Feminists are ruining men.

[FrustratedStandards]

I went a little extreme with the title, but I figured it would get your attention.

 

The right to vote, the right to work, the right for education. Yes, all good things and I would have fought for them myself.

 

However, there are those women who don't like it when a man holds the door for her. "I can hold it myself". They don't let a man pay on dates "I can pay for myself" among other things.

 

These are the extremes of course, and not all feminists are like that. HOWEVER, these women are ruining men. Chivalry is dying because of this.

 

All this "I can do everything myself" attitude has turned men into losers who don't know how to be gentlemen. How many times have I heard guys say they don't do something anymore because they got yelled at or rejected for doing it (kissing a girl on the hand, or holding the door open for her for example).

 

These types of women are ruining it for the rest of us. I don't blame men that chivalry is dead. I blame the women.

[verhrzn]

Men still do plenty of things that the majority of women don't like and yell at them about. Why have they stopped only the certain behaviors deemed "chivalrous"?

 

There are still plenty of women who want a guy to pay for her supper and wouldn't yell at him for it, and guys have now started blaming those women "gold-diggers." (See: any thread on this site that asks who should pay.) So, there's a behavior right there that some/most women still want, but men are now refusing to do.

 

In other words.... women are not responsible for men's actions. Heck, an individual woman isn't even directly responsible for an individual man's actions. Men themselves have decided to stop those certain behaviors.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I promise you that it's very possible to vote, be educated, work, self reliant, and even be a :sick: feminist ! :sick:; and still let your guy know that you like having the door held open for you…

 

In my experience, men are often inspired to be chivalrous.

[Mme. Chaucer]

There are still plenty of women who want a guy to pay for her supper and wouldn't yell at him for it, and guys have now started blaming those women "gold-diggers." .

 

God help the women who end up going on a date with these fellows. If any ever do.

[FrustratedStandards]

Men still do plenty of things that the majority of women don't like and yell at them about. Why have they stopped only the certain behaviors deemed "chivalrous"?

 

There are still plenty of women who want a guy to pay for her supper and wouldn't yell at him for it, and guys have now started blaming those women "gold-diggers." (See: any thread on this site that asks who should pay.) So, there's a behavior right there that some/most women still want, but men are now refusing to do.

 

In other words.... women are not responsible for men's actions. Heck, an individual woman isn't even directly responsible for an individual man's actions. Men themselves have decided to stop those certain behaviors.

 

Yes, I agree with you. Thank you for understanding! And you're right, i've been deemed a gold-digger more than I can count, all because I think a man should pay on dates. It's so frustrating. They just don't get it.

 

Even though gentlemen still exist, they are very small in numbers. And I blame this "movement" for it. I use the term movement very loosely because it has done great things. By "movement" I mean women becoming so stone cold and rude with men because they think that's what makes a woman independent or tough.

 

Stupidity is so bothersome. *sigh*

 

I promise you that it's very possible to vote, be educated, work, self reliant, and even be a :sick: feminist ! :sick:; and still let your guy know that you like having the door held open for you…

 

In my experience, men are often inspired to be chivalrous.

 

This is true, but often time men complain because the think that when a woman wants "chivalry" she is expecting "too much" and wants a "prince charming". They just don't get it.

Edited April 2, 2012 by FrustratedStandards

[TaraMaiden]

men brought this upon themselves.

if men had not insisted on entering into War, they would not have left the womenfolk at home to work the land, keep the factories open, and look after the country while the men were fighting.

this is what tipped the scales.

Women were left to fill the jobs men vacated.

And when the men came home - women did not wish to be relegated to a secondary role any more.

millennia of subjugation came to an end.

Women had become accustomed to doing the jobs for the boys.

And proved they were more than capable.

 

but women in the workplace are still earning less than men for doing the same jobs, women are still doing more chores and housework, as well as holding full-time jobs, and women are still discriminated against world-wide.

 

Rape within marriage, in the UK was only made illegal in 1991.

A western, civilised country, that is party to the Human Rights Act, only rendered marital rape unlawful at the end of the last century.

 

Don't blame these matters on women.

Men are every bit as responsible for the state of affairs.

[Mme. Chaucer]

This is true, but often time men complain because the think that when a woman wants "chivalry" she is expecting "too much" and wants a "prince charming". They just don't get it.

