taiko Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Thanks for the info. So if a person gets a civil divorce and is not allowed an annulment, I would assume they can get remarried (just not in the eyes of the Catholic church). Unless the person is a Philippines citizen living in the Republic of the Philippines and initiated a divorce in another nation as that is the last place on earth where a divorce is not recognized hence a person can not remarry there. There are exceptions, as divorce is only recognized if a foreign nation accepted the divorce of one of its residents or you married a Muslim man under Sharia Law, Muslims have proved willing to fight over such issues, the secular and other religious minorities do not. Link to post Share on other sites
LookAtThisPOst Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 nd yet I have seen cases where a woman is being abused and ADVISED to STAY in the abuse Funny you mention this. A woman I dated last year, she was 30...said in her marriage back when she was 19 years old and going to college at the same time. She was engaged to her mentally abusive boyfriend. The small, Baptist church there was pretty zealous and she went to her pastor about it...saying she wasn't so sure about getting married to the guy for this reason. The pastor said that she better follow through with the engagement, because it was something sacred and backing out now would be inadvisable. For some reason, the pastor saw some kind of disloyalty to God if she were to pull out of the marriage. Being as young and influential as she was, she listened to the pastor, got married, and suffered through 2 years of he**. To this very DAY, it still messed her head up...the insecurities she derived from it messed up our relationship. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
TheFinalWord Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Thank you for the verses, but, if you read my question, I was actually asking if there is a particular verse that condemns premarital sex. I read about half of the verses from the link, but I didn't see any verses speaking directly to premarital sex. If you know of a verse, I'd appreciate you sharing it with me. The verses from Matthew were particularly interesting though. The ones that say don't divorce unless there is adultery involved. Why do we ignore that verse? Do Catholics allow divorce today? . Link to post Share on other sites
Reels Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Religion is why I never lost virginity. Link to post Share on other sites
GooseChaser Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I definitely felt guilt! I was raised to see sex as something dirty, bad, and risky, and to have strong negative feelings toward it like fear and disgust. I've largely let go of these bad feelings and feel better this way. It's just one fewer piece of myself to reject. (I still see it as risky in ways.) I do hold onto some positive lessons from my upbringing though like caution and patience so I value that very much too. Link to post Share on other sites
Author FredRutherford Posted November 8, 2015 Author Share Posted November 8, 2015 I definitely felt guilt! I was raised to see sex as something dirty, bad, and risky, and to have strong negative feelings toward it like fear and disgust. I've largely let go of these bad feelings and feel better this way. It's just one fewer piece of myself to reject. (I still see it as risky in ways.) I do hold onto some positive lessons from my upbringing though like caution and patience so I value that very much too. That's quite a testimony. Thanks for sharing it. I think many were raised to think negatively of sex or consider it "dirty." Sex in itself isn't wrong. It's the misuse or abuse of it that's bad. Link to post Share on other sites
Author FredRutherford Posted January 5, 2016 Author Share Posted January 5, 2016 *** bumped *** to keep active. Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 These are all very legitimate questions. I hear the "adultery only" things over and over...of course IN CONTEXT Jesus was addressing a very specific population with very specific practices of the time. And yet I have seen cases where a woman is being abused and ADVISED to STAY in the abuse, even told to "submit more." Really??? And yes, abandonment. If someone leaves you, you've been abandoned. Jesus was clear about grounds for divorce, but he didn't say a person had to stay co-located in a dangerous situation. Those are the facts of the faith, inconvenient as they may be. Link to post Share on other sites
BC1980 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I think what we don't really want to admit is that most of us have to decide what teachings we take literally and which ones don't apply to our situation. Maybe certain teachings just don't apply to our times, and, at the end of the day, it's more of a personal and emotional choice than one driven by scripture. That idea isn't the most popular one out there, but it's really closer to what we do in practice. The majority of us practice our own brand of moral relativism whether we admit to it or not. When it comes to sex before marriage, I don't know of any place in the Bible that mentions that as a specific sin. There is mention of sexual purity, but that term is ambiguous. One could interpret it many ways depending on the circumstances. I dated a guy that thought any type of oral sex was impure but felt that it was okay to masturbate. So to each his own. We each have our own ideas about what constitutes sexual impurity. It might be beneficial to look at the historical and cultural reasons around the idea of waiting until marriage to have sex. I think one of the big reasons would be the fear of getting pregnant because there was no contraception. For a woman to get pregnant out of wedlock would be catastrophic because she would have no way to support herself or her child. Women needed the protection a marriage could offer her and her children. So I think it's very possible that the Church simply decided to teach that is was impure to have sex before marriage as a way to scare people (women mainly) into staying virgins until marriage. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I think what we don't really want to admit is that most of us have to decide what teachings we take literally and which ones don't apply to our situation. Some, many even, of the principles are vague or matters of conscience, but this particular one and a few others are extremely clear cut and explicit. Not saying one is a good person for following it or bad for ignoring it but no one should imagine they are a Christian and not follow this. There is no "if this applies to your situation" clause in the recorded words. Link to post Share on other sites
