Can long-time friends be lovers?

[InmannRoshi]

Mine is a cautionary tale...

 

I was best friends with a girl from 19-23 who I tried to be more than friends with. We lived in a co-ed dorm and literally lived next door to each other. We were around each other 24/7 we did everything together ... eat, study, do laundry, grocery shopping, etc. We were accused of practically being a married couple. We would stay up until 4 in the morning talking virtually every night. None of us were technically in any serious relationship at the time. I wasn't really dating and for two years she was sleeping with a jerk grad student who already had a serious g/f back home and was kind of using her for a **** buddy (whole other soap opera in and of itself). Eventually, I came to the conclusion that we were perfect for each other. We were already like an old married couple. I told her I wanted to be more than friends. Initially she said she felt the same way. We dated for few weeks and even slept together a few times, but she eventually said she wanted to back out and just be friends.

 

And here's my advice to you ... don't take it personally if she doesn't want to do it. Because I really pummeled myself over it. It was like "Geez, the girl who knows me better than anyone in the world doesn't want to be with me, I must be pretty damned flawed." And she repeatedly told me that it was nothing to do with me, but that it was just bad timing. I thought since she was my friend, and I knew that she honestly cared about me, that she was just trying to soothe my ego. Eventually, my insecurity caused her to feel guitly and it led to the disolution of our friendship. Looking back on it, she was right. It was a case of bad timing. Because when you're that good of friends, you kind of jump right past all of the casual and lighthearted stuff, and go right into the heavy, relationship stuff. And even though you like someone, sometimes you have to be at the right place in your life to be able to handle that... especially in your early 20's. I have no doubt at another time in our lives we could have been a great couple. She told me that many times, but I refused to believe her.

 

So my advice to you is to go for it. Because its damn hard to find people you feel that strongly for. But whether or not your friendship will survive will probably be determined by your outlook.

 

In my case, I didn't "lose" her friendship because we tried to be lovers. I 'lost" her friendship because I had a really bad atittude when it didn't work.

[ockey53]

Ok, go I found out why she doesn't want to date friends. There was this one guy that she went out for 3 years with after being friends for 1 year. She was 15, he was 16. They had a great relationship until the last days of the 3rd year. He was a senior moving away to college and she was a junior. She went to his senior prom (which was in CA, 3000 miles away...) and he made hotel reservations for that night. They ended up going thru with it with the whole candle bit and everything, but before she could put her pants back on, she was dumped! She didn't talk to him for 3 years after that day... which is totally understandable. The word got back to her family, specifically her dad, and he beat her. Beat her so bad that her friend that lived across the street heard it and called the cops. She was brought to the hospital and was there for 2 weeks for heart complications.

 

So... not only did this guy leave emotional scars, but physical scars. This is why she doesn't want to date friends ever again. She made it her rule. This guy has ruined it for me.

 

Plus, she's really really liking this guy and she can't stop thinking about him.

 

This doesn't look to positive for me......

[ockey53]

She has said this a couple times before but we kinda discussed it today at lunch. If she doesn't get into a graduate program in Boston, she wants to move to Ft. Lauderdale, FL. But get this... she wants me to move with her, not into the same apartment, but the same neighborhood/building kinda thing. And of course, by instinct, I said YES!

 

But now I kinda get to thinkin about it. Does she want me to go because she sees us being together just as friends? or as a couple?? Now we have done crazy (fun) stuff together; like with 5 days notice, pack and go to the bahamas for a week, by ourselves. I told her today, that "I could see myself following you." Meaning if she stays in Boston, so will I... but if she moves to FL, I would too. And she said "I know, I asked you to, and I can't see what I'd do without you." She meant that in a friendship helping back and forth way (Shoulder to cry on, yell at, and hang out with).

 

What do you think?

[ockey53]

I just got back from San Diego on a vacation with my family..... not too fun, but I did get away. I haven't talked to this girl all week, cause she didn't want to take away any time from my vacation. So it will be interesting to see the way she reacts when I see her tonight or tomorrow.

