One issue with making a man wait for sex

[LittleTiger]

I think phineas and Emilia have exceptional knowledge. It isn't about life experience; it's about dating experience and relationships. A 60 yr old person who doesn't get out much will have less experience than a 40 yr old person who associates with a large variety of people.

 

Well I'm sure you are an expert judge on who has the most knowledge about men, women and relationships.

 

Just so you know - life experience generally involves quite a few relationships, of all types, unless you are a hermit of course.

[musemaj11]

If these guys are wining and dining and buying expensive gifts, how is that free sex?

Women feel so entitled to men spending their money on them that they see it as their right so they dont even notice it let alone appreciate it when its presented to them. They take it for granted the way children take their parents money for granted. Children often feel that their parents are trying to take advantage of them by making them do certain errands for them. They have taken their parents for granted so much that they have forgotten that their parents are providing the foods they eat, the house they live in, and everything else belonging to them that their parents paid for.

Edited January 23, 2012 by musemaj11

[Oxy Moronovich]

Just so you know - life experience generally involves quite a few relationships, of all types, unless you are a hermit of course.

Disagree. There are many, many (the majority, perhaps) people who never get out of their comfort zone. They never deal with people from different walks of life. They are like those people who go on vacations only to the touristy areas and fear getting off the beaten track or trying something foreign (i.e. tourists who fly to Rome and eat at McDonalds).

 

I dunno if I'm explaining this right, but there are a crapload of people who have never interacted with a large number and diverse group of people. They spend time with the same people and routines they know for years and even decades. But they never gain any real experience from socializing with people. That's my point.

 

I think I like phineas and Emilia's post because they put a positive viewpoint on things. They don't look at sex negatively, as if it is something to be taken from someone. I like the viewpoint that sex is an experience for two people as long as it is consenting.

 

Women feel so entitled to men spending their money on them that they see it as their right so they dont even notice it let alone appreciate it when its presented to them. They take it for granted the way children take their parents money for granted. Children often feel that their parents are trying to take advantage of them by making them do certain errands for them. They have taken their parents for granted so much that they have forgotten that their parents are providing the foods they eat, the house they live in, and everything else belonging to them that their parents paid for.

LOL. If this guy wrote a relationship book, it would be a New York Times Bestseller.

[thatone]

so i met this girl for a concert last weekend. we had been talking on the phone for a couple weeks prior. we kissed and what not on friday night, no sex, but wound up sleeping next to each other.

 

saturday afternoon we have sex before leaving for the concert, which she initiated by the way, after some kissing/cuddling at her place again that afternoon.

 

she initiates some contact, i initiate some contact. we pretty much agree on everything so far.

 

do i need to stop calling her? does she need to assume i won't call her and thus stop answering? i'm gonna need an answer pretty soon because we've texted back and forth all day today, and spent the day after having sex for the first time together too, so if i'm gonna un-do us getting along just fine i'm gonna have to do it quick.

 

lemme know!

[phineas]

There is really no need to be rude.

 

I, and other women, have attempted to answer every single one of your questions. Clearly we're not making ourselves understood and, clearly, neither are you!

 

You posted earlier in the thread - "if i'm meeting up with two different women i'm going to go with the one who wants to have sex first because honestly, being a divorced guy at 40 "long term" really doesn't mean all that much to me anymore". Along with the statement that 'sex' is the only thing you can get from a woman that you can't get from your friends and family, I took this to mean that you weren't bothered about having a long term committed relationship. Again, my apologies for the misunderstanding - happens a lot doesn't it? - and it takes two!

 

I have never denied that what you've said about your experiences with women is true - I was just offering a different perspective on why these women might be behaving this way. If you want to call them attention whores, that's up to you, but don't kid yourself that it's any better than a woman calling a man a player if he won't give her some time.

 

Who said anything about a man not jumping through hoops for a woman being a bad guy? Certainly not me! What I said (which you've obviously misunderstood) is that we're all different - if you don't want to wait you don't have to - any more than the woman has to drop her knickers for you within a month. That's the bottom line! Fairly obvious really.

 

Some women might think you're a player for doing so, but why do you care? You're probably no more a player than I am a prude but it matters not in the slightest either way because we're both free to conduct our relationships and sex lives as we choose. People will have their opinions, that's life. If your self-esteem is intact you shouldn't care what anyone else thinks.

 

As far as I'm aware I've answered every single question you asked, although admittedly not in the form "question followed by direct answer" that is just too time consuming for me. Whichever post I 'quote' is just a starting point - my intention was to answer all the questions in one go - I obviously did a very bad job.