 

Lots of guys can "get it." I think you have some things you don't "get" yourself, though. No offense. I am just saying that maybe it's time to just take a look at you rather than the men or the evil feminists, or whomever. You seem to have a lot of problems in the love department.

[FrustratedStandards]

I understand what you're saying Mme. Chaucer, but it's not me.

 

It's SO HARD to find a decent guy in this city (Toronto). Apparently men in the States are different, I wouldn't know. But the one experience I had with an American man wasn't chivalrous at all.

 

I was in the States for about a week, and when he found out he invited me out to this really nice place. Then he said "let me know if you can make it". Wait a sec, i've never been in this city before, I don't have a car and I don't know my way around, and you're not even offering to pick me up when you DRIVE?

 

Seriously?!

 

For the record, he was interested in me romantically. We would write beautiful letters to each other. I really liked him. He squashed my entire respect for him with that one experience.

[Lois]

I don't know whose fault it is, but good manners seem to be a thing of the past.

[Els]

I think the OP is talking about extremists who call themselves 'feminists', and ruin the name in the process.

 

I agree that if someone opens the door for you, you should thank them nicely instead of being snooty about it. It's just common courtesy.

[FrustratedStandards]

I don't know whose fault it is, but good manners seem to be a thing of the past.

 

Exactly. Why?!?

 

Manners and being a gentleman is SO attractive, so I don't understand why it's becoming less and less common. If something is sexy and it helps you get women, shouldn't men OPT to do it?

 

I think the OP is talking about extremists who call themselves 'feminists', and ruin the name in the process.

 

I agree that if someone opens the door for you, you should thank them nicely instead of being snooty about it. It's just common courtesy.

 

Yes. I'll be honest, whenever I hear the word feminist I roll my eyes. Feminists to me are annoying.

 

The real feminists aren't feminists at all. They are simply intelligent women who don't see how they are possibly unequal. Treated unequally yes, but unequal to a man? Hah. Foolishness.

[oaks]

However, there are those women who don't like it when a man holds the door for her. "I can hold it myself".

 

That's not so much "feminist" as just plain rude. She wouldn't complain like that if another woman had held the door for her, just as no man has ever told me off for holding a door for him. The correct response, of course, is "thank you".

[ThaWholigan]

Take it from someone who's been called a gentleman by many people:

 

Manners don't get the girl

 

 

Still, it should be mandatory to have manners and be a gentleman where possible, but alas, we live on a planet where nobody is the same - and that's probably not such a bad thing.

[FrustratedStandards]

Take it from someone who's been called a gentleman by many people:

 

Manners don't get the girl

 

 

Still, it should be mandatory to have manners and be a gentleman where possible, but alas, we live on a planet where nobody is the same - and that's probably not such a bad thing.

 

You're right. Manners alone don't always get the girl.

 

But you immediately become respectable. Something I can't say for a lot of men.

[Desinova]

Women fought for the right to be treated as equals, but now dislike it when they are treated as equals.

[FrustratedStandards]

Women fought for the right to be treated as equals, but now dislike it when they are treated as equals.

 

That's stupid.

 

Being a gentleman and having manners doesn't have anything to do with equal.

[Els]

Manners don't get the girl

 

Gentlemanliness won the bf huge brownie points when he was pursuing me.

[verhrzn]

I think the OP is talking about extremists who call themselves 'feminists', and ruin the name in the process.

 

I agree that if someone opens the door for you, you should thank them nicely instead of being snooty about it. It's just common courtesy.

 

I think it depends. Holding open the door is a matter of politeness, whatever the genders may be. If you're a woman, you should hold open a door for a man. If you're a man, hold open a door for a woman. It's just plain manners.

 

BUT, I have run across those guys who make a huge scene of holding doors, and make it clear they're doing it because you're a woman. An old high school friend of mine would actually sprint to the doors, so he could get there first and hold it open. He made a big huge deal out of being "chivalrous," and it just rubbed me the wrong way.

 

I don't like being treated differently because of my gender. And I definitely don't like guys who make my gender the reason they do certain things; it leaves me with a feeling of social obligation. Like that whole idea that if the guy pays for the dinner, the woman is expected to give him a little physical something-something in return.

 

Of course, I'm also one of those evil feminists who always insists on paying for my dinner. I've actually had two or three guys fight me on who pays-they try stealing the check while I'm in the bathroom, or arguing with me in front of the waiter. It's bizarre, especially when I read so, so many forum posts and articles about how guys HATE paying, and if you expect it, you are an entitled b*tch.

