The past that affects the present and the present that shapes the future.

[kitten]

Have been doing alot of thinking, my mm has disapeared for 3 days, meaning phone and sight. I know, or feel that he is at home w the family. We had a deep conversation about everything last week and I said something I probably should not have said, I said he's not w his children as much as he probably should be. He responded by saying yes I am, I said I believe he's a good father to his children, but................ He already feels guilty about everything and he should! But I believe that by me slipping and saying this that he feels more guilty and has been spending more time at home. He had said I do spend time w my kids and more than I say but it's because I know it hurts you so I don't tell you about it. I think it would hurt me, but like a post I read that said, I'd rather you hurt me w the truth than hurt me w your lies! I want to say this to him! I haven't spoken to him in 3 days, maybe he's feeling extra guilty, but I am hurting too. I am becoming fed up w his crap, but don't want to say goodbye- not ready just yet ! I also have told you guys my situation and have gotten alot of heat from it, because he also financially supports me- I love him and would be w him regardless, but now am questioning whether I should stay and take advantage and try to put my feelings on the back burner, but the guilt is getting to me to! I would love to have this man to myself, but in my head I also truly know that he has told alot of lies! If I was to hang in there and wait I feel as though I am selling myself short! I really would like to get married and have a family of my own and soon- I have been feeling really lonley latley, watching families w their babies and can't help but picture him w his family. I hate him for what he has created for me and his family, I wish and can't understand why he has done this to everyone involved! He's soooo selfish, my feelings are resentment towards him and hurt for his family. I do truly love this man, and if, IF these were not the circumstances would definetly want to marry this man. I will probably be speaking to him tonight or tomorrow, and he has no idea I have felt these feelings latley or to what extreme!When I speak to him can anyone out there let me know what I should be saying to him- and please be gentle w me, I am already a mess, I don't think anyone that has not been through this could possibly understand the hurt, pain and stress that the OW goes through!- Kitten

[fanou22]

Deb,

I know in many of my posts I had said that it was a physical thing. I did not think that I had feelings for him or maybe I was repressing them. When I tried walking away, I felt so sad. I hate to think that I love him but I definitely have feelings for him.

I know I need to see a therapist to get past my issues. He is not the only issue I have. I already know what my issues are but I don't know how to get past them.

 

Kia,

I am interested in knowing what was the LA guy's opinion when he figured out you're with a MM.

[kitten]

UPDATE! Wow, that was quite a conversation. MM called, I kinda couldn't help but confront what I was feeling. I was sort of stand offish and he sensed it, but so was he. He sounded sad and stressed, for real. I said how I was feeling and that I needed to do some soul searching because I am feeling like I'm not sure whats going to happen with us. He wanted to listen to what I was feeling and responded. He said, i'm sorry just been thinking alot, I said please tell me what your thinking about, I don't want our whole relationship to be based on lies.More than whats already happened, if were gonna do this why not do it right.I said you have to start being more open w me, so we can come to a decision. He agrees and says baby you don't understand how much it means to me to finally have " the cat out of the bag". I feel as though because we can discuss our relationship, it's like all this weight has been lifted from my back. He started to open up a little more about what he was thinking and said I love her as a mother and don't want to hurt them by putting them through this, but I don't want to wake up in 30 years and have been unhappy. Everyone looks at me and says you have the perfect life but I'm still so unhappy. He said I see these couples that are so happy and when I do I think about you and me. He said I know this is kinda crazy but have actually sat back and asked myself whether I would be hurt more by another man touching you or her and said, I would without ques be more hurt if I was sleeping w someone else then his wife. That for me was like what do I make of this? What would you think? You guys would have been proud when I got up enough courage to say some things to him that we have discussed like how I thought he was so selfish and a coward for putting all of us, meaning his fam and me through this. He said yes I am a coward and I said if you had have told me you were married w a fam I would have never- never gotten involved w you. He said I know and I didn't think I would fall in love w you, but I did. I said I need to think about my needs and what I need to do, he's silent. He then says things like, i am at my best when i'm w you and it sounds cliche but i'm a better man when i'm w you. Also that whether i know it or not, each night for about half hour before he goes to bed he thinks what his life would be like married to me, how would he go about telling the family and parents, how a divorce would happen, and how having me carry his baby would be increadible. I know whats right and whats wrong but could this really be something that could happen? We are so good together, but so many people would get hurt. Is it possible things happen for a reason? Is it possible that sometimes we make mistakes and marry the wrong mate? Or is it true that the grass is always greener on the other side?

[fanou22]

Kitten,

So sorry to hear that. To answer your question, it is both.

The grass is always greener on the other side and sometimes we do not make the best choice in selecting a mate.

 

But then again, I would not put it under selecting a mate. I prefer to think that one day I will be sharing my life with a partner and not just a mate. and I hope this is the same for all women and even men.

 

I recently told a male friend of mine that I am having an affair with a married man. He flipped out. You should have heard what he said about the MM not having any self respect. And how he went on about when MMs things like this, they screw the single man's chances with single women.

