RedRobin Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 ... and I'm going to kind of summarize my thoughts on the prior threads with this... There are no guarantees. The best we can do is make our best judgement based on the information we have. If we make a bad decision, learn from it, and move on. I learned long ago that it is retarded to try to 'pull' people towards anything.
insertnamehere Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 The problem I have with commitment is that the women I've been involved with seem to want to skip the entire process and just jump to the commitment. It may just be the type I attract, but in my experience a lot of women are on pins and needles from the first hello hoping and praying for a guy to just go all-in and fall for them and commit. I feel like women don't give guys any room to just date enough that we get to know each other. I'd like to find a woman whose mind is in a good place where she could handle a few dates before completely losing her **** about commitment. 2
MrNate 2.0 Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Here's a ground breaking idea... *drum roll please* Maybe true love really IS that hard to find, and that's what makes it so special! (Shocking, I know) So instead of blaming men, grow some ovaries and do something about it. 2
verhrzn Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 The direction of this thread is so predictable! I find it astounding and laughable how it always turns out to be the man's fault . Well it IS the man's actions. Men directly control whether or not they commit, and whether or not they sleep around. Unless you're trying to say women are actually to blame for all of men's actions? 1
Hetzer Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 I don't think I would want to commit to a woman at this point. All the girls i've ever known have had 1 night stands with the scummiest of the scum, then turn around and expect the normal guys to commit to them. Women want to have it all.
ThaWholigan Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Well it IS the man's actions. Men directly control whether or not they commit, and whether or not they sleep around. Unless you're trying to say women are actually to blame for all of men's actions? I'm saying it takes two to tango. Men do directly control whether or not they commit or want to sleep around, HOWEVER I'm seeing a lot of inaccurate generalizations about the mindset of men which boggle the mind quite frankly and shows how little insight some women actually have, which I find rather interesting. All too often there are a subset of women who attribute every wrong in their dating lives to the faults of men and, honestly even for a mild-mannered old soul like me, it gets a little tiresome to read over and over again. Any time anything is said about women and their bad behaviors, there's either always reasons that relate back to it being the fault of men, or it's shouted down as misogynistic in some way. I don't really condone when men blame all their problems on women either, so it's only fair I call women out on it too.
verhrzn Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 I'm saying it takes two to tango. Men do directly control whether or not they commit or want to sleep around, HOWEVER I'm seeing a lot of inaccurate generalizations about the mindset of men which boggle the mind quite frankly and shows how little insight some women actually have, which I find rather interesting. All too often there are a subset of women who attribute every wrong in their dating lives to the faults of men and, honestly even for a mild-mannered old soul like me, it gets a little tiresome to read over and over again. Any time anything is said about women and their bad behaviors, there's either always reasons that relate back to it being the fault of men, or it's shouted down as misogynistic in some way. I don't really condone when men blame all their problems on women either, so it's only fair I call women out on it too. Except the exact same thing happens with women. Look at the thread I linked... it's somehow the OP's fault that she didn't read her bf's mind and figure out that even though he's committed to her, he isn't committed to her?? (Like I said, that thread really upset me...) For me, it really does seem like guys just have this image in their heads of the perfect woman, and if a woman doesn't fit it, then she's good for nothing more than being strung along. Maybe some women have that mindset too, but this thread isn't about women's issues with committing, it's men's... And the lack of commitment on men's side seems to be a pretty far reaching issue. It seems pretty ridiculous to me to lay all that blame (that they are not perfect beings) at the feet of women. Exactly what part of the problem are men taking responsibility for? That women can't read their minds?
