Imajerk17 Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) I always shake my head a little bit when I read all the long-winded posts well-meaning members here keep piling at the frustrated guys. Stuff like "Make friends!" "Work on yourself!" and so on. You all actually make it sound so hard. It's a bit like the PUAs who tell you that the only way you can get an attractive girlfriend is to have "rock-solid inner-game" from doing 1000 cold-approaches, and to be very very different from the average guy out there. There's some truth to that--I mean you do have to stand out from the other guys in a positive way, but still, it's just not that hard. Anyway, I just reread the advice everyone keeps giving, putting myself into the mindset of a frustrated guy. These were my thoughts: "Wait, all these women around, and yet to just get to them, you mean I have to go out and make a whole bunch of friends and learn a bunch of social skills and "work on myself"? I'm not sure what "working on myself" even means!" I think I wouldn't do anything either. There is some truth to what you guys are saying, but it's just not that hard. There are a lot of guys who don't have the healthiest social circle, and yet, who also have girlfriends. So this would be my advice as far as a "first step". It's simple, but not easy. Here goes: Walk up to 10 women and start a conversation with them. Tell them that you saw them and you wanted to say hi. Ask them how their day is going. Out of those 10 women you'll get dates with maybe 1 or 2. Those 1 or 2 dates might not lead anywhere, but you'll learn something. Anyway, wash, rinse, repeat. Talk to 10 more women, and so on. Those of you on college campuses where there are lots of girls around could follow this advice and get a date this weekend. Yes even if you are 30.... Now why would a random girl agree to go out with you? Believe it or not, there are a lot of women who have less-than-exciting, or (gasp!) even boring social lives. You going up and talking to them might be the most exciting thing that happened to them all week. Now this is just "fast start" advice. It's to get you some dates, basically as soon as you implement it. In the end you will have to do the stuff all the rest of the people on the forum are saying to keep a woman interested. Edited June 2, 2012 by Imajerk17
ATrainofAngels Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 The problems guys have is usually 3 things, I speak from experience - Overestimating a woman's value, thinking that all women date millionaire businessmen and athletes - Underestimating own value, thinking that you're not worth anything - Overestimating the difficulty of the process, winning people is actually pretty easy if you have the right mindset Once your internal wiring is healthy in those 3 areas, you should have no problem making friends and getting women 3
Woggle Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 The key is that you might hand your heart over to the right woman but never hand your balls over to anybody. Treat a woman the way she deserves but never ever let yourself be a doormat. If she doesn't act right then drop her. 3
Author Imajerk17 Posted June 2, 2012 Author Posted June 2, 2012 Nice thoughts, but what the hell does this have to do with a guy who isn't even getting dates? Stay on topic people!
ATrainofAngels Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Nice thoughts, but what the hell does this have to do with a guy who isn't even getting dates? Stay on topic people! You have to fix the reason for the illness, not the symptoms. Fixing the symptoms is just like putting a bandaid on something that will inevitably return reason for illness - low self esteem, putting women on the pedestal, overestimating how difficult it really is 2
Woggle Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Nice thoughts, but what the hell does this have to do with a guy who isn't even getting dates? Stay on topic people! Because a man with self respect is attractive. 1
Kamille Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 I'm someone who's shy when it comes to approaching guys I like and who's still stunned when men tell me I'm beautiful, hot etc. In this respect, I think my mindset is likely closer to the frustrated guys (FG). I used to fear rejection like it was going to swallow me whole. Your approach is indeed simple, because what it recommends is simply this: dive in there. This, however, would not have worked for me. Baby steps are working for me: first, I learned to chitchat with random cute men, smile at them. Now that I've realized this isn't so hard, I'm now forcing myself to flirt more (touching). I'm wondering if this wouldn't be an easier approach for the FG? Breaking it down into more manageable steps than "dive in"?