 

Actually, this thread has become rather too time consuming and as I'm clearly not explaining things well enough I might as well bow out. I've done my best to explain the side you don't understand but we don't even appear to be speaking the same language and I know when to give up.

 

I will answer one question directly though - the bolded part above. The answer is because you think she's really special - because you've never met anyone quite like her and you think, just possibly, she might be the best thing that ever happened to you. Unfortunately, since you're obviously still 'smarting' over something a girl did to you 20 years ago, I doubt you'll ever allow yourself to feel that way about anyone.

 

Rude? i'm being civil

Fact is in one post you said women don't have ONS then make relationship guys wait & in another thread you explained why a woman has a ONS & makes relationship guy wait.

 

I'm responding to the bolded.

I got news for you, we live in a world where everyone is different & unique.

"special" doesn't come into play.

Sorry but people are pretty much interchangeable.

 

You date someone "special" it ends then you what? date someone else "special"? They can't be all that special if there are two of them now can they?

 

also the whole unique snowflake syndrome women have is one of the major problems guys have with dating these days. No woman is special & every single one can easily be replaced.

 

Please don't play armchair head shrink with me & try to apply some crap a chick did to me 20yrs for how I am today.

 

You can't even piece together what i'm saying in this thread but you want to evaluate me? LOL!

 

also, I still have yet to see you even remotely acknowledge that women lead men on for attention the same way men lead women on for sex.

 

You have danced around this issue the whole thread.

You just plainly refuse to admit it's a reality.

[phineas]

The two are not really related, and I even disagree with posters who've said this is a man/woman difference. I know plenty of guys who vent, too. Most people who vent do it in front of many people who they will never be naked with, and almost everyone has vented to a friend at least once in their life. Granted, venting about Daddy issues or ex-BFs is probably a sign she doesn't see you as more than a friend, and there are certain things I'd vent about commonly (work, etc) and certain things I'd only ever share with someone closer --- not really related to nudity though --- but you mentioned venting about work in your first post, which is something basically every human being has done at one point or another, and usually not just to their SOs. Single people vent about work too!

 

I don't vent to women that i'm not in a relationship with. period. I prefer to spend my time being positive & having fun. Listening to woman chirp about the same stuff over & over again before we are actually a couple is emotional tampon area. I don't want to deal with it until she is ready to show me she wants to be with me. Go find a shrink for Christ sakes & to be honest if she's like that early on I usually tell them it isn't going to work out.

 

This sounds like valuing the sex to me. To me: You're saying you spend time with her, despite the fact that you'd rather be doing other things, so that you can eventually have sex. Not sure if that was your intent, but that's what I read.

 

Let me clarify, because nobody seems to be paying attention when I say this.

EVERY woman that i've spent time with that did not sleep with me after a month (I give them a month) & instead gave me lame excuses used the promise of future sex to keep me around then dropped me & literally had sex with someone else or they were sleeping with some guy who wouldn't commit the whole time & were just using me as a place holder.

 

so right now, I got better things to do then spend my time & energy on a woman that doesn't want to sleep with me after a month.

 

Sex = genuine interest

lack of sex = attention whore or incompatibility. Like I said I suppose there truly are women out there that wait to have sex with EVERY guy & don't have a different set of rules for different guys. I've yet to go on a date with one.

I've met those who claimed this, but they were lying.

 

 

I'm not in disagreement that, eventually, a romantic relationship should include sex. And that fairly early on, it should include some signs of affection (not necessarily sexual) and attraction. But I would assume the reason you'd spent time with said woman would be that she was amazing and that spending time with her made you happy. Spending time with someone to get something else out of it -- whether it's sex down the road or a free dinner or whatever -- is always a bit silly IMO.

 

Oh, i've spent months & months & months of sex free fun "taking it slow" with a woman only to have her sleep with someone else she just met.

 

I've spent a few weeks with someone having a blast then going home & having more "fun".

 

I know which I prefer. I don't waste my time dating women i don't like or don't have fun with because their hot.

 

Finding someone I enjoy spending time with really isn't all the difficult because the world is full of fun people. Whether their a POS or not is another matter.

 

At any rate, many, many people can tell you that sex does NOT define a relationship. After all, many people have hopped out of bed after rolling around with someone and not found themselves in a relationship. So, saying it "defines" the relationship is just incorrect.

 

If the woman is actively seeking my time & attention & expects me to answer to her then yes sex does define the relationship. If she isn't demanding my time or keeping tabs on me then I let her decide when she wants to do it, but i'm not going to consider us exclusive until it happens.