Samhain Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I was raised Catholic. Sex and masturbation just wouldn't be the same without the guilt. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Qboro90 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Some, many even, of the principles are vague or matters of conscience, but this particular one and a few others are extremely clear cut and explicit. Not saying one is a good person for following it or bad for ignoring it but no one should imagine they are a Christian and not follow this. There is no "if this applies to your situation" clause in the recorded words. The Bible wasn't written by avg men.... And only men. Hundreds of years after Jesus life ended. If someone is a devout Christian, Catholic etc and want to hold up The Bible as ever lasting and adhere to it as strictly as they believe then they have the ability to do so. Can't say that some passages and topics are very clearly black and white, while others are open to interpretation or bendable, or even outdated. It's either all "the intent and word of God", or it's meant for each individual, member of faith lead their lives in a manner in which they believe God would be proud of based of how they view the Bibles teachings/scripture. The church on Christmas and part time Christians however who want to believe that their faith is the higher power, are in no place to point fingers about what's right and wrong or how they choose to build their marriage... Or end it. Even the most devout Christians generally look at the Old Testament and disregard a lot of it as far as in a literal sense. And since the words are written and translated by only men, across centuries, and into countless languages and forms... Wouldn't most rational people see that the grey areas of the religion, the outdated stoning punishment, selling off your daughter, etc.. Probably aren't suited for their lives in 2016. The overall message as BC alluded to is what one should take from it. If you led your life that way, we're kind to others, lived with honor and respect and kindness... I highly doubt that you'll be turned away from the pearly gates if you also divorced your wife after 18 years. And if someone's God can't overlook that and see the moral and admirable life you led otherwise... Then why would someone want to follow such a cruel and unforgiving higher power? Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Even the most devout Christians generally look at the Old Testament and disregard a lot of it ... Well yes, since (according to the Christian belief system) the Christ said to do so ... That's "following the directions", the opposite of taking what you want and tossing the rest. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Qboro90 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Well yes, since (according to the Christian belief system) the Christ said to do so ... That's "following the directions", the opposite of taking what you want and tossing the rest. Well yes what? Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Well yes what? .... Christians generally look at the Old Testament and disregard a lot of it .... That ..... Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Some, many even, of the principles are vague or matters of conscience, but this particular one and a few others are extremely clear cut and explicit. Not saying one is a good person for following it or bad for ignoring it but no one should imagine they are a Christian and not follow this. There is no "if this applies to your situation" clause in the recorded words. Well...I would disagree that this one's clear cut and explicit either. What's "sexual immorality," after all, when you really think about it? Or "fornication"? That word is culturally, not explicitly, defined, and its definition has mutated over time so it's hardly straightforward. Nowadays perhaps you'll see the predominant definition of fornication as sex outside of marriage, but the original definition of the word was much more fungible, encompassing anything from idolatry to lewdness to prostitution. Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) Well...I would disagree that this one's clear cut and explicit either. What's "sexual immorality," after all, when you really think about it? Or "fornication"? That word is culturally, not explicitly, defined, and its definition has mutated over time so it's hardly straightforward. Nowadays perhaps you'll see the predominant definition of fornication as sex outside of marriage, but the original definition of the word was much more fungible, encompassing anything from idolatry to lewdness to prostitution. Perhaps, but try to find a mainstream Christian religion that doesn't interpret fornication to be sex outside of marriage. I was taught [Catholicism] that masturbation was okay as long as you don't have any unclean thoughts. The only sex education class that I ever had was given by a priest! How is that for irony... if not absurdity! Edited January 12, 2016 by Robert Z Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) .... "fornication"? That word is culturally, not explicitly, defined, and its definition has mutated over time.... It's taken from the word pornea and between the very well known meaning of the word and it's context it's extremely clear that it means sexual contact between a person and either another person not their spouse, or an animal. Apparently plants are OK. Fornix is similar. Other uses are metaphorical. Edited January 12, 2016 by 123321 1 Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 It's taken from the word pornea and between the very well known meaning of the word and it's context it's extremely clear that it means sexual contact between a person and either another person not their spouse, or an animal. Apparently plants are OK. Fornix is similar. Other uses are metaphorical. Nah. Porneia. Basically what I just said, which is that the word - porneia - has many meanings, and premarital sex or sex outside marriage isn't strictly one of them. One common biblical translation is fornication, which also has many meanings; the root of the word is the Latin "fornix", which has an interesting definition that specifically relates to prostitution. As for "well known meaning of the word" and "context" you're just proving my point, which is that it's cultural, not literal. In other words, subject to interpretation, which is the opposite of the point you intended to make, I think. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MyrtleMayhem Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 No I didn't feel bad one bit. If anything I felt like "that's it?", "that's what all the buzz is about?". I grew up in a conservative family and had it drilled into my head that sex before marriage was wrong but I was always a little rebellious;) Once I had sex I realized it wasn't so sacred, special, or life changing like my family told me. It was just that, sex. Link to post Share on other sites
Author FredRutherford Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 Bumping to keep active... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
dreamingoftigers Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Bumping to keep active... I didn't become a Christian until after i lost my virginity. But I did have a sexual partner who became my husband and I felt tremendous guilt after the first couple of times together. After that we were like rabbits. I saved myself for four years prior to that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SammySammy Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I don't claim to be a great Christian, but I was raised in the church. Father a pastor for almost all of my life. Still a pastor. I expected to wait until marriage, my wife to be my one and only, and all of that. Yes, I was disappointed and embarrassed. Led me to make some hasty marriage decisions which I later regretted. Divorced. Which led to a lot of other conflicted feelings and opinions about sex and marriage. I think people should live by their convictions. Do what you feel is best for you. And let me do what I feel is best for me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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