Does 9-5 exist anymore?

[anne1707]

I think the Europeans have it made; 6 weeks of vacation and short work days. They even have longer maternity leave for pregnant women and the husbands too than here in the US. Not to mention job security is better there than here.

 

The level of benefits, hours worked etc varies across Europe. France has one of the lowest working hours and highest levels of benefits going. In the UK, our working hours are higher and benefits less but we still generally work fewer hours than the US. However that is then reflected in the salary with lower salaries here. When you consider that and that the cost of living is higher here (just compare property prices ), then the longer hours of the US may be worth it after all.

 

Job security - nowhere near as great as it was but at least we do have legislation which protects employees to a greater extent from bad employers.

[NXS]

I need to move to the UK. But that's next to impossible because 1) I need to find a business to sponsor me (even though I have duel citizenship with Ireland) and 2) if not business, then I'd have to enroll in higher education (and that's not going to happen because I can barely stand to finish my current grad program here). So that leaves 3) find a UK boyfriend here who wants to move back or 4) win the lottery.

 

This doesn't make sense, if you're an EU citizen you can work anywhere in the EU/EEA without sponsorship/permits etc.

[zengirl]

I taught in southern Asia at a university. It was fun but the pay was awful and I wouldn't have been able to travel off that salary. But you're not teaching anymore? My background is language arts.

 

I had a masters by the time I went over. I taught in Japan at a public school in Tokyo (I speak Japanese in addition to English and have family there and Japanese heritage so had a better class of visa) and did loads of privates. I made a buttload there, despite the high cost of living. In Korea, I worked at an international school outside of Seoul. A good living, as well. But having a MAT (mine was in Language Arts & Reading) helped a lot in getting such positions.

 

My actual certs are: English 6-12, Reading, ESOL, Spanish (fluent in that as well -tested in), Japanese (tested to add), Elementary (tested to add), Speech, Drama, ESE (tested & additional coursework to add), Computer Science (tested to add), and School Counseling (recently added with tests & coursework). I've primarily taught LA/Reading and Elementary. Almost all Elementary abroad. Both my U.S. positions were secondary Language Arts, though the last one was Intensive Reading. I'm pretty marketable as an educator, but I can't work at schools in the South any longer because I went through this whole thing at my last school because I wasn't Christian. I might get a teaching job again when we move out West. Teachers in the South are treated like dirt, so I'm better off at my nonprofit for now.

[Negative Nancy]

work fewer hours than the US. However that is then reflected in the salary with lower salaries here.

 

The salaries may seem lower because the social security system is far more extensive and already included in the net pay.

 

Benefits here include free choice of doctors; unlimited physician visits; preventive checkups; total freedom from out-of-pocket payments for physician services; unlimited acute hospital care (with a nominal co-payment); prescription drug coverage (with a minimal co-payment); comprehensive dental benefits; vision and hearing exams, aids, prostheses, etc.; inpatient and psychiatric care (and outpatient psychiatric visits); monthly home care allowances; maternity benefits (parents get 67 % of the net income in the last 12 months before the birth up to a year, on top of that a monthly child allowance, paid maternity leave six weeks before the confinement and eight weeks after it, the right to demand a parental leave up to three years after the birth of the child with employers having no chance to refuse the release, cheap daycare and so on and so forth); disability payments; and rehabilitation and/or occupational therapy.

 

If people in the US would have that kind of social security and health insurance and would have it deducted from their gross pay, I don't know if salary figures would not roughly look the same then.

[zengirl]

The salaries may seem lower because the social security system is far more extensive and already included in the net pay.

 

Benefits here include free choice of doctors; unlimited physician visits; preventive checkups; total freedom from out-of-pocket payments for physician services; unlimited acute hospital care (with a nominal co-payment); prescription drug coverage (with a minimal co-payment); comprehensive dental benefits; vision and hearing exams, aids, prostheses, etc.; inpatient and psychiatric care (and outpatient psychiatric visits); monthly home care allowances; maternity benefits (parents get 67 % of the net income in the last 12 months before the birth up to a year, on top of that a monthly child allowance, paid maternity leave six weeks before the confinement and eight weeks after it, the right to demand a parental leave up to three years after the birth of the child with employers having no chance to refuse the release, cheap daycare and so on and so forth); disability payments; and rehabilitation and/or occupational therapy.

 

If people in the US would have that kind of social security and health insurance and would have it deducted from their gross pay, I don't know if salary figures would not roughly look the same then.

 

Right. And teachers are paid better in the UK than in the state where I live. I'd gladly come live and teach in London if I could get the visa.

[Negative Nancy]

Aside from the fact that the 35 to 38 hour week and 6 weeks of paid vacation is standard for a large proportion of the workforce. I would not wanna work the typical US 50 - 60 hour week and only have 1 week off per year Maybe it is just a question of being used to it and not knowing any differently - but I don't think I could ever get used to it, nor would I want to.

[anne1707]

The salaries may seem lower because the social security system is far more extensive and already included in the net pay.

 

Benefits here include free choice of doctors; unlimited physician visits; preventive checkups; total freedom from out-of-pocket payments for physician services; unlimited acute hospital care (with a nominal co-payment); prescription drug coverage (with a minimal co-payment); comprehensive dental benefits; vision and hearing exams, aids, prostheses, etc.; inpatient and psychiatric care (and outpatient psychiatric visits); monthly home care allowances; maternity benefits (parents get 67 % of the net income in the last 12 months before the birth up to a year, on top of that a monthly child allowance, paid maternity leave six weeks before the confinement and eight weeks after it, the right to demand a parental leave up to three years after the birth of the child with employers having no chance to refuse the release, cheap daycare and so on and so forth); disability payments; and rehabilitation and/or occupational therapy.