Mantis Toboggan Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Except this thread is all about how men AREN'T committing. So what message does that send... that all of us women are trash? Single guys don't seem to want to commit to ANYONE except the "perfect" girl. Which means if you aren't some mysterious definition of "perfect," you're out of luck. It just always strikes me as suspicious and hollow when guys claim they totally want a relationship, but only for the "right" girl. It's like the lazy person at the office who says he really is a hard worker, but only when he's found the perfect job. Who are they supposed to want a relationship with? The wrong girl? Every girl they date? Men want commitment, but yes, it has to be with the right person. Is that wrong? Is it wrong to date? Is it wrong for relationships to end? You're making it sound like we're supposed to force ourselves to commit to a woman we're not thrilled with just for the sake of having a commitment. This is dating. It's not a job. I NEED a job. I dont need a girlfriend. Sure, I want a relationship. If a relationship grows with any of the women I'm dating, then great. If not, then so be it. You make it sound like a relationship is some kind of End Goal. Like it's something you HAVE TO do before you die. My only goal is to spend my short time in this life with the best people I can gather. Hopefully during my time here, I find the right girl. If not, then it wasn't meant to be. But I'm not forcing myself into something just to have it. If that means that I'm evil for waiting for the "right girl", then okay. Seems better than forcing myself to commit to the wrong girl. 2
joystickd Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 To the women here we live in the real world. In the real world not all men 1. Cheat on partners 2. Choose porn over meeting women 3. Are not afraid of commitment 4. Are looking for models 5. Want to be your surrogate boyfriend 6. Are looking for sex So please woman up and join everyone else in the real world and stop living in your reality. Its annoying to see the attacks on men but when a man keeps it real its wrong or like in my case I got called abusive on here because I call it like I see it. Quit being a Debbie Downer its not helping your cause at all. If a man that saw some of your posts that's was talking to you I bet he would not commit. Please join everyone else here in the real world its great here because everyone is different. 2
ThaWholigan Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Except the exact same thing happens with women. Look at the thread I linked... it's somehow the OP's fault that she didn't read her bf's mind and figure out that even though he's committed to her, he isn't committed to her?? (Like I said, that thread really upset me...) For me, it really does seem like guys just have this image in their heads of the perfect woman, and if a woman doesn't fit it, then she's good for nothing more than being strung along. Maybe some women have that mindset too, but this thread isn't about women's issues with committing, it's men's... And the lack of commitment on men's side seems to be a pretty far reaching issue. It seems pretty ridiculous to me to lay all that blame (that they are not perfect beings) at the feet of women. Exactly what part of the problem are men taking responsibility for? That women can't read their minds? I don't think it was written in the way you are insinuating, and as I have also read that thread I don't quite know why you are so upset by it. Some people aren't as adept at picking things up, from both genders. You have to remember that this is all subjective. What I am speaking of is the seemingly unchallenged notion that men universally do not commit and that the sole reason women have problems in relationships in general is the fault of men. I don't doubt that men may contribute many times, but as I am saying, it's important to realize that in the grand scheme of things BOTH genders have their ****-ups. This thread was about why a significant portion of men wish not to commit, and it then turned into a thread about why all men in general aren't partial to committing, which is a gross exaggeration in my opinion and one that is inaccurate, considering that there are men who are looking for commitment for various reasons, and conversely women who are looking for casual arrangements for various reasons. Let's not be inflammatory here and attribute blame to a sole gender, as it's usually not really accurate.
threebyfate Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Take a top down approach to analyzing men by groupings: The superficial man who run and guns. You'll find that they're always looking for next best trophy. This is the largest portion of the male population and probably the ones you're encountering if you're finding a lack of commitment from men.Relationship style men who look at women as people and partners. The secret is not to settle for man #1. Don't even sleep with him unless you're an ONS woman who's capable of compartmentalizing sex and emotion.
dasein Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 The superficial man who run and guns. You'll find that they're always looking for next best trophy. This is the largest portion of the male population This is the largest portion of the 5-10% of the male population women find worthy of competing for. Not at all the same as "the largest portion of the male population" not by a long shot. A supermajority of the other 90% are the number 2 type.
threebyfate Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 This is the largest portion of the 5-10% of the male population women find worthy of competing for. Not at all the same as "the largest portion of the male population" not by a long shot. A supermajority of the other 90% are the number 2 type.An outright lie.