ThaWholigan Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 The stuff shouldn't be hard at all. They make it hard.
truth_seeker Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 You have to have thick skin and realize not everyone is going to find you attractive or be interested in you. Think of it in baseball terms. You go to the plate and take your swings. Some you will miss, others you will hit. When you get on base, make the most of it. 1
fortyninethousand322 Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 You have to have thick skin and realize not everyone is going to find you attractive or be interested in you. Think of it in baseball terms. You go to the plate and take your swings. Some you will miss, others you will hit. When you get on base, make the most of it. Not a very good analogy considering I'm an O's fan.
ThaWholigan Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Also, I give the advice I give because I want them to be the complete opposite of frustrated and lonely. They need more vibrant lives, even if they are introverts. They can be introverts and still be happier versions of themselves. They will also have more productive relationships. But then I suppose it ties into the theory that all will be cured once they finally get a girlfriend. This I do not agree with. Unless their girlfriend is Ms Motivator. I'm more of an introverted person and I spend most of my time alone. Yet, I have a massive social circle. It can be done and managed.
AD1980 Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Also, I give the advice I give because I want them to be the complete opposite of frustrated and lonely. They need more vibrant lives, even if they are introverts. They can be introverts and still be happier versions of themselves. They will also have more productive relationships. But then I suppose it ties into the theory that all will be cured once they finally get a girlfriend. This I do not agree with. Unless their girlfriend is Ms Motivator. I'm more of an introverted person and I spend most of my time alone. Yet, I have a massive social circle. It can be done and managed. Same here..while i very much need my alone time i could never be alone months at a time by myself id go crazy..i love to party on weekends then recharge my battery so to speak.. As down and negative as i feel sometimes with lack of sucess with women if i ddint have good friends id be a headcase.. Its always good to have people you know who have your back and love you for you..and it takes your mind off of that missing thing in your social circle which is a women.. If you have no social circle then your only goal socially is to get a women or bust and thats pretty dangerous mindset to have.. Through my friends wives its also helped me interact with women more and more..i still for the life of me cant approach random women but little by little interacting with them and them saying what a good guy iam helps my confidence a little bit and takes away that small piece of your brain that thinks the other gender is somehow the enemy because you think they are not attracted to you.. 1
JuneJulySeptember Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Sometimes dating just sucks for certain people. Other people have it so easy they've had boyfriends or girlfriends since like 6th grade and a steady stream and they get to pick and choose you they date. And the vast majority of others have no trouble attracting a decent amount of people they like by the time they are young 20s. Looks matter a lot. Race matters. And then later on, money matters too. I think if it sucks for you and you're a guy, just keep your head up and see that you have other things that are good. People who have no problems dating, they might not have any real good true friends, or they might have family problems, or they might have a lot of money issues, or even health issues. If you all those problems too on top of not being able to get laid, well then that really sucks.
oranged Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 I always shake my head a little bit when I read all the long-winded posts well-meaning members here keep piling at the frustrated guys. Stuff like "Make friends!" "Work on yourself!" and so on. You all actually make it sound so hard. It's a bit like the PUAs who tell you that the only way you can get an attractive girlfriend is to have "rock-solid inner-game" from doing 1000 cold-approaches, and to be very very different from the average guy out there. There's some truth to that--I mean you do have to stand out from the other guys in a positive way, but still, it's just not that hard. Anyway, I just reread the advice everyone keeps giving, putting myself into the mindset of a frustrated guy. These were my thoughts: "Wait, all these women around, and yet to just get to them, you mean I have to go out and make a whole bunch of friends and learn a bunch of social skills and "work on myself"? I'm not sure what "working on myself" even means!" I think I wouldn't do anything either. There is some truth to what you guys are saying, but it's just not that hard. There are a lot of guys who don't have the healthiest social circle, and yet, who also have girlfriends. So this would be my advice as far as a "first step". It's simple, but not easy. Here goes: Walk up to 10 women and start a conversation with them. Tell them that you saw them and you wanted to say hi. Ask them how their day is going. Out of those 10 women you'll get dates with maybe 1 or 2. Those 1 or 2 dates might not lead anywhere, but you'll learn something. Anyway, wash, rinse, repeat. Talk to 10 more women, and so on. Those of you on college campuses where there are lots of girls around could follow this advice and get a date this weekend. Yes even if you are 30.... Now why would a random girl agree to go out with you? Believe it or not, there are a lot of women who have less-than-exciting, or (gasp!) even boring social lives. You going up and talking to them might be the most exciting thing that happened to them all week. Now this is just "fast start" advice. It's to get you some dates, basically as soon as you implement it. In the end you will have to do the stuff all the rest of the people on the forum are saying to keep a woman interested. you can't be serious. maybe if you're a male model or are a charmer. if i approach 10 i theres no way i'd get a date and at least 9 would turn away instantly. i'm not the best looking, am poor socially, don't have that charm and mystery that the women so desire and have lots of deal breakers. look, i'm 41 and haven't had a girlfriend. it would be an awful lot of pressure to put her under and would women be amenable to that? desperation can't be hidden because women pick up on body language.
