One issue with making a man wait for sex

[misssmartypants]

That's a different experiment than the one I proposed. Maybe it's more fitting, maybe not. Explain it better and I'll run it through my brain.

 

I don't mean to pick on you silvermercy, but try mine. You're ready to move to a full on romantic sexual relationship, but he's not sure yet. How do you feel?

 

Maybe a little bummed out. I'd probably tell him I wanted to move the relationship along and try to communicate about the whole thing.

 

If I care about someone I can wait until they are ready.

[phineas]

No, my view (and that of the majority of women) is not skewed. Your perception of ALL women who want to wait IS skewed though, and that is due to your own bad experiences.

 

Did I say ALL women? No I did not.

I said my personal experiance with women. this does not equate to all because I havn't dated all.

 

So please stop putting words in my mouth. Especially words that speak in extreme's.

 

 

I can tell the difference but that takes TIME. As is the case with most women. (What can I say... Blame those players, they are multiplying by the minute. If those people did not exist, in an ideal world, women would have sex earlier fearing no consequences).

 

Umm, many women DO have sex without fearing consequences. I've dated them also. There is one in this thread telling us this and most of the "make him wait" women are very nonplussed with her. I find it humorous.

 

So, sex without intimacy? Nope! Not for me (and, again, for the majority of women). Because it just doesn't work for us. Those who can are the exception. Same applies to the women who "punish" men by withholding sex. They are exceptions but you keep stumbling upon them somehow. But, of course, that's for you to figure out the why and how.

 

define intimacy.

Intimacy to me is a women unloading their emotional baggage, daily drama with friends, work, personal problem's, & cuddling.

 

Where did I claim a woman withholding sex = "punishment" Never did.

What i've said is a woman wishing to withhold sex = intimacy without sex = not the man for her & I wish her all the best in finding him but she isn't compatible with me & I resent the narrow minded attitude that a man who won't wait around for sex is just looking for sex because that simply isn't the reality at all and just sounds like lame justifications.

 

A woman who wishes to engage in what I consider intimacy without sex is a waste of my time.

 

I have dated women that do not engage in intimacy until we are having sex & i'll date them for much longer periods without sex because their showing me through action's that they genuinely want to get to know me & in fact with women like this neither of us even went beyond a quick peck on the check or a hug until sex was on the horizon.

[silvermercy]

That's a different experiment than the one I proposed. Maybe it's more fitting, maybe not. Explain it better and I'll run it through my brain.

 

I don't mean to pick on you silvermercy, but try mine. You're ready to move to a full on romantic sexual relationship, but he's not sure yet. How do you feel?

I thought it'd be more fitting because all this time the main focus is on the woman requiring emotional intimacy from the man in order to have sex with him. (Hence, this waiting time). The corresponding reverse would be the man requiring emotional intimacy in order for him to have sex with her.

 

But to answer your own question I think I'd be ok with it. Why? Because I'm simply female. LOL Of course there are other females who would think he's not interested in them but that's because of the conscious and subconscious messages these women receive about men: that men in general are being very aggressive when it comes to sex pursuing. If these messages did not exist, then most women would be ok with waiting. (But the parameter for this situation to exist, would be in a world with total lack of such sub- conscious messages).

 

 

@ joystickd: I'm sorry this had to happen to you, but you have to understand what matters is the end result. A player is a player regardless how this came about. This is extreme, but can you feel sorry for a rapist even though he has all the conditions met to feel sorry for him (for example he was horribly abused as a child)? He could have turned his messed up life around just like other similarly abused children but for various reason he didn't. (I know this is extreme but it's to make a point.)

[phineas]

If you can tell the difference between an 'attention whore' (as you so delightfully put it) and a woman who really wants you, before sex is even on the table, then what is your issue with waiting for sex?

 

If you know she's really into you from the 1st or 2nd date, and by your definition she is therefore clearly not an 'attention whore', you've surely got nothing to lose by giving her time until she feels ready - unless, of course, your number one priority is sex?

 

err, because a woman REALLY into me doesn't want to wait for sex.

 

and bravo on throwing out the tired old "men just want sex" lop-sided excuse. Good on you.

[Untouchable_Fire]

That's a different experiment than the one I proposed. Maybe it's more fitting, maybe not. Explain it better and I'll run it through my brain.

I don't mean to pick on you silvermercy, but try mine. You're ready to move to a full on romantic sexual relationship, but he's not sure yet. How do you feel?