[kitten]

YEP! I can't tell my male friends anything about this, or even my girl friends, or my mom! I don't tell anyone, just like him everyone thinks I have this perfect life. That's why I can be honest on this chat. Please give me more input on our talks, what do you think? From someone else's point of view, do the other womens men tell them these same things?Is my situation any different? I will be seeing him tomorrow then going away again w him next week for a week. How should I carry myself w him? The same, or what? Is there anything you think I should say that I didn't thank you, I really need to have another person's help.

[kiababy]

Kitten, originally I had a real problem with the fact that he is supporting you financially, but when it comes right down to it nothing else is much different. What's similar to mine is, he also tells me he is a 'better man' because of me; he thinks about what it would be like if we were together, and actually had me act it out with him at his house one weekend when his wife went away; he never expected to develop 'feelings' (we've been carefully skirting the word 'love' so far.

 

If your MM does end up getting a divorce, it will be HELL, I've experienced that part of it recently with another guy I used to date. There is NO WAY to end his marriage without a lot of people being hurt. There is no happily ever after, I don't care how promising it looks. By the way, after my parents' divorce, my dad married the woman he had been having an affair with - they fought non-stop for 10 years, then they divorced too. The grass is not greener.

 

Fanou, here is the gist of what my lawyer friend said to me (I'm going to cut and paste his words from our IM, he won't mind, he knows I have been using a relatioship forum:

 

 

if he really loved her... he would not do that.. .or if he could not be faithful.. he would leave her

typical man... heighth of selfishness

then he should not be married.. he is f*****g with the lives of two womenwhy on earth would you go out with the guy? Even if he did leave her... he would cheat on you tooSounds like he knows exactly what women want to hear.. he is jsut not self confident enough to tell them the truth

how can he care about you... he totally abuses you

I suspect he likes you only because you are available for sex.. and you are not upsetting his apple cart

then ask him... see what he does and how much you really mean to him... that will force him to prove how he feels

and if you keep spending your time with him, then that is time in which the right person for you may pass in the night without even a glimpse

 

There is more stuff of a personal nature that's specific to my situation that I would rather not print here. That's oretty much it.

[fanou]

Kitten,

I wish I could give you more input into your situation. I haven't been involved with my MM for a lengthy amount of time. It is a tough choice for you to make. Either you accept being the second person or you chalk up all the hurt you can and move on.

 

Be honest as much as you want here. Feel free to make it your own diary if it helps. You will always have support from all of us. I do advocate "go with what your heart tells you".

[fanou22]

Kia,

 

My friend said almost the same things. What pisses me off in this relationship is that I am not the one doing the wishing part in meeting before he got married and things like that. Why wasn't I able to cut it off?????

I am not ready to make another try yet. I keep on hoping that I will get to move to a different state instead of facing reality and ending things with him.

 

Ever since we got back together, I am seeing him more often. He comes by my place every time he gets an opportunity which did not happen before. It is kinda strange. I know he is not looking to get caught but weird don't you think?

[kiababy]

Fanou, I've been asking the exact same thing for months - do they want to get caught, maybe to force a confrontation? After already getting caught last fall when one of his old girlfriends called his wife - I would have thought that he would be extremely careful....well the other day he told me that one of my messages that he saved on his phone happened to be right after a phone message from his father-in-law. He handed his cell phone to his wife to let her listen to her father's message, then grabbed it backas soon as it was done because the next message was mine. He has also been coming to see me a lot more often, after work, on Saturday mornings when he's 'on-call' and he has even spent a night at my house recently.

[fanou22]

Kia,

I don't think my MM is looking for a confrontation with his iwfe. He had said previously that he thinks she will kick him out if she ever found out.

 

What I found strange and have brought it up with MM is that when her doctor suspected she might have herpes, while waiting for the results she was telling him all the time that she was not/did not cheat. Why would she go to the length of reassuring him instead of questioning him? (He tests came back negative)

 

I have asked MM that same question but he could not give me an answer. The only thing he said is that she would never do that (cheat on him).

 

Any thoughts on this?

[kiababy]

....I don't mean force a confrontation in the sense that he wants a fight, I mean subconciously. What you mentioned about the herpes....that's huge. If your doctor says you might have herpes and you are NOT cheating...wouldn't you run home, bust in the door, slap your husband upside the head and say "You gave me herpes you son-of-a-b***h?????"

 

Men don't like to believe their women will ever cheat on them, but they're just in denial ("who would want to cheat on ME?").

[fanou22]

Kia,

yes hmmmmmm my thoughts exactly................

From what he says, when she went to the doctor, she told her right out "you may wanna ask you husband what has he been up to". What pissed her off at the doctor's office was how could her doctor suggest such a thing.

 

Isn't that a bit twisted?????

I know what I did when I got herpes. Slapped the **** out of my bf before I uttered a word to him.

