Don't know the best course of action

[pteromom]

I don't know how to make this story short! We've been married for 9 years, together for 11. Throughout our marriage, it has become obvious to me that there is no way to solve problems or negotiate.

 

We'll negotiate a solution to an issue (usually revolving around sex) and things will be going ok... then DH has a meltdown and either gets very sad or very mad, and throws the negotiation out the window. Our arguments are repetitive, and I address the same issues and answer the same questions over and over and over.

 

He has a very high sex drive, and mine is... well, not nearly as high! Still, we have consistently had sex of some type every 2-3 days for our entire marriage. I am SEXED OUT, and every time we do it, I just think that I cannot do it again.

 

I wasn't always this way... it's grown this way because he consistently pressures me to do things I don't want to do.

 

And because he gets very mean and snappy, making mean comments, or making snide remarks about my past (people I dated or things I did before I met him).

 

And because no matter how hard I try or how much of myself I give, he constantly doubts my love and tells me I "hate" him. I always asked him if he was trying to convince me to hate him, and it seems he is doing just that! Not that I hate him, but I have definitely fallen out of love with him.

 

He is so mad that I don't want to do all his sex-fantasy stuff, so we were talking about giving him permission to get it elsewhere. Now he brings that up constantly, asking me to help him find someone.

 

I am tired of all of it! We are nice to each other as a family (we have a young son) but not romantically.

 

I want out. I know I do. I have detached to the point where I feel it is useless to even try. But I am concerned about what it will do to my son. I don't want him hurt, and I don't want to share custody and deal with all that stuff.

 

I read another post on here about how someone's husband wanted to just be roommates, and I guess I might be fine with that scenario. DH could go out and have all the sex he wanted, and I would take care of the house, and just be friends. But I know that won't work long-term.

 

And even in that scenario, I have to deal with DH's negative comments and his negative energy, which gets really draining.

 

I hope this even makes sense. I just need to gain some final clarity so I can make the right decision here...

 

Oh and - no, there's nobody else on my end; not even a possibility or attraction.

 

We have tried marital counseling, and that was a bust. Again, we agreed to a negotiated resolution and then DH had a meltdown and said he didn't want to live this way.

 

I have been doing individual counseling since December. DH doesn't know.

[pteromom]

Oh also - I keep seeing reference to a "180 things" list, but I can't find it on the site. Where is it?

 

Thanks!

[Ingenue 2]

Hi Ptero,

 

I may have been the one to bring up roommates...but only because making love more than every two weeks to a month seemed to set me up for rejection, so like you, I detached. I seriously wondered if my DW might be a repressed lesbian, even though she obviously enjoys the lovemaking when we do.

 

Here's my concern for you: It's a short step from asking permission to fulfill his fantasies with others to fulfilling them, with or without you; and it is a short step from "roommates" to winding up having sex now and then, particularly if your sex drive is in any way influenced by your cycle.

 

And when that happens, assurances or not, you won't know what you are exposing yourself to.

 

You might also consider what it says of his personality/priorities if this is so important to him. If you have a son, do you want him growing up emulating only this man? If you have a daughter together, do you want her to see this as the example of a marriage?

 

Be brave and be scared. They go hand in hand.

[standtall]

Ma...the 180 stuff is on a separate website. We can't post links (because the moderator will think were spammers), so do a g**g** search or something. It basically says that you can't change a person behaviors directly, but by changing your behavior, you can perhaps get them to react differently to you. You accomplish this through a set of rules. This primarily affects the beta personalities as the alphas are usually the ones leaving.

[jaymz]

Ma...the 180 stuff is on a separate website. We can't post links (because the moderator will think were spammers), so do a g**g** search or something. It basically says that you can't change a person behaviors directly, but by changing your behavior, you can perhaps get them to react differently to you. You accomplish this through a set of rules. This primarily affects the beta personalities as the alphas are usually the ones leaving.

 

Have copied the 180 list here for futrure reference: The 180

[KathyM]

You both need quality marriage counseling. If the first therapist was not right for you, then find another. Sometimes it takes a while to find a therapist who can help. Interview them before you go there, and make sure it is a marriage counselor who specializes in sexual incompatibility. Forget the individual counseling--your problem is with getting along with each other. Do NOT let him go outside the marriage to get his needs met, or you will open yourself up for getting some STD, and you will be damaging your marriage. You need a counselor to help you negotiate a reasonable compromise, and who can also resolve some of these other issues you are having--the verbal abuse, etc. Don't give up without giving it your best shot. Your child needs both of you to get your act together and keep his family together.

[pteromom]

Thanks for your feedback. And for posting the 180, Jaymz.

 

Kathy - I hear what you are saying. And two years ago, that's where I was. I wanted to do everything in my power to save the marriage. I read and read and read every book I could find. I've tried doubling my efforts and being very sweet and giving. I've tried getting angry and standing up for myself. I've tried sitting and talking for hours and hours and hours about how we feel. Now I am detached, and just refusing to engage in arguments or discussions other than listening to him and saying "I understand."