 

In my experience, the one's who want to lock me down & treat them like GF's without having sex with me are the ones who think they have me wrapped around their finger's & are either sleeping with someone else or planning to & dropping me.

 

At any rate, that's nothing against you. I think a lot of the argument you're having with LT is coming down to phrasing and lack of communication. People can date how they want, and others can judge as they like, and the circle goes round and round.

 

My problem with LT & most of the other women in this thread is they have this "if a man won't wait months & months, he just wants sex" attitude & they refuse to admit that women do in fact lead men on or make some men wait longer than others.

If they did this then they would have to acknowledge that men have a legitimate reason not to wait around for sex.

Just as legitimate a reason for women not to have sex quickly.

OMG What a fricken nightmare! LOL!

 

Instead they say "nobody made the guy date her" but turn around and say "he just want's sex" or accuse him of being a player if he does walk.

 

Or they say "both men and women use people" right after they'd spent the thread only talking about men using women.

 

The men in this thread have zero problem admitting men use women for sex but most of the women avoid any type of talk about women using men as place holders.

 

You can't even get a woman to even respond to the posed question of how they'd feel if their new BF spent money on all his past GF's but not her.

If he say took past GF's to tropical vacations then said "i'm not doing that any more" even though his financials didn't change. No woman wants to touch it because she'd then have to admit she'd feel slighted & therefore have admit men would feel slighted about women & sex.

 

They can't keep tossing out their "he might be a player excuse"

 

 

 

Right. Most of the time when a woman slows herself down, it's because either (a) her priorities have changed, or (b) she's been hurt and realizes she needs to change to protect herself. Many naive women will sleep with any man they like, sometimes thinking it means a relationship, and when they learn it doesn't, they change. Others might indulge in a ONS with a guy they can keep themselves from getting attached to, but be slower when they actually are dating for a relationship and opening their hearts (men sometimes do this too!) because sex is different in those two instances, in terms of what it means and how it has the potential to hurt. Others may go through a phase where they don't want a relationship but aren't going to forego sex for years and not think about it so much and then realize their priorities have changed and they're looking for something more real (again, men and women!), as your friend did. **** happens, people change. That's a natural response to life.

 

Except, and people keep missing this point, that has never been the case when it came to the women i've dated that wanted to "take it slow" Because they were either sleeping with an ex or wound up jumping into bed with a guy they just met. I'm not saying these women don't exist, i'm saying their few & far between & honestly, if you were the type to sleep with guys quickly, do you really think telling the current guy your with that you used to give it up easily before & you won't do that anymore doesn't make it seem like he is being punished for her mistakes? And if she really is that afraid of getting hurt then she really should reconsider dating until she is in a better place. But again, with the women i've dated is was all BS & for my friends, it was all BS also because those chicks hopped into bed with other guys also very quickly.

 

LT made several other good points about how sexual reputation works for women, as well as how emotional connection works for women. I will say, I think men also connect emotionally during sex in many cases---if they actually like the girl---and that some women seem to be able to avoid this, but only if they don't really dig the guy.

 

Men do connect emotionally during sex I do but only if the woman is connecting the same.

 

However, next to being cheated on, nothing hurts more for a man to connect to a woman emotionally without sex only to have her jump into bed with some guy she barely knew or someone she was just FWB with.

 

And men who have been through this just don't wait around because they may get attached & hurt themselves.

 

But women just don't want to accept that possibility either as a legitimate reason as to why men won't wait around.

[veggirl]

I got news for you, we live in a world where everyone is different & unique.

"special" doesn't come into play.

Sorry but people are pretty much interchangeable.

 

You date someone "special" it ends then you what? date someone else "special"? They can't be all that special if there are two of them now can they?

 

.

 

Agreed so much with the above.

 

How special can someone be if they are replaced 6 mos later by the next special guy/gal?

 

If they're "special" but end up cheating on you or breaking your heart, do you regret the sex? Cause in the end they were an a$shole, how special is that?!

[thatone]

Let me clarify, because nobody seems to be paying attention when I say this.

EVERY woman that i've spent time with that did not sleep with me after a month (I give them a month) & instead gave me lame excuses used the promise of future sex to keep me around then dropped me & literally had sex with someone else or they were sleeping with some guy who wouldn't commit the whole time & were just using me as a place holder.

 

Sex = genuine interest

lack of sex = attention whore or incompatibility. Like I said I suppose there truly are women out there that wait to have sex with EVERY guy & don't have a different set of rules for different guys. I've yet to go on a date with one.

