What Are Realistic Expectations In Dating?

[somedude81]

What was the physical conclusion though?

 

Did you cut contact with her or vice versa?

 

I had a similar situation where a female friend I knew well who rejected me was 'playing' with my attempts to be platonic. For all intents and purposes, I was genuinely trying see how she was doing and keep her in my life as a friend. She'd respond to some posts and not others and leave long gaps between responding. I knew she was usually prompt and casual with texting because I was around her. A ton.

 

So either she was playing games or thought I was a tool that wasn't worth keeping as a friend. Either way, not worth it to me.

 

It does kind of upset me that I fell for someone who is such a coarse person though...

She cut contact with me.

 

After that I sent her a couple texts and one email, spaced out by several weeks, she never replied. I was left with no choice but to remove all her contact info from my phone and computer.

So, your mind was racing. You knew deep down you were losing her. In your mind you thought "We had some fun with breast-related jokes in the past. Ah, the past. A time when D and I were tighter than we are now. I hate how she is slipping away from me. I know. I can make a breast-related joke just like I did in the summer time. She laughed then, and we had some good times. Maybe she'll laugh if I play that old card again."

Seriously?

 

Who plans jokes like that

 

We were looking at girls t-shirts and I noticed that some were regular and some were v-neck, that's all I needed to make a cleavage joke and based on what we laughed about before, I assumed it was fine.

 

That's all there is to it.

[irc333]

I had a similar situation where a female friend I knew well who rejected me was 'playing' with my attempts to be platonic. For all intents and purposes, I was genuinely trying see how she was doing and keep her in my life as a friend. She'd respond to some posts and not others and leave long gaps between responding.

 

This....I had this happen with a female friend too, even though I would constant see her post on her FB wall daily, she'd ignore or seriously delay her PM's to me.

 

One time she posted on her wall how she's going somewhere, and was asking if others would want to join her.

 

I private messaged her stating that I'd like to come, and she responded pretty quickly with that.

 

Then I asked for her phone # for when I arrive I knew where to find her specifically. She didn't respond.

 

In the middle of the week, she sent ME a follow up message, asking if I was still going

 

And I said, "Um.....yeah...and I sent you an email asking you for your phone #, did you not get it?"

 

She waited until probably an HOUR before the the gathering to send me an email. She said, OH yeah! Oops...here it is!....."

 

And gave it to me.....I found that very odd, esp when she said "Oh yeah, that's right, you did ask for my #"

 

She knew better, so she was playing games.

[Teknoe]

She cut contact with me.

 

After that I sent her a couple texts and one email, spaced out by several weeks, she never replied. I was left with no choice but to remove all her contact info from my phone and computer.

 

Seriously?

 

Who plans jokes like that

 

We were looking at girls t-shirts and I noticed that some were regular and some were v-neck, that's all I needed to make a cleavage joke and based on what we laughed about before, I assumed it was fine.

 

That's all there is to it.

 

 

You obviously missed the part in my post where I said SUBCONSCIOUS.

 

Meaning, you didn't think of it knowingly... but it played a factor in why you made that joke at the bad time that you did.

 

Again this is just a possible reason.

 

However, you can't deny that there has been more than the breast implant thing to hinge on. You asked for people to give you another example other than the breast implant, and you were given another.

 

Don't take this defensively. Embrace the truth, and start to work toward change in your attitude and thinking.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Teknoe

[counterman]

 

Don't take this defensively. Embrace the truth, and start to work toward change in your attitude and thinking.

 

Agreed -- only then can you, as well as anyone of us, really make any progress to a better life.

[somedude81]

Agreed -- only then can you, as well as anyone of us, really make any progress to a better life.

LOL!

 

What truth?

 

Teknoe is talking how my subconscious might be doing something.

 

This whole talk stemmed how I am supposedly very superficial and that is turning women off, before I say anything.

 

Frankly, it seems like a load of crap to me.

[counterman]

LOL!

 

What truth?