 

The verbal abuse is hard to deal with, but the sex stuff is harder. And looking back, there were lots of red flags I should have seen from the start. I got an email from him 6 weeks into our relationship saying we "don't have sex like we used to" because we skipped a couple days. From the start, he was interested in very porn-like sex, whereas I like for sex to be fun and playful.

 

I know his desires are his desires and we are all different with different turn-ons. But over time, the way he looks at sex (and the way he treats ME during sex, which is - I can have tears streaming down my face and he doesn't notice because he is so focused on whatever he is doing to my body) has just completely turned me off. Just seeing his private parts now makes my stomach turn.

 

We have talked about going to a sex therapist, but really - what's the point? They would have us start over... look at each other and kiss each other and touch each other... and the fact is that I don't want him touching me.

 

After sex, he'll say... "I know you need a break from this. I won't ask you again for a week" but 2 nights later, he is rubbing on me and asking me again. Even if I have a bad cold. Even if I have been up since 5AM and am so sleepy I am dizzy. Even if I just lost a family member. Even if I just held my cat that evening as she was put to sleep. Nothing stops his libido. And I am tired of it. I'm just tired of it.

 

The only thing that makes this difficult is that by cutting out the part of my life that brings me so much pain, I have to also cut out some of my life that brings me the most joy - some of my time with my son. That scares me and hurts me, and the question I have to answer is whether getting out of the pain is worth the price I pay.

 

Right now, I do absolutely everything for our son. I do all the daily care, doctor visits, feeding, dressing, college savings, school stuff.... everything. So I would be missing out on a lot if DH took over a few days a week. AND - I would be very concerned about how well he'd do it, because currently, if DH is home with our son, he just puts on a tv show for our son so DH can work.

 

Anyway, I have a lot of thinking to do...

[KathyM]

Thanks for your feedback. And for posting the 180, Jaymz.

 

Kathy - I hear what you are saying. And two years ago, that's where I was. I wanted to do everything in my power to save the marriage. I read and read and read every book I could find. I've tried doubling my efforts and being very sweet and giving. I've tried getting angry and standing up for myself. I've tried sitting and talking for hours and hours and hours about how we feel. Now I am detached, and just refusing to engage in arguments or discussions other than listening to him and saying "I understand."

 

The verbal abuse is hard to deal with, but the sex stuff is harder. And looking back, there were lots of red flags I should have seen from the start. I got an email from him 6 weeks into our relationship saying we "don't have sex like we used to" because we skipped a couple days. From the start, he was interested in very porn-like sex, whereas I like for sex to be fun and playful.

 

I know his desires are his desires and we are all different with different turn-ons. But over time, the way he looks at sex (and the way he treats ME during sex, which is - I can have tears streaming down my face and he doesn't notice because he is so focused on whatever he is doing to my body) has just completely turned me off. Just seeing his private parts now makes my stomach turn.

 

We have talked about going to a sex therapist, but really - what's the point? They would have us start over... look at each other and kiss each other and touch each other... and the fact is that I don't want him touching me.

 

After sex, he'll say... "I know you need a break from this. I won't ask you again for a week" but 2 nights later, he is rubbing on me and asking me again. Even if I have a bad cold. Even if I have been up since 5AM and am so sleepy I am dizzy. Even if I just lost a family member. Even if I just held my cat that evening as she was put to sleep. Nothing stops his libido. And I am tired of it. I'm just tired of it.

 

The only thing that makes this difficult is that by cutting out the part of my life that brings me so much pain, I have to also cut out some of my life that brings me the most joy - some of my time with my son. That scares me and hurts me, and the question I have to answer is whether getting out of the pain is worth the price I pay.

 

Right now, I do absolutely everything for our son. I do all the daily care, doctor visits, feeding, dressing, college savings, school stuff.... everything. So I would be missing out on a lot if DH took over a few days a week. AND - I would be very concerned about how well he'd do it, because currently, if DH is home with our son, he just puts on a tv show for our son so DH can work.

 

Anyway, I have a lot of thinking to do...

Sounds like your husband is addicted to sex, and your feelings are not considered at all. You really do need a marriage counselor that specializes in sexual addictions and sexual issues between couples. There are those out there. One of my professors in college is a marriage counselor that specializes in sexual issues, such as addictions and such. I suggest you find one before giving up on your marriage. I understand your frustration, but I do think it may be possible to improve your situation and your marriage with help from a professional that specializes in these matters. Not just a regular marriage counselor, but one who deals with these issues regularly.

[coopster]

Sounds like your husband is addicted to sex, and your feelings are not considered at all. You really do need a marriage counselor that specializes in sexual addictions and sexual issues between couples. There are those out there. One of my professors in college is a marriage counselor that specializes in sexual issues, such as addictions and such. I suggest you find one before giving up on your marriage. I understand your frustration, but I do think it may be possible to improve your situation and your marriage with help from a professional that specializes in these matters. Not just a regular marriage counselor, but one who deals with these issues regularly.

 

sorry i disagree. HE needs to see a counselor that specializes in sexual addictions, The OP doesn`t.

Pteromom, why dont you just say no?, does he get aggressive?

