Educated Women/Working women = less interest in men/less interest in dating.

[dasein]

I like the abbreviation for "something that I feel unconditionally."

 

"STFU," and suggest more people use that here on LS for greater clarity.

[Woggle]

I want a woman who has her stuff together but I don't want a materialistic snob who thinks everybody is beneath her. I don't want to be friends with men like that so why would I want to be with a woman like that?

[Jane2011]

Neither have I, but career-success has brought its fair share of personal happiness. My job in and of itself is mostly delightful. I still can't believe I get to do this for a living.

 

Same here. I'm very happy in my job. It brings me personal happiness, and I can look at myself in the mirror.

 

My career and my romantic life have at times entered in conflict - generally under the form of a choice between staying somewhere to be with someone or moving somewhere to take advantage of a great career opportunity. I've always chosen career.

 

That is understandable. So far, I've never been in a position of even having to make a choice between a career opportunity and a relationship, which is one reason I've "never put career over dating/relationships." But I can see myself being very conflicted if I did have to choose.

 

I'm somewhat in a similar position now. It's not about career, though; more that I have been dying to live in another city, and I may have that opportunity soon, but it would mean leaving behind a romantic prospect I have. I might choose the other city anyway; I don't know yet.

[Kamille]

That's the thing I don't get about these threads. No one if forcing anyone to be with someone with whom they aren't compatible. The only way these threads make any sense is if we generalize a trait only a part of the population possesses, (being career-oriented or only interested in men who earn more than them) and pretend that this defines the whole population. It doesn't.

 

Sadly, the only people who are truly made to suffer from this are the people who hold the stereotypes or want to believe them to be true. Their expectations in the dating world are probably skewed and they're more likely to put up with bs, just because they don't believe there is better, more compatible, out there.

 

As for me I really don't care that some guys out there don't want to date career women. We're just incompatible. Won't be losing sleep tonight. At least not over the fact that WA or QG13 don't find me appealing. (Maybe over work, however ).

[Jane2011]

So, I guess I could say: SFWOHTM&WIHS (Speaking For What Others Have Told Me & What I Have Seen)

 

lol...

 

 

........................

[zengirl]

I want a woman who has her stuff together but I don't want a materialistic snob who thinks everybody is beneath her. I don't want to be friends with men like that so why would I want to be with a woman like that?

 

Right. This is a good point. I have seen ambitious women, like Kamille, who had to give a lot to their career in their 20s and 30s put off marriage as a huge priority (most of those women seem to get married once their career settles down, from what I've seen). Those aren't typically the women you'll hear complaining that they scare men off or whatever, and they still have LTRs.

 

I think a woman being overly materialistic -- whether it's her money or his -- can scare men off. I don't blame them. It'd scare me off, if a man was that way, and often did.

 

Perhaps the issue with materialistic men and women getting together is that quite a few materialistic men don't give two figs about a woman's income and often DO get bothered by it, because they want that Top Dog status? Or at the very least they'd rather have someone who fixated their time & energy on being a good trophy? I don't know why the two types don't just stick together. Someone materialistic will have to explain that to me.

[dasein]

I want a woman who has her stuff together but I don't want a materialistic snob who thinks everybody is beneath her. I don't want to be friends with men like that so why would I want to be with a woman like that?

 

Yeah, some of these types know no limits. If they don't spend $100 on a meal, they feel they "haven't had anything to eat" and I have heard -exactly- that from several. If they aren't in a $500 a night hotel room, they are put upon to enjoy themselves. They will make a show of spitting out a wine that didn't cost more than $20. I don't find many men like this with the luxury addiction and insistence (none actually, no matter how much they make), many women today though. I find this attitude more in Southern metro areas than NE admittedly, but some of it everywhere.

 

If someone can't enjoy life unless they are spending a wad of cash every day, there is something deeply, deeply wrong with that individual.

[zengirl]

I don't find many men like this with the luxury addiction and insistence (none actually, no matter how much they make), many women today though. I find this attitude more in Southern metro areas than NE admittedly, but some of it everywhere.

 

You always assert only women do this, but I have been frustrated with several men who are materialistic in the ways you describe. You may not meet men with luxury addiction, but I have met (and rejected) tons. I hate fancy restaurants and expensive stuff. It was fairly hard for me to find a man who didn't feel the need to flash money around and who had healthy financial habits, honestly.

[brokenTom]

I love an educated/working woman. Typically means she has a good head on her shoulders with the kind of priorities in line with mine: patience, dedication, self-respect, passion, goals, and selflessness. Of course there are exceptions, but it's a good start IME

 

I don't need a women to have collage degrees and high-earning job. To me, you definitely can be educated and hard working without those things. It also helps tremendously that you are actually doing what you want in life, or working towards that... that's an awesome quality in a person.