 

Teknoe is talking how my subconscious might be doing something.

 

This whole talk stemmed how I am supposedly very superficial and that is turning women off, before I say anything.

 

Frankly, it seems like a load of crap to me.

 

Hmmm, well, I personally wouldn't know much about that, so I can't really input... I was thinking more about the other things other posters are saying. I'll stay out of this one

[Lonely Ronin]

Frankly, it seems like a load of crap to me.

 

Intuition is very real, and it works both ways.

 

Have you ever heard the phrase "you can't hide who you really are" ? This is exactly why players have to act fast, because it's only a matter of time before the woman (or man if it's a female player) figure out who they really are.

 

It would not surprise me at all, if this is what happened between you and D, she figured out who you really are. When you talk about women it routinely sound like more like a way for you to validate your life, than it does about having someone in it who makes it better.

[somedude81]

What most likely happened between me and D, was that she realized that I would never stop trying to be her boyfriend. The only way to get me to stop, would be to kick me out of her life. I was always trying to make plans with her and invite her somewhere.

 

And then I overstepped my bounds by going into her personal business (the school adviser argument) and that set her off.

 

After that, I just think that she just that figured maintaining a friendship with me was too much work.

 

Frankly, I was surprised it lasted so long. I really don't know why she even wanted to be friends with a guy she knows is interested while not returning that interest. She wasn't short of friends either and didn't need me.

 

Of course this is all me guessing because she refused to tell me why.

[jobaba]

What most likely happened between me and D, was that she realized that I would never stop trying to be her boyfriend. The only way to get me to stop, would be to kick me out of her life. I was always trying to make plans with her and invite her somewhere.

 

And then I overstepped my bounds by going into her personal business (the school adviser argument) and that set her off.

 

After that, I just think that she just that figured maintaining a friendship with me was too much work.

 

Frankly, I was surprised it lasted so long. I really don't know why she even wanted to be friends with a guy she knows is interested while not returning that interest. She wasn't short of friends either and didn't need me.

 

Of course this is all me guessing because she refused to tell me why.

 

Stop thinking you f@cked up. She didn't think you were good looking enough. That's all there is to it! If she thought you were so much of an offensive d@uche, then she wouldn't have been hanging out with you at all in the first place.

 

Do you know how many dog male friends I know who make dirty jokes and have girls laughing and climbing all over them? Enough.

 

Women CANNOT read your mind in real life.

 

I assume you're smart enough to present a confident and happy shell when you're out in public. That's all you need. You don't have to overhaul yourself. Stir up your confidence and get ready for some more rejection. Eventually, you'll hit one. It's how it is.

 

I realize you probably read my advice and automatically dismiss it. I have been closer to your situation than anybody else on this message board. Are you going to listen to a bunch of women and a tall pretty boy (no offense) who have never been rejected in their life or are you going to listen to me, a guy who has been in a similar situation to you who is currently in a relationship.

 

I realize one of the major reasons for coming back to this message board is to watch you succeed. You seem like a good dude and a sweet woman will dissolve a lot of the bitterness that has built up inside of you.

[somedude81]

Either I f-ed up or women are shallow. And if all women are shallow, thinking I'm not good looking enough, then I might as well quit. But with the belief that I screwed up, it means that I have a chance as long as I don't make the same mistakes.

 

I know that women can't read my mind, that's why I think it's crap that all these posters are trying to convince me that they can. Thanks for being real.

 

Just getting confidence isn't enough but it is important. My game needs a little changing. I've learned some new things that I need to try out.

[Lonely Ronin]

Either I f-ed up or women are shallow. And if all women are shallow, thinking I'm not good looking enough, then I might as well quit. But with the belief that I screwed up, it means that I have a chance as long as I don't make the same mistakes.

 

It sounds like your mistake is not listening...

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t277612/

So after a bit of small talk yesterday, we got to the heart of the matter that I want to date her, but she just doesn't want to date at all.