 

During this week, she has broken up with her boyfriend and has now been dating a couple guys. I just wish that I could be one of them.

[d.stevens]

Bro

 

I don't know what to tell you here as I'm in sort of a difficult situation myself lol. I will say this though. I wasted a load of time testing that theory of: If your not looking, you will find one or one will find you. I took a lot of time to get to know myself and do the gym thing etc. (I'm a personal trainer lol) I shun now when I say years passed....and nothing.

 

I decided to chase down some other interests of mine where I knew there'd be a mix of females etc. I did meet a great girl...and we've become friends and do spend a lot of time together, but it's tricky because she appears to be on the tail end of a long term relationship.

 

Were becomming great friends in fact, but don't want to fall too far into the friend thing. She does know how I feel as we've talked about where we both are at the moment. Anyway it's complicated too lol

 

Keep us updated!

[Emdeesea]

Let's examine the evidence here:

 

You have made your feelings known to her and she has turned you down.

 

She SAID that she thinks of you "like a brother." Translation: "I don't want to date you."

 

She told you she doesn't date friends. Translation: "I don't want to date you."

 

She likes hanging out with you, you're fun, you buy her stuff, you treat her nice - so she likes having you around, but she doesn't want to DATE YOU.

 

It DOESN'T MATTER that you've slept in the same bed as her, that you went out of town together, that you do things together, etc. - she TOLD YOU she's not interested. And you following her around like her entourage will not impress her. You should read the article about "Nice Guys" on Heartless-bitches.com.

 

QUIT being a pushover and standing around wasting time hoping she will notice you. SHE TOLD YOU she's not interested. This ISN'T going to happen. And while you're sitting around pining for her, spending money on her, wishing she would look your way, you're missing out on a girl who could REALLY care about you and appreciate what you can offer.

 

GET a grip man! Quit pursuing someone who has made her lack of interest known to you time and time again. She is NOT going to change her mind. Sending flowers, candy, poems will do no good. In fact, it's going to make you look like a doormat. Women don't like doormats.

 

Just give it up. Seriously. You're wasting your time.

[ockey53]

ouch... that hurts...

[Emdeesea]

I'm sorry guy but the truth hurts. This girl is using you for what you've been more than willing to give her without her giving you anything in return, with the exception of her friendship, which she has told you that's ALL she's willing to give you.

 

What did she do when she was single? Did she hunt you out for a date? No. She went out with other guys. What does that tell you?

 

You're not in this alone. We've all been there. The best thing you can do is accept the fact that she's not interested and move on. Even take away your friendship for a while - let her miss you and see what life is going to be like without you unless SHE decides to make a move. Women are attracted to men they respect, not men who will let them walk all over them.

 

You might check out Askmen.com - they have a lot of dating articles for men. I think there are quite a few on "women who just want to be friends." And the advice is NOT to keep sending women flowers and candy when they've turned you down.

 

I hope things turn around for you. I really do. But this girl is more than likely not going to change her mind anytime soon with the way things are going.

 

Good luck.

[emdeesea]

Here's a link to the article I was thinking specifically of...

 

http://www.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith/47_dating_advice.html

[d.stevens]

Excellent article!

 

Cuts through all the crap. Kinda gives light to some other indicators for sure. I've certainly heard the "nice guy" thing a time or two in the past. I always knew it to be the kiss of death. Now I know of others to watch for.

 

Also...the last paragraph is so true!!

 

A time saver for sure! Thanks buddy for the llink.

 

 

ockey53 I tend to agree with what Emdeesea is saying here. Actually, I think your going to have to ask yourself whats more painful, cutting loose of this, or selling yourself short and enduring this for years more?

[emdeesea]

Glad you enjoyed the article.

 

Now here's the kicker. Bet you didn't guess I was a woman.

 

In all of this I feel for the guy. I do. I've gone through the same thing with several guy friends of mine and it sucks to be kicked around. At some point however you have to learn to stand up for yourself and stop taking the BS and not allow yourself to be nicely told that you're not good enough when in fact you ARE.