verhrzn Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 I don't think it was written in the way you are insinuating, and as I have also read that thread I don't quite know why you are so upset by it. Some people aren't as adept at picking things up, from both genders. You have to remember that this is all subjective. What I am speaking of is the seemingly unchallenged notion that men universally do not commit and that the sole reason women have problems in relationships in general is the fault of men. I don't doubt that men may contribute many times, but as I am saying, it's important to realize that in the grand scheme of things BOTH genders have their ****-ups. This thread was about why a significant portion of men wish not to commit, and it then turned into a thread about why all men in general aren't partial to committing, which is a gross exaggeration in my opinion and one that is inaccurate, considering that there are men who are looking for commitment for various reasons, and conversely women who are looking for casual arrangements for various reasons. Let's not be inflammatory here and attribute blame to a sole gender, as it's usually not really accurate. I don't think all men are terrified of commitment. But here's the rub-if they actually want commitment or a relationship, they probably already have it. A lot of guys around my age and in my social group are married or engaged, and the commonality between all of them are 1) they don't have this romantic notion of the "right girl," they found a girl that has 90% of what they're looking for and called it good 2) they have a history of long term relationships. Girls engage in FWB because it's what they can get. Something being better than nothing, but it's almost always a case of them wanting more from their FWB. Men CAN get relationships a lot easier than women... law of supply and demand. So if a guy says he wants a relationship, but is engaged in a long series of FWBs or swining' singlehood (dating around a lot), then there's a high likelihood he either 1) has very very high expectations of a woman he's dating or 2) deep down, doesn't actually want to give up his singlehood. And honestly, why should he? If a guy can get sex from an FWB, companionship from his friends, and doesn't have the pressure (biologically or socially) to settle down, why WOULD he? Yeah, women could stop giving out casual sex, but all that is going to result in is guys forcing themselves into relationships they don't actually want for the sake of sex, or an uptick in affairs. (The long, long history of women's sexuality being controlled in Western society proves this is not hyperbole.) As to why that thread upsets me so much... partially it's because I get very, very frustrated at men's lack of honesty. It just strongly reminded me of my last relationship, where I KNEW the guy wasn't into me... but he wouldn't just break up with me. I finally had to pull the trigger and end it, and I got called all manner of names for doing so. (Insecure being the front runner.) It seems like guys constantly say, about themselves and other men, "we're so simple!" and then expect women to be mind readers. And then when women incorrectly guess the guy's motivation, it's somehow the girl's fault. Guys like the one in that thread, and the ones I've run into, are VERY inconsistant in their behavior... and it really bothers me when no one calls them out on it. "Games" is supposedly the territory of females, but I've seen just as many men play games of manipulation with a girl's emotions just to get in her pants.
Mantis Toboggan Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Take a top down approach to analyzing men by groupings: The superficial man who run and guns. You'll find that they're always looking for next best trophy. This is the largest portion of the male population and probably the ones you're encountering if you're finding a lack of commitment from men.Relationship style men who look at women as people and partners. The secret is not to settle for man #1. Don't even sleep with him unless you're an ONS woman who's capable of compartmentalizing sex and emotion. I'd say that the largest portion of the male population WISHES they had the ability to always go out and get the next best trophy. In fact, most men I know are relationship-focused. Not necessarily because their hearts are so full of love, but probably because they don't have the tools necessary to succeed in the dating pool. So, the portion of men you speak of are the men who are a combination of good looking, charismatic, successful, and sexual. And yes, this type of person (both men AND women) has options, and doesn't NEED to settle down for the sake of settling down. See, women aren't really saying, "Why are all men afraid to commit." they're saying, "Why are all the good looking, successful, charismatic men afraid to commit." 1
joystickd Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Take a top down approach to analyzing men by groupings: The superficial man who run and guns. You'll find that they're always looking for next best trophy. This is the largest portion of the male population and probably the ones you're encountering if you're finding a lack of commitment from men.Relationship style men who look at women as people and partners. The secret is not to settle for man #1. Don't even sleep with him unless you're an ONS woman who's capable of compartmentalizing sex and emotion. Majority they deal with but not majority of male population. Please join everyone else in the real world
threebyfate Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 I'd say that the largest portion of the male population WISHES they had the ability to always go out and get the next best trophy. In fact, most men I know are relationship-focused. Not necessarily because their hearts are so full of love, but probably because they don't have the tools necessary to succeed in the dating pool.Agreed but I'd still categorize these guys the same way. If people feel they're settling, the likelihood of cheating is much higher. So, the portion of men you speak of are the men who are a combination of good looking, charismatic, successful, and sexual. And yes, this type of person (both men AND women) has options, and doesn't NEED to settle down for the sake of settling down. See, women aren't really saying, "Why are all men afraid to commit." they're saying, "Why are all the good looking, successful, charismatic men afraid to commit."Wrong. The combination of positive traits in a man doesn't ensure he's a dick. A dick is a dick which come in all sizes and shapes.