 

I think the women were unanimous in favor of dumping when ES proclaimed that her on again off again BF wasn't ready for marriage.

[silvermercy]

@ phineas: I clearly remember from other threads what you had said and your generalizations, but nevermind... can't write an essay here.

[phineas]

@ phineas: I clearly remember from other threads what you had said and your generalizations, but nevermind... can't write an essay here.

 

White flag accepted. :lmao:

[joystickd]

I thought it'd be more fitting because all this time the main focus is on the woman requiring emotional intimacy from the man in order to have sex with him. (Hence, this waiting time). The corresponding reverse would be the man requiring emotional intimacy in order for him to have sex with her.

 

But to answer your own question I think I'd be ok with it. Why? Because I'm simply female. LOL Of course there are other females who would think he's not interested in them but that's because of the conscious and subconscious messages these women receive about men: that men in general are being very aggressive when it comes to sex pursuing. If these messages did not exist, then most women would be ok with waiting. (But the parameter for this situation to exist, would be in a world with total lack of such sub- conscious messages).

 

 

@ joystickd: I'm sorry this had to happen to you, but you have to understand what matters is the end result. A player is a player regardless how this came about. This is extreme, but can you feel sorry for a rapist even though he has all the conditions met to feel sorry for him (for example he was horribly abused as a child)? He could have turned his messed up life around just like other similarly abused children but for various reason he didn't. (I know this is extreme but it's to make a point.)

no rapist wouldnt count here. I did what i could to protect myself from getting hurt. A rapist isnt protecting themselves so use another analogy.

[silvermercy]

err, because a woman REALLY into me doesn't want to wait for sex.

 

and bravo on throwing out the tired old "men just want sex" lop-sided excuse. Good on you.

So all the other men who can wait for their female partners are not really into them? Shall we notify them that their relationships/marriages are a lie? lol

Also, how come this only happens with you?

[sweetjasmine]

Knowing someone takes time. Stating boundaries takes maturity. Respecting the boundaries of someone you claim to care for takes honor. If the man I'm interested cant show patience, honor, and maturity he isn't worth risking disease, heart break, and pregnancy.

 

This is not a "victim" mentality. This is me valuing myself. I'd rather be alone than be with an impatient, immature, dishonorable man.

 

I agree. This all takes time. I don't jump into emotional intimacy or any other kind of intimacy head first without looking, so why is it an issue if I don't want to jump into physical intimacy right away either? How is that "sad" or "attention whoring"?

 

If I've only known a man for two weeks, I'm not going to cook a five-course dinner from scratch for him, talk about my childhood and upbringing, discuss my deepest fears and ambitions, introduce my family to him, buy him an expensive gift, or sleep with him. I barely know the man, and I don't immediately become intimate with somebody unless I know them well and trust them.

 

I don't share my life and body with people at the drop of a hat. What people do and don't share is their own business, and the pace at which they open up to another person is their own personal preference. I happened to meet somebody who felt the same way I do, and we're doing fine. What's the big deal if people disagree or think/act differently? Move on and find somebody who's actually compatible.

[LittleTiger]

You're ready to move to a full on romantic sexual relationship, but he's not sure yet. How do you feel?

 

Surely this isn't the correct analogy - men want sex asap (on a first date if possible) - they don't want a full on romantic sexual relationship, they just want sex!

 

What you mean is imagine you (the woman) is ready for sex (before emotional intimacy) and he's not sure yet - then how do you feel?

 

For me, it would depend on what I was after. If I just wanted sex I'd move on to someone else, if I thought the guy might be a potential long term mate, I would wait.

 

So I think it works the same in either direction.

[silvermercy]

no rapist wouldnt count here. I did what i could to protect myself from getting hurt. A rapist isnt protecting themselves so use another analogy.

I think it counts even as an extreme example, but regardless of examples, then you have issues that only a counselor/therapist could help with. And until you solve them it's not fair or unloading them onto other innocent unsuspecting women.

 

 

@ phineas Great, with a few more colorful ones you can dress as a ski slope next Halloween!

[zengirl]

 

Thought experiment: Switch up genders. She's ready, he's not.

 

How does that make you feel if you're the woman? How do you feel if you're the man?

 

I can do this, and it's not hypothetical.

 

My first BF (hs sweetheart) and I never had sex because he wanted to wait until marriage, based on his religion. We actually were engaged, but he passed away beforehand. Granted, I was a virgin then, and I wouldn't have waited for marriage today, but I had no issue with it at the time, even though I was absolutely ready for sex. He was not. No worries---I loved him, and I respected his values.