[dasein]

You always assert only women do this, but I have been frustrated with several men who are materialistic in the ways you describe.

 

I actually do know ~5 like that, out of 10,000 or so datapoints, so will remove the "none" parenthetical. Those five are all multimillionaires/billionaires and never knew anything but that kind of luxury though. They make a big effort to act normal while slumming it.

 

Maybe 1:3 women I date has those tendencies. Don't bother with the people picker BS, there's absolutely no way to spot them right off the bat until you see where they live, their car, etc., unless they are so stupid as to broadcast their luxury addiction like a badge of honor (surprisingly many are and will call brand some ridiculous $12 a drink vodka on your tab on the first date... buhbye!) They can't afford to hire a housekeeper to clean their funkified shower (or heaven forbid do it themselves), but at least there's a $12 bar of soap and a $50 bottle of shampoo in that 100 sq ft shower!

[Negative Nancy]

Men don't have anything resembling that kind of expectation? Maybe not toward money but certainly toward body types and age. A lot of average guys want a gorgeous young hot babe. Alot of guys look down on women that don't fit into their personal physical requirements. And while some might disagree, I do not think women are as harsh on men and their looks as the reverse. Please stop acting like men don't have their list of shallow expectations.

 

I have dated men of all income levels. But sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't be more discriminating because of the attitudes of a lot of men about my own worth being tied to my youth and looks. And I will tell you what men tell me when I have mentioned this. Like looks, money draw the person in. That doesn't mean they will stay but it certainly opens the door.

 

I am left with the possiblity that when your friends inherent their millions, they will probably be dating younger, hotter women. While they lamenate the evils of their past dating history with women. Failing to see their own shallowness in the process.

 

excellent post, as usual. men are just as shallow.

[zengirl]

I actually do know ~5 like that, out of 10,000 or so datapoints, so will remove the "none" parenthetical. Those five are all multimillionaires/billionaires and never knew anything but that kind of luxury though. They make a big effort to act normal while slumming it.

 

The men I know who are luxury fiends aren't even all that rich. Some make less than me! A lot go in debt for their habits.

 

Maybe 1:3 women I date has those tendencies. Don't bother with the people picker BS, there's absolutely no way to spot them right off the bat until you see where they live, their car, etc., unless they are so stupid as to broadcast their luxury addiction like a badge of honor (surprisingly many are and will call brand some ridiculous $12 a drink vodka on your tab on the first date... buhbye!)

 

I think perhaps men who think this way are easier to spot because they pick date spots or I just got better at it, I don't know. I used to have similar issues, though. I know LOADS of men who are just like those women you describe is my point.

 

fwiw, I think if you have the money, it's fine to have your "things" to spend a BIT of it on (for instance, hubby spends loads of frivolous money on his computers and gadgets because it makes him happy, and I spend probably too much money on wine, because I like trying things -- I don't disparage a $12 bottle or even a box of $2 chuck on occasion, honestly, but I do occasionally splurge for an $80 bottle or a case of great French champagne or something; I think the problem is when people start seeing splurges as normal expenses). People who keep score in money are really gross to me, though, and I met loads of men who did that. They were also the types who didn't want to hear "No" and would cuss me out when I turned them down and such, too. Ugh. But "chasing luxury," is hardly a woman's game. Plenty of men and women do it. It's the basis for way too much of the American economy too. So many overpriced things to buy these days.

[EasyHeart]

I know lots of materialistic men. L-O-T-S. It's definitely not gender-specific to women.

 

I'm never waste me money, though. All those action figures are INVESTMENTS, dammit!

[dasein]

The men I know

 

Whatever parity may exist in other issues, in the land of the luxury addicts, the vast majority of residents have a vagina.

 

[zengirl]

Thanks, EH. That's all I'm saying.

 

Whatever parity may exist in other issues, in the land of the luxury addicts, the vast majority of residents have a vagina.

 

 

Yeah, Chris Rock's standup comedy is not a "source" of data.

 

I'm not sure why you feel so convinced on this one, but if your convictions regularly come from standup comedy routines. . . that explains a lot!

[dasein]

It's definitely not gender-specific to women.

 

One single trip to a shopping mall, an hour spent watching tv, or a trip to the magazine counter at the grocery store disproves the above completely. This is one of those internet deals where people will freely say the most outlandish things as long as they don't have to sit across a table from real live people and say them without blushing or laughing.