 

If people in the US would have that kind of social security and health insurance and would have it deducted from their gross pay, I don't know if salary figures would not roughly look the same then.

 

Many of those benefits are funded by tax and national insurance deducted from the already lower salaries. The provision may vary between different health authorities and there may be significant waiting lists. I think many parents would question whether daycare ise cheap as well.

 

As it is, I was talking of gross salaries hence my comparison is valid.

 

Aside from the fact that the 35 to 38 hour week and 6 weeks of paid vacation is standard for a large proportion of the workforce. I would not wanna work the typical US 50 - 60 hour week and only have 1 week off per year Maybe it is just a question of being used to it and not knowing any differently - but I don't think I could ever get used to it, nor would I want to.

 

I agree (and this comes back to why US salaries are higher than UK salaries as I said in my earlier post)

[firemanq]

I am self employed, with my own business. At one time my normal work week was 60 to 80 hours a week. I would be up by 6:00

AM and work until 2:00 or 3"00 AM. I have now cut back to 50 to 60 hours. But I find after working the odd hours, I am still only getting 3 to 5 hours of sleep. But, I am my own boss. I choose my customers. If a customer does not allow me to do my work to prescribed codes, I fire them. My employees usually only work 40 hours, usually 10 hour days. They work the hours required of them. Next week, we have a job that will start Sunday at 8:00 AM and will end at 9:00 or 10:00 PM. We should be finished on Friday or Saturday. We have started at 7:00 AM & worked until 3'00 AM. My guys will not complain, they will just work there asses off. But, they get lots of time off (unpaid) to watch their kids play sports. In the fall, I get first choice on hunting seasons, and the others put in there 40 hours in 3 days, and hunt 4 days. Unless we have an emergency, then things change. My guys work hard, but do get lots of time off. They get 1 weeks vacation, each year, up to 3 weeks. If new employees can make the first 6 months, they normally stay for several years.

[Negative Nancy]

My guys work hard, but do get lots of time off. They get 1 weeks vacation, each year, up to 3 weeks.

 

wow

 

 

 

 

 

Aside from the fact that the 35 to 38 hour week and 6 weeks of paid vacation is standard for a large proportion of the workforce. I would not wanna work the typical US 50 - 60 hour week and only have 1 week off per year Maybe it is just a question of being used to it and not knowing any differently - but I don't think I could ever get used to it, nor would I want to.

 

a turn-of-the-20th-century analysis by Ford Motor Company that concluded the most productive number of weekly hours for workers was 40. Another 20 hours briefly increased productivity, but after just three to four weeks, it actually made workers less productive.

It's Time to End the 60-Hour Workweek - 40 hours provides maximum productivity: Geoffrey James

 

 

[ON MY OWN]

IMO(In the US) I also think it started back some time ago when the companys started increasing their hours to being open on Sundays, then the holidays etc....then the economy etc. It just seemed to increase and spiral from there. Of course, there are other variables too, but to me those are substancial to what is going on with the work industry in the United States.

[Mr Scorpio]

I view the issue as one of the rest of the world catching up. Europe had its infrastructure ravaged by two world-wars. Many Asian countries lacked the sheer amount of natural resources that the United States holds. But now that the information age has arrived, and American companies have to compete with foreign adversaries, the global standard of living is leveling off. Thus, fewer people in impoverished nations starve to death, while fewer Americans get to work 45 hours a week with two weeks paid vacation and benefts.

 

Then again, I've never had a "real" career. So whadda I know?

[123321]

Is this normal? In this economy? Should I just be grateful for anything I can possibly get, even if it diminishes my ability to potentially have a family someday? Does anyone out there have a decent paying career that doesn't require them to shatter 9-5?

 

"This economy" has little to do with it. In the real world 50+ hour weeks are the norm in most fields outside manufacturing and maybe financial services. In engineering the range runs from 40-90ish depending on factors that are largely in the employees control, but not completely.

[Negative Nancy]

"This economy" has little to do with it. In the real world 50+ hour weeks are the norm in most fields outside manufacturing and maybe financial services. In engineering the range runs from 40-90ish depending on factors that are largely in the employees control, but not completely.

 

Not in the"real world" that I live in. Assembly monkeys working for big car or electronics manufacturing companies usually have a 35 hour week (and THAT is considered FT) with a bigger pay check than that of some book-smart academics. Engineering, IT and business students from my university have a very easy going job life with hardly ever more than 40 hours a week and tons of benefits.

 

The ONLY people that I constantly see complaining about long work hours (60 to 80 per week) are ironically the ones who work for the big financial or consulting firms such as PwC, E&Y etc.

[123321]

Not in the"real world" that I live in.

 

In R&D we routinely worked 55+ hours, I can't speak for other careers as I was too busy working at my R&D tasks.

[Viscerality]

Interesting take, OP. It seems like there are very few jobs with those kinda hours.

[Mr Scorpio]

Interesting take, OP. It seems like there are very few jobs with those kinda hours.

 

I must give credit to Thomas Friedman (author of "The World is Flat") and Jared Diamond (author of "Guns, Germs, and Steel"). It seems to be an accurate assessment to me.

 

People may blame political ideology, but IMO it is simply the pendulum swinging back to the center. Capitalism demands ever expanding markets, which requires ever expanding resources. Neither of these things exist. Competition, resource scarcity, and the forthcoming student-loan bubble are going to decimate the American economy. No single politician can prevent this; it will require a wholesale change across every facet of society.

 

In other words, we're screwed!