xxoo Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 If you mean... less guarded meaning they will have sex without asking for exclusivity or commitment, then I agree. That is the focus of this thread. Younger women are naive... and easy 'prey'. These guys are even claim it is their fault... the women's... for giving in so soon and having a low bar on the man's behavior... That's awfully convenient for the men on this thread making that argument. That's a negative spin.... For many of these young women, it will work out fine. They aren't prey. They are engaging in relationships in a way that feels authentic to them, in the place they are. They are looking more for the passion and fun, and less for the commitment. But that means that there are women available for the low-commitment sex relationships men seek. So they don't have to commit if they don't want to. And really, I wouldn't want a man to commit unless he really, really wanted to. 1
Taramere Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Here's Amy getting a-sexual alpha-nerd Sheldon to commit. A bit of good old fashioned, dysfunctional "invoking the competitive instinct". Poor old Stuart. Sometimes I think that the writers of TBBT must be LS regulars who base 90% of the relationship-focused material on stuff they read here.
ThaWholigan Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 I don't think all men are terrified of commitment. But here's the rub-if they actually want commitment or a relationship, they probably already have it. A lot of guys around my age and in my social group are married or engaged, and the commonality between all of them are 1) they don't have this romantic notion of the "right girl," they found a girl that has 90% of what they're looking for and called it good 2) they have a history of long term relationships. Girls engage in FWB because it's what they can get. Something being better than nothing, but it's almost always a case of them wanting more from their FWB. Men CAN get relationships a lot easier than women... law of supply and demand. So if a guy says he wants a relationship, but is engaged in a long series of FWBs or swining' singlehood (dating around a lot), then there's a high likelihood he either 1) has very very high expectations of a woman he's dating or 2) deep down, doesn't actually want to give up his singlehood. And honestly, why should he? If a guy can get sex from an FWB, companionship from his friends, and doesn't have the pressure (biologically or socially) to settle down, why WOULD he? Yeah, women could stop giving out casual sex, but all that is going to result in is guys forcing themselves into relationships they don't actually want for the sake of sex, or an uptick in affairs. (The long, long history of women's sexuality being controlled in Western society proves this is not hyperbole.) As to why that thread upsets me so much... partially it's because I get very, very frustrated at men's lack of honesty. It just strongly reminded me of my last relationship, where I KNEW the guy wasn't into me... but he wouldn't just break up with me. I finally had to pull the trigger and end it, and I got called all manner of names for doing so. (Insecure being the front runner.) It seems like guys constantly say, about themselves and other men, "we're so simple!" and then expect women to be mind readers. And then when women incorrectly guess the guy's motivation, it's somehow the girl's fault. Guys like the one in that thread, and the ones I've run into, are VERY inconsistant in their behavior... and it really bothers me when no one calls them out on it. "Games" is supposedly the territory of females, but I've seen just as many men play games of manipulation with a girl's emotions just to get in her pants. The keyword being seems. If you keep looking for examples to back up your argument, I have no doubt that you will find them, but you will also rule out a larger number of incidents that are otherwise different in many ways. I don't disagree with much of what you have said, there ARE men like this, but it's a myth that this man is an overwhelming majority. Sure, there are a lot of them, but there are also a lot of compassionate men who ARE single who have different values. Games is seen as "feminine" to an extent, I'll agree. However, I think that most attributes are not unique to one gender.