 

With very few exceptions, it's not male proclivities that fuel the "McMansion," "tanklike SUV," "custom/designer home furnishings," "luxury clothing/fashion," "fancy preschool," "spa, salon and cosmetics," "luxury travel," "gourmet dining," "luxury toy," etc. industries that comprise a giant piece of the consumer economy. Lots of the money may be -spent- by men, but it is spent at -women's- behest.

 

Chris Rock also said that if a man could live in a cardboard box and still get p-ssy he would, and he wasn't too far off. Walk up to ten women and ten men on the street, ask them to speak to their preferences with respect to threadcount or cheese or furniture design... get back to me.

[brokenTom]

IME guys are more materialistic and into big expensive luxury items, while women merely want more variety in clothes, food and music, smaller stuff.

 

I think it depends on your age, location, work place, etc...

[zengirl]

I've certainly had far more men brag to me about how much money they spend on something than women. The women I know are far more likely to emphasize how much money they saved.

 

Here's an interesting article on luxury trends. Certainly not conclusive, but interesting. Men still make up most of the highest-end luxury car market, and women the highest-end luxury shoe market (no surprises there) but it's starting to even out. Really, men and women likely favor DIFFERENT luxury goods, though that's changing apparently.

 

Luxury shopper surprise: Men buy like women, vice versa

 

Women are still the ones who clip most coupons. *shrug* By far. Online couponing has bridged the gap, but even that hasn't closed it.

 

Women Clip Most Coupons

[dasein]

IME guys are more materialistic and into big expensive luxury items,

 

You mean like the $1 million + custom designer McMansions that men crave so and are constantly dragging their wives and GFs to look at? or the 300k or so of custom designer furniture, fixtures, appliances to fill up the McMansion that men spend so much time worrying over and picking out? How about the giant, indestructible 60k gas guzzling SUVs that all the soccer -dads- drive? Or the $500-2000 per month that men spend on spas, hair, cosmetics and clothing, are those the big ticket items you are talking about? Country Clubs with 50k initiation fees and 1000 per month base charges because men are so into social climbing and keeping up with the Joneses? Maybe you were talking about the expensive jewelry and 20k + engagement rings that men expect as gifts? or massive weddings often running in excess of 100k that men expect and spend so much time planning, or the $1000 or so on food the predominately male customer base spends monthly at Whole Foods?

 

Sorry, being facetious to make a point. If you want to talk about social problems, sure we do most of the crimes. But when it comes to perpetuating a luxury addicted, ecologically unsustainable consumerist boondoggle, we got mostly women and their proclivities, and of course the men who indulge them, to thank.

 

I cringe going through McMansion suburbs and seeing the tanning bed, platinum blondes (same exact color on all of them, how the f do they pull that off?) women out in the front yards rearranging their sprinklers so they don't get a brown patch on their 50,000 dollar landscaping wearing their "think globally act locally" t-shirt they got for a $20 donation to greenpeace.

[brokenTom]

I cringe going through McMansion suburbs and seeing the tanning bed, platinum blondes (same exact color on all of them, how the f do they pull that off?) women out in the front yards rearranging their sprinklers so they don't get a brown patch on their 50,000 dollar landscaping wearing their "think globally act locally" t-shirt they got for a $20 donation to greenpeace.

This is how you spend your free time? Cruising through suburbs and scoffing at people? I can picture it now... why put yourself though all that man?

 

Who owns and lusts after territories? Who starts wars with other countries? Who are the million/billionaires? Who owns the majority of yachts and other luxury vehicles? Who spends money on trophy wives to continue to look their best so they can be shown off to their buddies and get that oh-so-important high-five approval dick-measuring award of the year?

 

Maybe you are talking about the top 1% and I was talking about the majority of people. I certainly don't have the answers, btw, you could be right. Any data on that? Maybe that would help.

Edited April 11, 2012 by brokenTom

[dasein]

This is how you spend your free time? Cruising through suburbs and scoffing at people? I can picture it now... why put yourself though all that man?

 

Would that I had a choice in the matter. I could wear a blindfold when driving I guess.

 

Who owns and lusts after territories?

 

that bears on luxury consumerism and purchases how?

 

Who starts wars with other countries?

 

see above, how?

 

Who are the million/billionaires?

 

Women control a significant amount more wealth than men in the U.S. (60-70%), and a huge amount more purchasing power (80%+)

 

Who owns the majority of yachts and other luxury vehicles?

 

a teeny tiny itty bitty % of the population of both genders. All the examples I listed OTOH are relatively common, mass market luxuries in the middle and upper middle classes.