[KathyM]

sorry i disagree. HE needs to see a counselor that specializes in sexual addictions, The OP doesn`t.

Pteromom, why dont you just say no?, does he get aggressive?

This is a sexual incompatibility issue, where both partners need to be involved in therapy in order to work out some agreement that they can both live with, and which will take both partners feelings into consideration. He does need help with his sexual addiction, but a marriage counselor who specializes in these kinds of issues can help him with that. This is not just his problem, this is a problem that is affecting their marriage, and they both need to be involved in therapy.

[coopster]

This is a sexual incompatibility issue, where both partners need to be involved in therapy in order to work out some agreement that they can both live with, and which will take both partners feelings into consideration. He does need help with his sexual addiction, but a marriage counselor who specializes in these kinds of issues can help him with that. This is not just his problem, this is a problem that is affecting their marriage, and they both need to be involved in therapy.

 

at least wait until you see the reply to my last question to the op! No its NOT just HIS problem. The OP is here because of it thou, HE`s making it HER problem, by being , by the sounds of it, a bully

Edited February 21, 2012 by coopster

[KathyM]

at least wait until you see the reply to my last question to the op! No its NOT just HIS problem. The OP is here because of it thou, HE`s making it HER problem, by being , by the sounds of it, a bully

I'm not saying she is doing anything wrong and that is why they both need marriage counseling. I'm saying this is an issue that affects both of them, and they both need to be involved in handling it. Marriage counselors often work independently with one of the couple in additional sessions to work out certain issues, but to treat this as just one person's problem without the wife getting involved in therapy is not a good plan, since it affects both of them. She also needs support from the counselor in handling him and responding to him in a way that will uphold her rights and needs. They both need to go into this together, since it is a problem that is affecting both of them, and so the counselor will get a clear picture from both about what the situation is.

[pteromom]

Thanks again, Kathy. It's a lot to think about.

 

As far as what he does when I say no, he asks again. When I say no again, he asks again. When I say no again, he starts an argument. They can become very heated, can include just mean horrible insults, and can last ALL NIGHT.

 

So I end up saying yes sometimes, to avoid the argument. And feeling like I am screaming inside while things are being done to me that I don't want.

 

At first, even if I was saying no to specific fantasies, I would always suggest an alternative. I tried to be loving and to always make sure he was satisfied. But over time, I have become very resentful of that. It never goes the other way. As a matter of fact, I gave up on sharing my own desires a long time ago, because he has no interest in fulfilling them.

 

I remember once, a long time ago, I said I just wanted him to kiss me passionately, rip my clothes off, and jump on me, without doing everything else. He did... then the next night, considered that a free pass to do anything he wanted to me, since he had made the night before about me and what I wanted. It wasn't worth it....

 

I do agree that he may have a sex addiction. But deeper than that, I think the whole way he views sex is very flawed. How do you teach someone who grew up thinking porn is what sex should be that actually married sex is about connecting with your partner on an emotional/spiritual level, and then expressing that connection through touch and desire? I guess my main problem is that I don't think he has the CAPABILITY to get to that level.

 

The other issue is... I am not in love with him anymore. So it is very difficult to feel motivated to go to a counselor and try to solve a problem I don't believe has a solution....

[KathyM]

Thanks again, Kathy. It's a lot to think about.

 

As far as what he does when I say no, he asks again. When I say no again, he asks again. When I say no again, he starts an argument. They can become very heated, can include just mean horrible insults, and can last ALL NIGHT.

 

So I end up saying yes sometimes, to avoid the argument. And feeling like I am screaming inside while things are being done to me that I don't want.

 

At first, even if I was saying no to specific fantasies, I would always suggest an alternative. I tried to be loving and to always make sure he was satisfied. But over time, I have become very resentful of that. It never goes the other way. As a matter of fact, I gave up on sharing my own desires a long time ago, because he has no interest in fulfilling them.

 

I remember once, a long time ago, I said I just wanted him to kiss me passionately, rip my clothes off, and jump on me, without doing everything else. He did... then the next night, considered that a free pass to do anything he wanted to me, since he had made the night before about me and what I wanted. It wasn't worth it....

 

I do agree that he may have a sex addiction. But deeper than that, I think the whole way he views sex is very flawed. How do you teach someone who grew up thinking porn is what sex should be that actually married sex is about connecting with your partner on an emotional/spiritual level, and then expressing that connection through touch and desire? I guess my main problem is that I don't think he has the CAPABILITY to get to that level.

 

The other issue is... I am not in love with him anymore. So it is very difficult to feel motivated to go to a counselor and try to solve a problem I don't believe has a solution....

I think you owe it to yourself and to your son to try to work out this issue. I do believe a sex therapist could help and could get your husband to start thinking of sex as a way to show love. It would be worth a try IMO. What have you got to lose at this point? A bit of money, perhaps. Try it, before throwing in the towel. Watching porn for several years probably screwed up his thinking, and put some strange ideas in his head, and he's developed the concept that sex is something you do to a person without regard to whether it is satisfying to the woman. You need help from a professional to get him out of this mindset.