ThaWholigan Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 That's a negative spin.... For many of these young women, it will work out fine. They aren't prey. They are engaging in relationships in a way that feels authentic to them, in the place they are. They are looking more for the passion and fun, and less for the commitment. But that means that there are women available for the low-commitment sex relationships men seek. So they don't have to commit if they don't want to. And really, I wouldn't want a man to commit unless he really, really wanted to. I think one of the issues is definitely that a few women sometimes try to get men to commit too quickly, and while this is certainly irregular, it happens a bit more frequently than is necessary. And some will definitely use sex as a bargaining chip, which is foolish. But such behaviors are not out of the realm of men either.
dasein Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) An outright lie. Any meat on that bun? Thought not. A majority of the male population in the U.S. doesn't have options with women because a majority of the female population vastly overestimates their value in the dating pool and will hold out for a man far above herself in market value. It's their right to do so, but all these threads about men "not committing or not wanting a relationship" are really only talking about either 1) the top 5-10% life mating prospect, or 2) players who have learned to manipulate women as adroitly as women manipulate men. Average men (the bottom 80% in warped U.S. female estimate) take what they can get, if they can get a woman at all. In the U.S. female world, "notfat" = worthy of tall, handsome wealthy professional man, when all she brings to the table is "notfat." Or tell me about all these "average" guys you know who refuse to enter a relationship with a woman unless she is in the top 10% lookswise and earns six figures. Then tell me about the bigfoot in your backyard. Or just go on match and look at all the underemployed single mothers who are obviously looking for a tall, built man with a six figure income. Edited March 18, 2012 by dasein 2
xxoo Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 To the women here we live in the real world. In the real world not all men 1. Cheat on partners 2. Choose porn over meeting women 3. Are not afraid of commitment 4. Are looking for models 5. Want to be your surrogate boyfriend 6. Are looking for sex So please woman up and join everyone else in the real world and stop living in your reality. Its annoying to see the attacks on men but when a man keeps it real its wrong or like in my case I got called abusive on here because I call it like I see it. Quit being a Debbie Downer its not helping your cause at all. If a man that saw some of your posts that's was talking to you I bet he would not commit. Please join everyone else here in the real world its great here because everyone is different. joystickd, this is truth! Many men want a partner, but they want a partner that will be a positive force in their lives. Women are pickier in general about sex partners, and men are pickier in general about commitment. They want it, but they don't want it so badly that they'll offer it to just anybody. (sound like us and sex?)
Taramere Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Any meat on that bun? Thought not. A majority of the male population in the U.S. doesn't have options with women because a majority of the female population vastly overestimates their value in the dating pool and will hold out for a man far above herself in market value. It's their right to do so, but all these threads about men "not committing or not wanting a relationship" are really only talking about either 1) the top 5-10% life mating prospect, or 2) players who have learned to manipulate women as adroitly as women manipulate men. Average men (the bottom 80% in warped U.S. female estimate) take what they can get, if they can get a woman at all. In the U.S. female world, "notfat" = worthy of tall, handsome wealthy professional man, when all she brings to the table is "notfat." Or tell me about all these "average" guys you know who refuse to enter a relationship with a woman unless she is in the top 10% lookswise and earns six figures. Then tell me about the bigfoot in your backyard. I don't think I've ever encountered a woman who regarded her "not fat" status as being her most outstanding quality. If you weren't so ill-disposed towards women generally, you would probably find that lots of women have far more positive things to offer than simply "not being fat".
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