I've met those who claimed this, but they were lying.

 

Finding someone I enjoy spending time with really isn't all the difficult because the world is full of fun people. Whether their a POS or not is another matter.

 

In my experience, the one's who want to lock me down & treat them like GF's without having sex with me are the ones who think they have me wrapped around their finger's & are either sleeping with someone else or planning to & dropping me.

 

Except, and people keep missing this point, that has never been the case when it came to the women i've dated that wanted to "take it slow" Because they were either sleeping with an ex or wound up jumping into bed with a guy they just met.

 

But women just don't want to accept that possibility either as a legitimate reason as to why men won't wait around.

 

but all of the above shatters their "if every woman is a princess I AM A PRINCESS" fuzzy logic implanted by their upbringing and social influences.

 

and furthermore, just as no woman has ever 'wanted to wait' and then changed her mind later, identical to your experience, with me, not a one has ever taken any sort of responsibility for their own action before sex either. to emphasize, make sure it sinks in....NOT ONE, in 35 years. every one has attempted to blame me in some way for their own lying indifference.

 

now, on the other hand, give those same women two orgasms and they'll be apologizing for sh*t they DIDN'T do for you, and worrying herself senseless that she will somehow upset you.

 

this isn't the 1950s, ladies. women aren't some mystery that men pine over and struggle to understand. we know how attraction works too. and collective lying/misdirection isn't going to turn the clock back.

 

if the type of women we're talking about can't control their emotions/feelings/insecurity they're not going to have much luck finding those long term relationships they want with the men they want.

 

and to answer the response those women so often give for themselves, "but i'll feel bad if it doesn't work out", deal with it. relationships are between you and another person, not you and your own feelings, it isn't all about you.

Edited January 24, 2012 by thatone

[Titania22]

 

I'm responding to the bolded.

I got news for you, we live in a world where everyone is different & unique.

"special" doesn't come into play.

Sorry but people are pretty much interchangeable.

 

 

I just wanted to respond to the idea of people being special or interchangable.

 

As a disclaimer I want to say that my comments are about people in general and not specifically dating. They are also just how things are to me, not saying that other opinions on the subject are wrong.

 

For me what makes someone special is that my life is improved just because they are a part of it. It's also people that make me feel that the world is a better place because they exist in it. For me these people are rare, and they are definately not replaceable.

 

Point of fact is that my friend Malcolm was one of these people, and it he was so interchangeable why haven't I come across a man to replace him since he died. The fact is I never have met another man like him. Other people that are special to me are my best girlfriend and my daughter.

 

I don't assume that I myself am special, but I would hope that someone could see me as such. I hope that someone would feel that their life was improved just by knowing me, and that this world is a slightly better place because I am in it.

[phineas]

I just wanted to respond to the idea of people being special or interchangable.

 

As a disclaimer I want to say that my comments are about people in general and not specifically dating. They are also just how things are to me, not saying that other opinions on the subject are wrong.

 

For me what makes someone special is that my life is improved just because they are a part of it. It's also people that make me feel that the world is a better place because they exist in it. For me these people are rare, and they are definately not replaceable.

 

Point of fact is that my friend Malcolm was one of these people, and it he was so interchangeable why haven't I come across a man to replace him since he died. The fact is I never have met another man like him. Other people that are special to me are my best girlfriend and my daughter.

 

I don't assume that I myself am special, but I would hope that someone could see me as such. I hope that someone would feel that their life was improved just by knowing me, and that this world is a slightly better place because I am in it.

 

I am speaking in the context of going on dates with someone. Woman A is no special than woman b & both can be replaced by woman c.

 

I have friends. TRUE friends that have been in my life for yrs that cannot be replaced.

 

someone I met & knew for a month or two?

Yeah, they can easily be replaced.

[misssmartypants]

I am speaking in the context of going on dates with someone. Woman A is no special than woman b & both can be replaced by woman c.

 

I have friends. TRUE friends that have been in my life for yrs that cannot be replaced.

 

someone I met & knew for a month or two?

Yeah, they can easily be replaced.

 

And why would I have sex with you while you felt that way about me? If I were looking for a F-buddy or a friend with benefits arrangement, I could see it, but if I'm looking for a forever relationship, why would I share that part of myself with a man who sees me as replaceable and interchangeable with any other woman?

[veggirl]

And why would I have sex with you while you felt that way about me? If I were looking for a F-buddy or a friend with benefits arrangement, I could see it, but if I'm looking for a forever relationship, why would I share that part of myself with a man who sees me as replaceable and interchangeable with any other woman?