 

It sounds like D told you pretty early on that she wasn't interested in dating, and that she didn't want to date anyone, not just you. So am I correct in my assumption that you spent months being friends with her, with the hope that she would change her mind, and date you?

 

Without reading ever post you have made about D, or having you write a multiple page essay about your relationship with her, I'm going to assume it went something like this.

 

1. you meet her, and got to know her a little through a mutual friend, or a class or something.

2. you talked and she made the statement about not wanting to date anyone, and you replied with either words or actions that said i'm ok with being friends.

3. you carried on as friends, but in your mind, you where working to convince her to date you.

4. over time, she started seeing hints through your interactions that you wanted to be more than friends.

5. at some point she either said something to you, or became more distant, to try and indirectly tell you that she didn't want to date, but was ok with being friends.

6. you backed off for a little bit, but eventually started perusing again.

7. She got fed up with the fact that you wanted to be more than friends, even thought she told you she didn't, and cut you out of her life.

 

I know that women can't read my mind, that's why I think it's crap that all these posters are trying to convince me that they can. Thanks for being real.

 

if the above is even close to the correct plot, This is why several people have told you to just be who you are. Be up front about who you are, and what your looking for. If your type is a large breasted nerdy woman into salsa and video games then only go after those type of women. When you learn one isn't interested (and it doesn't matter what the damn reason is) move on to the next woman.

 

so to reiterate the obvious, of course people can't read you mind. But you can't hide who you are, you are eventually going to show a woman through your actions/words who you are, and what really want.

[Teknoe]

you can't hide who you are, you are eventually going to show a woman through your actions/words who you are, and what really want.

 

 

This is true, particularly over time. Anyone can fool anyone for a time or two, even maybe a small handful of meetings. But over the long run, you can't fool someone. And SD knew D for 2 years.

 

SD, I know you're hurting. A lot of us are hurting. And hurting people hurt people. You know which kind of hurting people, specifically? Those who ignore the issues and deny everything that is "not positive."

 

You have a habit of asking the same type of ?'s on LS over and over. You also have a habit of constantly trying to defend yourself, using phrase like "You sure assume a lot about me" or "I definitely don't do ____." It seems like you're trying to convince yourself more than you are other posters.

 

It's a defense mechanism. Everyone has theirs. You avoid the core issues by bringing up ?'s and not carrying out potential solutions given to your ?'s (which are the same tips because they have proved to work universally... i.e. finding real life friends, finding a support group, etc.)

 

You constantly play this ask ?'s game and then you deny other posters who remotely "challenge" you to improve.

 

Let's just call it what it is. It's your MO, it's your defense mechanism.

 

There are some deep rooted issues with you.

 

But there are with most everyone.

 

The problem is, when a person completely ignores it, refusing to see their shortcomings.

 

You pin much of it on lack of height, because subconsciously you know you can't change your height. But blaming it gives you an outlet to blame "something out of your power."

 

I wish I could say you'd receive this post in the right spirit, but I already know you're in that defensive mode "LOL no" or "Not even close" or "What psycho babble" or "You don't even know me."

 

You can say whatever you want, but the bottom line is, you're only hurting yourself the longer you keep playing this "game" with yourself.

 

Learning how to talk to women isn't the MAIN issue here. You need a good therapist and a safe, healthy support group who can help you along life's journey. No matter what you say, you cannot do this ALONE.

 

But, don't listen to me. What do I know, right? I don't know you, right?

We'll see how things are going for you a year from now if you keep avoiding the real issues and play this same old "song and dance" with LoveShack. (Again, not picking on you as I'd be the happiest LS poster here to hear of actual self-improvement on your part)

[somedude81]

It sounds like your mistake is not listening...

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t277612/

 

 

It sounds like D told you pretty early on that she wasn't interested in dating, and that she didn't want to date anyone, not just you. So am I correct in my assumption that you spent months being friends with her, with the hope that she would change her mind, and date you?

Spent months?