oranged Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 You have to have thick skin and realize not everyone is going to find you attractive or be interested in you. Think of it in baseball terms. You go to the plate and take your swings. Some you will miss, others you will hit. When you get on base, make the most of it. wish that was it. but when a player strikes out or hits into a double play everytime, adjusts his stands, rinse, repeat, rinse repeat, at some point you're done with baseball. as for making the most of your chances, that's not easy when you get a paltry few. trying doesn't get everyone results.
oranged Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Same here..while i very much need my alone time i could never be alone months at a time by myself id go crazy..i love to party on weekends then recharge my battery so to speak.. As down and negative as i feel sometimes with lack of sucess with women if i ddint have good friends id be a headcase.. Its always good to have people you know who have your back and love you for you..and it takes your mind off of that missing thing in your social circle which is a women.. If you have no social circle then your only goal socially is to get a women or bust and thats pretty dangerous mindset to have.. Through my friends wives its also helped me interact with women more and more..i still for the life of me cant approach random women but little by little interacting with them and them saying what a good guy iam helps my confidence a little bit and takes away that small piece of your brain that thinks the other gender is somehow the enemy because you think they are not attracted to you.. i'm you, 41 years old, minus the social life. i'm not getting a woman any time soon. it would be a freakin miracle if i did. im under no illuions of getting lucky.
TheFinalWord Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 I always shake my head a little bit when I read all the long-winded posts well-meaning members here keep piling at the frustrated guys. Stuff like "Make friends!" "Work on yourself!" and so on. You all actually make it sound so hard. Well I think the advice is generally thought of "focus on becoming the right person instead of finding the right person". It forces us to look at ourselves instead of blaming everything on others. Most people won't do that though. I think there is something to working on yourself. There is a time for everything. There is a time to be alone and work on yourself, and there is a time to pursue women. It's not always the right time to pursue women. Good video on the topic... Loneliness, Dating & Rejection - YouTube So this would be my advice as far as a "first step". It's simple, but not easy. Here goes: Walk up to 10 women and start a conversation with them. Tell them that you saw them and you wanted to say hi. Ask them how their day is going. Out of those 10 women you'll get dates with maybe 1 or 2. Those 1 or 2 dates might not lead anywhere, but you'll learn something. Anyway, wash, rinse, repeat. Talk to 10 more women, and so on. What if all 10 say yes? Then we have the multi-dating scenario. I think you mean stop once you get 2 or 3 dates? I do agree with you though that when it is our "time" to pursue women that you have to approach it like a job search. Don't get disheartened over a rejection. Keep going.
oranged Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Well I think the advice is generally thought of "focus on becoming the right person instead of finding the right person". It forces us to look at ourselves instead of blaming everything on others. Most people won't do that though. I think there is something to working on yourself. There is a time for everything. There is a time to be alone and work on yourself, and there is a time to pursue women. It's not always the right time to pursue women. Good video on the topic... Loneliness, Dating & Rejection - YouTube What if all 10 say yes? Then we have the multi-dating scenario. I think you mean stop once you get 2 or 3 dates? I do agree with you though that when it is our "time" to pursue women that you have to approach it like a job search. Don't get disheartened over a rejection. Keep going. the frustrated guys could approach 10 thousand and not get one date. it'd take a hot charming guy to get 2 or 3 dates out of 10 approaches.
