or are currently separated. Among married men

paying for sex during the last 12 months is strongly related to low marital happiness.

" - Project at the National Opinion Research Center, University of Chicago, Mar. 2006

[betterdeal]

That's some spamming you're doing there, KathyM. Scroll, scroll, scroll...

[KathyM]

Here are some actual study results:

"While men who solicit prostitution are not atypical demographically or in terms of criminal history, they are unsurprisingly and measurably different in terms of a range of attitudes toward women, relationships, and commercial sex... [C]onsumers were

less likely to be happily married than men in national samples

, to have sexually liberal attitudes, and to think about sex more often. Commercial sex participants were also less likely to have been sexually molested as children, or to report having forced women into sexual acts. The differences between samples were not large, but were statistically significant." - Office of Research and Evaluation, National Institute of Justice, March 7, 2008

"Contact [with prostitutes] is higher among those living in metropolitan areas, Blacks, those with lower incomes, veterans (probably when in military service), those who attend church less frequently, and those having gone through a divorce or are currently separated. Among married men

paying for sex during the last 12 months is strongly related to low marital happiness.

" - Project at the National Opinion Research Center, University of Chicago, Mar. 2006

No surprise there--married men who go to prostitutes report not being happy in their marriage. I wonder why. Maybe it's because they choose to bang a hooker instead of actually doing something to improve their relationship with their wife.

[FredRutherford]

That's some spamming you're doing there, KathyM. Scroll, scroll, scroll...

Nope. Not spam, but solid info, something often lacking in LS threads.

Agree, however, the posting could've been edited down and more concise.

 

Take a post, strip away logic, and reason, replace it with a feminist agenda, skewed articles from feminist writers, and random dictionary excerpts , and you get what she said.

Can't discern any "feminist" (in the negative sense) tone in Kathy's posts. If anything, her postings display a conservative, traditional rationale, something needed in today's society.

Edited July 7, 2012 by FredRutherford

[123321]

No surprise there--married men who go to prostitutes report not being happy in their marriage. I wonder why. Maybe it's because they choose to bang a hooker instead of actually doing something to improve their relationship with their wife.

 

You're almost certainly mistaking cause and effect again. In any case:

 

True or false:

 

You are proposing that the proscription of prostitution is just because:

1. it is harmful to marriages and families
2. it is degrading to women and children
3. it promotes human trafficking and exploitation of women and children, and puts them at risk of abuse and violence.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

I'm suggesting we outlaw drunk driving to protect society from drunk drivers.

 

 

 

That's a great idea!

 

 

(How is it working out for you???)

[KathyM]

You're almost certainly mistaking cause and effect again. In any case:

 

True or false:

 

 

You are proposing that the proscription of prostitution is just because:

1. it is harmful to marriages and families
   
2. it is degrading to women and children
   
3. it promotes human trafficking and exploitation of women and children, and puts them at risk of abuse and violence.
   

Whether they go to prostitutes because their marriage is unhappy, or their marriage is unhappy because they're using prostitutes as a crutch rather than trying to improve their marriage, or whether they're just scumbags who want some action on the side, the fact is still that they are cheating on their wives with prostitutes, and taking the dishonest, deceitful, harmful approach to their marriage, and the prostitutes are all too willing to help them perpetrate this destructive act against their wife and children.

 

Are those reasons I listed not enough for you? How about because it is psychologically harmful to the women and children? It objectifies women and children. It reduces them to pieces of meat to be bought and sold like cattle. I can think of other reasons, but I think this should suffice as to why it should not be legalized and legitimized, supported or promoted.

[A O]

Whether they go to prostitutes because their marriage is unhappy, or their marriage is unhappy because they're using prostitutes as a crutch rather than trying to improve their marriage, or whether they're just scumbags who want some action on the side, the fact is still that they are cheating on their wives with prostitutes, and taking the dishonest, deceitful, harmful approach to their marriage, and the prostitutes are all too willing to help them perpetrate this destructive act against their wife and children.

You can say what you like about the clients but you've overstretched the mark in suggesting that prostitutes are complicit in facilitating adultery. Prostitutes, like most points of sale, are not obliged to inquire about the background of their clients. Only unless you advocate such a stance, background checks for every customer at every purchase/service point (not just prostitution) - which would be totally unworkable at this point of time, does your view hold any water. But you don't, one reason is because its an impossibility for starters. This argument is specious, convenient - not a true reflection of reality.

 

Are those reasons I listed not enough for you? How about because it is psychologically harmful to the women and children? It objectifies women and children. It reduces them to pieces of meat to be bought and sold like cattle. I can think of other reasons, but I think this should suffice as to why it should not be legalized and legitimized, supported or promoted.

Its a business and you've just described the dynamics of many workplaces. Brings us back to a pertinent point - freedom of choice and the ability for everyone to choose their own path however fraught with danger, and or happiness that it may bring.

[FredRutherford]

Originally Posted by KathyM

.... why do you keep insisting on bringing fornication into this argument? Not all fornication is adultery. My argument here is that the majority of customers of prostitutes are married men--thereby prostitution enables adultery, and that is it's primary function--to enable married men to cheat on their wives.

Just because people get married and fornicate, doesn't mean we can outlaw fornication. Just because people get drunk and then drive, doesn't mean we should outlaw cars, or alcohol. We may decide to outlaw drunk driving, however.

The poster does bring up the "fornication" slur frequently, as if he has some weird fascination or fetish about that term.

Has tried to crash other threads using that offensive word.

 

Just because people get married and fornicate, doesn't mean we can outlaw fornication.

So people get married and having sex are now "fornicating?"

Methinks reading a dictionary might help.

[aj22one]

If you're gonna advocate for the use of force (the state) you better make sure you have an iron clad reason.

 

What two people do in the privacy of their own homes is no one's business but their own. Maybe they're doing something destructive, maybe they're smoking a joint. Maybe some chick is sleeping with a guy to get a job, maybe she's doing it for actual dough. Who cares? Mind your own business. Take care of you and let them take of them. haha

 

If some dude is cheating on his wife with a prostitute, his wife should probably get a divorce. Stop coddling people like a bunch of babies. haha

[123321]

The poster does bring up the "fornication" slur frequently, as if he has some weird fascination or fetish about that term.

Has tried to crash other threads using that offensive word.

 

 

So people get married and having sex are now "fornicating?"

Methinks reading a dictionary might help.

 

Or maybe you can take some rudimentary reading comprehension lessons.

 

All I said is that some people fornicate, and some do so even when married. Now of course after marriage any fornication would be also adultery, but the point is that if it's adultery one is concerned with then that should be legally addressed and not the more general cases of fornication, or prostitution.

 

If you can think of more concise terms to express the same ideas, please feel free to enlighten me.