 

I met her two years ago, late Jan 2010

 

We were buddies in class for about three weeks. We started getting lunch together and walking around campus, visiting the Japanese garden. Then I asked her out on a real date. After that happened in March she told me she didn't want to date anybody and offered me friendship. I said no thanks and we stopped talking. I met somebody in June and had a few dates with her then she did the fade. I was over D.

 

School starts in September and guess who is in one of my classes. It was only a matter of days till me and D hung out like we did before but now it was more often. I asked her out again in mid October and she told me that her answer hadn't changed since last time. Though this time we stayed friends and she started coming over my apartment to hang out. When the semester ended in December we had a little falling out and she told me that she felt I was still trying to date her. (No sh*t really?) We stopped talking.

 

Next semester she's not in any of my classes. I can finally get over her. Then her dorm-mate approaches me in a class wanting to study together. We become friends, she's gay so I don't hit on her. Some time in March we're studying in the dorm and of course D comes in. Right away I fall for her again. Couple of days later I call her up and we're hanging out again like normal. I'm also pursuing a few other girls in the meantime. Near the end of the semester in May I get rejected by four different girls. Then D and I have that talk that was linked. But we don't stop hanging out.

 

Over the summer we start hanging out off-campus. I go to her house a couple of times, she goes to my place, we go to the mall, the beach, the arcade, the aquarium. I fall for her super hard in June. September school starts again and she takes a full load and doesn't have a lot of time to hang out and I see her only about once every two weeks. We have that fateful day in November and that was it.

 

From October 2010 on, she knew that I was into her and I never let her forget. I was hoping that she would eventually fall for me and at some times it seemed like it was happening, but of course things didn't turn out that way.

 

I'm never going to do that again.

[xxoo]

So she was honest and consistent from the beginning. She didn't lead you on or anything. She liked your company, but that was all it would ever be.

 

The only way you necessarily "screwed up" with D was that you believed you could change her mind.

 

It doesn't mean she is shallow, or that all women are shallow.

 

It might be interesting to contact D at some point, and ask her insights into you, and your interactions with women. She knows you. She could give you some valuable reflection, if you could have that kind of conversation.

[somedude81]

I know she didn't lead me on. She was also very careful to not do things that suggested she was and she would never let me pay for anything. Always dutch.

 

I don't think I screwed up for thinking I could change her mind. I was stupid, had hope and just really liked her. A fool in love. We both liked each others company and were too weak to end it until she finally found the courage to do.

 

I've tried to contact D since then but she ignores me, not responding to text or email. For some reason I think she's really mad at me and I have no idea why.

[Lonely Ronin]

I've tried to contact D since then but she ignores me, not responding to text or email. For some reason I think she's really mad at me and I have no idea why.

 

I would say she is mad, because you couldn't just be her friend.

[jobaba]

Either I f-ed up or women are shallow. And if all women are shallow, thinking I'm not good looking enough, then I might as well quit. But with the belief that I screwed up, it means that I have a chance as long as I don't make the same mistakes.

 

I was at Walmart (of all places) looking at Valentines Day cards the other day and I saw a whole bunch that said something to the effect of, "The moment I laid eyes on you", or "I knew from first sight", etc. And I was thinking to myself, "Hmmm. That's never happened to me. It happens to most people I guess."

 

If you're not one of those guys that a woman will be 'into' from the start you have to find ones that a) will give you a chance otherwise, or b) don't care anything about looks. That's where you're dating pool should come from ... and it's a shallow pool so you've got to be aggressive.

 

Don't feel bad. I'm sure you're not hideous. It's just the way it is. I have a number of male friends who have never been called hot or cute (in that way) or had a woman hit on them or express clear interest. It sucks, I know. Accept that, and don't linger trying to push your personality on women. Find the rare gems that I mentioned in the 2nd paragraph.

[Teknoe]

We both liked each others company

 

 

You wrote once that she told you "We don't have much in common."

That doesn't sound like someone who "enjoyed your company."