 

It IS possible to win in this situation - like the article says, but you will risk the friendship. Just last year I was friends with a guy I was really into but he kept giving me the "I just want to be friends," line. So I left. I told him I wasn't looking for Platonic and if I wasn't good enough to date then I wasn't good enough to be friends with. So no more friendship, which upset him greatly.

 

It took him about 90 days to come back around. We've been dating since February.

 

You have to put your foot down to get what you want.

[moimeme]

If she says, "I only want to be friends," it literally means that she has absolutely no intentions to date you, and she has no other nice way of putting it.

 

Bah. Sometimes. But sometimes, women find really great men that they don't want to lose out of their lives, so they say 'let's be friends' on the chance that the guy won't fall and she'll lose him. Better, sometimes, to keep someone as a friend than to not have him at all. And he can always, at any point, suggest she take the friendship further.

 

However, ockey, you have tried that and she has, quite clearly, said 'no'. You're about the third fellow I've seen on here that everybody told to give up on someone who just didn't seem to get it. The other two, as we predicted, came to grief. She will not come around. You have to give up on this one.

[d.stevens]

 

Now here's the kicker. Bet you didn't guess I was a woman.

 

 

I agree you took a strong position that to me came across as a guy. However the thought did cross my mind for a brief moment while reading that article for the reason of...why would a guy with that position be on this board? lol. Overall though, yes your right...figured you were male.

[d.stevens]

Originally posted by moimeme

 

 

Bah. Sometimes. But sometimes, women find really great men that they don't want to lose out of their lives, so they say 'let's be friends' on the chance that the guy won't fall and she'll lose him. Better, sometimes, to keep someone as a friend than to not have him at all. And he can always, at any point, suggest she take the friendship further.

 

 

Yes, perhaps so, but when it comes down to using the friendship to meet their own needs. The other is being taken advantage of. I'd be leary of what you described only so I'd know where to draw the line.

[emdeesea]

"But sometimes, women find really great men that they don't want to lose out of their lives, so they say 'let's be friends' on the chance that the guy won't fall and she'll lose him. Better, sometimes, to keep someone as a friend than to not have him at all. And he can always, at any point, suggest she take the friendship further."

 

Yeah I don't really agree with this either. To me, this is the equivalent of saying "I like you and stuff but I want to see what else is out there. If I can't find someone I like better, THEN I'll think about going out with you. But until then I want to be your pal."

 

If you ran across a $100 bill on the street, would you be "ready" to pick it up? To me, meeting a great guy or girl is similar. You don't hesitate unless you're waiting for the $500 bill.

[d.stevens]

Originally posted by emdeesea

 

 

If you ran across a $100 bill on the street, would you be "ready" to pick it up? To me, meeting a great guy or girl is similar. You don't hesitate unless you're waiting for the $500 bill.

 

We better be ready to pick up that $100 bill... its the highest denomination in circulation today

 

I'll bet you didn't think I'd catch that huh?

 

hehe

[emdeesea]

"We better be ready to pick up that $100 bill... its the highest denomination in circulation today"

 

I'll be darned. I thought they were still making them. Not that anyone has much use for them though, I guess.

 

Learn something new every day.

[moimeme]

I like you and stuff but I want to see what else is out there. If I can't find someone I like better, THEN I'll think about going out with you. But until then I want to be your pal."

 

Nope. Not in the least. At least, not all the time. I've done it and it's been 'I absolutely never want to lose you so I'd rather stick with being friends than take any risks'. Yeah, I'm a chicken

[HoneyGirl]

I am this girl that you so desperately want to date. And Emdeseea is right - it's never going to happen.

 

I have been best friends with a guy for over 3 years. He is such a wonderful person and we click on so many different levels. But sexually? I find the idea repulsive. I let him hug me, massage me, buy me presents... all the while knowing that he is never going to get what he wants. He is not completely unattractive; I just know him so well he feels like a brother. And to be honest, all of the pandering towards me he does is a major turn off.