TheFinalWord Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 the frustrated guys could approach 10 thousand and not get one date. it'd take a hot charming guy to get 2 or 3 dates out of 10 approaches. Well, I feel that the advice of the OP is pretty loaded. Your statement too. There's a lot of variables at play. For example, without ever meeting you I can tell you have no confidence. If I can see that through a computer screen, just imagine women in real life. So I agree, if you don't have any confidence in yourself you will never get a date. For example, please list 5 things that you have to offer a woman in a relationship. Seriously, go ahead. Since you feel looks and charm aren't your bag of tea, then surely there must be something? Why would a woman want you? If you don't know at least 5 things, then you won't have any confidence in yourself.
oranged Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Well, I feel that the advice of the OP is pretty loaded. Your statement too. There's a lot of variables at play. For example, without ever meeting you I can tell you have no confidence. If I can see that through a computer screen, just imagine women in real life. So I agree, if you don't have any confidence in yourself you will never get a date. For example, please list 5 things that you have to offer a woman in a relationship. Seriously, go ahead. Since you feel looks and charm aren't your bag of tea, then surely there must be something? Why would a woman want you? If you don't know at least 5 things, then you won't have any confidence in yourself. suceess makes confindence. i have none. 5 things. live in my own house, have a job, will show up, taller than 99% of women, can't get a 5th.
TheFinalWord Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 (edited) suceess makes confindence. i have none. 5 things. live in my own house, have a job, will show up, taller than 99% of women, can't get a 5th. Well, you are on the right track, success does create confidence. BUT the journey to success also creates confidence (i.e. having a vision) Okay, that's a good start. You have some solid foundations, but what about personal attributes? I bet that will get you to five! What would have to happen in your life to make you successful? When you answer, don't think "having a woman". Getting a woman is a consequence of success, not a measure of it. For you, in your life, what exactly would make you feel "successful". This is important b/c a man with some type of vision is appealing to woman. It doesn't have to be eradicate aids or something grandiose either. Edited June 2, 2012 by TheFinalWord 1
oranged Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 Well, you are on the right track, success does create confidence. BUT the journey to success also creates confidence (i.e. having a vision) Okay, that's a good start. You have some solid foundations, but what about personal attributes? I bet that will get you to five! What would have to happen in your life to make you successful? When you answer, don't think "having a woman". Getting a woman is a consequence of success, not a measure of it. For you, in your life, what exactly would make you feel "successful". This is important b/c a man with some type of vision is appealing to woman. It doesn't have to be eradicate aids or something grandiose either. to keep my job or get a promotion. don't know. there isn't a lot special about me except i repel women like nobody else. maybe one will ask me out one day but i don't think so.
johan Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 The secret is to hand over your balls as soon as possible. That way you'll be so busy doing things her way and freaked out about what she'll do with them next that you'll never have to worry about how strong your feelings for her are. You just need to worry about how strong her feelings are for you. Where your balls go, your heart goes by default. That is giving yourself completely.
oranged Posted June 2, 2012 Posted June 2, 2012 The secret is to hand over your balls as soon as possible. That way you'll be so busy doing things her way and freaked out about what she'll do with them next that you'll never have to worry about how strong your feelings for her are. You just need to worry about how strong her feelings are for you. Where your balls go, your heart goes by default. That is giving yourself completely. i don't understand.
Author Imajerk17 Posted June 2, 2012 Author Posted June 2, 2012 I'm starting to wonder if my true "life's work" involves helping out the frustrated beat-down nice guys get better with women. Especially those who have these other things going for them. I read oranged's story and I actually feel really bad. Thing is, I can relate because I've been there. The difference between you and me though, is that I was willing to do whatever it took to get success with women. I got rejected an awful lot and it did suck but I kept pushing on. My short guess in the meanwhile is that you are turning off women with your body language or voice tonality. That said, what are you willing to do to get this area of your life handled?
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