 

So, the next person you have sex with will be your "forever relationship"? Nobody is going to tell you to your face that after only a month or so yeah you are still easily replacable.

 

IMO a healthy person realizes this. But again, I'm not the kinda girl that falls in love after a month or two.

[misssmartypants]

So, the next person you have sex with will be your "forever relationship"? Nobody is going to tell you to your face that after only a month or so yeah you are still easily replacable.

 

IMO a healthy person realizes this. But again, I'm not the kinda girl that falls in love after a month or two.

 

Who said I need a month to have sex? I said that I will not have sex with a man who sees me as easily interchangable with any other woman. If that takes a month, it takes a month, if it takes six, it takes six. Its not MY problem. Its "his".

[Oxy Moronovich]

Who said I need a month to have sex? I said that I will not have sex with a man who sees me as easily interchangable with any other woman. If that takes a month, it takes a month, if it takes six, it takes six. Its not MY problem. Its "his".

And what happens when you wait weeks, finally have sex, only to break up with him months later, and repeat the process several times? That says your way of choosing men is flawed.

[misssmartypants]

And what happens when you wait weeks, finally have sex, only to break up with him months later, and repeat the process several times? That says your way of choosing men is flawed.

 

Yeah, I think you have me confused with someone else. YOur whole premise is flawed anyway.

 

Here's how it goes. I say "hey sweetie, I really like you, maybe even love you. I think we could build a future together." He says "I've been thinking the same thing, you're awesome, lets take the relationship to a more serious place"

 

And then we do just that.

 

There is no inner plan to dump him in a month. Unless maybe we get serious and then realize it wont work after all. Or maybe I misjudged his character and he cheats on me. Or maybe a huge life event hits and the time isn't right. Who knows.

[Oxy Moronovich]

There is no inner plan to dump him in a month. Unless maybe we get serious and then realize it wont work after all. Or maybe I misjudged his character and he cheats on me. Or maybe a huge life event hits and the time isn't right. Who knows.

Well, there you go. That's what so many people here are saying. A woman can easily misjudge a man's character after all those weeks or months of waiting. So your whole reason for waiting is flawed.

[misssmartypants]

Well, there you go. That's what so many people here are saying. A woman can easily misjudge a man's character after all those weeks or months of waiting. So your whole reason for waiting is flawed.

 

So because there are no guarantees I should hop in bed with any man interested and hope that instead of being seen as a dirty slut one will fall madly in love?

 

Yeah, that's totally healthy.

[Titania22]

I just wanted to respond to the idea of people being special or interchangable.

 

As a disclaimer I want to say that my comments are about people in general and not specifically dating. They are also just how things are to me, not saying that other opinions on the subject are wrong.

 

For me what makes someone special is that my life is improved just because they are a part of it. It's also people that make me feel that the world is a better place because they exist in it. For me these people are rare, and they are definately not replaceable.

 

Point of fact is that my friend Malcolm was one of these people, and it he was so interchangeable why haven't I come across a man to replace him since he died. The fact is I never have met another man like him. Other people that are special to me are my best girlfriend and my daughter.

 

I don't assume that I myself am special, but I would hope that someone could see me as such. I hope that someone would feel that their life was improved just by knowing me, and that this world is a slightly better place because I am in it.

 

I would like to make an amendment to my previous post to say, I don't think someone who is special is "perfect" and somehow immune from making mistakes. We are all of us flawed, and we all mess up sometimes.

 

(I know that probably was obvious, but I thought to spell that out.)

[Queen Zenobia]

So because there are no guarantees I should hop in bed with any man interested and hope that instead of being seen as a dirty slut one will fall madly in love?

 

Yeah, that's totally healthy.

 

How about just have sex when you are ready? Whether that's date 2 or date 16. Stop worrying about everything else (whether he's in love or wants to marry you or whatever other nonsense). It's really not that complicated.

[LittleTiger]

I am speaking in the context of going on dates with someone. Woman A is no special than woman b & both can be replaced by woman c.

 

I have friends. TRUE friends that have been in my life for yrs that cannot be replaced.

 

someone I met & knew for a month or two?

Yeah, they can easily be replaced.

 

I think this is one of the saddest things I have ever read, anywhere, from a man speaking about women. It is tragic, to me, that anyone could feel this way about other people - especially people they have chosen to spend time with and presumably would like to know better.

 

Perhaps one day you will meet a woman who stands head and shoulders above everyone else and changes your mind.