 

I am quite popular on campus and date around a lot. Although the guys I date tend to be jerks, I am in my 20s and at this stage most girls are looking for the bad boys. He can't understand why I go out with these guys when he is there willing to do anything just to take me to dinner. The harsh truth is that the reason I am best friends with this guy is because I don't feel sexually attracted to him thus he isn't threatening and I can be myself around him. I know that he lives in a constant dream world where he thinks one day I will be with him. But it's never going to happen, as awful as I feel about it.

 

Wake up to yourself - you have already wasted so much time on this girl and I can guarantee you right now that she will never be with you in a romantic sense. It would have happened already - you need a spark to go out with someone and there clearly is none here, no matter how much you try to force the issue. I think you are probably seen as pathetic by a lot of people the way you live your life for her. You should try to back off a bit and get a life of your own so that you can start being truly happy rather than chasing a dream that will never become reality.

[sami]

Girls sometimes need to be blunt about that. I'm afraid in the process of keeping them as good or best friends some girls give those poor guys confliciting messages so they continue to belive that one day thier dreams will come true. there is a responsibilty on the girls' shoulders to be firm, frank and honest about this. No boy these days is willing to spend time and money on any girl if she is giving him that subtle and hidden hints. So wake up girls and be honest about your feelings. I was one of the poor victims. It took me time and efforts to get out of it.

[emdeesea]

"I'm afraid in the process of keeping them as good or best friends some girls give those poor guys confliciting messages so they continue to belive that one day thier dreams will come true. there is a responsibilty on the girls' shoulders to be firm, frank and honest about this."

 

How much more blunt can you be than "I don't want to go out with you." ?

 

If the girl is not responding, how hard is it to just accept that fact and move on? Why keep sending someone candy and flowers? Desperation is not attractive in men OR women. Pandering does not work. Flattery, as they say, gets you nowhere.

 

If SHE says, "I don't want to date you," she's said all she needs to say. It's up to the guy to grow a backbone, move on and not act like a little, wet puppy dog. No one finds that attractive.

[moimeme]

Every situation has a different dynamic. It would be stupid of someone to just assume that because the other person said 'friends first' that that never changes. The smartest thing to do is ASK. No guessing, second-guessing, or assuming - plain and simple, TALK and COMMUNICATE!!!!! Could be the other person is harbouring similar feelings - or not, but unless you are a mind-reader, you won't know and sticking to others' rules or anecdotes won't help you in your own, unique situation.

 

In this case, the gal has said 'no way' - it can't be any plainer than that. But at least he asked.

[d.stevens]

Originally posted by moimeme

But at least he asked.

 

In this case yes, but looking around at other situations, it shocks me that "they're such good friends" but yet, they don't or can't discuss such things. Why continue going in circles with the games? Be straight up and talk openly about it.

[moimeme]

Oh, because not everybody handles these things well. People do flee these situations - men more so than women. Tell me; if you had a gal pal who confessed she'd fallen for you and you were single and available but not interested that way, would you still be comfortable being her friend only?

[emdeesea]

"People do flee these situations - men more so than women."

 

In such a case I think the men are the smart ones. Women think they can change someone. It's a waste of time to wait for someone to decide whether they like you or not. They may change their mind and they might not.

 

"Tell me; if you had a gal pal who confessed she'd fallen for you and you were single and available but not interested that way, would you still be comfortable being her friend only?"

 

It's not whether or not HE would still be comfortable being her friend; would SHE be comfortable behing HIS friend? Would SHE be comfortable being infatuated with a guy who thinks she's a great girl to hang out and be friends with, but she's not good enough to date? Would SHE be comfortable watching him date other women while he's only friends with her?

 

Heck no. It's in her best interest to remove herself from the situation and find someone who appreciates her. If she wishes to continue the friendship, that's up to her, but personally it's not worth it to me for the most part.

 

Same goes for anyone in this situation. You protect your own interests. A Platonic friendship only works if it's acceptable to both parties involved.