 

After college, I dated a man who never has sex unless he is in love. Thus, I was ready long before him as well (these two gentlemen were not consecutive, so I was no longer a virgin). I had no problem waiting and respecting his ideals and values. We fell in love, and then had sex after that. We dated for awhile and even lived together. It was one of the defining relationships of my life, and the sex was great.

 

I never had to tell my hubby no to sex. He didn't try anything until we were already a couple and in love---he did basically know my value system on relationships and such, but a lot of that was him listening well and reading between the lines; we never discussed us having sex specifically. In fact, I've rarely -- except for the college BF, who was a bit of a jerk -- had a guy press for sex before he's shown he's extremely committed to the pairing. But those are the guys I dated. The guys who seem to be going after fast sex knew I wasn't for them, and I knew they weren't for me. To each their own.

[LittleTiger]

err, because a woman REALLY into me doesn't want to wait for sex.

 

and bravo on throwing out the tired old "men just want sex" lop-sided excuse. Good on you.

 

Firstly I never said anything about men just wanting sex - it's not something I believe so not sure where you got that from.

 

Secondly - if you believe that a woman who's really into you doesn't want to wait for sex then the joke is really on you.

 

I'll bet you've missed on some potentially great relationships with that attitude - what a shame!

[phineas]

So all the other men who can wait for their female partners are not really into them? Shall we notify them that their relationships/marriages are a lie? lol

Also, how come this only happens with you?

 

Again, tell me where I said "all". You keep putting one-sided straw-man arguments into my mouth and I don't know why.

 

You seem to have recall of MY posts on the forum, how is it you can't seem to recall the many other posts by men on this forum & even in this thread saying the exact same thing I am saying?

 

Or even the posts all over the forum where people claim they slept with their current wives within a month of dateing?

 

Should we now notify those women their husbands arn't really all that into them? (see what I did thar?)

 

 

I'm going out on a limb here, but I suspect you are willingly ignoring any information that just doesn't jive with your one-sided opinion.

 

But, this is just a stab in the dark.

[joystickd]

I have no problem with waiting but i need to know your reasons and intentions for why. The thing is though if a woman is attracted to you enough she is not going to come up with some waiting crap or if she is she is going to act like it so she isn't going to be doing all that teasing or make out crap and have you going home with blue balls. I know for me since I have delved in the dark arts of playerdom I wait no longer than a month. Its because we spend so much time getting to know one another. The thing is I say you shouldn't have to wait longer than a month is you are talking to that person all the time. If you do its manipulation on her part or she is more attracted to someone else. Trust me I have banged married women and women with boyfriends and the main thing they do is withhold sex. She has an issue so instead of communicating with him she seeks out someone else. Her withholding sex is a symptom of a bigger issue.

[hydorclops]

Surely this isn't the correct analogy - men want sex asap (on a first date if possible) - they don't want a full on romantic sexual relationship, they just want sex!

 

What you mean is imagine you (the woman) is ready for sex (before emotional intimacy) and he's not sure yet - then how do you feel?

 

For me, it would depend on what I was after. If I just wanted sex I'd move on to someone else, if I thought the guy might be a potential long term mate, I would wait.

 

So I think it works the same in either direction.

 

My idea was that they were both waiting for emotional intimacy to develop and she was feeling it before he was.

 

I'm a man by the way.

 

Also I'd probably not think in terms of emotional intimacy, rather I'd need to really like the woman and have lot's of respect for her as a person, and yes as some have mentioned, that takes time.

 

sweetjasmine, good post.

 

zengirl, stop being so reasonable and wise all the time.

[phineas]

Firstly I never said anything about men just wanting sex - it's not something I believe so not sure where you got that from.

 

yes you did. you insinuated that all I cared about was sex. Do you deny that now?

Just because you put a "?" on the end doesn't make it any less of a statement.

 

Secondly - if you believe that a woman who's really into you doesn't want to wait for sex then the joke is really on you.

 

I guess you missed the post where I also said in this thread that a woman who wants to wait for sex is not compatible with me & I wish her no ill will & the best of luck finding the man for her.

 

I'll bet you've missed on some potentially great relationships with that attitude - what a shame!

 

And i'll bet I missed some potentially great relationships in the past because I was concentrating on the wrong woman & ignored the right one.

 

I don't have to worry about that anymore because sex = exclusive to me these days & any woman who doesn't agree isn't compatible to my dating style. Or an attention whore.