 

Who spends money on trophy wives to continue to look their best so they can be shown off to their buddies and get that oh-so-important high-five approval dick-measuring award of the year?

 

I did allow for "and the men who indulge them" already.

[mesmerized]

One single trip to a shopping mall, an hour spent watching tv, or a trip to the magazine counter at the grocery store disproves the above completely. This is one of those internet deals where people will freely say the most outlandish things as long as they don't have to sit across a table from real live people and say them without blushing or laughing.

 

With very few exceptions, it's not male proclivities that fuel the "McMansion," "tanklike SUV," "custom/designer home furnishings," "luxury clothing/fashion," "fancy preschool," "spa, salon and cosmetics," "luxury travel," "gourmet dining," "luxury toy," etc. industries that comprise a giant piece of the consumer economy. Lots of the money may be -spent- by men, but it is spent at -women's- behest.

 

Chris Rock also said that if a man could live in a cardboard box and still get p-ssy he would, and he wasn't too far off. Walk up to ten women and ten men on the street, ask them to speak to their preferences with respect to threadcount or cheese or furniture design... get back to me.

 

 

Men and women are BOTH materialistic in DIFFERNET ways. A man might not care how his bedroom looks like, might not care about jewlry etc but he DOES care about how his car is like or how great his TV and other male toys are. Men tend to spend a ridiculous amount of money on these stuff. Men also judge each other based on their material posessions and brag about it all the time. It's a status sign and men don't want status just to get women, trust me I've seen how my dad and his friends talk about their possessions.

 

And honestly, at the end of the day a lot of men do appreciate having women to make them a more beautiful/pleasant place to live in! Just because they don't get involved in it as much doesn't mean they won't appreciate the end result.

 

And for the record, I'm like men in that regard! I appreciate having luxury things but I don't have the greatest taste/patience for them. I have my own things I spend money on, like everyone else on this planet who makes money! When I go traveling, I stay at the cheapest hotels/hostels as long as the quality isn't too bad. Not because I'm cheap or non- materialistic but because I like to spend my money on other stuff that are important to me.

Edited April 11, 2012 by mesmerized

[Kamille]

Isn't this thread supposed to be about educated / career women?

[EasyHeart]

You mean like the $1 million + custom designer McMansions that men crave so and are constantly dragging their wives and GFs to look at? or the 300k or so of custom designer furniture, fixtures, appliances to fill up the McMansion that men spend so much time worrying over and picking out? How about the giant, indestructible 60k gas guzzling SUVs that all the soccer -dads- drive? Or the $500-2000 per month that men spend on spas, hair, cosmetics and clothing, are those the big ticket items you are talking about? Country Clubs with 50k initiation fees and 1000 per month base charges because men are so into social climbing and keeping up with the Joneses? Maybe you were talking about the expensive jewelry and 20k + engagement rings that men expect as gifts? or massive weddings often running in excess of 100k that men expect and spend so much time planning, or the $1000 or so on food the predominately male customer base spends monthly at Whole Foods?

Ummm. . . yeah.

 

Again, I know lots of men who brag about that stuff. L-O-T-S. They brag about their 6000 sq. ft. houses, they brag about their pools, they brag about the lake they live on, they brag about their (third) boat, they brag about their SUVs, they brag about their watches, they brag about their suits, they brag about their golf clubs, they brag about their country club memberships, they brag about their scotch, they brag about their cigars, they brag about their wine cellars, they brag about the restaurants they eat at, they brag about their vacations (and vacation homes), they brag about their kids' private schools, they brag about all the important people they know, they brag about how much their investments return, they brag about their real estate, they brag about their art collections. Hell, they brag about their frakking lawn mowers and snow blowers!!!

 

I have no idea what strange reality you inhabit, but it's nothing like mine.

 

Oh, and I shop at Whole Foods every week. I'll go even more often when they finish building the new one three blocks from my penthouse on the riverfront. It'll save some mileage on my European driving machine.

[2sure]

It seems to me that this is true.

 

Even if the women try to date, they often fail because they don't really want to give up anything in their career life.

 

They also always feel like competing with men so they don't want to be feminine or anytihing and they always feel like if they start dating that that is going backwards and giving up their power.

 

And many of these career/education women often end up; in their 40's or 50's going to dating sites cause theyspent all their youth in their careers.

 

...No. That's not it. Most of the women who are over 40 on dating sites are there because they were married for 10 or 20 years and raising children.

 

....Also, I have found that it is difficult to have a relationship with men that earn less than I do ONLY because they aren't comfortable with it.

 

....And yes, as I've gotten older I am less likely to consider a serious relationship with someone who, for example, cannot get away on vacation as often as I like.