 

A big issue you have is you cannot see reality for reality.

Again I'm not trying to attack you, only to help you see. I know, because in our own situations we can be damn blind at times.

 

 

were too weak to end it until she finally found the courage to do.

 

She was a 21 year old puppy who had NO idea how to enforce boundaries. It lasted as long as it did (2 years) only because she was inexperienced. She didn't know how to end it and by the end was looking for any small reason to cut you off.

 

 

I've tried to contact D since then but she ignores me, not responding to text or email. For some reason I think she's really mad at me and I have no idea why.

 

Again, you have difficulty seeing reality for reality. This concerns me. You have no idea why she won't respond to you? That's not a good sign. It tells me you REALLY did a good job at running her off. You became too much to handle. Too clingy (unanswered texts, emails, etc.), too desperate... sorry to say this but if we asked D to describe you, one word that might come up would be "creepy."

 

We told you to ask her about you when you were friends.

 

You didn't.

 

But now you want to (when there's no chance of her responding).

 

Isn't that ironic?

 

Why do we do what we don't want to do?

 

Defense mechanism...

 

We all see this coming SD, that's why we encouraged you to ask her about female insights since she knew you in real life. You never really took that opportunity.

 

I don't know why you can't see that you can't see.

[jobaba]

You wrote once that she told you "We don't have much in common."

That doesn't sound like someone who "enjoyed your company."

 

A big issue you have is you cannot see reality for reality.

Again I'm not trying to attack you, only to help you see. I know, because in our own situations we can be damn blind at times.

 

Oh. So a woman has to have complete common ground with a man before she can like him and enter into anything romantic with him?

 

Methinks not. Read the endless posts of women on this forum who say they know they will date/sleep with a man or not a few moments after they meet him.

 

I don't understand why you guys are picking on him. It's so unfair. There's so many women (and men) on this message board who are way pickier with their physical standards and way more emotional with the way they pick their mates than SD. He's only being tarred and feathered because he's unsuccessful.

[FitChick]

Shouldn't private conversations be continued via PM rather than hijacking the thread?

[somedude81]

Guys I'm done talking about her.

 

There isn't anything I can gain from continuing this discussion.

 

I know I need to get over her.

 

Because I still have feelings for her, I jump on any chance I can to talk about her. But it is just making things harder.

[Teknoe]

I know I need to get over her.

 

1. Yes you do.

 

2. However, you CANNOT DO THIS ALONE. Either:

 

a). give therapy another shot

or

b). find a REAL LIFE support group

 

We get hurt in relationships, and we find healing in relationships.

 

YOU CANNOT DO THIS ALONE (and no, an "online community" doesn't substitute effectively for a real life face-to-face heart-to-heart group)

[zengirl]

Either I f-ed up or women are shallow. And if all women are shallow, thinking I'm not good looking enough, then I might as well quit. But with the belief that I screwed up, it means that I have a chance as long as I don't make the same mistakes.

 

I know that women can't read my mind, that's why I think it's crap that all these posters are trying to convince me that they can. Thanks for being real.

 

Just getting confidence isn't enough but it is important. My game needs a little changing. I've learned some new things that I need to try out.

 

No one has said women can 'read minds.' But people have intuition -- some people have stronger intuition than others. I would say that people who are less superficial/shallow generally have pretty good intuition in terms of spotting superficiality IME (not all do, but most).

 

Women ARE superficial. (Well, everyone's superficial to some degree.) Some women are very superficial, and some women are not so superficial. Women who are not so superficial are generally (not always, but most of the time) not going to put up with a man who is superficial, whether she's super-hot or not. And ESPECIALLY if she's super hot and not superficial, she's going to be pretty aware of superficiality and avoid men who have it in the extreme (as several posters have noticed you do). That was the whole thing Elswyth was originally trying to say.

 

However, none of that advice would've gotten you D. She wasn't ever into dating you, and she wouldn't ever be. But it may have gotten you more success with other women.