 

... I'm still against the idea that a political/social movement has made men do anything. There are still plenty of things men do, that feminists hate, and the men continue to do them.

[oaks]

I got called a gentleman by my last gf. This was after we had spent a few hours making out in a public place. I asked her why she thought I was a gentleman, and apparently it was because I kept my hands in respectable places and didn't try dry-humping her.

 

Who knew being a gentleman was so easy?

[Desinova]

That's stupid.

 

Being a gentleman and having manners doesn't have anything to do with equal.

 

 

When was the last time, you opened a car door for your BF?

 

Women wanted to be educated, have careers and equal pay.

 

So if a girl is just as educated as me, has a career like me and earns just as much as I do then why should I pay for stuff? Shouldn't things be 50/50?

 

Women want equality when it benefits them and inequality when it benefits them.

[Tayla]

I confess! I am a feminist and make no bones about it dern that felt good ...now back to cleaning the bathroom and finishing the tax forms. yes even a feminist worries about tub rings...

[TaraMaiden]

In my opinion, in the workplace, on a professional level, the manners should be genderless. if we want equality, and no discrimination, then we should behave accordingly.

 

Out of the workplace, manners, courtesy and grace should exist.

 

for it is as much the duty of a lady to accept with good grace, the gesture of a gentleman, as it is that of the gentleman to treat his lady well.

[Lois]

Exactly. Why?!?

 

Manners and being a gentleman is SO attractive, so I don't understand why it's becoming less and less common. If something is sexy and it helps you get women, shouldn't men OPT to do it?

 

It's not only the men that lack manners though, in my opinion.

[Els]

I think it depends. Holding open the door is a matter of politeness, whatever the genders may be. If you're a woman, you should hold open a door for a man. If you're a man, hold open a door for a woman. It's just plain manners.

 

BUT, I have run across those guys who make a huge scene of holding doors, and make it clear they're doing it because you're a woman. An old high school friend of mine would actually sprint to the doors, so he could get there first and hold it open. He made a big huge deal out of being "chivalrous," and it just rubbed me the wrong way.

 

I don't like being treated differently because of my gender. And I definitely don't like guys who make my gender the reason they do certain things; it leaves me with a feeling of social obligation. Like that whole idea that if the guy pays for the dinner, the woman is expected to give him a little physical something-something in return.

 

Of course, I'm also one of those evil feminists who always insists on paying for my dinner. I've actually had two or three guys fight me on who pays-they try stealing the check while I'm in the bathroom, or arguing with me in front of the waiter. It's bizarre, especially when I read so, so many forum posts and articles about how guys HATE paying, and if you expect it, you are an entitled b*tch.

 

... I'm still against the idea that a political/social movement has made men do anything. There are still plenty of things men do, that feminists hate, and the men continue to do them.

 

I'm not sure why you feel the bolded is true. If you offer to pay and are repeatedly turned down, there is no obligation either way - you're just doing the right and polite thing by not turning it into a big unpleasant scene. In fact, I think the entire obligation idea is laughable at best - I certainly don't feel obligated to make out with a guy just because he bought me dinner. Then again, I always offer and don't expect a date to do so, and I also don't think very highly of women who expect it and make a big deal out of it if the guy doesn't pay, either.

 

I definitely think that everyone has supreme responsibility and ownership of their own actions, but there is such a thing as discouraging them. If I help someone out with something and they get all up in arms about a nice gesture, I will definitely not help them out again. Human nature. So we should encourage nice actions and discourage the bad.

 

IMO, if you're taking it to the extent of arguing in front of the waiter, it's a very unattractive thing to do, and is likely to turn a potential date away. Despite there being equality, there are still differences between the genders. Many men (not all), enjoy a woman who lets them treat her like a lady if he wants to, instead of arguing with him over it.

[dasein]

Women want equality when it benefits them and inequality when it benefits them.

 

Pretty much.

 

If women want to be treated in a special way, like ladies, then they shouldn't conduct their social lives like men with vaginas. Sorry to burst the bubble, but special treatment doesn't attach to the possession of a vagina, never did, rather to a certain standard of behavior that just doesn't exist any more.

 

I don't have to say much else. Readers can read the posts in this thread and get direct exposure to the lovely female attitudes they are likely to experience out dating in the USA. 100% privilege 0% accountability.