[silvermercy]

Again, tell me where I said "all". You keep putting one-sided straw-man arguments into my mouth and I don't know why.

 

You seem to have recall of MY posts on the forum, how is it you can't seem to recall the many other posts by men on this forum & even in this thread saying the exact same thing I am saying?

 

Or even the posts all over the forum where people claim they slept with their current wives within a month of dateing?

 

Should we now notify those women their husbands arn't really all that into them? (see what I did thar?)

 

 

I'm going out on a limb here, but I suspect you are willingly ignoring any information that just doesn't jive with your one-sided opinion.

 

But, this is just a stab in the dark.

No, I don't have selective memory, thank you. By GENERALISING it's the same as saying ALL. Is there REALLY much of a difference there!? LOL You didn't even get I was saying. Nevermind. I thought we were talking about 1-3 dates rule here. No? (I think you had mentioned that as well in other threads). Not a month. And there are many who wait WAY more than a month. But again I was only responding to your exact post. Also, the men whom you are talking about are on your side of you fence, and by all means not representative of all men.

[joystickd]

I think it counts even as an extreme example, but regardless of examples, then you have issues that only a counselor/therapist could help with. And until you solve them it's not fair or unloading them onto other innocent unsuspecting women.

 

 

@ phineas Great, with a few more colorful ones you can dress as a ski slope next Halloween!

I unload nothing but a good time with these women. I got hurt I talked to a counselor about and it just pissed me off more than it could help. I put that behind me experience behind me. I look back on it and the only reason the events happened the way they happened was because I thought no one else wanted me for a long time. I now know the opposite and that is nothing a counselor could tell me. I am at a great point in my life.

[ThaWholigan]

So all the other men who can wait for their female partners are not really into them? Shall we notify them that their relationships/marriages are a lie? lol

Also, how come this only happens with you?

 

I want to know this too, I'm curious. I know this has happened to other guys and I could point out why, but I don't know with this guy....

[phineas]

No, I don't have selective memory, thank you. By GENERALISING it's the same as saying ALL. Is there REALLY much of a difference there!? LOL You didn't even get I was saying. Nevermind. I thought we were talking about 1-3 dates rule here. No? (I think you had mentioned that as well in other threads). Not a month. And there are many who wait WAY more than a month. But again I was only responding to your exact post. Also, the men whom you are talking about are on your side of you fence, and by all means not representative of all men.

 

when I relay my own personal experience & say it is my personal experience I am not generalizing at all.

I am stating it is MY personal experience.

Not a norm or standard for other's.

Just for me.

I am very careful to state this because some people claim i'm making blanket statement's to win an argument.

 

 

I have never employed sex/date rule on this forum.

Ever.

 

What I have said is I rarely made it past the 3rd date without some kind of sexual activity initiated by the woman & full on sex shortly after.

 

Those that made me wait were just using me as a place holder.

 

not 100% but for the most part.

 

You still didn't answer my very important question.

 

What do you consider intimacy & do you seek it from men you arn't sleeping with?

[silvermercy]

My idea was that they were both waiting for emotional intimacy to develop and she was feeling it before he was.

 

Also I'd probably not think in terms of emotional intimacy, rather I'd need to really like the woman and have lot's of respect for her as a person, and yes as some have mentioned, that takes time.

Hmm... I think for the average woman, emotional intimacy works AFTER (or at the same time) the man has developed his own for her, not before. It's like a prerequisite. LOL That's why it's a bit difficult to imagine the most appropriate equivalent reverse situation. lol But regardless I think it would work with a little patience. (We're talking about reasonable time-frames here for both genders).

 

@ joystickd: That's great progress then! Keep it up!

[silvermercy]

@ phineas: very short answer:

I equate intimacy to safety and trust. They're on the same level for me. No, I don't seek intimacy from men I don't intend to sleep with. I have no interest in them anyway, so why would I pursue a relationship (intimacy, sex or whatever) with them anyway? No need to.

Edited January 16, 2012 by silvermercy

[phineas]

I want to know this too, I'm curious. I know this has happened to other guys and I could point out why, but I don't know with this guy....

 

simple answer, I was a classic beta.

desperate, low opinion of myself, out of shape, too nice, ect.

 

I let them dangle the sex carrot (intimacy without sex)

 

I recognize it was MY fault that they did this.

I let them do this & I can only blame myself.

 

I see it happening to other guys all the time & provide my opinions based on my personal experience.

 

The way I do things now works for me.

It may not work for other's but again all I can offer is my opinion based on personal experience.