 

Personally, if I was currently looking for a committed relationship, I wouldn't even consider dating someone who didn't stand out from the crowd in some significant way - what would be the point?

 

We obviously have a fundamentally different way of viewing the world - which, I suppose, explains why we apparently misunderstand each other's posts.

[Sugarkane]

If I had a dollar for every time a guy said he "wanted a relationship", yet all he really wanted was sex, I would have ALOT of money now. Like in another thread I just described. When I was 19 I went out with a 26 year old co worker. He said he "wanted a relationship", yet dumped me coz I didn't have sex with him on the first date. What's the rush? I was attracted to him, but after that sleazy behaviour I wasn't. I just don't sleep with anyone, unlike alot of people.

I wanted a relationship, not just sex. I wanted to actually get to know this person- what people used to do.

 

The irony is if he had of waited, god forbid- dated me, got to know me and became my bf, I would've done anything for him. But because he couldn't get instant gratification, he got cut. That's where I find men dumb. There's nothing more I can't stand than a liar. In the end that was this guys loss. He passed up something that could've been good.

[somedude81]

I think this is one of the saddest things I have ever read, anywhere, from a man speaking about women. It is tragic, to me, that anyone could feel this way about other people - especially people they have chosen to spend time with and presumably would like to know better.

 

Perhaps one day you will meet a woman who stands head and shoulders above everyone else and changes your mind.

And then she rejects you.

 

It's a huge mistake for a man to let a woman become special in the early stages.

 

All that will do is lead to pain.

[Sugarkane]

And if you rejected someone for not having sex straight away, I'd think why would you be on a dating site [if thats how you met]. Shouldn't you be on a fling/ hook up site instead?

[somedude81]

And if you rejected someone for not having sex straight away, I'd think why would you be on a dating site [if thats how you met]. Shouldn't you be on a fling/ hook up site instead?

Now this post isn't directed at me right? Cause it really doesn't fallow what I wrote.

 

And I'm totally known for rejecting women who don't hop in the sack right away...

[LittleTiger]

Rude? i'm being civil

Fact is in one post you said women don't have ONS then make relationship guys wait & in another thread you explained why a woman has a ONS & makes relationship guy wait.

 

I'm responding to the bolded.

I got news for you, we live in a world where everyone is different & unique.

"special" doesn't come into play.

Sorry but people are pretty much interchangeable.

 

You date someone "special" it ends then you what? date someone else "special"? They can't be all that special if there are two of them now can they?

 

also the whole unique snowflake syndrome women have is one of the major problems guys have with dating these days. No woman is special & every single one can easily be replaced.

 

Please don't play armchair head shrink with me & try to apply some crap a chick did to me 20yrs for how I am today.

 

You can't even piece together what i'm saying in this thread but you want to evaluate me? LOL!

 

also, I still have yet to see you even remotely acknowledge that women lead men on for attention the same way men lead women on for sex.

 

You have danced around this issue the whole thread.

You just plainly refuse to admit it's a reality.

 

Missed this before.

 

No, you were being rude.

 

At the bolded - see my previous post. What a shame you apparently have such a dislike and lack of respect for women as human beings.

 

Yes, finally, we agree on something, people are all different and unique - so how can they possibly be interchangeable???? Are your TRUE friends (no doubt all male) also interchangeable? Of course not - and neither are women.

 

I brought up your dating scenario from 20 years ago because you did - several times I think - that's when your beliefs about women were apparently formed because they don't seem to have changed since then.

 

I can't piece together what you're saying? How about you can't piece together what I'm saying? I'm more than willing to take half the responsibility for our inability to communicate - you, however, are insisting it must be me. Probably because I'm just a woman and I'm apparently worth nothing more than what's between my legs - same as every other woman on the planet!

 

I have neither danced around anything you've said nor refused to acknowledge it. I have stated, several times, that if women have led you on in this way, and you can see no other way of interpreting their behaviour then so be it. If you read my posts carefully, you'll see that I don't actually disagree with what you believe has happened - it happened to you not to me, but, as far as I'm aware, it hasn't happened to either my partner, previous partners or any of my male friends and family who, mostly, have a very high regard for women.

 

I can't understand why any woman would want to a lead a man on for attention but no sex. All of my friends want real relationships, including sex, and I've never met a woman (a fully mature one who is sexually active, that is) who would want the kind of 'relationship' you are talking about. What is there to be gained from pretending to want sex from a man if you don't? It's a new one on me and makes no sense whatsoever.