 

From my questions, I kinda find that there are some strange things in their relationship that I would imagine do not exist in normal ones. She wants him home to put their oldest to bed. When he travels on vacation, she does not go with him. When she goes out, it is with her friends not with him. She does not like the places he likes........I can cite more things but hey you never know who checks out the LS.

 

I have never been married but isn't that a bit strange????

[kiababy]

Not at all, the first married guy I ended up having an affair with - this was in the middle of my divorce, he was the shoulder I cried on - was in exactkly the type of relationship you described.

 

They only have one son but he was the one there to pick the son up from school and give him dinner every night (she did not cook - period), she went out with her friends 5 nights a week. He would ride down to the U.S. for bike week, she would visit her friend in California. Eventually she wanted to know what she was 'missing' out on so she packed up and left he and his son and moved in with a girlfriend. She eventually went back to him but admitted she wanted to try out women.

 

There is no end to the s**t married people will put each other through....when they don't belong together. just my opinion people, don't jump all over me!!!!

[kiababy]

...after seeing each other steadily for 2 years.....when his wife was gone - a total of 4 months - we went on exactly ONE date. He spent the rest of the time moping and whining about how he would never take her back. Yes, he took her back.

 

It was shortly after that ended and I had started up with the guy who is now getting divorced; that I started going to the therapist.

 

Let me point out that what I have with MM now is much more intense than either of the other two.

[Debster]

I must admit I am pleased to see you guys starting to take the blinders off.

 

Fanou22,

 

DING DING DING. Yes, you are right, if I had herpes and I knew I wasn't cheating, you would bet the bank that my fiance would be in BIG trouble. The fact that he wasn't IMO, says she too is sleeping around. Probably without condoms. PLEASE, PLEASE stop having unprotected sex and get tested. For all you know they could have an open marriage where they can screw anyone they want. Yuck!

 

Kiababy,

 

I've said it before but I'll say it again. HE WANTS YOU FOR SEX. Yes, I know you think that it is more but IMO, it is sex, and sex alone (well, okay maybe the 'I've been bad mommy' pillow talks as well). How can you figure this out? Simple. Don't give him any. If he wants to come over, play cards, watch a movie, eat dinner but stay away from the bedroom and physical stuff. See if he keeps coming back for more.

[kiababy]

Deb, I appreciate what you're saying, really I do - but there is so much more than just sex. We spend far more time talking than actually having sex, and we never run out of things to talk and laugh about.

 

What do a 42 year old and a 26 year old find to talk about? Anything and everything. We never get to finish a conversation, even if we've been talking for an hour. I hate the circumstances but I love the connection.

 

A long time ago we discussed the fact that if we stopped having sex (he figures it will be when I fall in love with someone else), that I would still want to be his friend. It made him very happy to know that I genuinely like him as a person and would continue to talk to him.

[Debster]

kiababy,

Your latest post was news to me. Mind you, I haven't been as actively watching your posts and you could have posted that earlier and I didn't see it or remember. But from previous posts, I never got the impression that there was that much emotionally in it. I knew that you both felt that you found someone who 'got' you but that was all I took from it. I say, give the no sex thing a try. It might help wean you off of him and it might also help you see him for who he really is. After all, I understand how good sex can cause other things to be taken out of context.

[kiababy]

I thought about your post Deb. I agree half of it is sex, I also happen to love the sex. But there is so much more going on. We talk several times a day and he likes to text message me too. We spent 45 minutes driving somewhere last week, and the 45 minutes was as much fun as the end result. He wanted to tell me that he had always been looking for 'satisfaction', thinking that he would find it in a sexual experience, and went through 'lots of girls' trying to find it.

 

Now he feels that whatever it was he needed, he gets it all from me. He told me he talks about me all day at work, and when his coworkers ask him what he's so happy about and why nothing seems to bother him ....he says 'its because of her'.

 

He also thanked me for being the only woman who has never said to him: if you're so unhappy, why don't you leave your wife? Let's address that: I spent 9 looooooonnnnngggggggg years married to someone I HATED. Had 2 sons with him too. My MM has only been married 3 years, even though they started dating in high school, which makes it about 10 years - and he LOVES her.

 

I had my reasons for staying, he has his. I left when I WAS READY TO LEAVE. When we first started seeing each other he brought the subject up himself, he would never leave his wife FOR someone. He'll leave when he 'can't take anymore', on his own terms. I personally believe that one day SHE will leave HIM.

 

Regardless of whether she leaves or he does....I don't believe that I will have been the 'cause' of their marriage breaking up. It's already broken.

 

When I read posts by some of the other OW posting on this site I notice that our stories are all so similar. The MM seem to say the same types of things. It occurred to me: it's no different with the lines single guys say to women, the words may be different, but it's all the same s**t over and over again.

 

Irate posters: no need to jump all over me for that last paragraph....I know that extra-marital affairs are wrong on all counts, I know the wife is the innocent victim, thank you very much. Just stating my experience, that's all.